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THEY CAN MOVE THE HIGHWAY?!

Started by frank gifford, June 25, 2012, 02:07:15 PM

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frank gifford

This is a theory with three parts.  I'm posting it here rather than sending many individual e-mails.

Several books, booklets and websites agree on the following:
.  Depew OK was on Route 66 from 1926 to 1928.  Concrete pavement which still exists was put in by the city between 1925 and 1927.  But in 1928 the state built a straight-across bypass north of town eliminating the awkward downtown loop and taking Depew off the highway.

Now here's the theory:  Doesn't this make Depew the first incorporated place on Rt 66 to be bypassed?  Not just in Oklahoma, but anywhere.  In view of what later happened to hundreds of towns and cities--that's pretty significant.

The theory has a second part:  Near the west end of Depew is the Gimmel gas station.  The owner confirms it was in business during this era.  The Gimmel building appears to be the earliest surviving gas station to be bypassed anywhere along Rt 66.  (An image is in the Depew gallery on my site: www.rt66pix.com)

The theory has a final part:  Both Depew and the little gas station appear to be the first bypass victims/survivors on ANY numbered American highway.

This must have been like 9/11 when it happened: everything changed.  Suddenly, if you lived by the road...you could die by the road.  You could be bypassed, just like Depew, where the population has been cut by more than half, and where many downtown "buildings" are now roofless facades.

Again, this is a theory--but I can find nothing to disprove all three parts.  An effort to get the Department of Transportation in Washington to confirm it failed.

Some little town and some little gas station WERE first.  1928 is the year to beat.

Frank Gifford at rt66pix@hotmail.com


silverback1065

I just noticed that us 66 is signed on google maps now

agentsteel53

Quote from: silverback1065 on June 25, 2012, 02:14:12 PM
I just noticed that us 66 is signed on google maps now

yes, as "US 30 in Idaho".
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

NE2

Anyway, if there were any bypasses built before 1926 on the state highways that became US 66, it would be silly to ignore them. Changing the signs didn't magically create new motorists who would not have driven the same roads.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

silverback1065

actually if you look now it has the us 66 shield on it now, i wish they'd recommission it altogether

Alps

I can't see how 66 would have gone through Depew - all traces of the old highway have been removed. Which streets were paved in concrete?

Anyway, bypasses existed well before even the 20th century. One example is Paterson Plank Rd. in Rutherford, which bypassed Hoboken Rd. by going around the hill instead of over it. Not having been alive, I don't know if this also bypassed the town or still went through it at that time. Also, and I'm sure this holds true for other states, NJ's original state highway system was a combination of existing roads (improved on the spot) and new alignments. For example, US 46 was built around Fairfield on its current bypass routing as the original NJ 6 alignment. I have this date as 1920 in the log.

realjd

Quote from: frank gifford on June 25, 2012, 02:07:15 PM
This must have been like 9/11 when it happened: everything changed.

I'd hardly compare a small town being bypassed with 9/11.

This does make me wonder though: what was the first American town to be bypassed on any highway? I'd bet that, while Depew was the first on US-66, were there any earlier?

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Chicago, by the Lincoln Highway (1913)
Dayton, by the National Road (1835)
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Scott5114

I'm inclined to agree with Steve. The ODOT Revision History page for US-66, which theoretically should show such a reroute, has no mention of Depew at all. It shows US-66 being designated on Dec. 7, 1926 (likely when the Transportation Commission approved all the original US highway designations in OK) and the first reroute shown is July 7, 1932. That reroute was in Tulsa. The Dept of Hwys maps of the era do show original OK-7, and later US-66, passing through Depew, but those maps were hand-drawn and it was probably impossible to accurately reflect a "near-miss" the highway had on Depew.

It is interesting to see what the first town to be bypassed was, but it probably was not Depew.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bugo

Looking at the ODOT map for Depew, it appears that 66 came in from the west on 1st street, turned south on Ladd Avenue, then east on Main Street, then north on Flynn Avenue, then back to 1st Street.  Google Maps seems to confirm this.

NE2

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 25, 2012, 09:42:10 PM
Chicago, by the Lincoln Highway (1913)
The Lincoln Highway never went through Chicago, and there was no defined cross-country route prior to that. The Lincoln Highway did do a bunch of bypassing early on, however, e.g. Ogden, Utah.

As for Depew, http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/memorial/route66/creek/historical/book-maps/map24.pdf shows it. The original 1926 alignment here was not paved (except in towns).
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Mapmikey

I believe VA 10 (now US 11) bypassed Emory and Meadowview in 1923.


Mapmikey

frank gifford

I posted the original theory.  Conversations on a Yahoo Route 66 e-group have led to two changes in the language to clarify things.  The 1928 bypass may technically skirt the edge of Depew (it did cut off downtown, several blocks away).  And some unpaved roads saw temporary use until 66 was built.

So the wording "first paved downtown on Route 66 to be bypassed" is a better formulation.  It will work in either case.

In the third part of the theory, the language should be "numbered U.S. highway system" rather than "numbered American highway." 

- - - - -

The original concrete through Depew still exists as a U-shape south of the bypass.  It continues to handle traffic through the little downtown after 85 years or so...not a bad investment of tax dollars!  The bypass also remains in use (although moved slightly) and improved over the years.     

US71

Quote from: frank gifford on June 26, 2012, 06:45:17 AM
I posted the original theory.  Conversations on a Yahoo Route 66 e-group have led to two changes in the language to clarify things.  The 1928 bypass may technically skirt the edge of Depew (it did cut off downtown, several blocks away).  And some unpaved roads saw temporary use until 66 was built.

So the wording "first paved downtown on Route 66 to be bypassed" is a better formulation.  It will work in either case.


I am willing to consider "first paved downtown on Route 66 to be bypassed" or maybe Route 66 in Oklahoma.

But in this same window, US 71 was rerouted at Bentonville, AR so it no longer passed through Centerton. But I have not checked other US routes in Arkansas to see if this was the only "major" (if you can call 5 miles "major") reroute in the state.

I think I drove through Depew a few years ago, including part of the old downtown. I don't remember the gas station, though. I'll have to go back and look again sometime.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

frank gifford

Thanks to all who read and responded to the provocative theory, posted two days ago, on the Route 66 bypassing of Depew OK in 1928.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation has now responded as well:

"As far as I can determine, I would agree with you that the first relocation of US 66 that bypassed a town entirely in Oklahoma was the 1928 relocation at Depew."
  --Gary Ray Howell, Transportation Specialist ODOT (e-mail June 27, 2012)

Howell received one of the main credits in the 2001 Jim Ross book Oklahoma Route 66--a primary source for the theory.

Also on June 27, the Town Clerk of Depew, Susie Case, confirmed by phone that the 1928 straight-across state bypass was outside the town limits at the time.  That distinction (relayed to Howell) is important because an entire town, not just a downtown street, was bypassed.  Case added: "That about killed the town."

To date, I have found nothing to undermine the larger theory that Depew was the first such bypass on ALL of Route 66.  The Depew bypass was being used just 25 months after the numbered U.S. highway system was adopted.  The seven remaining DOTs are being contacted about this today by e-mail.

I will not, however, attempt to verify the final "stretch" part of the theory about this being the first such bypass on the entire numbered U.S. highway system.

- - - - -

Unless there's conflicting evidence, I'm going with ODOT.  It all started in Depew in 1928.

The focus point clearly is a well-preserved 1920s building--the only gas station to survive from the era when Main Street was Route 66.  There's now a direct link between that building and the story about The Mother of the Mother Road, Lucille Hamons.  Both fell victim (in different ways) to the same process--bypassing.

And there's no good answer either because, in places like Depew, the road HAD to move eventually.

It seems to me, as an outsider, that Oklahoma's relationship with Route 66 is unique.  It's important elsewhere--but it's intertwined with Oklahoma.  The road nurtures your towns and cities, and when it gets taken away it damn near kills them.

Depew today is largely a facade of building fronts.  The Turnpike entrance is 7-miles away.  The grocery store closed a couple weeks ago.

There was talk of an art colony several years back.  It might be a good place--an hour away from either Oklahoma City or Tulsa.  There's plenty of vacant space.

In the meantime, there will soon be an antique shop.  The owner of that 1920s gas station is about to open one...in that building.

A side note: This began as an effort to write accurate photo captions for my site, www.rt66pix.com.  Depew now has its own gallery with eleven images.  I hope you enjoy them.

I'll post a consolidated update here when DOTs in the other seven states respond.  Or before, if one confirms an earlier bypass.

Frank Gifford at rt66pix@hotmail.com

US71

Quote from: Steve on June 25, 2012, 09:16:47 PM
I can't see how 66 would have gone through Depew - all traces of the old highway have been removed. Which streets were paved in concrete?

I've been through Depew: if you look really closely at the pavement, you can see traces of the old road where it connects to the current roadway. The pavement may go straight, but there are odd curve marks. I've seen that in a lot of other places, too (old US 166 east of Joplin and old US 71 near Saginaw, for example). It's almost like detective work.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

bugo

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Steve. The ODOT Revision History page for US-66, which theoretically should show such a reroute, has no mention of Depew at all. It shows US-66 being designated on Dec. 7, 1926 (likely when the Transportation Commission approved all the original US highway designations in OK) and the first reroute shown is July 7, 1932. That reroute was in Tulsa.

Was this when 66 was taken off Admiral and put on 11th?

bugo

Quote from: US71 on June 26, 2012, 08:47:29 AM
But in this same window, US 71 was rerouted at Bentonville, AR so it no longer passed through Centerton. But I have not checked other US routes in Arkansas to see if this was the only "major" (if you can call 5 miles "major") reroute in the state.

Where did you see that 71 went through Centerton?  The 1926 official map shows it following modern AR 72.  I've never seen any evidence that it went through Centerton.

Scott5114

Quote from: bugo on August 09, 2012, 01:59:36 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2012, 10:05:47 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Steve. The ODOT Revision History page for US-66, which theoretically should show such a reroute, has no mention of Depew at all. It shows US-66 being designated on Dec. 7, 1926 (likely when the Transportation Commission approved all the original US highway designations in OK) and the first reroute shown is July 7, 1932. That reroute was in Tulsa.

Was this when 66 was taken off Admiral and put on 11th?

The designation file just says "Relocation in Tulsa". You could probably examine Tulsa maps of the period or Route 66 publications to find out something more specific.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Road Hog

Towns withering after being bypassed by a major road was not a new phenomenon in the 1920s. The same thing happened to numerous towns in the 1800s with the railroads. The town I live in, for example, was physically picked up and moved three miles east in the 1890s when the railroad came through. Railroads often determined where county seats and centers of commerce were, and if it missed your town, the commerce went elsewhere.

Nowadays, of course, bypasses aren't a problem because of our modern mobility. In fact, bypasses may encourage growth (some might say sprawl) by creating a new corridor for development.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Road Hog on August 09, 2012, 09:26:57 AM
Nowadays, of course, bypasses aren't a problem because of our modern mobility. In fact, bypasses may encourage growth (some might say sprawl) by creating a new corridor for development.

That is correct - if the bypass does not have full access control.  I can immediately think of two bypass highways that were overwhelmed by development because they were not controlled-access highways - Md. 140 in Westminster, Maryland, and an assortment of U.S. highways in Warrenton, Virginia.

On the other hand, the bypass highway around Frederick, Maryland (sections of I-70,I-270, U.S. 40 and U.S. 15) has full access control, and while plenty of development has taken place near the bypass, it has not been reduced to a series of congested signalized intersections by residential and/or commercial development. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

english si

Quote from: Road Hog on August 09, 2012, 09:26:57 AM
Towns withering after being bypassed by a major road was not a new phenomenon in the 1920s. The same thing happened to numerous towns in the 1800s with the railroads. The town I live in, for example, was physically picked up and moved three miles east in the 1890s when the railroad came through.
We had several towns (including mine) that refused to let the railway stop at their town - my town was centred in the bottom of the valley, but then formed two segments, one old at the bottom, one new at the top of the hill by the railway station a mile away - the gap has been plugged now.

Kingston-upon-Thames is the famous example - the London and South Western Railway wanted to stop there on the route out of London - Kingston refused as they felt it would be detrimental to the coaching trade that the town was built on, so the L&SWR built a Kingston station just outside the council boundaries and a 'Kingston-upon-Railway' settlement built up around it (renamed Surbiton). Kingston saw that the railways had killed the coaching trade anyway (which couldn't have been predicted in the 1830s/early 40s when the L&SWR was built), and successfully lobbied to have a branch line go through it in the 1860s. It was the first place in Britain to be bypassed by a dual carriageway in the early 30s. It's still an important hub despite being bypassed by both the railway and the A3.

Certainly towns, and the businesses there, actively want the town to be bypassed by roads, especially now and are NIMBYs when it comes to larger schemes. The exception comes with places that are 100k+, where they want schemes to come along, even if it's a destructive and noisy mega project. Oh, and if it's a rail scheme that requires little construction and will increase frequency and decrease travel times - Kingston requesting a branch of Crossrail that would have used existing tracks but got blocked by Richmond, who would have been on the route as they are just weird.

US71

Quote from: NE2 on August 09, 2012, 07:12:22 AM
Or you could examine the Route 66 publication ODOT has on their site: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/memorial/route66/tulsa/historical/book-maps/map18.pdf
And Depew: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/memorial/route66/creek/historical/book-maps/map24.pdf

Better yet, talk to folks in the Route 66 Yahoo group. Combined, they have more knowledge that you'll find on any map.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast



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