Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PHLBOS]

the US highways had x0 and x1 as the primaries.  it is interstates that used x5.

Actually, US highways used x0, x1 AND x5 as primaries.

[texaskdog]

So I guess 90% of this nations drivers would be up shit creek then.

Yet another brilliant idea.

Today's average driver would be lost if the GPS system went down.  Pretty soon they wont even print maps anymore.

[TheStranger]

10 was given up several years before...

do you know the exact year?  I've seen a 1961 sign with a 42 outline shield.  (next-3-exits sign in the median on 5 northbound.)

I don't know if Mark F.'s site is still up but he had some late 50s maps and I think 1961 probably was the time of the switchover.

My guess as to why 10 was moved way before the other routes (5, 8, 15) - the Santa Monica Freeway was a new-terrain route that only roughly paralleled Route 26/Olympic Boulevard, while the other three were well-represented by existing US routes (101, 99, 395/66/91, 80).

[agentsteel53]

My guess as to why 10 was moved way before the other routes (5, 8, 15) - the Santa Monica Freeway was a new-terrain route that only roughly paralleled Route 26/Olympic Boulevard, while the other three were well-represented by existing US routes (101, 99, 395/66/91, 80).

do we know when the first 35 and 7 shields started going up?  (replacing 5 and 15)

7 was a complex case; when was the 405 routing signed solely as 405?  I know 405 shields were up as early as 1958, but was that cosigned with 7?

I had always thought the main reason CA-10 was dropped so quickly was because I-10 was so closeby and paralleling it.  Only about 8 miles away.

[TheStranger]

My guess as to why 10 was moved way before the other routes (5, 8, 15) - the Santa Monica Freeway was a new-terrain route that only roughly paralleled Route 26/Olympic Boulevard, while the other three were well-represented by existing US routes (101, 99, 395/66/91, 80).

do we know when the first 35 and 7 shields started going up?  (replacing 5 and 15)

I'm not sure at all, though I know both routes are post-1964.  What IS interesting is that the routes chosen for recycling both were corridors that had become interstates (pre-1964 35 -> 605, pre-1964 7 -> 405) and that was true for 26 replacing 8 in Stockton as well.

7 was a complex case; when was the 405 routing signed solely as 405?  I know 405 shields were up as early as 1958, but was that cosigned with 7?

I've always assumed the routes were never co-signed, as unlike say 99/5 (or 101/5), the entirety of post-1942 Route 7 was to be supplanted by 405.

I had always thought the main reason CA-10 was dropped so quickly was because I-10 was so closeby and paralleling it.  Only about 8 miles away.

That makes sense, though 7 was recycled what, a few miles away from the Sepulveda corridor to today's 710?

[NE2]

I don't know if Mark F.'s site is still up but he had some late 50s maps and I think 1961 probably was the time of the switchover.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110514003726/http://members.cox.net/mkpl2/hist/hist.html

[agentsteel53]

the entirety of post-1942 Route 7 was to be supplanted by 405.

post-1942?  I had thought that 7 was truncated first in 1935 (US-395 taking it over from the Oregon line to Brady) and then 1938 (US-6 taking over it from Brady to Sylmar or so where Sepulveda Blvd began).  Is there a third intermediate truncation I am not aware of?

(alternately - when did the 107 designation come into play?  I had thought that was early, like 1935 or so.)

That makes sense, though 7 was recycled what, a few miles away from the Sepulveda corridor to today's 710?

they intersected, even - at or near what is now a 405/710 junction in Long Beach.  though if old 7 was unsigned by 1958, and new 7 started getting signed in 1964, that would have been a long enough interval to leave people unconfused.

the implication is that there were two 15s between 1958-1964 or so.  they are separated by about 50 miles, so that doesn't seem too problematic.

[InterstateNG]

So I guess 90% of this nations drivers would be up shit creek then.

Yet another brilliant idea.

Today's average driver would be lost if the GPS system went down.  Pretty soon they wont even print maps anymore.

10% of cars in this nation are equipped with GPS.  Cell phone coverage is not whole over the country either.

[The High Plains Traveler]

My guess as to why 10 was moved way before the other routes (5, 8, 15) - the Santa Monica Freeway was a new-terrain route that only roughly paralleled Route 26/Olympic Boulevard, while the other three were well-represented by existing US routes (101, 99, 395/66/91, 80).

do we know when the first 35 and 7 shields started going up?  (replacing 5 and 15)

7 was a complex case; when was the 405 routing signed solely as 405?  I know 405 shields were up as early as 1958, but was that cosigned with 7?

I had always thought the main reason CA-10 was dropped so quickly was because I-10 was so closeby and paralleling it.  Only about 8 miles away.

CA-7 and CA-35 (Northern CA) are 1964 changes to 15 and 5, respectively.  Original CA-35 went away at the same time because it was so close to I-605. The CA-10 to CA-42 transition did occur around 1960 due to the proximity of Manchester Avenue and the new Santa Monica Freeway, as you indicate. I have extremely early recollections of the first pieces of the San Diego Freeway in West L.A. being signed as CA-7, but I-405 came very shortly thereafter and the two were never co-signed that I saw.

[Steve]

the US highways had x0 and x1 as the primaries.  it is interstates that used x5.

Actually, US highways used x0, x1 AND x5 as primaries.

Source? By the time you get to the west, the 3-digit routes are just as important as any of the other ones anyway. Come to think of it, except for US 3-9, most of the 2-digit highways are about as important/long as the others regardless of the ending digit, at least north-south.

[NE2]

x5 was a sort of secondary level of primary: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/numbers.cfm
"The principal north-south routes were given numbers ending in 1, with U.S. 1 along the East Coast. The north-south routes of considerable length but secondary importance were given numbers ending in 5."

[TheStranger]

post-1942?  I had thought that 7 was truncated first in 1935 (US-395 taking it over from the Oregon line to Brady) and then 1938 (US-6 taking over it from Brady to Sylmar or so where Sepulveda Blvd began).  Is there a third intermediate truncation I am not aware of?

(alternately - when did the 107 designation come into play?  I had thought that was early, like 1935 or so.)

Earliest I've seen 107 - what I refer to as the "third truncation" - is on a 1942 map.  Haven't seen it any earlier than that.

I get that the Sepulveda-to-Lincoln route at Westchester was way more direct, but why was 107 not only explicitly retained post-1964, but also planned to be freeway on its own?  It seems like 405 supplanted that route as well.

they intersected, even - at or near what is now a 405/710 junction in Long Beach.  though if old 7 was unsigned by 1958, and new 7 started getting signed in 1964, that would have been a long enough interval to leave people unconfused.

the implication is that there were two 15s between 1958-1964 or so.  they are separated by about 50 miles, so that doesn't seem too problematic.

When was 15 first signed in California?  I know it was definitely in existence by 1964 as the California Highways and Public Works editions of that era referred to the northern segment as 15/91/466.

[Greybear]

Grzrd said: "Now, to maybe drift further off-topic, is the interchange in Atlanta among the I-75/I-85 overlap and I-20 the only place in a U.S. city where a total of three x0s and x5s meet in one interchange?  Or, does Dallas rise to the challenge where 30, 35E, and 45 come close together?  In other words, can the Dallas "meeting point" be considered a single interchange?"

The 3 1/2 in Dallas (20, 30, 45, 35E) do not meet in the same location. I-20 is really a southern Bypass of Dallas.  And I-35E and I-45 never meet.

May I remind you that I-20 DOES enter the Dallas city limits and DOES cross both I-35E and I-45? Take that into consideration.

[texaskdog]

So I guess 90% of this nations drivers would be up shit creek then.

Yet another brilliant idea.

Today's average driver would be lost if the GPS system went down.  Pretty soon they wont even print maps anymore.

10% of cars in this nation are equipped with GPS.  Cell phone coverage is not whole over the country either.

That's it??  maybe I hang out with the rich crowd then.

[cabiness42]

Grzrd said: "Now, to maybe drift further off-topic, is the interchange in Atlanta among the I-75/I-85 overlap and I-20 the only place in a U.S. city where a total of three x0s and x5s meet in one interchange?

80/90 has an interchange with 75 in Toledo, OH.
Also, similar to 30/35E and 30/45 in Dallas, the 65/80 and 65/90 interchanges are only a mile apart in Gary, IN.

[hobsini2]

Grzrd said: "Now, to maybe drift further off-topic, is the interchange in Atlanta among the I-75/I-85 overlap and I-20 the only place in a U.S. city where a total of three x0s and x5s meet in one interchange?  Or, does Dallas rise to the challenge where 30, 35E, and 45 come close together?  In other words, can the Dallas "meeting point" be considered a single interchange?"

The 3 1/2 in Dallas (20, 30, 45, 35E) do not meet in the same location. I-20 is really a southern Bypass of Dallas.  And I-35E and I-45 never meet.

May I remind you that I-20 DOES enter the Dallas city limits and DOES cross both I-35E and I-45? Take that into consideration.

I believe though the question was if they all met at the same junction. In the sense no. If it is just a question of if in the city limits, then you are correct Kdog

[sandwalk]

Agreed.  Also, I'm beginning to think that Atlanta is the only city to have a total of three non-suffixed, non-"intrastate interstate" x0s and x5s within its city limits. 

Toledo has I-80, I-90, I-75, I-280, and I-475 through the city limits.

[agentsteel53]

When was 15 first signed in California?  I know it was definitely in existence by 1964 as the California Highways and Public Works editions of that era referred to the northern segment as 15/91/466.

at the 15/40 junction this 1960 sign survives, with the 91 greened out, and the 15 moved over.


sign may indeed be older than 1960.  photo is 1960.

somewhere I have more modern photos.  the 66 and 40 were similarly covered up and moved over, respectively.  that sign got replaced around 2008 to accommodate a retroreflective sign with an exit tab (your tax dollars at work!) but, as of last week, the 15 survives with a big patch covering the 91.

it is a shame because the I-40 shield was the rarely seen 30x27 size, which CA had as a standard from 1958-1962, for two full-width digits (I-40, as opposed to I-15, which was "one and a half" digits).  

as far as I know, the only 30x27 shields which survive are at the MacArthur Maze for I-80.

[Brandon]

So I guess 90% of this nations drivers would be up shit creek then.

Yet another brilliant idea.

Today's average driver would be lost if the GPS system went down.  Pretty soon they wont even print maps anymore.

10% of cars in this nation are equipped with GPS.  Cell phone coverage is not whole over the country either.

That's it??  maybe I hang out with the rich crowd then.

I'm amazed it's actually as much as 10%.  I have a new car (2011 model) that only has bluetooth, no GPS.
As for cell phone coverage, it used to be lacking on the north side the Keweenaw Peninsula (MI) up by Mt Brockway due to the terrain.