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QuoteThe Florida House is ready to put the state on a path toward three new or expanded toll roads in mostly rural regions, despite fears from environmental groups and Democrats about sprawling development and damage to wetlands.

With the issue a priority of Senate President Bill Galvano, the House on Tuesday set itself up to vote Wednesday on a bill (SB 7068) that would set the stage for the projects. The bill, in part, would establish task forces to study the economic and environmental impacts of the toll roads.

"We did not know we were going to have 1,000 people a day moving to the state of Florida 20 years ago, even 10 years ago probably,"  said Rep. Jay Trumbull, a Panama City Republican leading the issue in the House. "With that, we have to be forward-thinking and make sure that as we try to get goods and services in the state or try to get people out of the state, as it relates to hurricane evacuation routes, the onus is upon us to ensure that we're able to look at new opportunities and look at roads across our state."

The projects would extend the Suncoast Parkway from the Tampa Bay area north to the Georgia border; link the Florida Turnpike west to the Suncoast Parkway; and build a new transportation corridor, including a toll road, from Polk County to Collier County.

https://www.chronicleonline.com/news/state/house-set-to-vote-wednesday-on-plan-that-would-extend/article_3a9baffa-6bab-11e9-b150-270522dd7495.html

I would have preferred connecting with the First Coast Expressway via Ocala.

I recall, from about 15-20 years ago, a FDOT long-range plan that extended the Turnpike to US 19/98 in the vicinity of FL 121 and extended the Suncoast north to that Turnpike extension.

The Suncoast Parkway will likely be extended further north, although the prospect of it going all the way to the Florida/Georgia border seems more like a "Fictional Highways" proposal to me. If it did make it to Georgia, where would it go from there? I think all this is nothing more than a pipe-dream.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 02, 2019, 03:52:28 PM
The Suncoast Parkway will likely be extended further north, although the prospect of it going all the way to the Florida/Georgia border seems more like a "Fictional Highways" proposal to me. If it did make it to Georgia, where would it go from there? I think all this is nothing more than a pipe-dream.

https://www.wcjb.com/content/news/New-toll-road-plan-whips-up-both-support-and-criticism-509365831.html

This article has a map generally showing the routes of the proposals.

(https://media.graytvinc.com/images/810*454/Screen+Shot+2019-05-02+at+4.35.43+AM.png)

It would extend about 150 miles between the current northern terminus and I-75 in Georgia. It would act a relief route to I-75, and a more direct route for traffic from Tampa (especially those in the northeastern suburbs) to I-10 West, which current has to go inland to I-75, or follow two-lane roads along the coast, both take about the same amount of time depending where you are in the metro area.

Also, not technically a "Fictional Highways" proposal as this is indeed a true proposal and is official. It's not some letter to the editor post or idea came up here on the forum.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 02, 2019, 03:52:28 PM
The Suncoast Parkway will likely be extended further north, although the prospect of it going all the way to the Florida/Georgia border seems more like a "Fictional Highways" proposal to me. If it did make it to Georgia, where would it go from there? I think all this is nothing more than a pipe-dream.

Even if it did hit the FL/GA border and just ended with GA not doing anything for several years, as long as the connection to I-10 is made, it will serve a good purpose.  Get traffic from the west heading towards Central and South FL a bypass around Lake City, Gainesville, and Ocala.  I think that, in and of itself, is worthy of something.  FL needs relief everywhere!

I don't care for tolls that much, but with something like these proposals, I can understand it. Similar to the US-460 toll road proposal that -almost- got built here in Virginia, they will serve as an alternative route to an existing free interstate highway. If you don't want to pay the toll, you still have a free, interstate-grade option. You'll have more traffic, and deal with urban areas, but it's still better then a two-lane roadway being that -free- alternative. Similarly, I don't care for urban toll roads that much either. They have the potential to relief a significant amount of traffic, but don't get full usage because they have tolls. Even with four-lane non-limited-access highways, tolls can work fine and still provide a reliable free option.

When they build a relief route to a two-lane roadway or an urban at-grade roadway by making it a toll road though, that's when I don't bite much. Same with tolling existing interstates. But new location proposals paralleling roughly existing interstate-highway corridors and four-lane non-limited-access -rural- highways make more sense IMHO. But that doesn't mean make every freeway a toll road either.

That Marco–Lakeland corridor isn't even on FritzOwl's plans. Maybe one day Sebring will push for a spur to I-75 or Lakeland suggests one towards the Turnpike, but there's nothing else major there along that area. There's plenty of ROW to 4-lane existing two-lane highways. Maybe you put some bypasses along US 27, widen FL 29 or 951 in places and that's about it. I doubt Marco Island wants a increase in build-up and build-out.

Quote from: formulanone on May 02, 2019, 05:53:13 PM
That Marco–Lakeland corridor isn't even on FritzOwl's plans. Maybe one day Sebring will push for a spur to I-75 or Lakeland suggests one towards the Turnpike, but there's nothing else major there along that area. There's plenty of ROW to 4-lane existing two-lane highways. Maybe you put some bypasses along US 27, widen FL 29 or 951 in places and that's about it. I doubt Marco Island wants a increase in build-up and build-out.

I think if they upgrade the corridors from Naples and Ft. Myers east to this new corridor, it would serve its purpose, which would be to give rapidly-growing SW FL an additional limited access corridor out of the region that isn't I-75.

I, for one, have utilized the US 27 corridor in the past to travel b/w Orlando and Ft. Myers.  The need is there.

I believe the one to Lakeland south to Marco is a rebirth of the Heartlands Parkway that was proposed under Jeb Bush's administration (whether he was behind it or his legislative body) which would allow for a limited access freeway in the middle of the state.  Right now its either US 17 or travel west along I-75 to I-4 to get to Central Florida.

I-75 needs all the relief it can get between Florida's Turnpike and I-10.

The First Coast Expressway is more likely to make it to Georgia, in my opinion, than the Suncoast Parkway. I don't see that happening either, so I'll believe it when I see it.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 02, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
I don't care for tolls that much, but with something like these proposals, I can understand it. Similar to the US-460 toll road proposal that -almost- got built here in Virginia, they will serve as an alternative route to an existing free interstate highway. If you don't want to pay the toll, you still have a free, interstate-grade option. You'll have more traffic, and deal with urban areas, but it's still better then a two-lane roadway being that -free- alternative. Similarly, I don't care for urban toll roads that much either. They have the potential to relief a significant amount of traffic, but don't get full usage because they have tolls. Even with four-lane non-limited-access highways, tolls can work fine and still provide a reliable free option.

When they build a relief route to a two-lane roadway or an urban at-grade roadway by making it a toll road though, that's when I don't bite much. Same with tolling existing interstates. But new location proposals paralleling roughly existing interstate-highway corridors and four-lane non-limited-access -rural- highways make more sense IMHO. But that doesn't mean make every freeway a toll road either.

During an evacuation there are no tolls.

However, being people are so with GPSes why not just program the device to pick existing routes that are not I-75, I-95, or SR 91 to use as people rely on that voice that says "Turn left ahead, turn right ahead, etc." as that is what I see people doing now.  Just have it navigate for them by getting the GPS companies to upgrade their programs to handle that!

I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

I would love to see this changed to more of the US 19 corridor to the east of Tallahassee and then perhaps kick into the US 27 corridor up Georgia.  That would bypass the extremely heavy traffic on I-75 (where there is always construction and always at least one accident stopping traffic for miles when I go through).  It could bend back to I-75 from Rome to Calhoun, and then somewhere around Dalton to Cleveland, TN (GA 71 looks like a straight shot) bypass I-75 going to Chattanooga.

Quote from: Gnutella on May 04, 2019, 08:44:39 AM
I-75 needs all the relief it can get between Florida's Turnpike and I-10.

The why not widen I-75?  That would seem to make a lot more sense than building a new tollroad to the west of there.

Did Fritz Owl write this article?  The proposal is unrealistic.  Although it is ashamed that US 27 isn't the great alternative that it once was just a few short years ago.

Quote from: froggie on May 02, 2019, 01:46:09 PM
I recall, from about 15-20 years ago, a FDOT long-range plan that extended the Turnpike to US 19/98 in the vicinity of FL 121 and extended the Suncoast north to that Turnpike extension.

It was further south than that. In fact it was at Citrus County Road 488 in Red Level. It should only go that far.

Well the Suncoast should be part of the planned proposal of a total US 301 upgrade.  It should go through Ocala area and up through Waldo, Starke (yes use the Truck Alternate that is presently being built), and Lawtley and end at I-10.

The Turnpike should go to Lebanon then US 19 & 98 should be freeway up to Perry with maybe tolled bypasses of  Chiefland, Fanning Springs, Old Towne, and Cross City.  Improve the part south of Perry as that is very dangerous being its so boring from Cross City to US 221.   From Perry to Capps it should be upgraded too and then a new alignment to I-10 and maybe GDOT will think again and build that I-175 they scrapped in favor of the Georgia- Florida Parkway they created with expressway segments of both US 19 and GA 300.

Quote from: Beltway on May 06, 2019, 11:34:08 PM

Quote from: Gnutella on May 04, 2019, 08:44:39 AM
I-75 needs all the relief it can get between Florida's Turnpike and I-10.

The why not widen I-75?  That would seem to make a lot more sense than building a new tollroad to the west of there.

Likely funding reasons. A toll road can be toll financed, whereas an interstate widening (it's already 6 lanes all the way thru Florida, so it'd be 8-laned) would require regular funding sources.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 07, 2019, 05:12:21 PM

Quote from: Beltway on May 06, 2019, 11:34:08 PM
The why not widen I-75?  That would seem to make a lot more sense than building a new tollroad to the west of there.

Likely funding reasons. A toll road can be toll financed, whereas an interstate widening (it's already 6 lanes all the way thru Florida, so it'd be 8-laned) would require regular funding sources.

Doubtful that toll road could be supported with standalone toll funding, so part of the funding would require regular funding sources.  And it would be far more expensive to build.

Such a toll road would have to compete with the US-19 corridor, a 4-lane intra-state highway that is toll-free.
 
The northeastern Gulf coast of Florida is sparsely populated and doesn't need such a highway.

^^^ sparsely populated for now. This proposed toll road won't be completed until 2030 per the bill's wording. Lots of growth has occurred in the last decade in Florida.

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

If you want more snowbird bypass for Atlanta, improve the corridor between Marianna FL and Birmingham, AL, specifically around Dothan.

Quote from: edwaleni on May 09, 2019, 11:07:28 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

If you want more snowbird bypass for Atlanta, improve the corridor between Marianna FL and Birmingham, AL, specifically around Dothan.

There was a proposal to have a tolled spur of I-10 to run along US 231 from Cottondale northward and actually cut through the middle of Dothan.  Someone here showed and posted the plans.  One politician running for office in 2010 actually made it one of his concerns to have that particular road built even.

I guess we need another Michael to wake up some of the people in that part of the nation to finally realize that such a freeway is warranted.

Quote from: roadman65 on May 09, 2019, 11:28:17 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on May 09, 2019, 11:07:28 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

If you want more snowbird bypass for Atlanta, improve the corridor between Marianna FL and Birmingham, AL, specifically around Dothan.

There was a proposal to have a tolled spur of I-10 to run along US 231 from Cottondale northward and actually cut through the middle of Dothan.  Someone here showed and posted the plans.  One politician running for office in 2010 actually made it one of his concerns to have that particular road built even.

I guess we need another Michael to wake up some of the people in that part of the nation to finally realize that such a freeway is warranted.

The last time it was discussed, the towns of Enterprise and Ozark got in a dispute over its routing in or near Fort Rucker.

The route isn't too bad today between Dothan and Montgomery, but getting around Dothan is the pits. ALDOT is more concerned about the Montgomery Bypass with I-85 to Selma now that I-22 is done farther north.

It would relieve I-75 between Macon and Lake City Fl for the snowbirds, but they would still have to traverse I-75 between Lake City and the tollroad.

So when they do push the Suncoast up further to Lecanto it wont help I-75 until it really gets past Chiefland. If it ever reaches Perry, people won't go to Lake City anymore to reach Tampa or the gulf coast.

Quote from: roadman65 on May 09, 2019, 11:28:17 PM
There was a proposal to have a tolled spur of I-10 to run along US 231 from Cottondale northward and actually cut through the middle of Dothan.  Someone here showed and posted the plans.  One politician running for office in 2010 actually made it one of his concerns to have that particular road built even.

I guess we need another Michael to wake up some of the people in that part of the nation to finally realize that such a freeway is warranted.

Alabama pulled a number of interstate highway proposals off the table a couple of years back, and the Dothan connector was one of those.

Quote from: bigdave on May 10, 2019, 08:31:34 AM
Alabama pulled a number of interstate highway proposals off the table a couple of years back, and the Dothan connector was one of those.

Too bad. I remember the crusade to convert US 231 into an interstate to or through Dothan. It would've been nice to see it as an extension of I-85 towards Panama City. They even had a website that died off several years ago. If I'm not mistaken, it was called "SaveDothan[dot]org," or something like that. Your average environmental organization would probably throw a fit if they saw some website claiming to save a city or community that turned out to be pro-interstate highway.

:biggrin:

^ Despite outward appearances, Dothan's a dying city.  They saw a route through town as a way to revitalize the city, so it's really not shocking that they supported the highway.  Many (most?) cities that oppose such highway projects are NOT dying.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on May 10, 2019, 02:15:09 PM
Too bad. I remember the crusade to convert US 231 into an interstate to or through Dothan. It would've been nice to see it as an extension of I-85 towards Panama City. They even had a website that died off several years ago. If I'm not mistaken, it was called "SaveDothan[dot]org," or something like that. Your average environmental organization would probably throw a fit if they saw some website claiming to save a city or community that turned out to be pro-interstate highway.

I remember that site. The state was quite reasonably looking at a bypass, and all of the beach traffic would have gone around Dothan instead of slogging their way through town. And of course a bypass would have been cheaper, not even taking into account dealing with a railyard in Dothan if it went straight into town.

Here's my post from last fall:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5555.msg2352697#msg2352697

Quote from: Life in Paradise on May 06, 2019, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

I would love to see this changed to more of the US 19 corridor to the east of Tallahassee and then perhaps kick into the US 27 corridor up Georgia.  That would bypass the extremely heavy traffic on I-75 (where there is always construction and always at least one accident stopping traffic for miles when I go through).  It could bend back to I-75 from Rome to Calhoun, and then somewhere around Dalton to Cleveland, TN (GA 71 looks like a straight shot) bypass I-75 going to Chattanooga.

I would also include I-185 in the routing, seeing that it's already a spur from I-85 to Columbus. But other than that, I love the idea! Too bad FL and GA will never go for it, because they don't see eye-to-eye on anything.

Quote from: froggie on May 12, 2019, 08:02:04 AM
^ Despite outward appearances, Dothan's a dying city.  They saw a route through town as a way to revitalize the city, so it's really not shocking that they supported the highway.  Many (most?) cities that oppose such highway projects are NOT dying.

Then when they do get the highway to rebuild the city, several decades later the new city wants to convert it back to boulevard status hence Syracuse, Dallas, and now Tampa.  Oh yeah, NYC with I-895 now being history.

Quote from: Henry on May 13, 2019, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on May 06, 2019, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

I would love to see this changed to more of the US 19 corridor to the east of Tallahassee and then perhaps kick into the US 27 corridor up Georgia.  That would bypass the extremely heavy traffic on I-75 (where there is always construction and always at least one accident stopping traffic for miles when I go through).  It could bend back to I-75 from Rome to Calhoun, and then somewhere around Dalton to Cleveland, TN (GA 71 looks like a straight shot) bypass I-75 going to Chattanooga.

I would also include I-185 in the routing, seeing that it's already a spur from I-85 to Columbus. But other than that, I love the idea! Too bad FL and GA will never go for it, because they don't see eye-to-eye on anything.

Agreed.  I'd route it near Tallahassee then up to Albany GA, then turn GA 520 into a proper expressway from Albany to Columbus.  I've seen a proposal made to make Alt 27 from Newnan to Carrollton then 27 from Carrollton to Rome and SR 53 from Rome to Calhoun an expressway, which could tie into this.  But that's more new expressway than Georgia has built in several decades, and would have to compete with proposed I-14.

Quote from: Finrod on May 17, 2019, 03:36:53 PM

Quote from: Henry on May 13, 2019, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on May 06, 2019, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

I would love to see this changed to more of the US 19 corridor to the east of Tallahassee and then perhaps kick into the US 27 corridor up Georgia.  That would bypass the extremely heavy traffic on I-75 (where there is always construction and always at least one accident stopping traffic for miles when I go through).  It could bend back to I-75 from Rome to Calhoun, and then somewhere around Dalton to Cleveland, TN (GA 71 looks like a straight shot) bypass I-75 going to Chattanooga.

I would also include I-185 in the routing, seeing that it's already a spur from I-85 to Columbus. But other than that, I love the idea! Too bad FL and GA will never go for it, because they don't see eye-to-eye on anything.

Agreed.  I'd route it near Tallahassee then up to Albany GA, then turn GA 520 into a proper expressway from Albany to Columbus.  I've seen a proposal made to make Alt 27 from Newnan to Carrollton then 27 from Carrollton to Rome and SR 53 from Rome to Calhoun an expressway, which could tie into this.  But that's more new expressway than Georgia has built in several decades, and would have to compete with proposed I-14.

Well, since Alabama's state government seems poised to return the state to premodern times (including providing any more freeway access than is presently on the ground), it would seem to be up to the state of GA to host any corridors coming up from FL.  What GA has going for it is their GRIP program, itself a legislated (2005 under SAFETEA-LU) high-priority corridor "cluster", which technically can be any type of rural road improvement, from better-aligned 2-lane facilities all the way to expressways with occasional grade separations.  If something like the Suncoast corridor could be coordinated with the GA efforts, the above suggestion of improving US 19 from the state line to Albany (already an expressway) and then to Columbus might be feasible -- although it's likely not to be an Interstate-grade corridor but rather a standard rural expressway with the occasional interchange (at major crossing routes).  It could and likely would use the GA 300 corridor as an accessway to I-75, as well as using GRIP 520 up to I-185 in Columbus.  Since last year's signage of the "Fall Line" expressway continuum as GRIP 540 from Columbus to Augusta, it seems GA has something of a renewed commitment to the long-distance in-state corridor concept (joining 515 and 520 in that regard).  Whether that enthusiasm could and would be extended to a long-distance corridor up the west side of the state (functioning as something of an Atlanta bypass, as 540 is to some degree) is yet TBD.

Even though there are some GA collegiate enthusiasts re the I-14 concept as applicable in that state, Alabama's recent withdrawal from the limited-access arena has for all intents & purposes rendered that concept unattainable -- at least for the near term.  While much of the GRIP 540 corridor does line up with the various I-14 proposals past & present, the point is moot until such time as the rest of the Deep South snaps out of their recently expressed apparent desire to return to the 1950's (if not the 1850's).  At about 250K for the metro area, Columbus certainly qualifies as a traffic generator; something like an I-16 western extension along an upgraded GRIP 540 might not be out of the question -- even leaving any AL mileage out of the equation.  But such an upgrade project would take quite a chunk of change to do -- something GADOT is unlikely to have available, considering other statewide needs.  An educated guess indicates that incremental expressway-level upgrades to GRIP corridors will constitute the projects of choice within GA for the foreseeable future -- and if FL proposes any joint projects, GADOT will likely make clear that such activities will have to mesh with what is already on the ground or in the works -- such as the US 19 corridor north to at least Albany. A corridor that doesn't serve as a reasonable alternative to the perennially packed I-75 but instead diverts traffic away at or south of the FL state line won't provide much relief to the GA section of that route; running the Suncoast extension up to the US 19 state line crossing might have the potential of diverting some roadside tourist dollars to that relatively impoverished section of GA.   Now -- of course FL could unilaterally simply take the Suncoast up to I-75 on their side of the state line to simply provide a traffic diversion within their jurisdiction.  But then FL would have to consider the value of the Suncoast as simply a I-75 reliever -- but in doing so, would leave their own underserved area of Tallahassee as is; a corridor up US 19 would better serve their own state capital in the process. 

Quote from: sparker on May 19, 2019, 05:06:31 AM
Well, since Alabama's state government seems poised to return the state to premodern times (including providing any more freeway access than is presently on the ground), it would seem to be up to the state of GA to host any corridors coming up from FL.  What GA has going for it is their GRIP program, itself a legislated (2005 under SAFETEA-LU) high-priority corridor "cluster", which technically can be any type of rural road improvement, from better-aligned 2-lane facilities all the way to expressways with occasional grade separations.  If something like the Suncoast corridor could be coordinated with the GA efforts, the above suggestion of improving US 19 from the state line to Albany (already an expressway) and then to Columbus might be feasible -- although it's likely not to be an Interstate-grade corridor but rather a standard rural expressway with the occasional interchange (at major crossing routes).  It could and likely would use the GA 300 corridor as an accessway to I-75, as well as using GRIP 520 up to I-185 in Columbus.  Since last year's signage of the "Fall Line" expressway continuum as GRIP 540 from Columbus to Augusta, it seems GA has something of a renewed commitment to the long-distance in-state corridor concept (joining 515 and 520 in that regard).  Whether that enthusiasm could and would be extended to a long-distance corridor up the west side of the state (functioning as something of an Atlanta bypass, as 540 is to some degree) is yet TBD.

What about an extension of I-77 from Columbia, SC, following roughly U.S 301 and/or a variety of other routes to hit Waycross and ending at Valdosta and I-75? If South Carolina doesn't want to play, then extend I-77 concurrently with I-20 to Augusta, then head south from there. Even if it isn't a full interstate, upgrades and new alignments to existing routes, a la the Fall Line Expressway, could provide an alternative to I-26 to I-95 and various routes back across Florida to get to I-75. This would also open up the "middle" of Georgia with better transportation options.

Bruce in Blacksburg (who tried the Fall Line and the U.S. 129/221/1 routes once)

Quote from: VTGoose on May 20, 2019, 11:38:04 AM

Quote from: sparker on May 19, 2019, 05:06:31 AM
Well, since Alabama's state government seems poised to return the state to premodern times (including providing any more freeway access than is presently on the ground), it would seem to be up to the state of GA to host any corridors coming up from FL.  What GA has going for it is their GRIP program, itself a legislated (2005 under SAFETEA-LU) high-priority corridor "cluster", which technically can be any type of rural road improvement, from better-aligned 2-lane facilities all the way to expressways with occasional grade separations.  If something like the Suncoast corridor could be coordinated with the GA efforts, the above suggestion of improving US 19 from the state line to Albany (already an expressway) and then to Columbus might be feasible -- although it's likely not to be an Interstate-grade corridor but rather a standard rural expressway with the occasional interchange (at major crossing routes).  It could and likely would use the GA 300 corridor as an accessway to I-75, as well as using GRIP 520 up to I-185 in Columbus.  Since last year's signage of the "Fall Line" expressway continuum as GRIP 540 from Columbus to Augusta, it seems GA has something of a renewed commitment to the long-distance in-state corridor concept (joining 515 and 520 in that regard).  Whether that enthusiasm could and would be extended to a long-distance corridor up the west side of the state (functioning as something of an Atlanta bypass, as 540 is to some degree) is yet TBD.

What about an extension of I-77 from Columbia, SC, following roughly U.S 301 and/or a variety of other routes to hit Waycross and ending at Valdosta and I-75? If South Carolina doesn't want to play, then extend I-77 concurrently with I-20 to Augusta, then head south from there. Even if it isn't a full interstate, upgrades and new alignments to existing routes, a la the Fall Line Expressway, could provide an alternative to I-26 to I-95 and various routes back across Florida to get to I-75. This would also open up the "middle" of Georgia with better transportation options.

Bruce in Blacksburg (who tried the Fall Line and the U.S. 129/221/1 routes once)

The question would be: is there a demonstrated or projected need -- clear & present or long-term -- for an additional N-S SC-FL connector between I-75 and I-95?  I know both routes can be periodic sites of congestion -- but does that yet rise to the point where a "relief" corridor -- like something between Augusta (or at least somewhere along the eastern reaches of the Fall Line) down to Valdosta (don't see why it would detour through Waycross, unless a branch down to Jacksonville were contemplated) -- essentially following US 221 and dovetailing with whatever FL decides as a Suncoast extension alignment.  That would in essence create something of a lateral "shunt" from the Interstate network in the Carolinas over to I-75 (while avoiding Atlanta and its myriad pitfalls) and FL's west coast.  Something like that (which would involve multiplexing I-77 over I-20 for a distance) might actually be worthwhile, particularly if traffic coming south on I-85 or I-77 wanted to get to that side of Florida without having to schlep over to I-95 or brave Atlanta traffic.  Frankly -- to one who has been required to deal with Atlanta regularly over the years (GF's family issues), any attempt to divert traffic away from there is welcome -- from the POV's of both the city and the driving public.  And perhaps I-95 is not LOS "C" or worse most of the time outside major cities and metro areas -- but without alternatives it'll eventually get that way. 

Now the GA GRIP system seems like a "kissing cousin" to the original California Freeway & Expressway system -- the goal was to connect county seats and towns above 10K population (the original CA criteria was 5K back in '59) with safe and efficient roads -- obviously a worthwhile goal.  But it could -- with a bit of "massaging" -- be configured in a way to do what needs to be done regarding Atlanta diversion.  But GDOT seems to be occupied with dealing with the intra-Atlanta commute situation that's a current pressing problem; expanding and enhancing the radial commute routes in the area (e.g. GA 316) to handle ever-increasing volume appears to suck up much of the agency's resources.  Diversion would certainly help -- but whether state funds can be redirected to that type of project versus the present existing metro requirements is less certain.  The fact that over the past couple of decades enough capital was found to get much of the Fall Line/GRIP 540 corridor completed (now, if they can get a Macon bypass online......) is in itself promising -- but the many abortive attempts for an outer Atlanta ring -- shot down by NIMBY reaction -- seems to indicate that there are limits as to what can be done.  And a corridor concept clearly aimed at expediting traffic from the Carolinas to Florida might not be received as something to prioritize (unless a halfway decent case can be made for sucking $$ out of tourists' pocketbooks via provision of roadside facilities and attractions).   Upshot: not a bad idea -- but selling it within the state might be an uphill battle!

Quote from: roadman65 on May 14, 2019, 10:07:45 AM

Quote from: froggie on May 12, 2019, 08:02:04 AM
^ Despite outward appearances, Dothan's a dying city.  They saw a route through town as a way to revitalize the city, so it's really not shocking that they supported the highway.  Many (most?) cities that oppose such highway projects are NOT dying.

Then when they do get the highway to rebuild the city, several decades later the new city wants to convert it back to boulevard status hence Syracuse, Dallas, and now Tampa.  Oh yeah, NYC with I-895 now being history.

All of which are screwing themselves up if and when they do. And what road is Tampa seeking to downgrade to boulevard status?

Having said that, I still don't like the current plans.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on May 22, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
And what road is Tampa seeking to downgrade to boulevard status?

That would be I-275 for the first several miles north of the I-4 interchange.  At present, it's the usual suspects (this effort appeared on their "top ten" list of suggested teardowns) pressing for this; it's unclear if there is currently much in the way of official or broad local support for this action.

Quote from: sparker on May 22, 2019, 01:24:35 PM

Quote from: D-Dey65 on May 22, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
And what road is Tampa seeking to downgrade to boulevard status?

That would be I-275 for the first several miles north of the I-4 interchange.  At present, it's the usual suspects (this effort appeared on their "top ten" list of suggested teardowns) pressing for this; it's unclear if there is currently much in the way of official or broad local support for this action.

I reiterate; They're screwing things up for themselves by pulling shit like this!  Where do they think all the traffic on I-275 is going to go?!

I-75 to I-4?  :D

Quote from: Rothman on May 22, 2019, 08:10:55 PM
I-75 to I-4?  :D

And they want us to think that's going to make things better? Not a chance!

I heard from a reliable source that the DOT is going to opt to add more lanes and not consider the downgrade as a public opinion study was done and people support widening I-275.

Quote from: roadman65 on July 06, 2019, 12:53:42 AM
I heard from a reliable source that the DOT is going to opt to add more lanes and not consider the downgrade as a public opinion study was done and people support widening I-275.

Good. The BR/T advocacy groups have failed once again.

Quote from: Henry on May 13, 2019, 10:45:38 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on May 06, 2019, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: Tomahawkin on May 04, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
I need to see either one extended into Georgia and around Atlanta as another Atlanta bypass for the snowbirds. Hopefully both Florida and Georgia could work in collaboration to get this started. It would be the real Georgia-Florida highway. Plus either route would provide hurricane relief during evacuations

I would love to see this changed to more of the US 19 corridor to the east of Tallahassee and then perhaps kick into the US 27 corridor up Georgia.  That would bypass the extremely heavy traffic on I-75 (where there is always construction and always at least one accident stopping traffic for miles when I go through).  It could bend back to I-75 from Rome to Calhoun, and then somewhere around Dalton to Cleveland, TN (GA 71 looks like a straight shot) bypass I-75 going to Chattanooga.

I would also include I-185 in the routing, seeing that it's already a spur from I-85 to Columbus. But other than that, I love the idea! Too bad FL and GA will never go for it, because they don't see eye-to-eye on anything.

Also, the I-85/185 interchange is designed with ghost ramps to extend I-185 northward for what appears to me to be a future major connection into the US 27 corridor towards Chattanooga.  I can also foresee a need for a much improved free-flowing through traffic feed into I-185 at the north end of Fort Benning.

Next up, a major tunnel (six or even eight lanes???) to bypass Monteagle Hill?

:hmmm:

:nod:

Mike

Quote from: mgk920 on July 11, 2019, 12:22:07 PM
Also, the I-85/185 interchange is designed with ghost ramps to extend I-185 northward for what appears to me to be a future major connection into the US 27 corridor towards Chattanooga.

The intent for that highway extension was merely to be La Grange bypass, then terminate back at US-27 north of the city.

That was the original proposal at least... haven't heard of anything further north.

It appears that the La Grange Bypass has been cancelled: http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/documents/GRIP/Facts/US27FactSheet.pdf
Instead Hamilton Road is being four-laned.

Here's and update regarding this and the other toll roads proposed. At the very least they should provide the ROW needed to build them in the future.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2020/09/23/still-no-answers-task-forces-looking-into-proposed-florida-toll-roads/5864388002/

It could be that Florida is experiencing "toll road fatigue". On the other hand, how else will the state build the roads, regardless of whether they are wanted or needed?

^

The Suncoast Pkwy extension may be a viable alternative to I-75, particularly on peak weekends, considering it would be built to full interstate standards. Perhaps an 75 or 80 mph toll road speed limit?

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 24, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Here's and update regarding this and the other toll roads proposed. At the very least they should provide the ROW needed to build them in the future.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2020/09/23/still-no-answers-task-forces-looking-into-proposed-florida-toll-roads/5864388002/

From Crystal River northward, any new-terrain facility, tolled or not, would have to traverse miles and miles of swampland, which would pose (a) exceptionally high construction costs, and (b) environmental issues due to destruction of the wetlands or, at minimum, interruption of the natural swamp ebb and flow.  The only reason US 19/98 is there is that it followed a now-defunct railroad grade from Chiefland to Perry; the only reason it's a divided 4-lane is that it used that RR grade for expansion from the original 2 lanes.  The only practical path toward Tallahassee is via an upgrade of the present US 19 facility with town bypasses -- and applying tolls to an existing facility, upgrades or not, probably wouldn't fly politically in FL.   The Suncoast has probably gone as far as it will go in its current configuration; any northward facilities will likely be freeway upgrades of US 19.  As far as actually getting to Tallahassee, the vocal opposition in Jefferson County will likely mean any toll facility will likely parallel US 19 from US 27 up to I-10 and on to the GA state line.  But I don't foresee any toll facility extending south of Perry in any case; a freeway along US 19/98 from Perry to Crystal Springs would connect that to the Suncoast northern terminus.  Putting a toll facility in to augment an existing facility might be a politically feasible idea, but tolling an upgraded existing facility, particularly one that functions as the "lifeline" of a region, has a minimal if any chance of being implemented.  If indeed a tolled facility is in the initial planning stages, it'll probably be reconfigured as an extension of FL 589 up to the Crystal River area,  along with a north FL limited-access facility north of Perry.  What's in between those facilities will probably be upgraded a mile or two at a time as FDOT budgets allow. 

Quote from: sparker on September 25, 2020, 02:47:21 AM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 24, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Here's and update regarding this and the other toll roads proposed. At the very least they should provide the ROW needed to build them in the future.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2020/09/23/still-no-answers-task-forces-looking-into-proposed-florida-toll-roads/5864388002/

From Crystal River northward, any new-terrain facility, tolled or not, would have to traverse miles and miles of swampland, which would pose (a) exceptionally high construction costs, and (b) environmental issues due to destruction of the wetlands or, at minimum, interruption of the natural swamp ebb and flow.  The only reason US 19/98 is there is that it followed a now-defunct railroad grade from Chiefland to Perry; the only reason it's a divided 4-lane is that it used that RR grade for expansion from the original 2 lanes.  The only practical path toward Tallahassee is via an upgrade of the present US 19 facility with town bypasses -- and applying tolls to an existing facility, upgrades or not, probably wouldn't fly politically in FL.   The Suncoast has probably gone as far as it will go in its current configuration; any northward facilities will likely be freeway upgrades of US 19.  As far as actually getting to Tallahassee, the vocal opposition in Jefferson County will likely mean any toll facility will likely parallel US 19 from US 27 up to I-10 and on to the GA state line.  But I don't foresee any toll facility extending south of Perry in any case; a freeway along US 19/98 from Perry to Crystal Springs would connect that to the Suncoast northern terminus.  Putting a toll facility in to augment an existing facility might be a politically feasible idea, but tolling an upgraded existing facility, particularly one that functions as the "lifeline" of a region, has a minimal if any chance of being implemented.  If indeed a tolled facility is in the initial planning stages, it'll probably be reconfigured as an extension of FL 589 up to the Crystal River area,  along with a north FL limited-access facility north of Perry.  What's in between those facilities will probably be upgraded a mile or two at a time as FDOT budgets allow. 

US 19/98 is already underutilized, a toll facility would go unused as folks stay on 19/98. This is why there's been a long-standing proposal to extend Florida's Turnpike to just south of Perry (and I wish they'd get on it!), so I don't think extending the Suncoast is going to gain any traction.

Quote from: DeaconG on September 26, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

Quote from: sparker on September 25, 2020, 02:47:21 AM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 24, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
Here's and update regarding this and the other toll roads proposed. At the very least they should provide the ROW needed to build them in the future.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2020/09/23/still-no-answers-task-forces-looking-into-proposed-florida-toll-roads/5864388002/

From Crystal River northward, any new-terrain facility, tolled or not, would have to traverse miles and miles of swampland, which would pose (a) exceptionally high construction costs, and (b) environmental issues due to destruction of the wetlands or, at minimum, interruption of the natural swamp ebb and flow.  The only reason US 19/98 is there is that it followed a now-defunct railroad grade from Chiefland to Perry; the only reason it's a divided 4-lane is that it used that RR grade for expansion from the original 2 lanes.  The only practical path toward Tallahassee is via an upgrade of the present US 19 facility with town bypasses -- and applying tolls to an existing facility, upgrades or not, probably wouldn't fly politically in FL.   The Suncoast has probably gone as far as it will go in its current configuration; any northward facilities will likely be freeway upgrades of US 19.  As far as actually getting to Tallahassee, the vocal opposition in Jefferson County will likely mean any toll facility will likely parallel US 19 from US 27 up to I-10 and on to the GA state line.  But I don't foresee any toll facility extending south of Perry in any case; a freeway along US 19/98 from Perry to Crystal Springs would connect that to the Suncoast northern terminus.  Putting a toll facility in to augment an existing facility might be a politically feasible idea, but tolling an upgraded existing facility, particularly one that functions as the "lifeline" of a region, has a minimal if any chance of being implemented.  If indeed a tolled facility is in the initial planning stages, it'll probably be reconfigured as an extension of FL 589 up to the Crystal River area,  along with a north FL limited-access facility north of Perry.  What's in between those facilities will probably be upgraded a mile or two at a time as FDOT budgets allow. 

US 19/98 is already underutilized, a toll facility would go unused as folks stay on 19/98. This is why there's been a long-standing proposal to extend Florida's Turnpike to just south of Perry (and I wish they'd get on it!), so I don't think extending the Suncoast is going to gain any traction.

Any Florida Turnpike northwest extension proposal would invariably merge with the Suncoast concept somewhere around Lake Rousseau in any case, so it would encounter the same obstacles that an extended Suncoast would -- which is why north of that point a tolled facility isn't really a practical option.  New-terrain facilities will have to scoot over to 19/98 at some point and "piggyback" on that ROW at least as far north as Perry just to avoid swamp issues.  North of there it would be simply a matter of choosing the most feasible political option toward I-10 and/or Tallahassee.

There was a proposed toll road about 15-20 years ago that would do a lot of good for Florida, it would run from Fort Pierce to Tampa and give Central Florida a viable needed alternate to I-4, but I think that one is off the agenda. (I think the name might be Heartland Pkwy)

The SW proposal from Lakeland to Fort Myers does not make much sense considering the state just finished widening US 17 a few years ago.

Also, US 19 from Crystal River to the GA state line runs at only 20% capacity (per the recent posted article)

Build a couple of bypasses around Perry and Chiefland, and it can be at least 65 MPH the whole way.  Maybe a local .25 quarter cent sales tax can help pay for it, if FDOT can't find the money.

Why can't FDOT build toll roads in places that actually need toll roads?

Quote from: RoadPelican on September 27, 2020, 10:14:20 AM
There was a proposed toll road about 15-20 years ago that would do a lot of good for Florida, it would run from Fort Pierce to Tampa and give Central Florida a viable needed alternate to I-4, but I think that one is off the agenda. (I think the name might be Heartland Pkwy)

The SW proposal from Lakeland to Fort Myers does not make much sense considering the state just finished widening US 17 a few years ago.

Also, US 19 from Crystal River to the GA state line runs at only 20% capacity (per the recent posted article)

Build a couple of bypasses around Perry and Chiefland, and it can be at least 65 MPH the whole way.  Maybe a local .25 quarter cent sales tax can help pay for it, if FDOT can't find the money.

Why can't FDOT build toll roads in places that actually need toll roads?

I think some of the issues have to do with 1.  Hurricane exit routes and 2.  Reducing traffic on I-75, I-4, and I-95.  My in-laws have a place down in Ft. Myers, and they had been using I-75 on their trip from Indiana, but most recently had moved over to I-65 and then coming down through Dothan and then US 19 through Tampa.  They said that the US 19 drive is a good one without too much traffic (which they would move over to the Suncoast north of Tampa).  I think that some people get scared of traffic (stop and start) when they see a 4-lane go into metro area, but an interstate (think I-65 reroute) or a toll road expressway redo for the road would get some of that I-75 traffic moved over.

^

At minimum, the Suncoast Pkwy should be extended north to seamless tie back into US-19 in a rural area, then town bypasses built along the rest of the corridor to create a free-flowing 65 mph expressway.

https://www.theledger.com/story/news/state/2020/10/21/florida-department-transportation-official-says-not-building-controversial-toll-roads-remains-possib/6005082002/

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 27, 2020, 06:59:21 PM
^

At minimum, the Suncoast Pkwy should be extended north to seamless tie back into US-19 in a rural area, then town bypasses built along the rest of the corridor to create a free-flowing 65 mph expressway.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see some variation on the above suggestion eventually implemented.  The tolled portion likely wouldn't include anything overlaying US 19; unless it were simply adding tolled lanes to an existing facility, converting a previously free 4-lane arterial to a toll road wouldn't be politically feasible.  Once somewhere around Perry, a toll facility either to Tallahassee or simply a junction with I-10 could conceivably be developed on a separate alignment. 

Quote from: Life in Paradise on September 27, 2020, 03:58:16 PM

Quote from: RoadPelican on September 27, 2020, 10:14:20 AM
There was a proposed toll road about 15-20 years ago that would do a lot of good for Florida, it would run from Fort Pierce to Tampa and give Central Florida a viable needed alternate to I-4, but I think that one is off the agenda. (I think the name might be Heartland Pkwy)

The SW proposal from Lakeland to Fort Myers does not make much sense considering the state just finished widening US 17 a few years ago.

Also, US 19 from Crystal River to the GA state line runs at only 20% capacity (per the recent posted article)

Build a couple of bypasses around Perry and Chiefland, and it can be at least 65 MPH the whole way.  Maybe a local .25 quarter cent sales tax can help pay for it, if FDOT can't find the money.

Why can't FDOT build toll roads in places that actually need toll roads?

I think some of the issues have to do with 1.  Hurricane exit routes and 2.  Reducing traffic on I-75, I-4, and I-95.  My in-laws have a place down in Ft. Myers, and they had been using I-75 on their trip from Indiana, but most recently had moved over to I-65 and then coming down through Dothan and then US 19 through Tampa.  They said that the US 19 drive is a good one without too much traffic (which they would move over to the Suncoast north of Tampa).  I think that some people get scared of traffic (stop and start) when they see a 4-lane go into metro area, but an interstate (think I-65 reroute) or a toll road expressway redo for the road would get some of that I-75 traffic moved over.

Agreed on #1. Excess capacity to support hurricane routing, while expensive, has value. Charge tolls for daily use, waive tolls for evacuation use.
Agreed on #2. Safety on I-75 between Lake City and Ocala has been an ongoing issue. While the periodic smoke event causes pileups (like snow whiteouts cause them in the north). The volume of traffic makes it more susceptible to accidents.

There are only 3 high capacity routes for Florida traffic. (10, 95 and 75)

While some of this is supplemented by lesser secondary routes (98, 41, 17, 1, 301)

Of the 3 high capacity routes, only 2 support north-south traffic. That means a majority of south Florida traffic coming from the midwest get channeled to I-75.

An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

Quote from: sparker on October 22, 2020, 02:14:52 PM

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 27, 2020, 06:59:21 PM
^

At minimum, the Suncoast Pkwy should be extended north to seamless tie back into US-19 in a rural area, then town bypasses built along the rest of the corridor to create a free-flowing 65 mph expressway.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see some variation on the above suggestion eventually implemented.  The tolled portion likely wouldn't include anything overlaying US 19; unless it were simply adding tolled lanes to an existing facility, converting a previously free 4-lane arterial to a toll road wouldn't be politically feasible.  Once somewhere around Perry, a toll facility either to Tallahassee or simply a junction with I-10 could conceivably be developed on a separate alignment.

they could do the Texas method and add one way service roads that are free.

 

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 22, 2020, 06:14:07 PM

Quote from: sparker on October 22, 2020, 02:14:52 PM

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 27, 2020, 06:59:21 PM
^

At minimum, the Suncoast Pkwy should be extended north to seamless tie back into US-19 in a rural area, then town bypasses built along the rest of the corridor to create a free-flowing 65 mph expressway.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see some variation on the above suggestion eventually implemented.  The tolled portion likely wouldn't include anything overlaying US 19; unless it were simply adding tolled lanes to an existing facility, converting a previously free 4-lane arterial to a toll road wouldn't be politically feasible.  Once somewhere around Perry, a toll facility either to Tallahassee or simply a junction with I-10 could conceivably be developed on a separate alignment.

they could do the Texas method and add one way service roads that are free.

While that's technically a possibility (albeit a new concept within FL), one would be looking at a 90+ mile stretch of quadruple carriageways along US 19, which itself was carved out of the adjacent swamp after the now-gone parallel RR gave up the ghost, allowing room for a second carriageway for the 4-lane current facility.  I'd thing FDOT would look at what would be required to double that width and simply upgrade what's on the ground right now -- with town bypasses as necessary -- and connect any toll facilities to it while still on the solid ground (not easy to come by in that part of the state) before and past the swampy section.  And there new terrain alignments would obviate the need to plow under existing roadside businesses and residences, which makes any developmental process, toll or free, much more publicly palatable.

^

Texas at one point proposed constructing Interstate 69 with the upgraded rural segments being free, then tolls on the bypasses. Could do a similar concept.

They've changed course and now the whole facility will be toll free.

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 23, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
^

Texas at one point proposed constructing Interstate 69 with the upgraded rural segments being free, then tolls on the bypasses. Could do a similar concept.

They've changed course and now the whole facility will be toll free.

It's doubtful that such a system would, politically, fly in FL.  So far all the toll facilities in the state have been new-terrain types, with "shunpiking" potential over existing adjacent/parallel facilities with an existing "track record" for local service.  To "nickel-and-dime" FL drivers with tolled bypasses every few miles would likely be considered poor form -- requiring drivers to exit the freeway on a regular basis to avoid being subjected to tolls.  Frankly, the TX model cited above is something of a disjointed approach, no doubt prompted by the spate of funding shortfalls stemming from the recession a decade ago -- and DOT's taking a stab at coming up with "innovative" ways to secure funding -- many of which were realistically non-starters.  There's a number of reasons why these approaches never gained traction -- a peer review or two would cull down quite a few of those concepts; some quick ad hoc polling would dispose of some more.  Things that draw a "WTF" reaction from one's cohorts or a similar response from the driving public usually end up buried in a filing cabinet or even given the shredder treatment. 

In the case of TX, when the abortive "Trans-Texas" corridor concept included shoehorning the I-69 project into its folds, several tolling options were explored, with none of them being deemed practical or even feasible; the whole cross-state "master plan" eventually collapsed under its own weight.  In FL, the toll roads seem to hold a particular place within the entire transportation system -- always "add-on" rather than straight replacement facilities, intended to address localized congestion and/or connectivity needs while decidedly keeping the deployment costs within the realm of user fees rather than broadly across the general public, like "free facility" projects.   The Suncoast concept as an artery extending north from Tampa-St. Pete likely reaches its practical limitations somewhere around Lake Rousseau; at that point it either becomes a swamp-bound new-terrain facility that would probably never recoup its construction costs, or it simply segues onto a US 19-based freeway until a point (again likely around Perry) where a stand-alone toll facility again falls within the feasible/practical category.     
 

Quote from: sparker on October 24, 2020, 07:56:25 AM

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 23, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
^

Texas at one point proposed constructing Interstate 69 with the upgraded rural segments being free, then tolls on the bypasses. Could do a similar concept.

They've changed course and now the whole facility will be toll free.

It's doubtful that such a system would, politically, fly in FL.  So far all the toll facilities in the state have been new-terrain types, with "shunpiking" potential over existing adjacent/parallel facilities with an existing "track record" for local service.  To "nickel-and-dime" FL drivers with tolled bypasses every few miles would likely be considered poor form -- requiring drivers to exit the freeway on a regular basis to avoid being subjected to tolls.  Frankly, the TX model cited above is something of a disjointed approach, no doubt prompted by the spate of funding shortfalls stemming from the recession a decade ago -- and DOT's taking a stab at coming up with "innovative" ways to secure funding -- many of which were realistically non-starters.  There's a number of reasons why these approaches never gained traction -- a peer review or two would cull down quite a few of those concepts; some quick ad hoc polling would dispose of some more.  Things that draw a "WTF" reaction from one's cohorts or a similar response from the driving public usually end up buried in a filing cabinet or even given the shredder treatment. 

In the case of TX, when the abortive "Trans-Texas" corridor concept included shoehorning the I-69 project into its folds, several tolling options were explored, with none of them being deemed practical or even feasible; the whole cross-state "master plan" eventually collapsed under its own weight.  In FL, the toll roads seem to hold a particular place within the entire transportation system -- always "add-on" rather than straight replacement facilities, intended to address localized congestion and/or connectivity needs while decidedly keeping the deployment costs within the realm of user fees rather than broadly across the general public, like "free facility" projects.   The Suncoast concept as an artery extending north from Tampa-St. Pete likely reaches its practical limitations somewhere around Lake Rousseau; at that point it either becomes a swamp-bound new-terrain facility that would probably never recoup its construction costs, or it simply segues onto a US 19-based freeway until a point (again likely around Perry) where a stand-alone toll facility again falls within the feasible/practical category.     

FL would never 'nickel and dime' drivers.  Just look at the Shingle Creek "toll bridge" on Osceola Parkway or the Poinciana on ramps. Na...never.

Quote from: edwaleni on October 25, 2020, 12:00:10 AM

Quote from: sparker on October 24, 2020, 07:56:25 AM

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 23, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
^

Texas at one point proposed constructing Interstate 69 with the upgraded rural segments being free, then tolls on the bypasses. Could do a similar concept.

They've changed course and now the whole facility will be toll free.

It's doubtful that such a system would, politically, fly in FL.  So far all the toll facilities in the state have been new-terrain types, with "shunpiking" potential over existing adjacent/parallel facilities with an existing "track record" for local service.  To "nickel-and-dime" FL drivers with tolled bypasses every few miles would likely be considered poor form -- requiring drivers to exit the freeway on a regular basis to avoid being subjected to tolls.  Frankly, the TX model cited above is something of a disjointed approach, no doubt prompted by the spate of funding shortfalls stemming from the recession a decade ago -- and DOT's taking a stab at coming up with "innovative" ways to secure funding -- many of which were realistically non-starters.  There's a number of reasons why these approaches never gained traction -- a peer review or two would cull down quite a few of those concepts; some quick ad hoc polling would dispose of some more.  Things that draw a "WTF" reaction from one's cohorts or a similar response from the driving public usually end up buried in a filing cabinet or even given the shredder treatment. 

In the case of TX, when the abortive "Trans-Texas" corridor concept included shoehorning the I-69 project into its folds, several tolling options were explored, with none of them being deemed practical or even feasible; the whole cross-state "master plan" eventually collapsed under its own weight.  In FL, the toll roads seem to hold a particular place within the entire transportation system -- always "add-on" rather than straight replacement facilities, intended to address localized congestion and/or connectivity needs while decidedly keeping the deployment costs within the realm of user fees rather than broadly across the general public, like "free facility" projects.   The Suncoast concept as an artery extending north from Tampa-St. Pete likely reaches its practical limitations somewhere around Lake Rousseau; at that point it either becomes a swamp-bound new-terrain facility that would probably never recoup its construction costs, or it simply segues onto a US 19-based freeway until a point (again likely around Perry) where a stand-alone toll facility again falls within the feasible/practical category.     

FL would never 'nickel and dime' drivers.  Just look at the Shingle Creek "toll bridge" on Osceola Parkway or the Poinciana on ramps. Na...never.

Goldenrod Extension anyone?

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Hopefully, in a few years, opinions might change in Alabama, and they might get some funding going to upgrade US231 down from Montgomery.  The only other way would be to go down the US27 corridor in western Georgia, but that would be much more expensive, since more interstate would be needed.

Quote from: Life in Paradise on December 23, 2020, 03:16:57 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Hopefully, in a few years, opinions might change in Alabama, and they might get some funding going to upgrade US231 down from Montgomery.  The only other way would be to go down the US27 corridor in western Georgia, but that would be much more expensive, since more interstate would be needed.

Much of US 27 has seen improvement under the GRIP program; pretty much the entire route except for the portion paralleling I-185 has been brought out to 4 lanes, with controlled/no private access bypasses of the larger towns.  While it wouldn't be cheap by any means, bringing that corridor up to Interstate standards wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.  If it could connect Tallahassee with Columbus, the goal of relieving I-75 south of Atlanta would be reached; if an outer N-S relief route for Atlanta itself were to be considered, then doing the entire corridor north to Chattanooga would fulfill that conceptualization.

Wikipedia's Interstate 185 (Georgia) page says this (see Future section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_185_(Georgia). So extending 185 is a no-go. Personally, I'd extend 185 south to Interstate 10, and north to connect with Interstate 75 somewhere in northern Georgia. That would make it a decent bypass of Atlanta (in a Fictional Highways sense).

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Wikipedia's Interstate 185 (Georgia) page says this (see Future section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_185_(Georgia). So extending 185 is a no-go. Personally, I'd extend 185 south to Interstate 10, and north to connect with Interstate 75 somewhere in northern Georgia. That would make it a decent bypass of Atlanta (in a Fictional Highways sense).

Or (while talking somewhat fictional) extend I-77 south from Columbia or Augusta to I-10/I-75/Suncoast extension to provide a more direct route to the west coast of Florida instead of the I-26/I-95/I-4 (or I-10/US 301) jog.

Quote from: VTGoose on December 24, 2020, 11:41:00 AM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Wikipedia's Interstate 185 (Georgia) page says this (see Future section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_185_(Georgia). So extending 185 is a no-go. Personally, I'd extend 185 south to Interstate 10, and north to connect with Interstate 75 somewhere in northern Georgia. That would make it a decent bypass of Atlanta (in a Fictional Highways sense).

Or (while talking somewhat fictional) extend I-77 south from Columbia or Augusta to I-10/I-75/Suncoast extension to provide a more direct route to the west coast of Florida instead of the I-26/I-95/I-4 (or I-10/US 301) jog.

The 78k plan included this corridor, so it's not entirely fictional. However, it doesn't include I-77. I was actually looking for what I think is froggie's 78k map that labels each segment 2, 4, or 6+ lanes, and this segment is one of the few 2-lane corridors east of the Mississippi, but I can't find it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2Fintreg6.jpg&hash=24185618335ced71c306316e4e2e1e67727218de)

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Alabama with 65 got like North Carolina with 40 and couldnt see the trees for the woods.......Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa-Miami should have been 65, with 75 taking over the FL Turnpike from Wildwood to Kissimmee, then along US-27 to Miami. Extend 85 to Mobile

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on December 24, 2020, 05:12:29 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Alabama with 65 got like North Carolina with 40 and couldnt see the trees for the woods.......Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa-Miami should have been 65, with 75 taking over the FL Turnpike from Wildwood to Kissimmee, then along US-27 to Miami. Extend 85 to Mobile

It's not their fault; it's the fault of changing population patterns. New Orleans and Mobile have both lost population since the 1960s, while Florida, including Tallahassee, has grown significantly.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Wikipedia's Interstate 185 (Georgia) page says this (see Future section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_185_(Georgia). So extending 185 is a no-go. Personally, I'd extend 185 south to Interstate 10, and north to connect with Interstate 75 somewhere in northern Georgia. That would make it a decent bypass of Atlanta (in a Fictional Highways sense).

The study that dismissed the Albany/US 19 plan was 11 years ago; since then the GRIP program has deployed bypasses around smaller towns, particularly along US 27 -- so it looks like a case of a state planning agency not "meshing" with the goals and workings of another.   It has appeared that some GRIP improvements largely stick to the rural segments of corridors leaving the in-town segments as is; this doesn't appear to be the case with US 27 from Bainbridge to Cusseta; pretty much every significant town has seen a controlled-access bypass.  Nevertheless, elevation to full Interstate standards may be a bridge too far for some time; while several Atlanta "relief routes" have been proposed over the years (many utilizing GRIP corridors), the critical mass where such a facility (or series thereof) becomes a necessity has yet to be reached.  10-15 years down the line, something along that order might well occur -- we'll all just have to wait and see. 

Quote from: 1 on December 24, 2020, 05:59:49 PM

Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on December 24, 2020, 05:12:29 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Alabama with 65 got like North Carolina with 40 and couldnt see the trees for the woods.......Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa-Miami should have been 65, with 75 taking over the FL Turnpike from Wildwood to Kissimmee, then along US-27 to Miami. Extend 85 to Mobile

It's not their fault; it's the fault of changing population patterns. New Orleans and Mobile have both lost population since the 1960s, while Florida, including Tallahassee, has grown significantly.

Though New Orleans may have lost population it still sees high demand and I suspect the daytime population of the city is higher than its ever been due to increased tourism. Not sure about Mobile. This presents problems but solvable none the less. I always think of Louisiana being one of the states worst off in terms of their infrastructure and how to fund expansion and preservation. If Louisiana doesn't do something fast, within the decade, I suspect they are going to find themselves in a VERY bad situation, more so than any other state.

New Orleans has always proven surprisingly resilient -- not only over the past couple of decades, but over the past couple of centuries.  No matter what natural disasters come its way, people seem to still think a lot of money is to be made at its location one way or the other, despite the hurricanes...

I personally love New Orleans. It's one of my favorite cities. They just need to figure out how to widen I-10 through the city.

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 25, 2020, 11:53:59 AM
I personally love New Orleans. It's one of my favorite cities. They just need to figure out how to widen I-10 through the city.

It's unlikely, considering the locally-initiated drumbeat for teardown, that I-10 will see any widening efforts in the near future.  It's pretty much a given that I-610 is there to shunt traffic to and from each end of town to the other in order to avoid the city center (and the 90-degree alignment shift on I-10).  And, of course, for really long-range bypassing, there's I-12!  What the I-10 alignment does adequately is funnel tourist traffic to the city center from each end -- although some local activists certainly don't see that as a benefit that outweighs the physical presence of the freeway.  N.O. has always been high on my own "must stop over" list when traveling cross-country; IMO the present freeway configuration is adequate, especially considering the population decrease since 2005.  The only thing that needs attention in that respect is the completion of I-49 over on the west bank.     

Quote from: 1 on December 24, 2020, 12:45:33 PM

Quote from: VTGoose on December 24, 2020, 11:41:00 AM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 23, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Wikipedia's Interstate 185 (Georgia) page says this (see Future section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_185_(Georgia). So extending 185 is a no-go. Personally, I'd extend 185 south to Interstate 10, and north to connect with Interstate 75 somewhere in northern Georgia. That would make it a decent bypass of Atlanta (in a Fictional Highways sense).

Or (while talking somewhat fictional) extend I-77 south from Columbia or Augusta to I-10/I-75/Suncoast extension to provide a more direct route to the west coast of Florida instead of the I-26/I-95/I-4 (or I-10/US 301) jog.

The 78k plan included this corridor, so it's not entirely fictional. However, it doesn't include I-77. I was actually looking for what I think is froggie's 78k map that labels each segment 2, 4, or 6+ lanes, and this segment is one of the few 2-lane corridors east of the Mississippi, but I can't find it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2Fintreg6.jpg&hash=24185618335ced71c306316e4e2e1e67727218de)

Responding a bit late here, but this topic (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19877.0) is probably the one you were looking for.  This also wasn't the full 78.8K system...it was a combination of the 48.3K system plus the real-life Interstate system as it existed ca. 2015.

Quote from: sparker on December 25, 2020, 03:04:11 PM

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 25, 2020, 11:53:59 AM
I personally love New Orleans. It's one of my favorite cities. They just need to figure out how to widen I-10 through the city.

It's unlikely, considering the locally-initiated drumbeat for teardown, that I-10 will see any widening efforts in the near future.  It's pretty much a given that I-610 is there to shunt traffic to and from each end of town to the other in order to avoid the city center (and the 90-degree alignment shift on I-10).  And, of course, for really long-range bypassing, there's I-12!  What the I-10 alignment does adequately is funnel tourist traffic to the city center from each end -- although some local activists certainly don't see that as a benefit that outweighs the physical presence of the freeway.  N.O. has always been high on my own "must stop over" list when traveling cross-country; IMO the present freeway configuration is adequate, especially considering the population decrease since 2005.  The only thing that needs attention in that respect is the completion of I-49 over on the west bank.   

Yeah this is true. I'm just hoping at this point they don't decide to tear the thing down. How much life does she have left in her? This freeway segment is showing its age and will need replacement soon even if no new lanes.

I thought the Interstate 10 teardown proposal in New Orleans, first initiated in 2010, had died out in the decade since then. I'm not sure whether or not the viaduct will be reconstructed in the future, although I doubt it will be expanded. I would have advocated replacing the Claiborne Expressway with a deep bored tunnel, but with the expense of building such a tunnel, and the fact that New Orleans was completely flooded during 2005's Hurricane Katrina, a tunnel is probably not an option.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 12, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
I thought the Interstate 10 teardown proposal in New Orleans, first initiated in 2010, had died out in the decade since then. I'm not sure whether or not the viaduct will be reconstructed in the future, although I doubt it will be expanded. I would have advocated replacing the Claiborne Expressway with a deep bored tunnel, but with the expense of building such a tunnel, and the fact that New Orleans was completely flooded during 2005's Hurricane Katrina, a tunnel is probably not an option.

With NO's water table being just below the surface, a sunken tunnel is likely a non-starter.  If the viaduct is indeed rebuilt after the service life of the present structure (given the regional humidity, it's a wonder it hasn't deteriorated to a greater degree by now), it'll likely be as physically small as feasible to placate local critics -- probably no more than 6 lanes/minimal shoulders + slips as needed.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a full (but hopefully temporary!) "teardown" of the existing I-10 structure and replacement with a more compact facility -- with through traffic routed over I-610 (which will be a logistical nightmare) in the interim.

Quote from: sparker on January 12, 2021, 06:25:52 PM

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 12, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
I thought the Interstate 10 teardown proposal in New Orleans, first initiated in 2010, had died out in the decade since then. I'm not sure whether or not the viaduct will be reconstructed in the future, although I doubt it will be expanded. I would have advocated replacing the Claiborne Expressway with a deep bored tunnel, but with the expense of building such a tunnel, and the fact that New Orleans was completely flooded during 2005's Hurricane Katrina, a tunnel is probably not an option.

With NO's water table being just below the surface, a sunken tunnel is likely a non-starter.  If the viaduct is indeed rebuilt after the service life of the present structure (given the regional humidity, it's a wonder it hasn't deteriorated to a greater degree by now), it'll likely be as physically small as feasible to placate local critics -- probably no more than 6 lanes/minimal shoulders + slips as needed.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a full (but hopefully temporary!) "teardown" of the existing I-10 structure and replacement with a more compact facility -- with through traffic routed over I-610 (which will be a logistical nightmare) in the interim.

There would be no doubt in my mind that reconstruction of the I-10 viaduct would require a complete closure in order to rebuild it, especially since I-610 and the western leg of I-10 is a viable detour route.

It would be very nice if they expanded it to 10-12 lanes. But we'll see. At this point I just hope it gets rebuilt even if just six lanes.

Quote from: Life in Paradise on December 23, 2020, 03:16:57 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Hopefully, in a few years, opinions might change in Alabama, and they might get some funding going to upgrade US231 down from Montgomery.  The only other way would be to go down the US27 corridor in western Georgia, but that would be much more expensive, since more interstate would be needed.

Alabama DOT has had public hearings on an interstate grade between Montgomery and Marianna, FL.  Unfortunately it turned into a Hatfield-McCoy brawl between Enterprise and Dothan with Fort Rucker used as the pawn. Fort Rucker sits in between and the Feds own a lot of vacant land around it. With both sides refusing to give way it was shelved. US-231 is 4 lane all the way with many segments having a center left turn lane instead of a median. But the current routing in Dothan is foobar. The US 231-431 bypass ring of the city may have worked in 1966, but now it is a congested ring of strip malls, retail  and fast food with all of the traffic lights to boot. I got stuck in that Dothan ring once. Still beats going through Atlanta, but its not always smooth sailing.

Quote from: edwaleni on January 15, 2021, 10:22:57 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on December 23, 2020, 03:16:57 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Hopefully, in a few years, opinions might change in Alabama, and they might get some funding going to upgrade US231 down from Montgomery.  The only other way would be to go down the US27 corridor in western Georgia, but that would be much more expensive, since more interstate would be needed.

Alabama DOT has had public hearings on an interstate grade between Montgomery and Marianna, FL.  Unfortunately it turned into a Hatfield-McCoy brawl between Enterprise and Dothan with Fort Rucker used as the pawn. Fort Rucker sits in between and the Feds own a lot of vacant land around it. With both sides refusing to give way it was shelved. US-231 is 4 lane all the way with many segments having a center left turn lane instead of a median. But the current routing in Dothan is foobar. The US 231-431 bypass ring of the city may have worked in 1966, but now it is a congested ring of strip malls, retail  and fast food with all of the traffic lights to boot. I got stuck in that Dothan ring once. Still beats going through Atlanta, but its not always smooth sailing.

I suppose in an ideal world you build an elevated freeway on the Ross Clark Circle in Dothan AL with Frontage roads ie something similar to what you see in Texas. That way you could have your freeway and still support the local business. Unless there some huge change in the way Alabama taxes and builds roads I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
US 231 south of Dothan is a nice and fast rural expressway that gets you to I 10 quickly . I would like to see Alabama and Florida work together to widen FL sr 79 north of I 10 and Alabama 167 from the state line to Troy. That would create a nice new four lane corridor between Troy, Enterprise  down to I 10 and further to the Gulf Coast Beaches.

Quote from: Jaxrunner on January 15, 2021, 05:09:52 PM

Quote from: edwaleni on January 15, 2021, 10:22:57 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on December 23, 2020, 03:16:57 PM

Quote from: codyg1985 on December 23, 2020, 11:09:01 AM

Quote from: edwaleni on October 22, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
An alternate capacity that avoids Atlanta would be preferable, a route south from Montgomery AL to the gulf coast would help take the pressure off I-75.

A Montgomery-Tallahassee-Tampa corridor would indeed be a nice relief for I-75 traffic. I do wish Alabama would get on board with such a proposal, but Alabama doesn't seem t have the appetite to build many new freeway corridors anymore, except for the Birmingham Northern Beltline. Widening I-65 north of Montgomery would need to be in the cards too.

Hopefully, in a few years, opinions might change in Alabama, and they might get some funding going to upgrade US231 down from Montgomery.  The only other way would be to go down the US27 corridor in western Georgia, but that would be much more expensive, since more interstate would be needed.

Alabama DOT has had public hearings on an interstate grade between Montgomery and Marianna, FL.  Unfortunately it turned into a Hatfield-McCoy brawl between Enterprise and Dothan with Fort Rucker used as the pawn. Fort Rucker sits in between and the Feds own a lot of vacant land around it. With both sides refusing to give way it was shelved. US-231 is 4 lane all the way with many segments having a center left turn lane instead of a median. But the current routing in Dothan is foobar. The US 231-431 bypass ring of the city may have worked in 1966, but now it is a congested ring of strip malls, retail  and fast food with all of the traffic lights to boot. I got stuck in that Dothan ring once. Still beats going through Atlanta, but its not always smooth sailing.

I suppose in an ideal world you build an elevated freeway on the Ross Clark Circle in Dothan AL with Frontage roads ie something similar to what you see in Texas. That way you could have your freeway and still support the local business. Unless there some huge change in the way Alabama taxes and builds roads I don't see that happening in my lifetime.
US 231 south of Dothan is a nice and fast rural expressway that gets you to I 10 quickly . I would like to see Alabama and Florida work together to widen FL sr 79 north of I 10 and Alabama 167 from the state line to Troy. That would create a nice new four lane corridor between Troy, Enterprise  down to I 10 and further to the Gulf Coast Beaches.

The most likely way Alabama would approach said freeway option (if they do) is to do it like Memorial Parkway or AL-255 north of US-72. 4 lane freeway with one way frontage roads.

I'll say this again, they need to at least purchase the ROW for these projects so their paths don't get eaten up by development.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2021/03/03/floridas-toll-road-projects-a-fiscal-cliff-in-serious-trouble-lawmakers-say/

Well this sucks, it seems this entire plan is "shelved"  as we like to say. Sprawl will continue and land will be eaten up. Should have compromised and at least purchased ROW.

https://www.equipmentworld.com/business/article/15066328/controversial-florida-toll-road-projects-killed