Will Sunpass work on EZPass lanes in Virginia and Maryland?

[norahs]

Hello everybody.. I am a former resident of northern Virginia and now a resident of central Florida.  I've researched my question but still can't find the answer as it stands today.  I have a Sunpass which is interchangeable with EZPass all through Florida.  I also often travel to northern VA which now has toll lanes on the Beltway and probably soon everywhere else, and I also cross Bay Bridge to the eastern shore beaches pretty often.  So before that I ass-u-me that Sunpass and EZPass are interchangeable outside of Florida... will my Sunpass work in EZPass lanes in Virginia and Maryland?

[cpzilliacus]

Hello everybody.. I am a former resident of northern Virginia and now a resident of central Florida.  I've researched my question but still can't find the answer as it stands today.  I have a Sunpass which is interchangeable with EZPass all through Florida.  I also often travel to northern VA which now has toll lanes on the Beltway and probably soon everywhere else, and I also cross Bay Bridge to the eastern shore beaches pretty often.  So before that I ass-u-me that Sunpass and EZPass are interchangeable outside of Florida... will my Sunpass work in EZPass lanes in Virginia and Maryland?

As I understand it, E-ZPass and SunPass are working on interoperability, but are not yet there.   

Regarding E-ZPass, I am not aware of any E-ZPass transponder that is accepted in any state to the south of North Carolina (see map here).

[mtantillo]

SunPass and E-Pass (Orlando area) are interoperable.  LeeWay in Lee County is also part of that interoperability.  Any one of those three transponders will work in any SunPass, E-Pass, or LeeWay lane in Florida.  But they will not work out of Florida.

Don't confuse Orlando's E-Pass with the NE/Midwest's E-ZPass.  They are not the same thing. 

E-ZPasses are different depending on what state you get your tag from.  Not all E-ZPasses are created equal, especially in terms of monthly fees, cost of transponders, and causual use toll discounts.  Generally each state issues their own tags through a state customer service center, and only one toll agency still maintains its own customer service center: the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission still issues their own tags separate from PA Turnpike E-ZPass and New Jersey E-ZPass.  All E-ZPass tags are interoperable across the 14 "pure" E-ZPass states (all E-ZPass states except NC), and as of last fall, all but one of those states calls their tags "E-ZPass"...Illinois still brands their tags I-Pass, but it is fully interoperable with E-ZPass.  And when we say interoperable, we mean "accepted as a valid form of payment"...in many states, causual user toll discounts are only given to those with an E-ZPass tag from that state.  E-ZPass tags from other states are accepted at the full posted cash toll rate.  Other states are nicer and give discounts to anyone with an E-ZPass, regardless of where it is issued. 

North Carolina is a special case.  Their toll system is called NC QuickPass, and it has partial interoperability with E-ZPass.  All E-ZPass tags (and I-Pass tags from IL) are accepted in NC.  But only some NC QuickPass tags are accepted in E-ZPass toll lanes.  Other (the cheaper, sticker tags) are only accepted in NC. 

As was mentioned, E-ZPass and SunPass are working on an interoperability agreement.  But I wouldn't think of it is "A SunPass is also an E-ZPass" with full interoperability.  Most likely it will be more like "A SunPass will be accepted as a valid form of payment at certain E-ZPass facilities, but not others".  This is far more likely.  And it should also be noted that initial interoperability will likely be license plate based, meaning you'll pay with your SunPass ACCOUNT, not with your SunPass TAG.  So as long as your license plate is properly listed on your SunPass account, those E-ZPass facilities with the ability to process video tolls will video toll you, whether or not you actually have your SunPass tag in your car. If you do noy have your license plate listed, you'll be processed as a violator, even if you have the tag mounted on your windshield.  And at those E-ZPass facilities that don't have the capability to do video tolls, the SunPass will not be accepted and you will have to pay cash. 

The same scenario appies in reverse...E-ZPass will likely be accepted in "SunPass Only" lanes, but if there is a gated lane, you'll have to pay cash. 

[cpzilliacus]

And it should also be noted that initial interoperability will likely be license plate based, meaning you'll pay with your SunPass ACCOUNT, not with your SunPass TAG.  So as long as your license plate is properly listed on your SunPass account, those E-ZPass facilities with the ability to process video tolls will video toll you, whether or not you actually have your SunPass tag in your car. If you do noy have your license plate listed, you'll be processed as a violator, even if you have the tag mounted on your windshield.  And at those E-ZPass facilities that don't have the capability to do video tolls, the SunPass will not be accepted and you will have to pay cash.

This is my understanding of how interoperability will work, at least for starters.

Bottom line, when SunPass/E-ZPass interoperability is announced, you must have your correct state of registration and license plate number or numbers associated with your account online.

Getting technical, apparently E-ZPass states could add the hardware to their existing toll lane readers to accept some form of the SunPass transponder, but there is no agreement (at least not yet) to do that.

But given the amount of traffic betwen SunPass territory and E-ZPass territory, that's a possibility (though does it make financial sense for states at the north end of E-ZPass land (such as New Hampshire and Maine) to spend money to accept SunPass?).  I see a lot of vehicles with Florida registration plates in Maryland and Virginia, but some of those belong to military families that are stationed at one of the several bases in these states.

[norahs]

Thanks everyone... so now I won't go through any toll areas outside of Fla. and just hope I don't have a brain lapse up north and accidentally fly through without thinking.  The map is very useful and I hope they keep it updated.  Why does this all have to be so confusing.. more stuff to have to remember.  I know Florida is working on changing their default license plate design to make it easier to read by the cameras, and thus eliminating the jobs of the toll collectors.  They should just phase out the whole Sunpass thing and make it all EZPass..

[cpzilliacus]

Thanks everyone... so now I won't go through any toll areas outside of Fla. and just hope I don't have a brain lapse up north and accidentally fly through without thinking.  The map is very useful and I hope they keep it updated.  Why does this all have to be so confusing.. more stuff to have to remember.  I know Florida is working on changing their default license plate design to make it easier to read by the cameras, and thus eliminating the jobs of the toll collectors.  They should just phase out the whole Sunpass thing and make it all EZPass..

Or you could get an E-ZPass transponder to use while you are in E-ZPass territory.  You can get one at any Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration branch office, and at most Maryland Transportation Authority crossings (Bay Bridge, Fort McHenry Tunnel, but not Md. 200 (ICC)) and certain retailers (details here).  In Virginia, you can get one at several retail outlets (details here).

[NE2]

E-ZPass and E-Pass (Orlando) began in 1993 and 1994, respectively. Back then ETC was in its infancy and there was little thought to interoperability.

[mtantillo]

Thanks everyone… so now I won't go through any toll areas outside of Fla. and just hope I don't have a brain lapse up north and accidentally fly through without thinking.  The map is very useful and I hope they keep it updated.  Why does this all have to be so confusing.. more stuff to have to remember.  I know Florida is working on changing their default license plate design to make it easier to read by the cameras, and thus eliminating the jobs of the toll collectors.  They should just phase out the whole Sunpass thing and make it all EZPass..

Or you could get an E-ZPass transponder to use while you are in E-ZPass territory.  You can get one at any Maryland Motor Vehicle Administration branch office, and at most Maryland Transportation Authority crossings (Bay Bridge, Fort McHenry Tunnel, but not Md. 200 (ICC)) and certain retailers (details here).  In Virginia, you can get one at several retail outlets (details here).

Or you could sign up for an E-ZPass from Massachusetts.  That might be your best bet, since it is one of the only places left where you can still get a free transponder and not have a monthly maintenance fee (important for infrequent travelers). 

[1995hoo]

Thanks everyone... so now I won't go through any toll areas outside of Fla. and just hope I don't have a brain lapse up north and accidentally fly through without thinking.  The map is very useful and I hope they keep it updated.  Why does this all have to be so confusing.. more stuff to have to remember.  I know Florida is working on changing their default license plate design to make it easier to read by the cameras, and thus eliminating the jobs of the toll collectors.  They should just phase out the whole Sunpass thing and make it all EZPass..

Depending on where you plan to be driving, avoiding that "brain lapse" can be more important than you might realize. Some E-ZPass facilities still maintain the toll-machine arms in the E-ZPass Only lanes that were converted from machine-style exact-change lanes, meaning you have to slow almost to a complete stop until your E-ZPass registers and the arm goes up. The Dulles Greenway in Virginia, for example, uses that style because the space they were allowed to have for the toll plaza is limited, so they want to maintain maximum flexibility to change whether a given lane is full-service, exact change, or E-ZPass Only.

I don't travel to New York as often as I used to, so I don't know whether this statement is still accurate, but I recall pretty much all of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority facilities continued to use the arms (presumably to try to prevent toll cheats from speeding through).

In either case, a SunPass will not trigger the arm to go up and you will have a lot of very enraged drivers behind you if you mistakenly enter one of those lanes.

[mc78andrew]

Well the joke is on me.  This convo caused me to research wether I was getting the discounted ez pass rates at the MTA bridges.  I have had an ez pass for almost 10 years from the PA turnpike.

I used to live in PA.  Then I lived in NJ where I would commute to work via the tappan zee bridge.   I still get the 25 cent discount there making the toll 4.75 so I just assumed the mta bridges would be the same.  NOPE!  I have been paying the full jack each time I go to manhattan, which is like once a week.  I pay 10 bucks round trip at the Henry Hudson and 15 bucks round trip at the triboro instead a of 4.88 and 10.66, respectively.

I am really pissed I didn't check this sooner.  For 2 years I have been letting the mta rob me.  Looks like I am getting the panynj discounts when I use the GWB.  I guess I should check my account more often rather than just seeing the 70 bucks replenishment on my Amex and making assumptions. This cost me over 500 dollars.  Son of a €Â£*^%.

[Duke87]

Regarding E-ZPass, I am not aware of any E-ZPass transponder that is accepted in any state to the south of North Carolina (see map here).

Dear god that map is horrible. Looks like someone opened up MS Paint and scribbled the red lines in. And without actually paying enough attention to keep them geographically accurate - look at how Alligator Alley and the Illinois Tollways are rendered. WTF?

[cpzilliacus]

Regarding E-ZPass, I am not aware of any E-ZPass transponder that is accepted in any state to the south of North Carolina (see map here).

Dear god that map is horrible. Looks like someone opened up MS Paint and scribbled the red lines in. And without actually paying enough attention to keep them geographically accurate - look at how Alligator Alley and the Illinois Tollways are rendered. WTF?

Agreed.  Though it has the state outlines right, and that is what matters most.  The Dulles Toll Road/Dulles Greenway corridor is totally wrong, the InterCounty Connector is not there at all.

It also looks like large parts of Suffolk and Chesapeake, Va. are under water.

And the Tri-Ex is also missing, even though North Carolina is colored purple.

[norahs]

That's pretty awful, mc78andrew..
Yea, that map isn't exactly elegant but it's good enough, the simpler the better.. if they keep it up to date.  It's just becoming a pain in the neck keeping up with it all as more and more states start putting tolls on interstates.  A long time ago they made Bay Bridge a toll bridge and were supposed to do away with the toll after the bridge was paid for.  Fat chance.  What needs to happen is that the entire United States needs to come up with ONE system to handle all tolls as long as they are working on the license plate id, etc, and they can dole it out to each state as they see fit.  It's a cluster right now, and a good time to start straightening the whole mess out.  I really don't want a removable transponder on my windshield, which is why I put the Sunpass/EZPass gray sticker on it, and that works pretty quickly.  So now it looks like the real answer IS to get a transponder from the state with the best perks, and put it up - hassle.  Yuk.

[vdeane]

It would be easier to keep the map up to date if they don't try to put all the toll roads on it.  It was a nice idea when it was the long turnpikes, but now that little toll roads are cropping up everywhere, it would be easier to just do away with it IMO.

[mtantillo]

Well the joke is on me.  This convo caused me to research wether I was getting the discounted ez pass rates at the MTA bridges.  I have had an ez pass for almost 10 years from the PA turnpike.

I used to live in PA.  Then I lived in NJ where I would commute to work via the tappan zee bridge.   I still get the 25 cent discount there making the toll 4.75 so I just assumed the mta bridges would be the same.  NOPE!  I have been paying the full jack each time I go to manhattan, which is like once a week.  I pay 10 bucks round trip at the Henry Hudson and 15 bucks round trip at the triboro instead a of 4.88 and 10.66, respectively.

I am really pissed I didn't check this sooner.  For 2 years I have been letting the mta rob me.  Looks like I am getting the panynj discounts when I use the GWB.  I guess I should check my account more often rather than just seeing the 70 bucks replenishment on my Amex and making assumptions. This cost me over 500 dollars.  Son of a €Â£*^%.

The MTA eliminated discounts for "foreign" transponders in 2009.  Though non-MTA transponders issued in New York State (Thruway, Port Authority, NYS Bridge Authority, and Peace Bridge) are given the discount as well, as they are all managed by one customer service center and you don't get to pick which agency you get a tag from.  The NJ Turnpike Authority is the only other agency that used to give discounts to all and then restricted them to locally issued tags only.  Other states have always given the discount to all (NC, VA, PA, non MTA NY facilities including PA NYNJ, OH, IN, IL), while the remainder have always restricted discounts to those with a local tag (ME, NH, MA, RI, DE, MD, WV).  Note that I'm refering to single use discounts, not commuter plans, all of which require you to have a locally issued tag with only two exceptions (NJ tagholders can apply for certain NY commuter plans: PANYNJ, NYS Bridge Authority, and some Thruway Authority plans; and the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission will allow you to establish a "companion" account, meaning you have a DRJTBC account linked to a non-DRJTBC tag, and it draws from the DRJTBC account on DRJTBC facilities, but from the other account at all other facilities). 

If you can, the easiest way to get an MTA tag if you cross their facilities is to buy one in a cash toll lane.  It is $30, and that entire $30 will be put into a toll balance if you link it to a credit card.  When you register the tag, you can link it to your bank account with "Pay Per Trip" so that you do not have to maintain a pre-paid toll balance, it will take funds from your bank once per day, essentially turning your tag into a debit card.  Then if you even have the slightest chance of taking more than 3 NY-bound trips via the Outerbridge, Goethals, or Bayonne Bridges, sign up for the "Staten Island Bridges Plan".  You have nothing to lose if you make 0, 1, or 2 trips in a month (0 trips = no charges, 1 or 2 will re-post at the normal rate at the end of the month), but if you take 3 or more, you get through for only $5.25 each. 

If you sign up via mail, you might not get an MTA tag.  If you are assigned a Thruway/Bridge Authority/Peace Bridge tag, you won't be able to do pay per trip.  If you are assigned a Port Authority tag, you will also have a $1/month fee. 

[cpzilliacus]

Well the joke is on me.  This convo caused me to research wether I was getting the discounted ez pass rates at the MTA bridges.  I have had an ez pass for almost 10 years from the PA turnpike.

I used to live in PA.  Then I lived in NJ where I would commute to work via the tappan zee bridge.   I still get the 25 cent discount there making the toll 4.75 so I just assumed the mta bridges would be the same.  NOPE!  I have been paying the full jack each time I go to manhattan, which is like once a week.  I pay 10 bucks round trip at the Henry Hudson and 15 bucks round trip at the triboro instead a of 4.88 and 10.66, respectively.

I am really pissed I didn't check this sooner.  For 2 years I have been letting the mta rob me.  Looks like I am getting the panynj discounts when I use the GWB.  I guess I should check my account more often rather than just seeing the 70 bucks replenishment on my Amex and making assumptions. This cost me over 500 dollars.  Son of a €Â£*^%.

The MTA eliminated discounts for "foreign" transponders in 2009.  Though non-MTA transponders issued in New York State (Thruway, Port Authority, NYS Bridge Authority, and Peace Bridge) are given the discount as well, as they are all managed by one customer service center and you don't get to pick which agency you get a tag from.  The NJ Turnpike Authority is the only other agency that used to give discounts to all and then restricted them to locally issued tags only.  Other states have always given the discount to all (NC, VA, PA, non MTA NY facilities including PA NYNJ, OH, IN, IL), while the remainder have always restricted discounts to those with a local tag (ME, NH, MA, RI, DE, MD, WV).  Note that I'm refering to single use discounts, not commuter plans, all of which require you to have a locally issued tag with only two exceptions (NJ tagholders can apply for certain NY commuter plans: PANYNJ, NYS Bridge Authority, and some Thruway Authority plans; and the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission will allow you to establish a "companion" account, meaning you have a DRJTBC account linked to a non-DRJTBC tag, and it draws from the DRJTBC account on DRJTBC facilities, but from the other account at all other facilities). 

If you can, the easiest way to get an MTA tag if you cross their facilities is to buy one in a cash toll lane.  It is $30, and that entire $30 will be put into a toll balance if you link it to a credit card.  When you register the tag, you can link it to your bank account with "Pay Per Trip" so that you do not have to maintain a pre-paid toll balance, it will take funds from your bank once per day, essentially turning your tag into a debit card.  Then if you even have the slightest chance of taking more than 3 NY-bound trips via the Outerbridge, Goethals, or Bayonne Bridges, sign up for the "Staten Island Bridges Plan".  You have nothing to lose if you make 0, 1, or 2 trips in a month (0 trips = no charges, 1 or 2 will re-post at the normal rate at the end of the month), but if you take 3 or more, you get through for only $5.25 each. 

If you sign up via mail, you might not get an MTA tag.  If you are assigned a Thruway/Bridge Authority/Peace Bridge tag, you won't be able to do pay per trip.  If you are assigned a Port Authority tag, you will also have a $1/month fee. 

You have just made an excellent case above for the U.S. Congress to get involved and outlaw most forms of discriminatory setting of toll rates. 

The only form of discrimination that should be allowed is for geographic reasons - persons that reside on Staten Island, N.Y. or Grand Island, N.Y. and must cross a toll bridge to get home or leave home.  Perhaps the U.S. 40 Hatem Bridge is a legitimate exception.

[vdeane]

And that's what the commuter plans are for.  It should be illegal to discriminate by where the tag is from for discounts or commuter plan eligibility.

[cpzilliacus]

And that's what the commuter plans are for.  It should be illegal to discriminate by where the tag is from for discounts or commuter plan eligibility.

That's a reasonable idea.  I don't like the idea of Congress getting involved in the setting of tolls and related matters, which are much better left to the states.  But Congress can and should ban discrimination by states against toll transponders issued by other states.  At the  same time, Congress can tell the states that breezewoods are not allowed (and perhaps offer federal funding for breezewood remediation projects).

[mtantillo]

And that's what the commuter plans are for.  It should be illegal to discriminate by where the tag is from for discounts or commuter plan eligibility.

I sort of agree.  I agree that you should be able to sign up for any commuter plan using a tag from any agency, but I think that it is a reasonable requirement that you have a toll account with the agency that you are getting the commuter discount from.  E-ZPass is set up to exchange money between toll agencies on a "peer to peer" basis, meaning there is no "central clearinghouse" that knows everything about every tag.  So if you use your tag on a "foreign" (out-of-state) toll facility, that toll facility does not have access to your account details.  It will know that your tag is valid, because your home agency sends out a list of every valid tag number the night before.  So instead of processing the transaction in real time, it holds it for a day, and the next day it "bundles" all the transactions that happened using each agency's tags on its facilities, and "sends a request for payment".  Then the agency who has your tag will post the charge to your account using the tag number, will draw the funds from your account (and every other account that paid a toll on the foreign agency's facility) and send a lump sum payment.  In otherwords, between agencies, the E-ZPass network is only set up to deal with a single charge for a single trip. 

Many commuter plans don't charge you per trip, they make you pay a certain amount for multiple trips that can be used within a certain timeframe.  If you don't use all of the trips, you don't get a refund.  If you use up your trips early, the system will purchase another "batch" of trips for you when you use the toll facility next (starting your next cycle at the completion of X trips or Y days, whichever is earlier), OR it will then sell you individual trips at the discounted rate until the plan resets on a certain day of the month.  The E-ZPass network can't process these type transactions between agencies. 

Now what they really should do is allow you to have a "companion account" like Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission does.  So if you have an account with agency X, and you want to use agency Y's commuter plan, you open a separate account with agency Y, but you "BYOT" (Bring Your Own Tag) from another agency.  So if you use a toll facility with agency X, it is billed as a realtime transaction, and if you use a toll facility with any agency other than X or Y, it will be billed as a "foreign transaction" to agency X (since your tag is branded with the 3-digit code for agency X).  If you use a toll facility on agency Y, it will let you through the toll gate knowing that the tag is a valid tag from agency X...but before it sends a request to agency X for payment, the computer will realize that the particular tag has an account with agency Y, and will override the normal procedure to debit the "local" account using the "foreign tag".  No reason why all agencies shouldn't be able to accept accounts with "BYOT"...afterall, it saves them the cost of the tag! And definitely no excuse for giving "single use" discounts to only your home agency's tags. 

I think the problem is that no one really envisioned "discounts to tags from your own agency only" when E-ZPass first came out.  It started in 1993, and I think the NY Thruway charged full fare to everyone.  Then when MTA and PANYNJ came on board, they gave discounts to all tags.  I don't think NJ or PA had discounts when they first got E-ZPass, but I know Delaware did in 1998.  West Virginia was an oddball state...they only gave "annual unlimited permits" to their E-ZPass customers which allowed unlimited use of certain toll plazas on the WV Turnpike...but obviously they took full fare "per trip" transactions if you had an E-ZPass from another state.  Then MA came aboard (merging their FastLane system with E-ZPass) and didn't have any discounts, same with MD.  Then Virginia came with the merger of Smart Tag and E-ZPass, and I think the only facility they had that offered a discount was the Coleman Bridge, and that discount was and still is available to anyone with any tag ($0.85 vs. $2.00 cash, pretty nice discount).  This brings  you up to 2004.  By this time, you had MA, NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, VA, and WV in the E-ZPass network, and discounts were available to everyone on all facilities. 

Then around 2004/2005-ish, two things happeend.  The Maine Turnpike was coming online.  They had a weird system with a barrier/ramp toll setup for those paying cash, and a distance based "ticket system" for those paying electonically with TransPass.  I'm sure they probably did an economic analysis and realized that all of these out of state drivers that have E-ZPass were paying full fares (in cash), and suddenly the Maine Turnpike might face the prospect of reduced income if all of those people who can suddenly pay electronically will be getting discounted toll rates.  I suppose (especially in summertime) a large proportion of Maine Turnpike transactions are from out-of-state drivers.  So they made a decision to only allow those with a Maine E-ZPass to benefit from the distance based system, while all other tags would be charged the prevailing cash rate.  At the same time, there was a raging debate in NH about electronic tolls vs. tokens.  Tokens for NH toll roads were sold at a big discount, and locals complained at the idea of having to pay full fare.  Obviously, NH didn't want non-locals to get the discount because, like Maine, they have a large portion of out-of-state transactions.  So they made a decision that only NH tags would get discounted rates, and others would pay full fare.  Their rationale was that if you didn't live in NH and wanted a discount, you could just as easily get a NH E-ZPass as you could go out of your way to learn about tokens and purchase a roll of them.  At about the same time Massachusetts was toying with the idea of discounts at their tolls for Massachusetts residents only.  They got sued, and the court said that they could not give discounts to Massachusetts residents only, there has to be some way of allowing those from out of state to have access to the discount.  So they decided that they would give discounts to MA FastLane tags only, and not to out of state E-ZPass tags, in effect giving the discount to only Massachusetts residents, but allowing out-of-state residents to get the discount by opening an account with them. 

So all of a sudden, you have 3 states in the group only giving discounts to their own tag.  I suppose the IAG let NH and ME do it for the sake of getting their buy-in and having the ETC interoperability, and I think that MA was allowed to do it because they were accepted into E-ZPass before anyone thought up this idea, so their membership agreement didn't say they couldn't implement a scheme like this.  Then within the next 5 years, a few more states jumped up and say "hey, that's a great way to soak the out-of-state people, lets do it!"  Delaware stopped charging "distance based" tolls for foreign transponders on DE 1.  NJ Turnpike revoked the off-peak discount for foreign transponders in 2011.  MTA in NY revoked the discounted rate for foreign transponders in 2009.  Maryland decided to implement differential pricing as a way of appeasing locals who were facing a toll increase and to encourage people to keep MD E-ZPass accounts (they scared some people off by introducing a $1.50/month fee the year before).  All of these states were able to do this as they were admitted into the IAG long before anyone thought up the idea of restricted discounts. 

But then comes Indiana.  Because Illinois had a "head start" on E-ZPass (through its I-Pass system), and many people in Indiana who lived near Chicago already had I-Pass accounts, Illinois threw its weight around when Indiana was negotiating entry into the IAG.  Illinois demanded that Indiana give discounted toll rates to its I-Pass customers (and therefore, by extension, to E-ZPass tags from any other agency), and Illinois also demanded that Indiana pay IL Tollway a per-transaction fee, since more Indiana Toll Road transactions are processed using I-Pass than Indiana E-ZPass and in effect IL Tollway was providing customer service for 2/3 of Indiana Toll Road ETC users.  Indiana wasn't admitted to the IAG yet, so they had to play nice or they wouldn't get in...unlike NJ, NY, DE, and MD who were already admitted under terms that did not prohibit "transponder discrimination".  Now that E-ZPass is wise to this, they will likely not enter into business agreements with other agencies that would practice transponder discrimination....Ohio and NC were admitted and I don't even think transponder discrimination was ever even discussed at that time.  So hopefully E-ZPass will continue to throw its weight around and demand that, as more agencies accept E-ZPass for payment, they accept it at the "electronic rate" afforded to their own tags. 

[vdeane]

Isn't the discount supposed to reflect the reduced cost of not staffing a booth for the transaction ONLY?  I think it's funny how these agencies act like database queries cost money... they don't.  If they cost anything, it's only because the database is poorly designed.  It's not like E-ZPass is Google.

Regarding the commuter plans, they could work, but only if you change how they're implemented.  Instead of charging full rate and then refunding, if the charge the discount rate and then charge the difference if not enough trips are used, then it could work.  I think the NY agencies wait the day to bill all transactions, not just foreign ones, because it takes a couple of days for them to show up.  I actually had one from the NJ Turnpike show up before a Thruway one that happened earlier on the same day.  Plus if someone lucky enough to be from a jurisdiction with no fee moves to one that does and needs a commuter plan, they're SOL.

[mtantillo]

Isn't the discount supposed to reflect the reduced cost of not staffing a booth for the transaction ONLY?  I think it's funny how these agencies act like database queries cost money... they don't.  If they cost anything, it's only because the database is poorly designed.  It's not like E-ZPass is Google.

Regarding the commuter plans, they could work, but only if you change how they're implemented.  Instead of charging full rate and then refunding, if the charge the discount rate and then charge the difference if not enough trips are used, then it could work.  I think the NY agencies wait the day to bill all transactions, not just foreign ones, because it takes a couple of days for them to show up.  I actually had one from the NJ Turnpike show up before a Thruway one that happened earlier on the same day.  Plus if someone lucky enough to be from a jurisdiction with no fee moves to one that does and needs a commuter plan, they're SOL.

Which agency issues your tag?  Technically, if you have an MTA tag, Thruway transactions are foreign (though rather than go through the peer-to-peer process, they go through the NY Service Center, so that is how NYSC can offer Thruway commuter plans to MTA tagholders, etc.).  Generally only in Virginia are all toll transactions "domestic", and that is because only VDOT joined IAG on behalf of all toll agencies, individual agencies did not join like happened in NY and NJ. 

There is no reason why they can't give one-use discounts to every E-ZPass.  A lot of agencies do.  When the NJ Turnpike and MTA revoked their discounts from everyone, they even admitted that the reason they were doing it was to get extra money from people who were unlikely to notice (or travel enough on those facilities to care).  The reasons I outlined above for ME/NH/MA to do this were not technological reasons, they were money-making reasons.  The CEO's of these toll facilities are interested in maximizing revenue, so they only care that it is technologically possible to collect more money from those who live far away...they probably weren't intially aware and were thrilled to find out it is possible!  So while I don't condone this idea, it is not likely to disappear anytime soon.  The people that get screwed over are those who have an account and then move to a different area.  Why would they change their account over to a local account?  Well, they might be paying a lot more in tolls than they should if they don't!

I like the idea of applying for commuter discounts directly through the toll agency as opposed to through E-ZPass.  This is how Virginia operates...VDOT is a member of the E-ZPass group, and they maintain 2 toll facilities (Coleman Bridge and Powhite Parkway Extension), but process transactions on behalf of all other toll agencies.  So if you want the Chesapeake Expressway commuter plan, VDOT isn't in charge of that.  So you contact the Chesapeake Expressway, and you provide your E-ZPass tag number, and they know when they see that tag in a toll lane to charge the commuter rate to the E-ZPass account.  So no reason I can't sign up for a Maryland plan with my NY tag, technologically speaking.  I also just remembered that it is possible to do a negative interagency transaction (this happens if you get hit for a toll with the wrong vehicle class...happens if the car behind you tailgates you and it thinks you are towing a two-axle trailer, and you complain and they reverse out the charge).  So, if I sign up for a Maryland commuter plan with a NY tag, Maryland could bill me for all of the trips up-front and refund any difference back to the account if need be if not all trips are used and some are refundable, etc. 

[cpzilliacus]

Isn't the discount supposed to reflect the reduced cost of not staffing a booth for the transaction ONLY?  I think it's funny how these agencies act like database queries cost money... they don't.  If they cost anything, it's only because the database is poorly designed.  It's not like E-ZPass is Google.

Regarding the commuter plans, they could work, but only if you change how they're implemented.  Instead of charging full rate and then refunding, if the charge the discount rate and then charge the difference if not enough trips are used, then it could work.  I think the NY agencies wait the day to bill all transactions, not just foreign ones, because it takes a couple of days for them to show up.  I actually had one from the NJ Turnpike show up before a Thruway one that happened earlier on the same day.  Plus if someone lucky enough to be from a jurisdiction with no fee moves to one that does and needs a commuter plan, they're SOL.

Which agency issues your tag?  Technically, if you have an MTA tag, Thruway transactions are foreign (though rather than go through the peer-to-peer process, they go through the NY Service Center, so that is how NYSC can offer Thruway commuter plans to MTA tagholders, etc.).  Generally only in Virginia are all toll transactions "domestic", and that is because only VDOT joined IAG on behalf of all toll agencies, individual agencies did not join like happened in NY and NJ.

I suppose we could say the same in Maryland, since only MdTA issues Maryland E-ZPass tags - but then, there are only two other toll crossings in the state, both operated by private owners that do not accept E-ZPass - White's Ferry between Montgomery County and Loudoun County,  Va. and the Oldtown (low water) Bridge between Allegany County and Green Spring, Hampshire County, W.Va.  Though I think that both  of those could accept E-ZPass if they wanted to.

There is no reason why they can't give one-use discounts to every E-ZPass.  A lot of agencies do.  When the NJ Turnpike and MTA revoked their discounts from everyone, they even admitted that the reason they were doing it was to get extra money from people who were unlikely to notice (or travel enough on those facilities to care).  The reasons I outlined above for ME/NH/MA to do this were not technological reasons, they were money-making reasons.  The CEO's of these toll facilities are interested in maximizing revenue, so they only care that it is technologically possible to collect more money from those who live far away...they probably weren't intially aware and were thrilled to find out it is possible!  So while I don't condone this idea, it is not likely to disappear anytime soon.  The people that get screwed over are those who have an account and then move to a different area.  Why would they change their account over to a local account?  Well, they might be paying a lot more in tolls than they should if they don't!

There is no technical reason why states cannot grant discounts to out-of-state E-ZPass transponders.  They should, if they want  to encourage everyone to adopt  this technology. 

I like the idea of applying for commuter discounts directly through the toll agency as opposed to through E-ZPass.  This is how Virginia operates...VDOT is a member of the E-ZPass group, and they maintain 2 toll facilities (Coleman Bridge and Powhite Parkway Extension), but process transactions on behalf of all other toll agencies.  So if you want the Chesapeake Expressway commuter plan, VDOT isn't in charge of that.  So you contact the Chesapeake Expressway, and you provide your E-ZPass tag number, and they know when they see that tag in a toll lane to charge the commuter rate to the E-ZPass account.  So no reason I can't sign up for a Maryland plan with my NY tag, technologically speaking.  I also just remembered that it is possible to do a negative interagency transaction (this happens if you get hit for a toll with the wrong vehicle class...happens if the car behind you tailgates you and it thinks you are towing a two-axle trailer, and you complain and they reverse out the charge).  So, if I sign up for a Maryland commuter plan with a NY tag, Maryland could bill me for all of the trips up-front and refund any difference back to the account if need be if not all trips are used and some are refundable, etc.

I don't drive it frequently enough to care (maybe five or ten times in a year), but the Dulles Greenway (Va. 267) in Loudoun County carries a fair amount of non-Virginia traffic (mostly Maryland and West Virginia vehicles).  Its owners frequently has banners up touting their VIP Program yet only motorists with Virginia E-ZPass transponders can participate in it.  That is unfair and wrong.

[vdeane]

Which agency issues your tag?

I believe I'm Thruway though it was bought through E-ZPass on-the-go rather than applying directly.

I suppose we could say the same in Maryland, since only MdTA issues Maryland E-ZPass tags - but then, there are only two other toll crossings in the state, both operated by private owners that do not accept E-ZPass - White's Ferry between Montgomery County and Loudoun County,  Va. and the Oldtown (low water) Bridge between Allegany County and Green Spring, Hampshire County, W.Va.  Though I think that both  of those could accept E-ZPass if they wanted to.

NY has a few, mostly at the Canadian border, though there's also the Atlantic Beach Bridge in Far Rockaway.

[mtantillo]

Which agency issues your tag?

I believe I'm Thruway though it was bought through E-ZPass on-the-go rather than applying directly.

I suppose we could say the same in Maryland, since only MdTA issues Maryland E-ZPass tags - but then, there are only two other toll crossings in the state, both operated by private owners that do not accept E-ZPass - White's Ferry between Montgomery County and Loudoun County,  Va. and the Oldtown (low water) Bridge between Allegany County and Green Spring, Hampshire County, W.Va.  Though I think that both  of those could accept E-ZPass if they wanted to.

NY has a few, mostly at the Canadian border, though there's also the Atlantic Beach Bridge in Far Rockaway.

Correct. Prescott-Ogdensburg and the Seaway International ("Three Nations") Bridge do not take any ETC.  Thousand Islands Bridge Authority is "looking into it" I think.  The Atlantic Beach Bridge uses barcode decals (with discriminatory pricing for Nassau County vs. non-Nassau County residents), for unlimited use for a year.  They are pretty expensive though (well over $100) and they all expire on the same date in January, so if you want to purchase one in October, you're either going to overpay or be out of luck. 

Now you just made me think of something.  Here's the proof that you can "bring your own tag" (so you could, say, take advantage of a commuter discount in one state with a tag from another state):

The Niagara Falls Bridge Commission does have ETC, but they went with a sticker tag instead of E-ZPass, though their toll collection equipment can read E-ZPass tags (it just doesn't link to the databases).  It is very interesting that their "ExpressPass" sticker tags don't actually stick onto the windshield. They use the exact same sticker tag technology as GA/NC/CO/UT/WA, but they issue you a hang tag where you can place your ExpressPass on the rearview mirror as you go through the toll plaza.  So much for the toll agencies' arguments that "all tags must be mounted or they won't work".  Interestingly, ehhanced drivers licenses up to DHS standards and US CBP Trusted Traveler cards (NEXUS/FAST/SENTRI/Global Entry) use the exact same technology as ExpressPass, meaning if you have one of those cards, you are broadcasting your "PassID" number to the world, but Niagara Falls Bridge Commission will actually let you use the card as a toll pass! On the Whirlpool Rapids Bridge (NEXUS Only), you tap the card on a card reader to enter the bridge (a toll is deducted leaving the USA, but leaving Canada it only controls access to the bridge span).  On the Rainbow and Lewiston-Queenston Bridge, it can be used in an ExpressPass Only lane, either in a hangtag or just held up to the windshield!

So there.  Niagara River Bridge Commission lets you use a toll pass received from another source (US CBP) to link to their account.  So does Detroit-Windsor Tunnel.  Obviously the card is just used to access a database that each bridge commission uses, so despite using the same NEXUS card, you would need separate "ExpressPass" (NFBC) and "NEXPRESS" (DWT) accounts. 

[vdeane]

I wonder why they don't join E-ZPass; there really isn't much reason not to, especially with the new affiliate membership.