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Author Topic: North Carolina  (Read 854236 times)

tolbs17

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4600 on: January 15, 2022, 04:18:07 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4601 on: January 16, 2022, 10:24:15 AM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4602 on: January 16, 2022, 06:28:11 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
I'm not saying there's no problem; if people seems confused then maybe additional signage is needed. However, it's not true that there's only one advance sign for I-540. There is the sign at the Page Road exit, which is the 1/2 mile advance position. On the east side of Page Road, after the interchange, there's a giant sign over the right lane (which will exit to 540). This is about 1/4 mile from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/a7k5tRu4wzGmp53D9
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CanesFan27

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4603 on: January 16, 2022, 07:02:12 PM »

I take a look at the new signage changes for 885 and 540 - specifically the East/East 540 change at Interstate 40 and the possible motorist confusion as a result.

"The changes aren't anything new - as this is the same part of the state that had different routes on and off the Beltline during the 1980s/90s, Inner/Outer Beltline for a time, I-540 was North/South for a bit and then went entirely East/West, NC 540 was signed as Interstate 540 and changed right before it opened, and let's not forget I-495 to I-87 along US 64 in Eastern Wake County.  Speaking of the Inner/Outer concept - why not go back to it for 540.  Yes, it didn't work for the Beltline, but it does work with I-485 in Charlotte."

https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/01/route-and-directional-changes-coming-to.html


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tolbs17

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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4605 on: January 16, 2022, 09:11:51 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
I'm not saying there's no problem; if people seems confused then maybe additional signage is needed. However, it's not true that there's only one advance sign for I-540. There is the sign at the Page Road exit, which is the 1/2 mile advance position. On the east side of Page Road, after the interchange, there's a giant sign over the right lane (which will exit to 540). This is about 1/4 mile from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/a7k5tRu4wzGmp53D9

I interpreted the one comment to mean there are additional signs in the plans, but there aren't any new signs planned in addition to the ones that are already there.

I believe the other comment is saying there needs to be a sign for I-540 more than 1/2 a mile before the interchange. It's not so much confusion as not enough warning. Someone in the left lane at the 1/2 mile sign at Page Rd. has about 30 seconds to make three lane changes in order to exit. Depending on traffic, that is easier said than done.

Why aren't the exit "list" signs like the ones found in the median of I-440 more common? That would be helpful on I-40 where there are several interchanges in close proximity.

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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4606 on: January 17, 2022, 12:24:13 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
I'm not saying there's no problem; if people seems confused then maybe additional signage is needed. However, it's not true that there's only one advance sign for I-540. There is the sign at the Page Road exit, which is the 1/2 mile advance position. On the east side of Page Road, after the interchange, there's a giant sign over the right lane (which will exit to 540). This is about 1/4 mile from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/a7k5tRu4wzGmp53D9

I interpreted the one comment to mean there are additional signs in the plans, but there aren't any new signs planned in addition to the ones that are already there.

I believe the other comment is saying there needs to be a sign for I-540 more than 1/2 a mile before the interchange. It's not so much confusion as not enough warning. Someone in the left lane at the 1/2 mile sign at Page Rd. has about 30 seconds to make three lane changes in order to exit. Depending on traffic, that is easier said than done.

Why aren't the exit "list" signs like the ones found in the median of I-440 more common? That would be helpful on I-40 where there are several interchanges in close proximity.


You should suggest that on NCDOT's website. They'll likely respond with info on why or why not that is being implemented.
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4607 on: January 17, 2022, 06:22:52 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
I'm not saying there's no problem; if people seems confused then maybe additional signage is needed. However, it's not true that there's only one advance sign for I-540. There is the sign at the Page Road exit, which is the 1/2 mile advance position. On the east side of Page Road, after the interchange, there's a giant sign over the right lane (which will exit to 540). This is about 1/4 mile from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/a7k5tRu4wzGmp53D9

I interpreted the one comment to mean there are additional signs in the plans, but there aren't any new signs planned in addition to the ones that are already there.

I believe the other comment is saying there needs to be a sign for I-540 more than 1/2 a mile before the interchange. It's not so much confusion as not enough warning. Someone in the left lane at the 1/2 mile sign at Page Rd. has about 30 seconds to make three lane changes in order to exit. Depending on traffic, that is easier said than done.

Why aren't the exit "list" signs like the ones found in the median of I-440 more common? That would be helpful on I-40 where there are several interchanges in close proximity.
Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

It's not easy to find a place for a list sign; it would need to be after the merge from Future I-885 but that puts it close to the Davis Drive exit. The series of closely spaced exits in Research Triangle Park really makes signage design a challenge.
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tolbs17

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4608 on: January 17, 2022, 06:36:50 PM »

on the topic of signs in the Triangle, there really needs to be another advance sign for the 540 interchange on 40 Eastbound. Currently there is only one at the 1/2 mile advance position. I routinely see cars cutting across 2+ lanes to get onto 540. The single sign does not give enough notice of the upcoming interchange.
did you read the signage plans?

I don't see any additional signs on I-40 eastbound for I-540.
I'm not saying there's no problem; if people seems confused then maybe additional signage is needed. However, it's not true that there's only one advance sign for I-540. There is the sign at the Page Road exit, which is the 1/2 mile advance position. On the east side of Page Road, after the interchange, there's a giant sign over the right lane (which will exit to 540). This is about 1/4 mile from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/a7k5tRu4wzGmp53D9

I interpreted the one comment to mean there are additional signs in the plans, but there aren't any new signs planned in addition to the ones that are already there.

I believe the other comment is saying there needs to be a sign for I-540 more than 1/2 a mile before the interchange. It's not so much confusion as not enough warning. Someone in the left lane at the 1/2 mile sign at Page Rd. has about 30 seconds to make three lane changes in order to exit. Depending on traffic, that is easier said than done.

Why aren't the exit "list" signs like the ones found in the median of I-440 more common? That would be helpful on I-40 where there are several interchanges in close proximity.
Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

It's not easy to find a place for a list sign; it would need to be after the merge from Future I-885 but that puts it close to the Davis Drive exit. The series of closely spaced exits in Research Triangle Park really makes signage design a challenge.
Although they have presented plans to fix the closely spaced exits.

https://nmcdn.io/e186d21f8c7946a19faed23c3da2f0da/8bfec28a290449a7b10eb1fee3a0e264/files/programs-studies/hot-spots/NC_55_Bypass/FINAL_I-40-540_CAMPO_Report_111417.pdf
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4609 on: January 17, 2022, 07:28:47 PM »

Braiding the Davis Drive and Miami Boulevard ramps, as this report suggests, would be tremendous help in improving traffic in RTP. But I havenít seen any evidence that NCDOT is going to act on this. Am I right?
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tolbs17

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4610 on: January 17, 2022, 07:36:26 PM »

Braiding the Davis Drive and Miami Boulevard ramps, as this report suggests, would be tremendous help in improving traffic in RTP. But I havenít seen any evidence that NCDOT is going to act on this. Am I right?
As of right now, no. But it could be part of the managed lanes project.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4611 on: January 18, 2022, 07:45:37 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.
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tolbs17

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4612 on: January 19, 2022, 01:41:24 AM »

Overhead signs must be no lower than 17 feet and it seems like the one with all the TO's (TO 70, TO 1, TO 64) violated that. So that's why they are removing all of those.
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4613 on: January 19, 2022, 01:46:19 AM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4614 on: January 19, 2022, 01:51:39 AM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.
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wriddle082

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4615 on: January 19, 2022, 02:04:21 AM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

On I-85 in Charlotte, approaching I-77 from either direction, the first guide signage occurs at either 1 mile or 3/4 mile, and on northbound 85 the guide signs list US 21 first!

I think itís an appropriate metaphor about how NCDOT feels about I-77 versus how they feel about I-85, as well as the mere existence of the I-77 Express Lanes and the horrible stretch b/w I-485 on the south end and I-277 Belk freeway.
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jdunlop

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4616 on: January 19, 2022, 12:53:35 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

For the most part, interchanges are not signed in ahead of the previous interchange.  The first sign is typically on the same sign structure as the exit sign for the previous interchange.  For instance, the sign on I-40 east is on the same structure as the exit sign for Page Road.  I asked about providing more advanced warning, and the answer was that they thought that signing for an interchange ahead of a previous interchange would be confusing.  (Say, signing for I-540 at Miami Blvd might convince some drivers that they need to exit at Page Road.  That's the thought process; I don't necessarily agree with that in all locations.  But I'm not in Signing.)  It has nothing to do with the Durham Freeway on-ramp.  There's sufficient room to weave over from the left to the right in those ~2.5 miles.

The I-40/85 EB split in Hillsborough works better because there's a couple of miles between the previous interchange and that split.  Not so for the I-40/I-85Bus. interchange in Greensboro (the older split.  The newer split isn't signed in advance of the previous interchange either, IIRC.)

Virginia does sign some splits in advance of previous interchanges; one I'm familiar with is the I-95/I-295 split north of Richmond.  A sign informing drivers of that split is ~5 miles ahead and at least one interchange in advance.  I don't recall a similar sign in NC, although there's some information on the multiple exit signs in the median on, say, US 64 or I-440.

What I didn't care for is when they changed the lane configuration of the split a few years ago, they didn't provide a lot of advance warning that the left lane was now an exit-only lane.  Had to make a last second maneuver.  (Making a lane continuity change after ~40 years needs some signage/warning.  Some of us are set in our ways!.)



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Mapmikey

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4617 on: January 19, 2022, 01:27:13 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

For the most part, interchanges are not signed in ahead of the previous interchange.  The first sign is typically on the same sign structure as the exit sign for the previous interchange.  For instance, the sign on I-40 east is on the same structure as the exit sign for Page Road.  I asked about providing more advanced warning, and the answer was that they thought that signing for an interchange ahead of a previous interchange would be confusing.  (Say, signing for I-540 at Miami Blvd might convince some drivers that they need to exit at Page Road.  That's the thought process; I don't necessarily agree with that in all locations.  But I'm not in Signing.)  It has nothing to do with the Durham Freeway on-ramp.  There's sufficient room to weave over from the left to the right in those ~2.5 miles.


NC examples:
US 1 NB Sanford - https://goo.gl/maps/QovcS9wkQ1iumhyJ6 - there is a full interchange between here and US 421 Bus

I-95 NB Dunn - https://goo.gl/maps/yyTGrQzJNtbtFzkx9 - there used to be BGS that said 'second exit'; this one is being changed where Pope Rd and US 421/NC 55 will be on one BGS;
the I-95 SB direction also had this and the 'second exit' thing made it to early GMSV - https://goo.gl/maps/3X4E8DgYng5xZ7Np6

I-26 EB in Hendersonville - https://goo.gl/maps/imcVqau8emZR62dQA
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jdunlop

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4618 on: January 20, 2022, 08:57:56 AM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

For the most part, interchanges are not signed in ahead of the previous interchange.  The first sign is typically on the same sign structure as the exit sign for the previous interchange.  For instance, the sign on I-40 east is on the same structure as the exit sign for Page Road.  I asked about providing more advanced warning, and the answer was that they thought that signing for an interchange ahead of a previous interchange would be confusing.  (Say, signing for I-540 at Miami Blvd might convince some drivers that they need to exit at Page Road.  That's the thought process; I don't necessarily agree with that in all locations.  But I'm not in Signing.)  It has nothing to do with the Durham Freeway on-ramp.  There's sufficient room to weave over from the left to the right in those ~2.5 miles.


NC examples:
US 1 NB Sanford - https://goo.gl/maps/QovcS9wkQ1iumhyJ6 - there is a full interchange between here and US 421 Bus

I-95 NB Dunn - https://goo.gl/maps/yyTGrQzJNtbtFzkx9 - there used to be BGS that said 'second exit'; this one is being changed where Pope Rd and US 421/NC 55 will be on one BGS;
the I-95 SB direction also had this and the 'second exit' thing made it to early GMSV - https://goo.gl/maps/3X4E8DgYng5xZ7Np6

I-26 EB in Hendersonville - https://goo.gl/maps/imcVqau8emZR62dQA

I figured there'd be some exceptions (hence the "for the most part..")  I note all three are side mounted, and the last two didn't have exit numbers; for the I_95 one, I'm pretty sure those two exits are being combined (unless the plans changed again from the last time I saw them) so they'll be on the same overhead sign.
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4619 on: January 20, 2022, 10:09:35 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

I meant to say I hope the "Y" shaped diagrammatic arrows were NOT removed upon adoption of the European "option" arrows were implemented.
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4620 on: January 20, 2022, 10:12:41 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

On I-85 in Charlotte, approaching I-77 from either direction, the first guide signage occurs at either 1 mile or 3/4 mile, and on northbound 85 the guide signs list US 21 first!

I think itís an appropriate metaphor about how NCDOT feels about I-77 versus how they feel about I-85, as well as the mere existence of the I-77 Express Lanes and the horrible stretch b/w I-485 on the south end and I-277 Belk freeway.

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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4621 on: January 20, 2022, 10:20:19 PM »

Backing up another half mile from Page Road (that is, about one mile from the I-540 exit) we have the Miami Boulevard exit. There must be some way to get an I-540 advance notice on this signage: https://goo.gl/maps/fkw3qgGWi2kUYraE8.

The bigger problem here is that the Durham Freeway has a left-hand onramp prior to Miami Boulevard.  Now that you've pointed out the lack of advance signs for I-540.  I'm wondering if NCDOT has intentionally omitted the advance signage to discourage movements from the Durham Freeway to the northern leg of I-540 (now it's simply I-540, as the southern leg has long been reposted as NC-540).  It is typical in North Carolina to give a lot of advance notification of an upcoming major interchange, at least 2 miles for arterials and usually 5 miles for freeways.  One of the main issues is when too much traffic crosses from the far left lanes to the far right lanes too soon (or vice versa, like the move on the Capital Beltway from the Cabin John to I-270), all of the traffic flow models predict the need for a flyover.  And that is not always the best solution.

I've never seen any 5 mile advance notice of an upcoming interchange in NC. But the one I always think of when Eastbound I-85/I-40 split apart approaching the Triangle. There's something grandiose about that interchange because over the years I had several people from Atlanta call me up saying they thought of me while passing the Raleigh exit off I-85..

I hope the diagramatic arrows were removed when the European style split signs became the norm a few years back.

On I-85 in Charlotte, approaching I-77 from either direction, the first guide signage occurs at either 1 mile or 3/4 mile, and on northbound 85 the guide signs list US 21 first!

I think itís an appropriate metaphor about how NCDOT feels about I-77 versus how they feel about I-85, as well as the mere existence of the I-77 Express Lanes and the horrible stretch b/w I-485 on the south end and I-277 Belk freeway.


No, I-77 isn't the ugly stepchild that's neglected.

It was the local (Albemarle office) NCDOT division's choice many years ago on whether to spend a huge amount of funding on completing I-485 as a full circle when using I-85 would have made it a loop like Raleigh's beltline uses I-40,

or using that funding to widen I-77 which is the #1 or #2 most heavily travelled freeway in the state.

They chose to use years and years of allocated funding on I-485. I-77 would have to wait for many years.

You have to remember they try to be fair with the funding and spread it thinly across the whole state. McCrory improved the way funding is divvyed out. Projects are now scored on how much benefit comes to the most people which steers more towards urban areas.
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VTGoose

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4622 on: January 21, 2022, 01:11:50 PM »


No, I-77 isn't the ugly stepchild that's neglected.

Quite the opposite. For as long as I have been traveling on I-77, it seems that there is always some section under construction. I wondered if there was something in the state constitution that required this almost continuous work.
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architect77

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4623 on: January 21, 2022, 06:27:59 PM »


No, I-77 isn't the ugly stepchild that's neglected.

Quite the opposite. For as long as I have been traveling on I-77, it seems that there is always some section under construction. I wondered if there was something in the state constitution that required this almost continuous work.


It does need more lanes though from teh SC line to at least where the HOV lanes begin. That will be a herculean task though involving land purchases and staging that will complicate and slow the rebuild. Probably $3-5 billion I would estimate.
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Mileage Mike

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #4624 on: January 21, 2022, 09:24:46 PM »

I don't think they "hate" I-77. The issue is that 77 mostly just serves the Charlotte Metro while 85 serves all the major metros in the state and is by far the most important highway in the state overall. It was also cheaper and easier to expand 85 rather than 77. The part specifically from the SC border to I-277 in Uptown Charlotte will be a project in scale and cost that NCDOT has never done before.
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