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I-49 Inner-city Connector(Shreveport)

Started by Plutonic Panda, September 23, 2021, 04:42:16 PM

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bwana39

Quote from: Anthony_JK on October 27, 2023, 10:43:05 PM
Quote from: Strider on October 27, 2023, 09:55:46 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on October 26, 2023, 03:38:52 PM
Quote from: Strider on October 26, 2023, 02:50:29 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 26, 2023, 01:36:56 AM
Quote from: Strider on October 25, 2023, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 25, 2023, 10:59:55 AM
Good News!

Not really. As long as opposition continues... It isn't good news. Along the proposed alternatives through Shreveport, there are oppositions, so that's why Loop-It is listed as one of the alternatives. Nobody wants an interstate to go through their historic neighborhood or area.

This road is not slated to go through any part of what was historically Allendale. Regardless of the path, it would run east of that. What we have is a disused interurban rail line (disused for 60+ years) . Public housing was built adjacent to the tracks back in the 1960's.  It was all removed around 2000. In 2007 the Glover administration gave lots to the Fuller Center in the proposed path and they built housing for Katrina refugees. Later, the Glover administration gave the housing authority part of their previous land back. That is where the apartments are.  The part by the so-called Swepco Park was part of the Bottoms. The bottoms was a group of shotgun houses. They have mostly if not all removed. No one misses the bottoms. Even the gentrified term Ledbetter Heights has fallen to the wayside.  (As an aside It was St Paul's bottoms due to it being over the hill from St. Paul's Methodist Church.) Ledbetter Heights was named after Leadbelly (Hudie Ledbetter.) Leadbelly was a famous singer / musicians, but also a murderer.

I think the opposition is 10% of the people between Common and Jewella (Allendale) which is about 10% of the population of Shreveport. So about 1% of the population of Shreveport actually oppose it. Another 2-3% would oppose anything...


The idea is to have 0% opposition or else the Loop It wouldn't be listed as one of the alternatives.
Ummm.... that's not how things work.

The Loop It alternative was added to the alternatives considered as one of many alternatives conceived for the project. It will be analyzed with the same criteria and detail as the other alignments, with no preferential treatment given to it or any other proposed alignment. This is an environmental impact analysis, not a public opinion poll. The mere fact that there may be some opposition to one particular alignment as opposed to another should have only limited bearing on the criteria of whether an alignment meets the purpose and need for the project.


moto g power (2022)


Wrong. Loop It is added as one of the alternatives based on public comments AND the poll, not just because it is already one of the alternatives considered.


Really?


It was added as an alternative under orders from DOT Secretary Buttigieg, after the Save Allendale group petitioned FHWA to add it in. There was NO public opinion poll. Most Shreveport citizens outside of Allendale have said loudly they favor the central alignment.


All of the alignments will be judged equally on their ability to meet the purpose and need of the project, the ability to mitigate properly any negative impacts, and costs. Just because you don't want the central alignment personally (or that I favor it) does not mean that FHWA has to abide by your (or my) personal view. They, along with LADOTD and the people of Shreveport, will decide that based on their analysis during the EIS process.

Loop-It predated Buttigeig. It came out of a public comment meeting. I figure there was a question about what you supported at the meeting. (Public Poll). It was a poll of a packed partisan house (a poorly attended meeting with most of the few people there in opposition)... A resounding majority 20 out of 26. (just random numbers)
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.


bwana39

Quote from: sprjus4 on October 22, 2023, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 22, 2023, 01:06:12 AM
I disagree with the estimation of a 64' median. The street view below  demonstrates it at about half of that ...less than 35' and there are negligible inside shoulders. https://maps.app.goo.gl/rciRVxirs2au5osU7
It's not an "estimation". Google provides a measuring tool. It is a 64 foot median - from yellow line to yellow line - look at it from aerial imagery. The Street View perception is skewed due to the angle. If you look from the opposite side, you get a better vantage point of how large the median is.

There is more than enough room to add a travel lane and full-size shoulder in each direction, with room still leftover.

I went to Shreveport last week. You are right. ..
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

rlb2024

#177
Quote from: bwana39 on November 03, 2023, 11:53:19 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 22, 2023, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 22, 2023, 01:06:12 AM
I disagree with the estimation of a 64' median. The street view below  demonstrates it at about half of that ...less than 35' and there are negligible inside shoulders. https://maps.app.goo.gl/rciRVxirs2au5osU7
It's not an "estimation". Google provides a measuring tool. It is a 64 foot median - from yellow line to yellow line - look at it from aerial imagery. The Street View perception is skewed due to the angle. If you look from the opposite side, you get a better vantage point of how large the median is.

There is more than enough room to add a travel lane and full-size shoulder in each direction, with room still leftover.
I went to Shreveport last week. You are right. ..
I drove 3132 yesterday from I-20 to I-49 and was surprised at how much room there was in the median -- more than I remembered.  That said, however, the road is in terrible shape and could use almost a complete rebuild.

mgk920

Quote from: rlb2024 on December 07, 2023, 10:19:12 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on November 03, 2023, 11:53:19 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 22, 2023, 01:21:52 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 22, 2023, 01:06:12 AM
I disagree with the estimation of a 64' median. The street view below  demonstrates it at about half of that ...less than 35' and there are negligible inside shoulders. https://maps.app.goo.gl/rciRVxirs2au5osU7
It's not an "estimation". Google provides a measuring tool. It is a 64 foot median - from yellow line to yellow line - look at it from aerial imagery. The Street View perception is skewed due to the angle. If you look from the opposite side, you get a better vantage point of how large the median is.

There is more than enough room to add a travel lane and full-size shoulder in each direction, with room still leftover.
I drove 3132 yesterday from I-20 to I-49 and was surprised at how much room there was in the median -- more than I remembered.  That said, however, the road is in terrible shape and could use almost a complete rebuild.

I went to Shreveport last week. You are right. ..

I still remember seeing the live video a few years ago of a lot of stuff in the cab of Big Rig Steve's truck being seriously stirred up by a trip that he took through Shreveport, LA on WB I-20.

MIKE

Echostatic

I-20 in Shreveport has my vote for the roughest road in the country. Doesn't matter the direction. I've been on smoother roller coasters... lots of them.
Travelled in part or in full.

Strider

One of the YouTube streamer named roadwaywiz just drove that section of LA 3132 not long ago (the entire eastbound and westbound, from end to end). You can see there is plenty of room for widening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1gqczO-8Kk&t=53s (eastbound)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94vMsEnVuOo (westbound)

bwana39

Sure there is enough room to widen the LA3132 portion. There is PROBABLY enough room to widen I-220 as well.

Widening the Cross Lake bridge would cost as much or more than the entire ICC.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

The Ghostbuster

Does Louisiana's DOT have any plans to extend LA 3132 beyond LA 523 in the future? I believe there was a proposed to extend it to connect with LA 1, and there is also a proposal to extend 3132 to Interstate 69 when/if it is constructed. Although this is a Fictional Highways pipe dream, I would like 3132 to be extended through the Barksdale Air Force base to reconnect with Interstates 20 and 220 at Interstate 20's Exit 26, to make 220 and 3132 a full beltway around Shreveport. Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

cenlaroads

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

It looks like construction on the interchange was completed in February, but the interchange won't open until the base completes their new gate:  https://bossierpress.com/ribbon-cutting-held-for-long-awaited-i-20-i-220-barksdale-air-force-base-interchange/

Anthony_JK

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Does Louisiana's DOT have any plans to extend LA 3132 beyond LA 523 in the future? I believe there was a proposed to extend it to connect with LA 1, and there is also a proposal to extend 3132 to Interstate 69 when/if it is constructed. Although this is a Fictional Highways pipe dream, I would like 3132 to be extended through the Barksdale Air Force base to reconnect with Interstates 20 and 220 at Interstate 20's Exit 26, to make 220 and 3132 a full beltway around Shreveport. Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

I believe that there were plans to cut through Barksdale AFB and complete the Inner Loop as a true full loop, but it got blocked by BAFB. The recent construction of the new BAFB entrance gate connecting to I-20 at the I-220 East junction effectively kills any future thought of that idea.

The current plan for the Inner Loop is to extend it beyond Flounoy-Lucas Road and terminate it at a junction with the proposed I-69 "bypass" between Stonewall and Haughton, just to the west of where proposed I-69 would cross the Red River near Barksdale and the Port of Shreveport-Bossier. That is dependent, however, on what the future holds for I-69 from Tenaha/Woods NE to Memphis. A "temporary" frontage road, though, is planned along the path of Future I-69 between I-49 near Stonewall and I-20 near Haughton, as a stopgap and a possible temporary terminus for any Inner Loop extension.

bwana39

Quote from: Anthony_JK on December 07, 2023, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Does Louisiana's DOT have any plans to extend LA 3132 beyond LA 523 in the future? I believe there was a proposed to extend it to connect with LA 1, and there is also a proposal to extend 3132 to Interstate 69 when/if it is constructed. Although this is a Fictional Highways pipe dream, I would like 3132 to be extended through the Barksdale Air Force base to reconnect with Interstates 20 and 220 at Interstate 20's Exit 26, to make 220 and 3132 a full beltway around Shreveport. Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

I believe that there were plans to cut through Barksdale AFB and complete the Inner Loop as a true full loop, but it got blocked by BAFB. The recent construction of the new BAFB entrance gate connecting to I-20 at the I-220 East junction effectively kills any future thought of that idea.

The current plan for the Inner Loop is to extend it beyond Flounoy-Lucas Road and terminate it at a junction with the proposed I-69 "bypass" between Stonewall and Haughton, just to the west of where proposed I-69 would cross the Red River near Barksdale and the Port of Shreveport-Bossier. That is dependent, however, on what the future holds for I-69 from Tenaha/Woods NE to Memphis. A "temporary" frontage road, though, is planned along the path of Future I-69 between I-49 near Stonewall and I-20 near Haughton, as a stopgap and a possible temporary terminus for any Inner Loop extension.

Before 9-11 freeways and highways cut across military bases in several places. In the post 9-11 world, the military is not going for that anymore. If I -69 is ever built around the East side, it would come to I-20 near LA-157.

I expect that there will be freeway from I-49 to the port. There is a private toll bridge in the permitting phases to cross the river (at the port). I expect the I-49 to I-20 section to get built. The I-49 to I-369 portion is short enough it might get built. The part I-20 and north is probably 50 years or more away (if ever)

As to 3132 from Flournoy Lucus to the port. The ROW is still open, but there are $400K+ houses adjacent to it.  DOTD and the City of Shreveport are both still on-board for it.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

bwana39

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Does Louisiana's DOT have any plans to extend LA 3132 beyond LA 523 in the future? I believe there was a proposed to extend it to connect with LA 1, and there is also a proposal to extend 3132 to Interstate 69 when/if it is constructed. Although this is a Fictional Highways pipe dream, I would like 3132 to be extended through the Barksdale Air Force base to reconnect with Interstates 20 and 220 at Interstate 20's Exit 26, to make 220 and 3132 a full beltway around Shreveport. Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

The I-69 would miss barksdale by as much as 5 miles. It would eventually come out on I-20 either just east of LA157 or perhaps a little bit to the west.

There is still a plan to extend LA-3132 to LA-1 and concurrent with LA-1 to I-69. At this point, the ROW still exists, BUT there are some $400k+ houses immediately adjacent to it. 
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

RoadWarrior56

I-20 in Shreveport has my vote for the roughest road in the country. Doesn't matter the direction. I've been on smoother roller coasters... lots of them.

My response to the above post earlier in this thread is that I agree that I-20 in Shreveport is rough as are many Louisiana interstates.  I drove it in 2019.  However, I drove on a long section of Interstate for the first time in early October that is the ROUGHEST I have ever driven.  It was so bad that even cruising in the left lane didn't provide much relief, and it was several long sections...............the winner is......I-70 in eastern Colorado between the Kansas state line and the edges of metropolitan Denver, with the worst and longest part closest to Kansas.  It was totally worn-out and ROUGH concrete.  I dread ever driving that road again.

Bobby5280

Quote from: bwana39Before 9-11 freeways and highways cut across military bases in several places.

I-44 still cuts right through the middle of Fort Sill.

mgk920

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2023, 02:06:15 AM
Quote from: bwana39Before 9-11 freeways and highways cut across military bases in several places.

I-44 still cuts right through the middle of Fort Sill.

I-90 is still on its original routing through Fort McCoy in Wisconsin, too.

Mike

bwana39

Quote from: mgk920 on December 09, 2023, 01:23:02 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2023, 02:06:15 AM
Quote from: bwana39Before 9-11 freeways and highways cut across military bases in several places.

I-44 still cuts right through the middle of Fort Sill.

I-90 is still on its original routing through Fort McCoy in Wisconsin, too.

Mike

I was actually thinking of US 27/280 through Ft Moore (Benning) and US-190/I-14 through Ft Cavazos (Hood) among others. I didn't mean to imply they were closed after 9-11, just that new public roads through military bases are pretty much not going to happen.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Bobby5280

The more likely thing that's going to happen is various military bases being closed over the long term. Base Realignment and Clousure Commissions (BRAC) meet every now and then to evaluate various military installations across the country and overseas. Some posts don't survive the axe.

Still, even with installations that remain in operation it's still possible for highways to cross them. After all it has happened in the past. Anyway, the point is the situation is not cut and dry.

abqtraveler

Quote from: cenlaroads on December 07, 2023, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

It looks like construction on the interchange was completed in February, but the interchange won't open until the base completes their new gate:  https://bossierpress.com/ribbon-cutting-held-for-long-awaited-i-20-i-220-barksdale-air-force-base-interchange/
Yes, LaDOTD completed the I-20/I-220/LA-1267 interchange and completed LA-1267 up to the base fenceline. AFAIK, the MILCON project for the new main gate at Barksdale has not yet been started, and I don't know when that construction will begin.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

cjk374

Quote from: abqtraveler on December 11, 2023, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: cenlaroads on December 07, 2023, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

It looks like construction on the interchange was completed in February, but the interchange won't open until the base completes their new gate:  https://bossierpress.com/ribbon-cutting-held-for-long-awaited-i-20-i-220-barksdale-air-force-base-interchange/
Yes, LaDOTD completed the I-20/I-220/LA-1267 interchange and completed LA-1267 up to the base fenceline. AFAIK, the MILCON project for the new main gate at Barksdale has not yet been started, and I don't know when that construction will begin.

....and LA 1267, as well as all of the new ramps leading into/out of LA 1267, remain barricaded and closed to all traffic.
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.

abqtraveler

Quote from: cjk374 on December 12, 2023, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on December 11, 2023, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: cenlaroads on December 07, 2023, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

It looks like construction on the interchange was completed in February, but the interchange won't open until the base completes their new gate:  https://bossierpress.com/ribbon-cutting-held-for-long-awaited-i-20-i-220-barksdale-air-force-base-interchange/
Yes, LaDOTD completed the I-20/I-220/LA-1267 interchange and completed LA-1267 up to the base fenceline. AFAIK, the MILCON project for the new main gate at Barksdale has not yet been started, and I don't know when that construction will begin.

....and LA 1267, as well as all of the new ramps leading into/out of LA 1267, remain barricaded and closed to all traffic.
Because LA-1267 is literally a dead-end right now until the new main gate at Barksdale is finished.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Anthony_JK

#195
Quote from: bwana39 on December 08, 2023, 12:46:43 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 07, 2023, 07:00:41 PM
Does Louisiana's DOT have any plans to extend LA 3132 beyond LA 523 in the future? I believe there was a proposed to extend it to connect with LA 1, and there is also a proposal to extend 3132 to Interstate 69 when/if it is constructed. Although this is a Fictional Highways pipe dream, I would like 3132 to be extended through the Barksdale Air Force base to reconnect with Interstates 20 and 220 at Interstate 20's Exit 26, to make 220 and 3132 a full beltway around Shreveport. Also, I know there is a connector being built off the eastern end of Interstate 220 into the air force base. Does anyone have any updates on when that might be completed (I believe it will be numbered LA 1267)?

The I-69 would miss barksdale by as much as 5 miles. It would eventually come out on I-20 either just east of LA157 or perhaps a little bit to the west.

There is still a plan to extend LA-3132 to LA-1 and concurrent with LA-1 to I-69. At this point, the ROW still exists, BUT there are some $400k+ houses immediately adjacent to it. 

That alignment was considered and even suggested by Shreveport officials, but was ultimately rejected by FHWA due to concerns about maintaining full access control on LA 1 between the point of access between LA 1/LA 3132 and the currently proposed folded diamond interchange between LA 1 and the future I-69 routing. There are two at-grade railroad crossings of LA 1 within that stretch of highway, and also numerous at-grade connectors to the Port of Shreveport-Bossier that would have to be eliminated for that alternative alignment to work.

The LA 3132 alignment that was ultimately approved by FHWA through the NEPA/EIS process (FONSI/EA) terminates LA 3132 at a 3-way directional interchange with the proposed I-69 segment between I-49 near Stonewall and I-20 near Haughton. That junction would be about a mile west of the proposed interchange between LA 1 and I-69. A temporary interchange with the proposed "I-69 Frontage Road" would serve as a stopgap until I-69 was fully built out.


Don't know how the proposed "toll road" across the Red River would affect this alignment, but there you go.


Anthony_JK

Quote from: bwana39 on December 07, 2023, 06:46:42 PM
Sure there is enough room to widen the LA3132 portion. There is PROBABLY enough room to widen I-220 as well.

Widening the Cross Lake bridge would cost as much or more than the entire ICC.

The Alternate 5/"Loop It" proposal has variants for rebuilding the Inner Loop as is (2x2), and adding a third lane in either direction (3x3). There would still be a problem with the Jewella Avenue interchange with LA 3132 having to be removed due to spacing issues with the reworking of the I-49/Inner Loop interchange which would be required to switch the through traffic movements for I-49 onto the Inner Loop rather than continuing straight as currently done.

The Ghostbuster

Perhaps Interstate 220 and LA 3132 should be expanded to six lanes, even if the Interstate 49 Inner-City Connector is constructed. Or would that be impractical, from a right-of-way and traffic demand perspective?

Anthony_JK

I'd have no objection to that, as long as the ICC is completed first.

bwana39

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 13, 2023, 10:49:34 AM
Perhaps Interstate 220 and LA 3132 should be expanded to six lanes, even if the Interstate 49 Inner-City Connector is constructed. Or would that be impractical, from a right-of-way and traffic demand perspective?

I certainly don't see both being done. AFATG the bridge across Cross Lake is probably what is there until it needs replaced due to structural disintegration.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.



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