US-41 Interstate Conversion

[Henry]

Sounds like an interesting drive!

[Lyon Wonder]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

[bulldog1979]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

[Lyon Wonder]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.

[Molandfreak]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.

Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI

[Rover_0]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length. It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways about this, and plan to resume it soon.

[SEWIGuy]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

I don't think there will be any confusion whatsoever.  US-41 will disappear...it will be replaced with I-41...and then reappear north of Green Bay.  Same number, same highway with just a different color shield.  Most of the travelling public will take it in stride.

[SEWIGuy]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.

Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI

Maybe he's thinking of US-8.

[mgk920]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways about this, and plan to resume it soon.

ISTR that that was in the original mid-20th century I-system discussions, but state-level political ineptness, as well as the cost of upgrading the existing US 41 to standards at that time (a similar situation to the US/CA 99 v. I-5 thing and to which necessary standards upgrades are STILL ongoing!), ended up conspiring to omit it from the map.

This is worth further academic study.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.

Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI

Maybe he's thinking of US-8.

Very possible

[SEWIGuy]

Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways about this, and plan to resume it soon.

ISTR that that was in the original mid-20th century I-system discussions, but state-level political ineptness, as well as the cost of upgrading the existing US 41 to standards at that time (a similar situation to the US/CA 99 v. I-5 thing and to which necessary standards upgrades are STILL ongoing!), ended up conspiring to omit it from the map.

This is worth further academic study.

You have a very good point here about a further academic study.  Perhaps the locals felt that since most of the money was free, that it was politically easier simply to build new roads than upgrade old ones.

[triplemultiplex]

Back in the day, Appleton/Oshkosh wasn't that much more populous than Manitowoc/Sheboygan.  That being the case, one might just pick the more direct route for a Milwaukee - Green Bay interstate.

Appleton/Oshkosh has seen its population expand quite a lot in the last 30 years, by comparison.  Being closer together than Manitowoc/Sheboygan probably has helped.  The two cities feed off each other's development.

[tdindy88]

If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?

[SEWIGuy]

Back in the day, Appleton/Oshkosh wasn't that much more populous than Manitowoc/Sheboygan.  That being the case, one might just pick the more direct route for a Milwaukee - Green Bay interstate.

Appleton/Oshkosh has seen its population expand quite a lot in the last 30 years, by comparison.  Being closer together than Manitowoc/Sheboygan probably has helped.  The two cities feed off each other's development.

But I-43 wasn't approved until the 1970s.  I don't think the populations of the cities along the respective corridor were that much different than they are now.  If you look at Chris Bessert's summary of I-43, WIDOT wanted it placed along a more direct path...roughly along WI-57.  The feds wanted it to serve more population centers.  My guess is that since by that time, US-41 was four lane divided, there was really no reason to put it there.

I-43:  http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys40-49.html#I-043

[Big John]

If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?

Most of the Oshkosh portion is finished with the exception of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway and WI 21 interchange still under construction.

For Brown County, the major parts currently under construction is the south end to south of Oneida St and the WI 29 interchange area (major, and includes WI 29/32 west of 41).

[mgk920]

If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?

Most of the Oshkosh portion is finished with the exception of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway and WI 21 interchange still under construction.

For Brown County, the major parts currently under construction is the south end to south of Oneida St and the WI 29 interchange area (major, and includes WI 29/32 west of 41).

Actually, at the Oshkosh causeway, the WI 21 interchange is complete and open, but the causeway isn't.  Northbound traffic is shifted to the southbound side (two lanes each way).  Crews are currently pouring concrete for the northbound side of the highway and the causeway's northbound bridges are still not complete.  The rest of the project in the Neenah-Oshkosh area is complete and open.

This is the biggest 'big shovel' year for the Green Bay part - crews are currently setting beams for the flyover ramps at the WI 29 'Shawano' interchange, among ooodles of other things.  It is construction-geek heaven there!

Mike

[SSOWorld]

Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.

[mgk920]

Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.

Fourth - Such lighting is on US(I)-41 at the US 45 'Algoma' interchange in Oshkosh, too, and bases for them are in the median of the remainder of that entire recently-rebuilt part of the highway.



Mike

[SSOWorld]

Well in any case this goes against Wisconsin's philosophy of putting up such lighting.  Unless the municipalities wanted them

[Big John]

^^^ Does median lighting on the I-43 and WI 172 bridges by Green Bay in the last few years count in the equation?

[Jordanah1]

Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.

Fourth - Such lighting is on US(I)-41 at the US 45 'Algoma' interchange in Oshkosh, too, and bases for them are in the median of the remainder of that entire recently-rebuilt part of the highway.


Mike

In addition, the entire length of the causeway will have lighting as well.

corrected spelling while i was in there

[Jordanah1]

right now all 4 driving lanes on northbound US41 over lake butte des morts are poured, and they are preparing to pour the inside median, as well as the outside jersey barrier on the main span. they are also pouring some of the segments in between the spans and the paved sections on land. im thinking this project could be done a little ahead of schedule. the project is scheduled to be completed in july.

[Revive 755]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

Considering Michigan apparently didn't have any issues with losing US 25 or swapping US 27 with US 127 . . .

Looks to me that it wouldn't be too hard to truncate US 41.  North of M-28 it could be renumbered as an extension of US 141, US 141 to Harvey just becomes M-28, M-67 to US 2 becomes an extension of MI 67, and the section overlapping US 2 becomes just US 2.  There would only be two sections that would need completely new numbers.

Giving the circuitous routing in Michigan, does the route really deserve a single number?

[SEWIGuy]

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

Considering Michigan apparently didn't have any issues with losing US 25 or swapping US 27 with US 127 . . .

Looks to me that it wouldn't be too hard to truncate US 41.  North of M-28 it could be renumbered as an extension of US 141, US 141 to Harvey just becomes M-28, M-67 to US 2 becomes an extension of MI 67, and the section overlapping US 2 becomes just US 2.  There would only be two sections that would need completely new numbers.

Giving the circuitous routing in Michigan, does the route really deserve a single number?

US-25 was eliminated in 1974...a whole generation ago.

The US-127 redesignation was initiated by Michigan so it really isn't a great example either.

As to whether or not US-41 "deserves" a single route number, I am not sure I have heard that reasoning to eliminate a USH previously.  It wouldn't be hard to change it...but it really isn't all that "hard" to change any route number.  The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"

[NE2]

The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"

Moving 41 onto 141 would make it clearer which route to Houghton is better. Whatever replaces existing US 41 would end at Marquette.

Incidentally, 41 was originally planned to cut directly north from Powers-Spalding to Marquette, and 141 was 102 (only north of 2).