Mile markers every 1/10th of a mile - Yes? No? Sometimes?

[cpzilliacus]

Mile markers are officially called "Reference Location Signs" if they show whole miles, and "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" if they show 1/10 of a mile increments.  If they show a direction and route number, then they are called "Enhanced Reference Location Signs."

VDOT has generally posed "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" along most of its Interstate network in recent years, though not always on expressway-class roads (such as U.S. 50, Arlington Boulevard).

MdTA has long posted "Intermediate Reference Location Signs," though they were nonstandard for many years (and I think some of the nonstandard ones are still around.

Maryland SHA does not usually post the "Intermediate Reference Location Signs," only the "Reference Location Signs," and not always those. 

D.C. sometimes posts them, but often it does not, and usually forgets to maintain them.

In my opinion, all roads with a functional class of freeway or expressway should have the Intermediate Reference Location signs.

Some places, like the entire Woodrow Wilson Bridge and its approaches (and ramps to the approaches) cry out for Enhanced Reference Location Signs, as does the Springfield Interchange.  So do the 14th Street Bridge, the Southeast/Southwest Freeway system, as well as the 11th Street Bridge and its new approaches and ramps.  The Dulles Toll Road (Va. 267) and Dulles Access Road ("secret" Va. 90004) and the part of I-270 with express and local lanes would also benefit from Enhanced Reference Location Signs (though it might be a challenge to put Route 90004 on such a sign).

Your thoughts?

[dfnva]

Mile markers are officially called "Reference Location Signs" if they show whole miles, and "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" if they show 1/10 of a mile increments.  If they show a direction and route number, then they are called "Enhanced Reference Location Signs."

VDOT has generally posed "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" along most of its Interstate network in recent years, though not always on expressway-class roads (such as U.S. 50, Arlington Boulevard).

I never knew the different terminology for these signs until now.

I find that Virginia does a hodepodge of different things across the state. On all of I-81, I-66, interstates in the DC area, and I-95 Caroline County northward, intermediate reference location signs are used. In the VDOT Richmond District, enhanced reference location Signs are used on I-95 and I-64, but not, oddly, in the immediate Richmond metro area. The best oddity is on VA-294/Prince William Pkwy between SR-642/Hoadly Rd and Wellington Rd/Liberia Ave, where kilometer reference location signs are used. They're particularly useless when used only in that section, especially since the PWPkwy was extended west of its former terminus at Wellington Rd/Liberia Ave.

I like the PA small white signs, on every state/US route, which have the route number (stated as SR XXXX) and the mileage multiplied by 10, not sure if they're supposed to function as a reference location sign though.

-Dan

[1995hoo]

I've seen the kilometre posts on the Prince William Parkway and I've always noted how they incorrectly abbreviated the word as "KM" rather than the proper "km"–capitalization matters with SI units. What I thought was odder about them is that a Virginia statute (Va. Code 33.1-190.2) prohibits the use of public funds to "replace" any sign with American units with a sign using metric units or to "convert" the units on any sign from American units to metric units. Because of that statute I've always wondered who posted the kilometre-posts. I suppose the statute leaves a bit of a loophole in that its plain meaning does not prohibit any brand-new sign from using SI units.

The reference signs on either side of the Wilson Bridge, and some of the ones in the Springfield Interchange, are especially elaborate; for example, the ones near the Wilson Bridge include references like "OL-L" ("Outer Loop–Local") to help pinpoint the location. Yesterday when I took the ramp from the Outer Loop to I-295 I noted how those markers go a step further and add something to denote that it's that particular ramp (something like "OL-L [line break] I-295," though the precise wording escapes me just now). In a complex area like that, especially one known for historically having a lot of accidents, it makes a lot of sense to add that level of precision.

[PHLBOS]

Massachusetts used to show their 1/10th mile markers with a small grey or yellow diamond that had the mile number placed above the 1/10th.

The first time I encountered a 1/10th mile marker sign that resembled the MUTCD whole mile marker was in Delaware during the early 90s; DelDOT may have doing that longer but I wasn't driving through the Diamond State during the 1980s.

[Alps]

NJ posts every 0.5 on major routes (US 46, NJ 17). Freeways usually get every 0.1, but in no case are they too-well maintained. Parkway and Turnpike maintain theirs. All are the small 2' style with 4" numbers no one can read.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Lately, VDOT and a few localities have been posting mileposts every 1/5 of a mile (that is, mile 0, mile 0.2, mile 0.4, etc). Mileposts installed on VA 76 (both the RMA section and the VDOT-maintained section) and I-195/VA 195 are in 0.2 mile increments.

[amroad17]

I could see having them every tenth of a mile in the more urban areas of a city, such as Cincinnati.  As one would move further into the suburbs, I could see them used every 2/10ths of a mile like Lexington, KY does.  Turnpikes and toll roads should have them every 1/10th of a mile.  Blue or green signs--doesn't matter to me as long as they are there in case I ever break down and need assistance.

[1995hoo]

Lately, VDOT and a few localities have been posting mileposts every 1/5 of a mile (that is, mile 0, mile 0.2, mile 0.4, etc). Mileposts installed on VA 76 (both the RMA section and the VDOT-maintained section) and I-195/VA 195 are in 0.2 mile increments.

IIRC, don't a fair number of those include a shield as well? I don't remember where on the way south on I-95 it appears, but it was noticeable enough that my wife (who TOLERATES my roadgeek rants) even noticed them unprompted.

[Takumi]

^ On I-95 the shields appear south of milepost 50, appearing every 1/5 mile. I'm not sure how far south they go as the last time I went to NC on 95 it was raining so hard I couldn't pay attention to that.

[Brandon]

I think 1/10th of a mile is a bit much.  ISTHA (Illinois) used to use 1/2 mile ones, but now uses 1/4 mile markers instead across the entire system.  IDOT has a hodge podge of forms.  Some at the 1/2 mile, some every 1/5 mile, and the classic ones on the light poles at random intervals done up as:

MILE
2
5
7
--
56

with the "56" being the hundredths of a mile.

[Beltway]

I think 1/10th of a mile is a bit much.  ISTHA (Illinois) used to use 1/2 mile ones, but now uses 1/4 mile markers instead across the entire system.  IDOT has a hodge podge of forms.  Some at the 1/2 mile, some every 1/5 mile, and the classic ones on the light poles at random intervals done up as:

1/10 mile is 528 feet, which is about right on a human scale for walking or observing from a stationary point.  As in someone from a disabled vehicle or someone at an accident scene, who wanted easy access to milepost data.

2/10 mile is 1,056 feet, not really on a human scale for the above.  It could take a long walk, to see the data.

[vdeane]

Here's what I know of for NY:
-Region 1: mostly everywhere, with the exception of I-87 north of either Albany or Saratoga County and I-88
-Region 2: no mile markers of any kind
-Region 3: parts of I-690, NY 481, all of NY 695, and the I-81 frontage roads near the airport; could be a prelude to region-wide rollout
-Region 4: the only NYSDOT region that has tenth mile markers everywhere
-Region 5: every interstate except I-86
-Region 6: mile markers only
-Region 7: mile markers only
-Region 8: sporadically posted on NY 17; all of I-84 thanks to NYSTA
-Region 9: mile markers only
-Region 10: ?
-Region 11: ?
-Thruway: posted everywhere; turnarounds posted to hundredths of a mile too!

[kphoger]

I think all rural highways (anything with a numbered shield) should have at least half-mile markers (or, preferably, kilometer markers), and urban freeways should have at least quarter-mile markers.

[Brandon]

I think 1/10th of a mile is a bit much.  ISTHA (Illinois) used to use 1/2 mile ones, but now uses 1/4 mile markers instead across the entire system.  IDOT has a hodge podge of forms.  Some at the 1/2 mile, some every 1/5 mile, and the classic ones on the light poles at random intervals done up as:

1/10 mile is 528 feet, which is about right on a human scale for walking or observing from a stationary point.  As in someone from a disabled vehicle or someone at an accident scene, who wanted easy access to milepost data.

2/10 mile is 1,056 feet, not really on a human scale for the above.  It could take a long walk, to see the data.

I look at it this way.  1/10 of a mile is less than one block, and 1/4 is two blocks.  The way ISTHA does it, the numbers are large enough to read, and they put them on both sides of the carriageway, in both directions.  They're easy enough to see from one block away.

[qguy]

Of course, the big question now is: If a freeway has 1/10 mile markers which show direction and route number, are they called "enhanced intermediate reference location signs" or "intermediate enhanced reference location signs?" 

[Beltway]

1/10 mile is 528 feet, which is about right on a human scale for walking or observing from a stationary point.  As in someone from a disabled vehicle or someone at an accident scene, who wanted easy access to milepost data.

2/10 mile is 1,056 feet, not really on a human scale for the above.  It could take a long walk, to see the data.

I look at it this way.  1/10 of a mile is less than one block, and 1/4 is two blocks.  The way ISTHA does it, the numbers are large enough to read, and they put them on both sides of the carriageway, in both directions.  They're easy enough to see from one block away.

I have 20/20 vision, and I can read the reference sign at 1/10 mile, but 2/10 mile is much too far to read.  Depending in the amount of curvature of the highway, it might not visible at all 2/10 mile away (1,056 feet).

The money spent for 1/10 mile signs is well-spent, IMHO.

[cpzilliacus]

1/10 mile is 528 feet, which is about right on a human scale for walking or observing from a stationary point.  As in someone from a disabled vehicle or someone at an accident scene, who wanted easy access to milepost data.

2/10 mile is 1,056 feet, not really on a human scale for the above.  It could take a long walk, to see the data.

I look at it this way.  1/10 of a mile is less than one block, and 1/4 is two blocks.  The way ISTHA does it, the numbers are large enough to read, and they put them on both sides of the carriageway, in both directions.  They're easy enough to see from one block away.

I have 20/20 vision, and I can read the reference sign at 1/10 mile, but 2/10 mile is much too far to read.  Depending in the amount of curvature of the highway, it might not visible at all 2/10 mile away (1,056 feet).

The money spent for 1/10 mile signs is well-spent, IMHO.

I strongly agree. 

Unlike most (all?) members of this forum, there are people that have a hard time figuring out where they are, even if they know how to use a cell phone, and a sign every 1/10th of a mile is a big help to police and 911 call takers, and ultimately to users of the highway network.

[cpzilliacus]

Of course, the big question now is: If a freeway has 1/10 mile markers which show direction and route number, are they called "enhanced intermediate reference location signs" or "intermediate enhanced reference location signs?" 

Dunno. 

I think 1/10th of a mile is a bit much.  ISTHA (Illinois) used to use 1/2 mile ones, but now uses 1/4 mile markers instead across the entire system.  IDOT has a hodge podge of forms.  Some at the 1/2 mile, some every 1/5 mile, and the classic ones on the light poles at random intervals done up as:

1/10 mile is 528 feet, which is about right on a human scale for walking or observing from a stationary point.  As in someone from a disabled vehicle or someone at an accident scene, who wanted easy access to milepost data.

2/10 mile is 1,056 feet, not really on a human scale for the above.  It could take a long walk, to see the data.

And having them every 1/10 of a mile is also good in terms of redundancy, for these markers do get knocked-down sometimes.

[Beltway]

I have 20/20 vision, and I can read the reference sign at 1/10 mile, but 2/10 mile is much too far to read.  Depending in the amount of curvature of the highway, it might not visible at all 2/10 mile away (1,056 feet).

The money spent for 1/10 mile signs is well-spent, IMHO.

I strongly agree. 

Unlike most (all?) members of this forum, there are people that have a hard time figuring out where they are, even if they know how to use a cell phone, and a sign every 1/10th of a mile is a big help to police and 911 call takers, and ultimately to users of the highway network.

We're only talking about a few hundred dollars per sign to install these.  The cost per mile of Interstate highway is minute compared to the cost of building the highway and of maintaining the pavement and bridges.

[cpzilliacus]

Mile markers are officially called "Reference Location Signs" if they show whole miles, and "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" if they show 1/10 of a mile increments.  If they show a direction and route number, then they are called "Enhanced Reference Location Signs."

VDOT has generally posed "Intermediate Reference Location Signs" along most of its Interstate network in recent years, though not always on expressway-class roads (such as U.S. 50, Arlington Boulevard).

I never knew the different terminology for these signs until now.

See the Maryland MUTCD Supplement, Chapter 2H (Adobe Acrobat .pdf, 152Kb) for examples and discussion.

[1995hoo]

Of course, the big question now is: If a freeway has 1/10 mile markers which show direction and route number, are they called "enhanced intermediate reference location signs" or "intermediate enhanced reference location signs?" 

Yes.

[cpzilliacus]

^ On I-95 the shields appear south of milepost 50, appearing every 1/5 mile. I'm not sure how far south they go as the last time I went to NC on 95 it was raining so hard I couldn't pay attention to that.

I was last down that way about a year ago, and the Intermediate Reference Location Signs (every 1/10th of a mile), without the route number were posted all the way to the N.C. border.

[1995hoo]

^ On I-95 the shields appear south of milepost 50, appearing every 1/5 mile. I'm not sure how far south they go as the last time I went to NC on 95 it was raining so hard I couldn't pay attention to that.

I was last down that way about a year ago, and the Intermediate Reference Location Signs (every 1/10th of a mile), without the route number were posted all the way to the N.C. border.

I'm pretty sure I recall from our last trip that way (last December, southbound en route to Florida) seeing some of the markers with shields somewhere on the segment between roughly Thornburg and I-295. We passed through that area on July 1 when we were coming northbound but we took US-1 due to the traffic, so I wasn't able to confirm. I may be making multiple business trips to Richmond in the next few weeks and I'll try to keep my eyes open if I do, depending on traffic/weather.

[Special K]

Iowa will use the intermediate reference markers in urban areas.  In addition to that, each 1/20th mile delineator wil have its milepoint marked on it so there is always a location reference within 132 feet along Interstate and Primary highways.

[cpzilliacus]

^ On I-95 the shields appear south of milepost 50, appearing every 1/5 mile. I'm not sure how far south they go as the last time I went to NC on 95 it was raining so hard I couldn't pay attention to that.

I was last down that way about a year ago, and the Intermediate Reference Location Signs (every 1/10th of a mile), without the route number were posted all the way to the N.C. border.

I'm pretty sure I recall from our last trip that way (last December, southbound en route to Florida) seeing some of the markers with shields somewhere on the segment between roughly Thornburg and I-295. We passed through that area on July 1 when we were coming northbound but we took US-1 due to the traffic, so I wasn't able to confirm. I may be making multiple business trips to Richmond in the next few weeks and I'll try to keep my eyes open if I do, depending on traffic/weather.

I think that the I-95 milemarker signs have shields through metropolitan Richmond (Hanover, Henrico and Chesterfield Counties and the City of Richmond).  GSV example here.

But not I-295.