US-41 Interstate Conversion

[english si]

You seem to be arguing that it should be a two-digit number because it has more population than I-43. But why should a less-direct route with more population be presented as equal to a shorter route?

I-10/I-12 - the longer, more populated route is presented as more important to the shorter route, which while 2di, requires a change of number.

Likewise 3dis that cut the corner off, missing out the core of large population centres:
I-270 v I-70 St Louis; I-470 v I-70 Wheeling; NJTP (not even a 3di) or I-295 v I-95 Philadelphia.

Plus the long-distance bypasses:
I-57 v I-55 to avoid St Louis, I-83-I-81-I-84 v I-95 to avoid New York-New Jersey-Philly, I-395-I-290-I-495 v I-95 to avoid Providence-Boston.

Also, 'I-7' or 'I-9' along CA99 is 4 miles longer than I-5 between LA and Sacramento, though obviously the shorter I-5 route is more major, extending at both ends. In a similar way, I-41 on US 41 wouldn't extend at either end and would function similarly, but I-55 would.

I guess the answer to this problem is control city signage - in central Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and not I-55 and vice versa.

[NE2]

I-10/I-12 - the longer, more populated route is presented as more important to the shorter route, which while 2di, requires a change of number.

New Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)

[SEWIGuy]

Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...

Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)

Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)

[english si]

New Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)

Well yes - that is true - I was just suggesting that the shortest route often involves a change of number.

How about Madison to Billings - I-90 or I-94? Which one do you take? There's a 35 mile difference, and it's not obvious on the map, one going through a large Met area, the other going through a few more minor cities en route. I-94 is both shorter and more populated, but it's I-90 that gets the through number, and that being the case, does it matter if US41 - more populated but longer, gets the through number, rather than I-43?

Driving the shortest and quickest route between Seattle to Chicago involves changing onto I-94 at the first split between I-90 and I-94, and I-90 at the second. Is Chicago signed at Billings? Seattle in WI? no - but control destinations in Milawaukee will help you, unlike with that route - coming north on I-55 or I-43 into Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and the Lake Winnebago cities via I-55.

Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)

So Green Bay coming up I-55 towards Milwaukee would be via I-43 north of Milwaukee, and vice versa. Interesting...

[hbelkins]

Don't get me started on I-10 and I-12. The situation as it currently exists is a cluster foxtrot.

If I-10 has to go through NO, then I-12 should be a 3di, as it serves as a bypass of NO for through traffic.

The best solution would be for I-10 to go straight, north of Lake Ponchartrain, and the interstate looping to NO should be either a 3di, or if it has to be its own interstate, I-6.

[rickmastfan67]

First of all, how do you quote multiple entries at the same time?

You select the first post you want to quote and then hit the quote button there.  Then once you're on the "Post reply" page, find the 2nd post you want to quote and then hit the "Insert Quote" text.

Simple as that.

[colinstu]

See this guys?

http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmnCeLER35E

[hobsini2]

Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...

Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)

Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)

That's exactly my point. Just because it is shorter in distance dopesn't make it better in time.
NE2, you wanted a long distance traveler POV. If i am going to Green Bay from my home in suburban Chicago, I want to avoid Downtown Milwaukee and the N-S Frwy up to Brown Deer Rd due to the frequent backups. Yes 45/894 has it's share too but nowhere near as bad. The only time I would ever take 43 over 41 is if I am going to Door County because 41 would be out of the way.
That's why i said you can't judge a highway strictly by going the easiest access between Downtowns.

BTW TY Big E. I did forget Kohler when looking up the major businesses.

[Jordanah1]

the WI21/Washburn st roundabout at the new WI21 interchange is open, and i believe the Koller roundabout opens tomorow, or very soon anyway. the US41/US45 interchange is nearly complete, there are a few areas of jersey barriers that still needed work as of last weekend (june 9-10) but those were just short segments were different barriers connected. most of the lane striping is in place, the shoulders are finished, and some of the signage is up. light poles were laying next to there sockets, waiting to be put in place. the Northeast side of the flyover still needes to be painted, as well as the US45 overpass over the US41 southbound lanes only, also the US45 overpass over the US45 south to US41 south ramp needes to be painted aswell.

http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/gallery/general-construction

some new pictures of the construction there at US45, and the butte des morts causway.

http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/Alert_US41_6_8_12_WCBC.874

info about lane closures associated with opening the interchange.

im guessing that the US41 southbound butte des morts causway is completed, and traffic will switch to the southbound US41 lanes from north of Witzel, through WI21, and across lake butte des morts, and then will switch so southbound is on southbound, and northbound is on northbound untill snell road, were traffic will cross back to southbound. north of snell road, the inside lane, and most of the inside shoulder is poured all the way past county Y, and the to right lanes were paved, and being prepared for concrete.

[Jordanah1]

here are some pictures of the US41/US45 interchange in oshkosh, and also some of the butte des morts causway. they have moved southbound US41 onto the new southbound roadway from the US45 interchange, across lake butte des morts, and under the new WI21 overpass being built, connecting to the already completed section of 6-lane roadway just north of witzel ave. northbound traffic is still on the bypass around WI21, and on the old butte des morts bridges. they are removing the old southbound roadway across lake butte des morts, and are demolishing the bridges. http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%202/

Also the WI21/Koeller St roundabout is now open. http://us41wisconsin.gov/flex/AlertDraft+US4121KoellerRABOpens6-18-12WC.878

[mgk920]

WisDOT just announced via a Facebook posting that, weather permitting, the NB US 41 -> NB US 45 flyover ramp at Algoma BD, along with the rest of the interchange, in Oshkosh will be complete and opened to traffic at 02:00 on Tuesday, 2012-06-26 - in time for the July 4th holiday traffic crush.

https://www.facebook.com/WisconsinUS41/posts/468759706484866

:jumping:

NOW, will the street section of US 10 in Stevens Point be ready for that?

Mike

[texaskdog]

New Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)

Well yes - that is true - I was just suggesting that the shortest route often involves a change of number.

How about Madison to Billings - I-90 or I-94? Which one do you take? There's a 35 mile difference, and it's not obvious on the map, one going through a large Met area, the other going through a few more minor cities en route. I-94 is both shorter and more populated, but it's I-90 that gets the through number, and that being the case, does it matter if US41 - more populated but longer, gets the through number, rather than I-43?

Driving the shortest and quickest route between Seattle to Chicago involves changing onto I-94 at the first split between I-90 and I-94, and I-90 at the second. Is Chicago signed at Billings? Seattle in WI? no - but control destinations in Milawaukee will help you, unlike with that route - coming north on I-55 or I-43 into Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and the Lake Winnebago cities via I-55.

Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)

So Green Bay coming up I-55 towards Milwaukee would be via I-43 north of Milwaukee, and vice versa. Interesting...

Yes I-94 Madison to Billings should have  been I-90.  I-90 from Madison to Buffalo, WY should have carried a different number.  Oh well.

[merrycilantro]

Does anybody have any Inside Information on IDOT, as to whether or not any debate was given at all to the notion of I-55 being extended into WI? It's been a while, but someone posted that they were not enthused about the idea one bit. And quite frankly, I can't imagine why. Wouldn't the Fed be fronting the money for it? And, wouldn't that create jobs for Illinoisans? Besides the point...

[SEWIGuy]

How would extending I-55 into Wisconsin "create jobs" for Illinois?  Outside of those who have to erect signage, I can't imagine how that would be the case.

[hobsini2]

How would extending I-55 into Wisconsin "create jobs" for Illinois?  Outside of those who have to erect signage, I can't imagine how that would be the case.

Other than the sign erection, it would not unless they somehow redid the interchange why some people want I-55 to head north.

[SEWIGuy]

Yeah, I understand that, but I would run it north along the Tri-State anyway.  It would save much time and keep through traffic away from downtown. 

[Jordanah1]

US41/US45 interchange northbound ramps all opened today (southbound offramp closed temporarily to finish painting flyover). i got o at 9th street, and took the flyover ramp at US45, so here are some pictures from along the way. i also have a picture of the new roundabout at CTY Y/ CTY T intersection.
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%203/

[mgk920]

They're adding a roundabout at County 'T'/County 'Y'?  Didn't know that one.



Mike

[Jordanah1]

it is a seperate project, i just happened to drive through it, they are reconstruction 2 miles or so of CTY T from just south of CTY Y (near the US45 interchange) to the north. including storm sewers, and i believe curb some of it.

[SSOWorld]

 :eyebrow:That road looks like it's made of ice.

[mgk920]

it is a seperate project, i just happened to drive through it, they are reconstruction 2 miles or so of CTY T from just south of CTY Y (near the US45 interchange) to the north. including storm sewers, and i believe curb some of it.

Well, a small part of County 'T' close to the US 45 interchange is in the City of Oshkosh, but that section is not anywhere near enough to prompt the city to do anything like that.  Perhaps the county is doing that due to that small neighborhood by the intersection.  OTOH, whenever that neighborhood will be needing sewer and/or water service, into the City it will have to go as the township (Oshkosh Twp.) is unable to do anything like that (check a map to see how chopped up it is already!) and doing that now will save the city the bother of upgrading the street when that time comes.

Mike

[Fox 11 News]

Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

[Jordanah1]

i took a walk down CTY T from the north a few weeks ago, and i talked to a resident, he thought that (besides the road needing repair) that it was to lure in developers to build some subdivisions in the area, a curbed street looks more appealing. *only storm sewers for rain, not actual sewers...i was a little misleading with that statement...

[SEWIGuy]

Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.

[DaBigE]

Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.

Technically, they never said there would be anything "new"...they just said "more". Either way, with a photojournalist all they could muster up were two photos?!?? That's it??   And one of them has a large utility pole smack in the middle of the shot.