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New Jersey

Started by Alps, September 17, 2013, 07:00:19 PM

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NJRoadfan

Your photo doesn't do it justice. That LEFT 3 LANES banner is HUGE in person.

The TOLL banner should be below the "NORTH". Otherwise the rest is fine. Highlighting what lane to be in is a must with complicated NJ ramps. Overall these new gantries seem constrained for space compared to the old ones. Every sign is narrow and squished together showing less information.


famartin

Yeah, my only nit pick is with where the toll banner goes. Otherwise, these are sign practices which are common elsewhere.

roadman65

I was hoping they would add control cities for US 9 South like Sayreville or South Amboy, and Shore Points for the Parkway on the new 440 signs.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

storm2k

Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 04, 2021, 11:05:07 PM
Your photo doesn't do it justice. That LEFT 3 LANES banner is HUGE in person.

The TOLL banner should be below the "NORTH". Otherwise the rest is fine. Highlighting what lane to be in is a must with complicated NJ ramps. Overall these new gantries seem constrained for space compared to the old ones. Every sign is narrow and squished together showing less information.

There was a semi in my way which meant I could not get a good picture of that sign closer up.

My honest opinion is that if there's a ramp that requires quickly figuring out what lane you need to be in, put an overhead on the ramp itself indicating which lane it needs to be.

And, yes, NJDOT seems to be embracing taller thinner "it fits over one lane" sign strategies now. Not sure why. But this is a thing.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: storm2k on November 05, 2021, 01:44:07 AM
My honest opinion is that if there's a ramp that requires quickly figuring out what lane you need to be in, put an overhead on the ramp itself indicating which lane it needs to be.

Unfortunately, that's an pricey $100,000 job, complicated by whatever underground utilities and obstructions may be in the way.  New signage on existing gantries, by comparison, is cheap. 

I would like to see way more overhead signage in this state, and it's sometimes a bit of a headscratcher where they put it and where they don't.  Using NJ 73 as an example, the signage as you approach NJ 41 & NJ 73 is mostly overhead, and easily helps figure out what lane to be in.  Yet just a mile away, for 295 and the NJ Turnpike, the area is mostly devoid of overhead signage, even though this area has a lot more traffic, including out-of-area traffic not familiar with what lanes to be in.  It's gotten marginally better over the years, but still not great.

famartin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 05, 2021, 06:07:08 AM
Quote from: storm2k on November 05, 2021, 01:44:07 AM
My honest opinion is that if there's a ramp that requires quickly figuring out what lane you need to be in, put an overhead on the ramp itself indicating which lane it needs to be.
I would like to see way more overhead signage in this state, and it's sometimes a bit of a headscratcher where they put it and where they don't.  Using NJ 73 as an example, the signage as you approach NJ 41 & NJ 73 is mostly overhead, and easily helps figure out what lane to be in.  Yet just a mile away, for 295 and the NJ Turnpike, the area is mostly devoid of overhead signage, even though this area has a lot more traffic, including out-of-area traffic not familiar with what lanes to be in.  It's gotten marginally better over the years, but still not great.

Concur 100%

Alps

Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 04, 2021, 11:05:07 PM
Your photo doesn't do it justice. That LEFT 3 LANES banner is HUGE in person.

The TOLL banner should be below the "NORTH". Otherwise the rest is fine. Highlighting what lane to be in is a must with complicated NJ ramps. Overall these new gantries seem constrained for space compared to the old ones. Every sign is narrow and squished together showing less information.
I'm fine with the layout in general but agree that the yellow panels are a bit extra.

roadman65

#3632
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NoGoodNamesAvailable

Quote from: roadman65 on November 09, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Has the Wittpenn Bridge yet opened completely?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jersey+City,+NJ/@40.7380584,-74.0793321,1032m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c250d225bfafdd:0x249f013a2cd25d9!8m2!3d40.7177545!4d-74.0431435
Satellite imagery seems to imply it is with the transparent map.

Yes, it's open. The approach on the JC side is still a mess since the Newark Ave exit won't be open for a while and traffic is being detoured onto a temporary ramp for Saint Pauls Ave. It's very inadequate and you can get stuck behind a railroad crossing with slow freight trains.

famartin

Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 09, 2021, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 09, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Has the Wittpenn Bridge yet opened completely?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jersey+City,+NJ/@40.7380584,-74.0793321,1032m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c250d225bfafdd:0x249f013a2cd25d9!8m2!3d40.7177545!4d-74.0431435
Satellite imagery seems to imply it is with the transparent map.

Yes, it's open. The approach on the JC side is still a mess since the Newark Ave exit won't be open for a while and traffic is being detoured onto a temporary ramp for Saint Pauls Ave. It's very inadequate and you can get stuck behind a railroad crossing with slow freight trains.

NJDOT video about the opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccxsmwOumpc

Alps

Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 09, 2021, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 09, 2021, 11:13:28 AM
Has the Wittpenn Bridge yet opened completely?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jersey+City,+NJ/@40.7380584,-74.0793321,1032m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c250d225bfafdd:0x249f013a2cd25d9!8m2!3d40.7177545!4d-74.0431435
Satellite imagery seems to imply it is with the transparent map.

Yes, it's open. The approach on the JC side is still a mess since the Newark Ave exit won't be open for a while and traffic is being detoured onto a temporary ramp for Saint Pauls Ave. It's very inadequate and you can get stuck behind a railroad crossing with slow freight trains.
You won't get stuck if you make a left, get back on 1&9T South, then U-turn at Broadway... but the train may clear by then.

storm2k

Curiosity question: where southbound NJ-179 turns onto Bridge St in Lambertville, why does this sign show "Toll Bridge 1 Mile" when Bridge St leads directly onto the free bridge between Lambertville and New Hope. You'd have to make a second right at NJ-29 northbound and follow that back to 202 to get to the toll bridge, but there are no signs for that. In any event, Scudders Falls isn't free anymore, so it's even more misleading. This sign isn't old either. I'm assuming that it was a replace in kind from earlier signs at this location. Why not just update the sign to say Bridge to New Hope and be done with it?

roadman65

#3637
Quote from: storm2k on November 23, 2021, 03:02:09 PM
Curiosity question: where southbound NJ-179 turns onto Bridge St in Lambertville, why does this sign show "Toll Bridge 1 Mile" when Bridge St leads directly onto the free bridge between Lambertville and New Hope. You'd have to make a second right at NJ-29 northbound and follow that back to 202 to get to the toll bridge, but there are no signs for that. In any event, Scudders Falls isn't free anymore, so it's even more misleading. This sign isn't old either. I'm assuming that it was a replace in kind from earlier signs at this location. Why not just update the sign to say Bridge to New Hope and be done with it?

Error like Essex County on the JFK Parkway in Millburn using I-287 for I-280 bound truckers to bypass Livingston as the intent of that sign posted on the Parsonage Hill Road overpass is for.  Someone along the line was thinking I-280 but made out the sign to instead say I-287.

https://goo.gl/maps/B9owPfyh7tTzM8Sv6



Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman65

I see that the access from US 22 East to the GSP southbound is to become more tedious as you will have to do a double u turn using NJ 82 in addition to the u turn to US 22WB due to the US 22 and NJ 82 improvements.

Why didn't they add a ramp from US 22 EB to Chestnut Street as part of the bridge replacement project. That would at least allow EB to SB to use the 139 on ramp to the Parkway and simply that part plus restore access from US 22 to Chestnut Street it once easily had at the U Turn ramp by the Flagship to Chestnut Street on the WB side.  Plus simply that aspect as if any of you know the u turn ramps in the center aisle of Union can be a major issue due to long waits.  So many there find alternate means including Union County Route 617.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

Locals already use Fairway Dr. S to access the GSP south from 22E. It's shorter then taking 22 and U-turning already.

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on November 29, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
I see that the access from US 22 East to the GSP southbound is to become more tedious as you will have to do a double u turn using NJ 82 in addition to the u turn to US 22WB due to the US 22 and NJ 82 improvements.

Why didn't they add a ramp from US 22 EB to Chestnut Street as part of the bridge replacement project. That would at least allow EB to SB to use the 139 on ramp to the Parkway and simply that part plus restore access from US 22 to Chestnut Street it once easily had at the U Turn ramp by the Flagship to Chestnut Street on the WB side.  Plus simply that aspect as if any of you know the u turn ramps in the center aisle of Union can be a major issue due to long waits.  So many there find alternate means including Union County Route 617.

It would likely mean getting rid of Fairway Drive, which would probably upset the locals. Fairway Drive to Chestnut to 139 on-ramp is the way to go to reach the SB Parkway from 22 Eastbound for sure.

roadman65

Not really. There's room to fit a ramp.  Plus there is plenty of places with five miles to replant trees under the Jersey law.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman65

#3642
https://flic.kr/p/egRnS9
This photo is 16 years old, but other than the price of the 50 cents, the sign is most likely still there today.  ACE for some reason don't have an interest in replacing guide signs.

Edit: Well they did change it( I'm impressed) as seen in the same location 12 years later in 2017.
https://goo.gl/maps/Xd92GaNdFQqTTzTJ9

Unless the mall owner changed, which seems possible as it's their road.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

famartin

Video on forthcoming Route 4 Hackensack River Bridge replacement project.
https://www.rt4hackensackriverbridge.com/

storm2k

Left Turn Arrow To Be Added To Improve Bridgewater Intersection

NJDOT finally coming back around and doing what they should have done when they improved this intersection in.... uh, 2006 or so I think it was? I have no idea why they didn't put dedicated left turn arrows from Chimney Rock Rd onto 28 when they did the intersection improvements. With all the traffic coming from the UPS complex, the big shopping center, etc., this should have been done. It's only gotten worse with the redesign of the Chimney Rock/22 intersection and the further development on the other side of 22 near the quarry.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: storm2k on December 02, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Left Turn Arrow To Be Added To Improve Bridgewater Intersection

NJDOT finally coming back around and doing what they should have done when they improved this intersection in.... uh, 2006 or so I think it was? I have no idea why they didn't put dedicated left turn arrows from Chimney Rock Rd onto 28 when they did the intersection improvements. With all the traffic coming from the UPS complex, the big shopping center, etc., this should have been done. It's only gotten worse with the redesign of the Chimney Rock/22 intersection and the further development on the other side of 22 near the quarry.

I've always felt NJDOT over-studied if a left turn arrow was needed, and all too often they are omitted.  For the cost of the studies, they probably could've saved some money by just making them standard features in the design.  I tend to believe other states (Delaware) appear to use them as matter of policy, and only need to decide will it be a protected/permitted light, protected light with or without flashing red, or off-set phasing. 

roadman65

Why don't they just have the arrow added? Dispatch a crew to hang new signal heads? In Florida it would be done instantly.  Even on the mast arm signals we have had an extra head mounted.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 02, 2021, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: storm2k on December 02, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Left Turn Arrow To Be Added To Improve Bridgewater Intersection

NJDOT finally coming back around and doing what they should have done when they improved this intersection in.... uh, 2006 or so I think it was? I have no idea why they didn't put dedicated left turn arrows from Chimney Rock Rd onto 28 when they did the intersection improvements. With all the traffic coming from the UPS complex, the big shopping center, etc., this should have been done. It's only gotten worse with the redesign of the Chimney Rock/22 intersection and the further development on the other side of 22 near the quarry.

I've always felt NJDOT over-studied if a left turn arrow was needed, and all too often they are omitted.  For the cost of the studies, they probably could've saved some money by just making them standard features in the design.  I tend to believe other states (Delaware) appear to use them as matter of policy, and only need to decide will it be a protected/permitted light, protected light with or without flashing red, or off-set phasing. 
I can tell you when we do it as consultants, it's very straightforward. We analyze the intersection for the build year of choice and if it doesn't look great, we see what we can do to improve it. Heck, I had a recent project where NJDOT told us "study adding left turn signals at every intersection, or left turn lanes if they don't have one." I don't think anything really changed, but they were thinking about it!

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on December 02, 2021, 10:58:18 PM
Why don't they just have the arrow added? Dispatch a crew to hang new signal heads? In Florida it would be done instantly.  Even on the mast arm signals we have had an extra head mounted.

Because a signal head can't just be added. Wiring needs to be fished to the control box.  The computerized software needs to be updated.  A detection system needs to be installed.

storm2k

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 02, 2021, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: storm2k on December 02, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Left Turn Arrow To Be Added To Improve Bridgewater Intersection

NJDOT finally coming back around and doing what they should have done when they improved this intersection in.... uh, 2006 or so I think it was? I have no idea why they didn't put dedicated left turn arrows from Chimney Rock Rd onto 28 when they did the intersection improvements. With all the traffic coming from the UPS complex, the big shopping center, etc., this should have been done. It's only gotten worse with the redesign of the Chimney Rock/22 intersection and the further development on the other side of 22 near the quarry.

I've always felt NJDOT over-studied if a left turn arrow was needed, and all too often they are omitted.  For the cost of the studies, they probably could've saved some money by just making them standard features in the design.  I tend to believe other states (Delaware) appear to use them as matter of policy, and only need to decide will it be a protected/permitted light, protected light with or without flashing red, or off-set phasing. 

This intersection is kind of an interesting case. There was always a jughandle there, mostly to handle traffic to and from the UPS facility there as well as the small industrial park that's along Chimney Rock between 28 and 22. In 1999, TD Bank park opened, as well as the Promenade shopping center which caused a lot more traffic that the original intersection could not handle. In... I want to say 2005-06, they redid the intersection and added dedicated left turn lanes and signals from both sides of 28 to Chimney Rock, thus rendering the original jughandle as a right turn only thing. My point is that when they did this work, traffic on Chimney Rock was already a lot worse, and they put dedicated left turn lanes on both sides on Chimney Rock, so I don't know why they didn't go for arrows as well. Traffic has only gotten worse as instead of ending at a RIRO at 22, that whole intersection was redone in 2014 or so such that Chimney Rock was extended across 22 and connects to Foothill Rd and all of the new stores that were built on the other side of 22 there. I don't know the criteria that NJDOT was looking for in those days, but since they were already installing new signal equipment when they upgraded the 28/Chimney Rock intersection, it would have made sense to put left turn arrows in on Chimney Rock at that time as well.



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