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Author Topic: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95  (Read 7481 times)

Mapmikey

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NE2

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 08:39:36 PM »

Interestingly, this is what the local MPO originally proposed, before changing their preference to I-44: http://people.duke.edu/~rmalme/ncfutintp.html

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 09:35:43 PM »

Is North Carolina going to make every little stretch of freeway into an interstate?  If I were in charge of AASHTO I would ban NC from making any changes for 5 years.
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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 09:54:00 PM »

I-495.. NCDOT seems to be really serious about making this stretch a interstate. I wouldn't want it to be I-495. It should be I-46.
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NJRoadfan

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 09:54:55 PM »

That freeway isn't quite interstate standard around Nashville. The shoulders are kind of skimpy among other things. That section of freeway looks like it dates back to the 50s-60s, I wonder if they plan on upgrading it.
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Strider

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 09:56:35 PM »

They probably will have to if they are serious about making that stretch a interstate spur... :no:
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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 11:22:35 PM »

Is North Carolina going to make every little stretch of freeway into an interstate?  If I were in charge of AASHTO I would ban NC from making any changes for 5 years.


Funny you bring this up, as a 30 year and counting resident of NC I felt for the longest time that this state didn't have enough interstate spurs. I'm thinking of the days (1980s, early 1990s before I-73/74 were thought of) when the only "main" interstate routes were 77, 95, 85, 40, and 26, with I-277 in Charlotte and I-440 in Raleigh the only spurs of note!

I-495 is debatable, I am kind of fond of I-285 happening for my hometown of Winston-Salem, and 73/74 are making huge advancements this year.

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40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC FUT), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), *295(VA), *526(SC)  *new

hbelkins

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 12:23:45 PM »

I-97 notwithstanding, isn't that really too short of a route to be a 2di?
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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 12:35:35 PM »

other than 73/74, I don't think any of NC's interstates are all that absurd in numbering.

73 isn't bad a number... it's only 74 that's really gone AWOL from Cincy.
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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 01:12:39 PM »

Unlike others (namely I-795), this one makes some modicum of sense.  Given the high unlikelihood of US 1 ever being upgraded to freeway north of Raleigh, this provides an Interstate connection to/from points north on I-95 to Raleigh...a function similarly covered by I-40 for points south.

True, the shoulders may not be full-Interstate grade, but NCDOT would have to remedy that before they could sign it as I-495.  As for the Nashville bypass, the original part of the bypass dates to 1963.  It was originally a Super-2...I'm not sure when it was 4-laned, presumably sometime in the mid to late 70s when much of today's freeway between Eagle Rock and I-95 was built.

Since nothing has come through AASHTO's special committee on route numbering as of yet, I presume NCDOT is planning on submitting this to AASHTO and FHWA in the not-too-distant future.

It should also be noted that, if this were to go through, it would theoretically enable NCDOT to renumber I-540 to I-640 as it would then connect to two Interstate routes.  Bob Malme suggests as much on his NC Interstate page that SPUI linked to.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 03:23:50 PM »

Unlike others (namely I-795), this one makes some modicum of sense.  Given the high unlikelihood of US 1 ever being upgraded to freeway north of Raleigh, this provides an Interstate connection to/from points north on I-95 to Raleigh...a function similarly covered by I-40 for points south.

I strongly agree.  This makes for a very logical connection to Raleigh and I-440.  I think it's a better way to go than I-85 via Durham, or I-85 to U.S. 1.

True, the shoulders may not be full-Interstate grade, but NCDOT would have to remedy that before they could sign it as I-495.  As for the Nashville bypass, the original part of the bypass dates to 1963.  It was originally a Super-2...I'm not sure when it was 4-laned, presumably sometime in the mid to late 70s when much of today's freeway between Eagle Rock and I-95 was built.

I've driven it, and it sure comes pretty close to having the "look and feel" of an Interstate.  One could argue that those grassy  shoulders, as long as they are not too "soft" and free of tree limbs, are better for the environment, since they will absorb stormwater runoff into the ground.  And there are "hollow" pavers that can be installed which provide a "hard" shoulder while still allowing most of the stormwater to be absorbed into the earth (though I suspect the cost of installing them on a segment of highway this long would probably be  prohibitive).

Since nothing has come through AASHTO's special committee on route numbering as of yet, I presume NCDOT is planning on submitting this to AASHTO and FHWA in the not-too-distant future.

It should also be noted that, if this were to go through, it would theoretically enable NCDOT to renumber I-540 to I-640 as it would then connect to two Interstate routes.  Bob Malme suggests as much on his NC Interstate page that SPUI linked to.

N.C. 540 would become N.C. 640 as well?
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Rover_0

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2013, 03:38:00 PM »

I'd rather see a 2di, as short as it is. What about extending such an Interstate designation along US-64 to Williamston or even Columbia with upgrades?
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Mapmikey

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2013, 03:51:10 PM »

I'd rather see a 2di, as short as it is. What about extending such an Interstate designation along US-64 to Williamston or even Columbia with upgrades?

Upgrading US 64 between Williamston and Plymouth would require an entirely new roadway unless you want to remove numerous homes as existing US 64 in this location has dozens and dozens of driveway accesses.   The 4-laning of US 64 took away much property from these homes' front yards and there isn't room to add frontage roads adjacent to the main alignment.  Due to swamps/Roanoke River and the railroad, it wouldn't be possible for a lot of this stretch to put parallel roads behind the houses either.

I'm not sure under current guidelines if Williamston qualifies as big enough to be the end point of an interstate.

Greenville on the other hand is at least the equivalent of Goldsboro, so when somebody puts in for US 264 to be an interstate they can do that...

If US 1 south of Raleigh ever became freeway all the way to Rockingham the I-495/US 1 could be a 2di or I-495 could form one great big loop using I-73 to get back to I-95 south of Dillon.

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froggie

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2013, 05:09:22 PM »

Quote
I'm not sure under current guidelines if Williamston qualifies as big enough to be the end point of an interstate.

The town itself would not, but since US 17 is both on the NHS and is a STRAHNET route, the northern junction with US 13/US 17 could serve as an Interstate termini point.
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WashuOtaku

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2013, 06:26:45 PM »

N.C. 540 would become N.C. 640 as well?

The idea would be that Interstate 540 would change number to Interstate 640 once it reconnects with Interstate 40 (or another 2-di Interstate); I doubt they will renumber it if a 3-di Interstate connects since we have Future I-785 overlapping Future I-840 around Greensboro.

Also, I don't think the number will change anytime soon since that section south of US 64/264 will eventually be part of Toll NC 540, thus the interstate will not reconnect. 

And for the sake of argument they did change I-540 --> I-640; it's highly unlikely they would do same with NC 540 since it is identified as a Toll Road.
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Strider

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 12:36:55 AM »

No, NC 540 will remain as it is.. since it's a toll road. Changing it to NC 640 would increase confusion.

I have the feeling that the signage would say "I-640 East/NC 540 West" if you're coming down to Raleigh on I-40, with a bunch of "To" routes such as To US 70, US 64, US 1, I-495, etc.

At least it will free up I-540 for other uses should it happens.
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NE2

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2013, 12:39:56 AM »

At least it will free up I-540 for other uses should it happens.
...which would increase confusion if it's not a continuation of NC 540.

Not that there's a shortage of I-x40 numbers or anything...

OracleUsr

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2013, 12:46:58 AM »

No, NC 540 will remain as it is.. since it's a toll road. Changing it to NC 640 would increase confusion.

I have the feeling that the signage would say "I-640 East/NC 540 West" if you're coming down to Raleigh on I-40, with a bunch of "To" routes such as To US 70, US 64, US 1, I-495, etc.

At least it will free up I-540 for other uses should it happens.

That eastbound Advance Guide Sign for I-540 (Exit 283) is big enough as it is.
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Strider

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2013, 12:47:52 AM »

At least it will free up I-540 for other uses should it happens.
...which would increase confusion if it's not a continuation of NC 540.

Not that there's a shortage of I-x40 numbers or anything...


Who knows.. they might just keep I-540. We can't predict what NCDOT would do.. so I guess it's a waiting game.
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bob7374

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2013, 02:29:55 PM »

At least it will free up I-540 for other uses should it happens.
...which would increase confusion if it's not a continuation of NC 540.

Not that there's a shortage of I-x40 numbers or anything...


Who knows.. they might just keep I-540. We can't predict what NCDOT would do.. so I guess it's a waiting game.
And probably waiting a while at that. The benefit I saw for the change to I-640 was that it helped differentiate the free from the toll portions of the Outer Loop two ways, shield and numerical wise. If directions are to follow x route to 540, one need not have to ask whether they mean I-540 or NC 540. I suspect things will stay as they are though.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 08:08:12 PM »

In my mind, this should be part of an I-42 (or 46 or 48 or whatever's available in the grid that will pacify the state highway crybabies) between Raleigh and Norfolk.  But at any rate, it's a perfectly worthwhile interstate.

I kind of like now NC has been the nation's go-getter when it comes to interstates.  I mean I-74 is dumb, and I'm not totally jacked about I-73, but the rest of there interstating has been fine by me.

At the risk of derailing the thread (since it was mentioned), I-540 and NC 540 should both be immediately turned into I-640, like they should've been originally.  The 540 thing was dumb; the belt was under construction, for crying out and it'll hook up eventually, so fudge it!  And don't get me started on this "no new interstates on tollways" bullshit.  What a crock.  There is no good reason for that "rule".
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jcarte29

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 08:47:46 PM »

In my mind, this should be part of an I-42 (or 46 or 48 or whatever's available in the grid that will pacify the state highway crybabies) between Raleigh and Norfolk.  But at any rate, it's a perfectly worthwhile interstate.

I kind of like now NC has been the nation's go-getter when it comes to interstates.  I mean I-74 is dumb, and I'm not totally jacked about I-73, but the rest of there interstating has been fine by me.

At the risk of derailing the thread (since it was mentioned), I-540 and NC 540 should both be immediately turned into I-640, like they should've been originally.  The 540 thing was dumb; the belt was under construction, for crying out and it'll hook up eventually, so fudge it!  And don't get me started on this "no new interstates on tollways" bullshit.  What a crock.  There is no good reason for that "rule".

Go get 'em. LOL. Jokin aside, I agree.

Raleigh would have to make it confusin as you know what.
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
-------------------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC FUT), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), *295(VA), *526(SC)  *new

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 10:36:21 PM »

At the risk of derailing the thread (since it was mentioned), I-540 and NC 540 should both be immediately turned into I-640, like they should've been originally.  The 540 thing was dumb; the belt was under construction, for crying out and it'll hook up eventually, so fudge it!  And don't get me started on this "no new interstates on tollways" bullshit.  What a crock.  There is no good reason for that "rule".


THANK YOU!! :)
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Rover_0

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 12:04:53 AM »

In my mind, this should be part of an I-42 (or 46 or 48 or whatever's available in the grid that will pacify the state highway crybabies) between Raleigh and Norfolk.  But at any rate, it's a perfectly worthwhile interstate.

I kind of like now NC has been the nation's go-getter when it comes to interstates.  I mean I-74 is dumb, and I'm not totally jacked about I-73, but the rest of there interstating has been fine by me.

I feel the same way. While it might be a little more proactive than my tastes, I like the idea of proactive expansion.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 01:53:25 PM by Rover_0 »
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CanesFan27

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Re: NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2013, 01:41:37 PM »

64 is only at Interstate standards along the Knightdale Bypass.  As froggie and someone else mentioned, the Nashville bypass is the oldest segment and would need noteworth improvements (shoulders, bridges that would need to be widened and maybe some median work, similar to US 220 in Asheboro).  For the rest of the highway from Wendell Blvd. (Business US 64) to I-95 the shoulders would be the biggest need of improvement.   Maybe some ramp lengthening.  Signage improvement is really not that big of a deal.

Interstate designation could also lead to funding for the widening of 64/264 from the end of the Knightdale Bypass to the US 64/264 split in Zebulon.

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