New Jersey

[jeffandnicole]

I wonder if we'll start seeing structure replacements on 287 in the next couple of years. Most everything north of 80 is from when it opened in 1993 (the Boonton to Mahwah missing section). From 80 southward to Exit 14 (at least SB) was replaced between 1994 and 1997 (mostly when they built the HOV lanes) and south of there in 1998-99 (replaced the experimental diagramatic signage and other random signage that was erected over the years). Plus there's 440, which got new signs in the early 90s, but they went on existing structures from when the road opened in the 70s with few exceptions. These have to be starting to near the end of their service lives.

Sign structure typically last quite a long time without incident. The structure being replaced are generally from the early 60's and 70's, and are mostly being replaced due to an issue with the materials used at that time.  Other structures that are being replaced have been hit and were probably already taken out of service.  I don't think I've seen any structures as new as the 1990's being replaced.

[roadman65]

I wonder if we'll start seeing structure replacements on 287 in the next couple of years. Most everything north of 80 is from when it opened in 1993 (the Boonton to Mahwah missing section). From 80 southward to Exit 14 (at least SB) was replaced between 1994 and 1997 (mostly when they built the HOV lanes) and south of there in 1998-99 (replaced the experimental diagramatic signage and other random signage that was erected over the years). Plus there's 440, which got new signs in the early 90s, but they went on existing structures from when the road opened in the 70s with few exceptions. These have to be starting to near the end of their service lives.

Sign structure typically last quite a long time without incident. The structure being replaced are generally from the early 60's and 70's, and are mostly being replaced due to an issue with the materials used at that time.  Other structures that are being replaced have been hit and were probably already taken out of service.  I don't think I've seen any structures as new as the 1990's being replaced.

Then keep in mind that I-295 had its structures between US 130 at Depford to NJ 38 in Moorestown in the early 80s to replace signs  the same age  as the ones north of NJ 38 that they kept and when I left in 1990 they were still there.  So it goes by what is at the time, as I have found NJ will only replace a failing structure as a lone project keeping the others in the area that are still good.

One way to identify the early 70's signs are that they have the light above it ( originally tube lighting later replaced by mercury lights) and the ones in that late 70's early 80's featured the lights below the panel.

Then in the late 80's the signs were made of the reflective green as before 1985 NJDOT was exclusively button copy.  Still though later on some button copies still made it just like on the late 80's  Pulaski Skyway overhead sign installations (as before LGSes or backlit signs on older gantries were used) were all button copy signs.

Sometimes an overhead structure won't have a replacement right away like on US 1 & 9 at Wilson Avenue in Ironbound Newark as it had a classic green gantry like on US 130 at NJ 168 with all text for straight through US 1 & 9 with an erroneous US 22 added to it as there was or never been a concurrency with US 1 & 9 with US 22 always ending where it still ends today.

[famartin]

One thing I noticed Friday is that it appears NJDOT is dualizing 322 between 130 and 295. Kinda surprised they aren't going all the way to the Turnpike with that, but then again, they probably don't want to encourage shunpiking? Or maybe not enuf money?

[sprjus4]

One thing I noticed Friday is that it appears NJDOT is dualizing 322 between 130 and 295. Kinda surprised they aren't going all the way to the Turnpike with that, but then again, they probably don't want to encourage shunpiking? Or maybe not enuf money?

Seems kind of like that setup would encourage shunpiking.

[Alps]

One thing I noticed Friday is that it appears NJDOT is dualizing 322 between 130 and 295. Kinda surprised they aren't going all the way to the Turnpike with that, but then again, they probably don't want to encourage shunpiking? Or maybe not enuf money?

It looks like they will, and this may just be a phase 1/2 scenario.
https://www.dvrpc.org/RegionallySignificantProjects/

US 322 Widening
US 322 is a major route for shore-bound traffic. This project will widen US 322 between US 130 and the New Jersey Turnpike. This improvement will support the development of Woolwich Town Center.

[storm2k]

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

[famartin]

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

The thing that made me think they aren't going all the way is that there are obvious, fairly recent intersection improvements (which look fairly permanent) between I-295 and the turnpike. But perhaps they were just temporary mitigation.

[storm2k]

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

The thing that made me think they aren't going all the way is that there are obvious, fairly recent intersection improvements (which look fairly permanent) between I-295 and the turnpike. But perhaps they were just temporary mitigation.

Based on GSV, it looks like they were dualizing through some intersections, at least making 2 lanes in each direction. That should make things easier, not harder, I would think. Would doubt that they'd need to grade separate or otherwise drastically improve too many other intersections in that stretch.

[jeffandnicole]

One thing I noticed Friday is that it appears NJDOT is dualizing 322 between 130 and 295. Kinda surprised they aren't going all the way to the Turnpike with that, but then again, they probably don't want to encourage shunpiking? Or maybe not enuf money?

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

It looks like they will, and this may just be a phase 1/2 scenario...

This isn't a NJDOT project.  There's a huge, 3.2 million square foot warehouse development being built between 130 and 295.  The Developer is fully funding the widening between 130 and 295.  It'll include 2 traffic-lighted intersections. 

Here's the website and brochure for the project.  It gives a little hint of how 322 will look when completed. 
https://www.logannorth.com/
https://jll.app.box.com/v/Logan-North-Industrial-Park

Last time I was thru here they hadn't started any 322 construction yet, so if you noticed that happening, then that's started within the last 2 months or so.

Also, don't get caught up in all the 'shunpiking' talk.  295 is a major interstate highway. It's not a shunpike.

...It looks like they will, and this may just be a phase 1/2 scenario.
https://www.dvrpc.org/RegionallySignificantProjects/

US 322 Widening
US 322 is a major route for shore-bound traffic. This project will widen US 322 between US 130 and the New Jersey Turnpike. This improvement will support the development of Woolwich Town Center.

The thing that made me think they aren't going all the way is that there are obvious, fairly recent intersection improvements (which look fairly permanent) between I-295 and the turnpike. But perhaps they were just temporary mitigation.

Any widening from 295 to the Turnpike is a *long* way off.  As noticed in the DVRPC page above, there's not even a link on the heading for that project, and NJDOT doesn't include any reference of it in their 10 year STIP forecast. 

To further the point of its timeline, there is a current NJDOT project that is updating intersections and other areas of the roadway for general traffic light upgrades, ADA access compatibility and other minor improvements.  https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/business/procurement/ConstrServ/documents/BidTabs19120.pdf

A recently completed intersection revamp project on 322 and Kings Highway (CR 551) widened 322 from 2 lanes to 5 lanes thru here (although they also installed an unnecessary protected-only left turn light on 322, when sightlines and traffic flow appears protected-permissive lights would've been just fine).  There's some significance to this project:  The original description online and at a public meeting only widened 322 to 3 lanes (1 thru/right turn lane and a left turn lane per direction).  At the last public meeting, it was revealed 322 would be widened to 5 lanes at the intersection, which was greatly appreciated.

[jeffandnicole]

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

The thing that made me think they aren't going all the way is that there are obvious, fairly recent intersection improvements (which look fairly permanent) between I-295 and the turnpike. But perhaps they were just temporary mitigation.

Based on GSV, it looks like they were dualizing through some intersections, at least making 2 lanes in each direction. That should make things easier, not harder, I would think. Would doubt that they'd need to grade separate or otherwise drastically improve too many other intersections in that stretch.

Of the major intersections from 295 to the NJ Turnpike, going West to East:

The first major one: Berkley Drive, was widened as part of the overall curve straightening project 20+ years ago.  Within the curve itself, there was an area for a RIRO on 322 East that was initiated during the curve straightening project but ran into a grassy field.  A few years ago, it was finally completed during that expansion. 

After this point, 322 narrows down to 2 lanes, goes thru a 'gully' area.  From personal experience: That is a pain in the ass to plow snow from in the winter, where it's narrow with trees and poles near the roadway, and when there's snow on the ground you're just waiting to hit something. 

Next is an offset intersection just up the hill (Locke Ave) from here which is fairly busy, controlled by stop signs on the side roads.  Then comes Swedesboro-Paulsboro Road, which has a dedicated right turn lane EB but no Left turn lanes.  After that is a CSX RR crossing, constructed for only 2 lanes in its present configuration.  I believe that line is still in use.  Next is Garwin Ave, which again is controlled by stop signs on Garwin. This was about the limit of the construction project with Kings Highway, but overall is still just built for 2 lanes on 322.  And next is the Kings Highway intersection, which received the substantial upgrade mentioned in my previous post. 

After that, the trees and brush were cleared from the south side of 322, which gave the appearance there was a widening project underway, but it was only for a sewer and/or water main project.  And then finally we're at the NJ Turnpike intersection, which was built only for 1 lane per direction and a left turn lane.  In theory, this intersection could remain as is, if a future widening project were to go to the Turnpike.  I always felt this should've been made wider though, if nothing more for the opportunity to get more traffic thru this intersection and to pass a slower moving vehicle, which is how the 322/Kings Hwy intersection was built.

So of the above, the current GSV will reveal the one intersection with Kings Hwy that was widened, and that project is finished.  But no other area along this stretch of 322 has been widened, and that other intersection project I mentioned also includes some drainage repairs, which are being done only with the current 2 lane roadway in mind.

[famartin]

One thing I noticed Friday is that it appears NJDOT is dualizing 322 between 130 and 295. Kinda surprised they aren't going all the way to the Turnpike with that, but then again, they probably don't want to encourage shunpiking? Or maybe not enuf money?

Yeah I have to think they broke it into two projects to manage costs and schedules and the like. Widening it to 295 and not continuing it to the Turnpike doesn't make a lot of sense.

It looks like they will, and this may just be a phase 1/2 scenario...

This isn't a NJDOT project.  There's a huge, 3.2 million square foot warehouse development being built between 130 and 295.  The Developer is fully funding the widening between 130 and 295.  It'll include 2 traffic-lighted intersections. 

Here's the website and brochure for the project.  It gives a little hint of how 322 will look when completed. 
https://www.logannorth.com/
https://jll.app.box.com/v/Logan-North-Industrial-Park

Last time I was thru here they hadn't started any 322 construction yet, so if you noticed that happening, then that's started within the last 2 months or so.

Ah, OK this all makes much more sense. And yes, the whole section from 130 to 295 is now torn up. The new roadway looks like it will be south of the existing one.

[jeffandnicole]

Ah, OK this all makes much more sense. And yes, the whole section from 130 to 295 is now torn up. The new roadway looks like it will be south of the existing one.

Great to hear, and thanks for that update.  Glad they're not waiting for the warehouses to be built first!  If I were to imagine this, they'll build the new EB lanes, then go back to rebuild the existing roadway which will become the WB lanes, or widen it slightly to incorporate a full shoulder.

[storm2k]

Meant to point out, I did not realize that NJDOT was starting to take some signing cues from ISTHA these days.

[seicer]

What's with the six mile notification???

[akotchi]

What's with the six mile notification???

I also wonder why Route 29 is signed 27 miles from its beginning.

[famartin]

All the new gantries seem to have distance to the "next" exit (whether, 2, 3 or 6 miles away) and are using "To 29" (westbound) or "To 138" (eastbound).

[Alps]

All the new gantries seem to have distance to the "next" exit (whether, 2, 3 or 6 miles away) and are using "To 29" (westbound) or "To 138" (eastbound).

[storm2k]

All the new gantries seem to have distance to the "next" exit (whether, 2, 3 or 6 miles away) and are using "To 29" (westbound) or "To 138" (eastbound).

The "To 29" part I kinda get, since that's the main road into Trenton from 195's western end. Still, I would probably not start to sign that until around the Turnpike. The "To 138" seems pointless to me. I doubt there are many who realize that 195 continues on as 138 nor do they care since it's just a connector to 35 near Seaside. And the far advance signs regardless of distance is a very un-NJDOT thing to do. They usually don't like posting anything more than a mile out, sometimes 2 miles for major interchanges. Jackson Mills Rd is a very minor road that serves little more than local traffic, so this seems superfluous.

[roadman65]

NJ will not have a post interchange mileage sign which would address the 6 mile thing.  They did the same on I-287 post NJ 208 for NJ 17.    NJ likes to do things its way or no way, which got me into roads growing up.

In the 1960's there were plans to have post exit mileage signs as the CR 577 mileage for Berkley Heights 5 - I-287 18- Clinton 32 were part of that.  Berkley Heights is the next exit.  I-287 is an added feature.  Then Clinto is the next (or was before the sprawl, but mainly copying US 22) control point.

Same on I-287 as at CR 525 was a Bedminster 3 - Metuchen 20 as that was to say Bedminster the next exit is 3 miles and Metuchen was the planned control city for that part of I-287 which was final on the sign.

[roadman65]

To me it would make most sense to have TO I-95 and a Turnpike Shield rather than Route 29 and the other way a Parkway shield. 

Oh boy this is the lowest NJDOT has gotten.

[Alps]

Trying to figure out just what these ubiquitous signs are. Environmental stations?
https://goo.gl/maps/bdhbybEFcpzUeYbk6

[storm2k]

Trying to figure out just what these ubiquitous signs are. Environmental stations?
https://goo.gl/maps/bdhbybEFcpzUeYbk6

Look like some sort of groundwater monitoring thing. Can't tell if it's a NJDEP thing or from one of the private water companies. Maybe both, who knows.

[Alps]

Trying to figure out just what these ubiquitous signs are. Environmental stations?
https://goo.gl/maps/bdhbybEFcpzUeYbk6

Look like some sort of groundwater monitoring thing. Can't tell if it's a NJDEP thing or from one of the private water companies. Maybe both, who knows.

I've seen them in a lot of places, mainly in north Jersey around Morris County.

[Mr. Matté]

Trying to figure out just what these ubiquitous signs are. Environmental stations?
https://goo.gl/maps/bdhbybEFcpzUeYbk6

Look like some sort of groundwater monitoring thing. Can't tell if it's a NJDEP thing or from one of the private water companies. Maybe both, who knows.

I've seen them in a lot of places, mainly in north Jersey around Morris County.

The sign with the numbered "hat?" I think those are underground telephone lines (One with a similar style outside of a Verizon building, maybe a vestige of Bell, similar style for AT&T).

[storm2k]

Trying to figure out just what these ubiquitous signs are. Environmental stations?
https://goo.gl/maps/bdhbybEFcpzUeYbk6

Look like some sort of groundwater monitoring thing. Can't tell if it's a NJDEP thing or from one of the private water companies. Maybe both, who knows.

I've seen them in a lot of places, mainly in north Jersey around Morris County.

The sign with the numbered "hat?" I think those are underground telephone lines (One with a similar style outside of a Verizon building, maybe a vestige of Bell, similar style for AT&T).

That last one clearly has an ATT logo on it, so Mr. Matte may be correct.