ICYMI, Oregon passed a law recently that made it legal to pump your own gas.
Thoughts?
EDIT 01/05/2018:
Quote from: Tarkus on January 04, 2018, 10:17:15 PM
To officially clarify, the law only permits self-serve in counties where the population is 40,000 or less, and distinguishes between "Eastern Oregon" counties (basically defined as anything east of the Willamette Valley) and low population counties elsewhere in the state (mostly on the coast). Here (https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2017R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2482/Enrolled) is the text of it.
The following counties can offer 24-hour self-serve--"nonretail" facilities are also included (in order of 2016 population, from lowest to highest):
- Wheeler (1,465)
- Sherman (1,795)
- Gilliam (1,980)
- Wallowa (7,140)
- Harney (7,320)
- Grant (7,410)
- Lake (8,015)
- Morrow (11,745)
- Baker (16,510)
- Crook (21,580)
- Jefferson (22,790)
- Hood River (24,735)
- Wasco (26,700)
- Union (26,745)
- Malheur (31,705)
The coastal counties that meet the population requirement can offer self-serve between 6pm and 6am:
- Curry (22,600)
- Tillamook (25,900)
- Clatsop (38,225)
If any of the "Eastern Oregon" counties above grows beyond 40,000 population, it is then subject to the coastal rules. Those stations must also have an attendant on duty if they have a convenience store or other non-automotive business open on-site between 6am and 6pm.
The following counties don't have self-serve:
- Lincoln (47,735)
- Columbia (50,795)
- Coos (63,190)
- Klamath (67,410)
- Polk (79,730)
- Umatilla (79,880)
- Josephine (84,675)
- Benton (91,320)
- Yamhill (104,990)
- Douglas (110,395)
- Linn (122,315)
- Deschutes (176,635)
- Jackson (213,765)
- Marion (333,950)
- Lane (365,940)
- Clackamas (404,980)
- Washington (583,595)
- Multnomah (790,670)
As an Oregonian, my main issue with self-serve has been the fact that I've generally preferred to fill my tank and pay cash, which only really works well with an attendant. Self-serve stations want you to pay before pumping, and if you're paying with cash, you have to know exactly how much you'd need to fill the tank, or else you'll end up underfilling or overpaying.
My cash-based habits have been breaking down due to Costco, however, and I did finally start to see some of the appeal of self-serve when I drove through Nevada and Arizona this past September.
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 04, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
Just as an example, look at all the fires started by untrained people filling their lawnmowers in NJ. It must be around 0 a year!
Thoughts that come to mind:
If it is so physically dangerous, why don't the attendants wear any protective clothing besides a reflector vest?
Also, it is more dangerous to have the same small set of individuals pump gas from exposure to fumes than if everybody does their own. I have driven 1.1 million miles and I'm guessing there are people who pump more gas every year in NJ than I have in my entire driving lifetime.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 04, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
This has to be TIC.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 04, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
This has to be TIC.
You'd think so, but there are some people who seriously believe this. One particularly infamous comment:
(https://i.imgur.com/kXFXVLa_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Quote from: Takumi on January 04, 2018, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 04, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
This has to be TIC.
You'd think so, but there are some people who seriously believe this. One particularly infamous comment:
(https://i.imgur.com/kXFXVLa_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Which one? I don't think the image is displaying.
Quote from: Katavia on January 04, 2018, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: Takumi on January 04, 2018, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 04, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Considering the volatility of gasoline, this is a very dngerous decision. Having untrained drivers handling it is fortunately still banned here in New Jersey.
Motorists are permitted though to deal with the less volatile Diesel fuel here.
This has to be TIC.
You'd think so, but there are some people who seriously believe this. One particularly infamous comment:
(https://i.imgur.com/kXFXVLa_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Which one? I don't think the image is displaying.
In case you can't see it (I can):
QuoteI've lived in ths state all my life and I REFUSE to pump my own gas. I had to do it once in California while visiting my brother and almost died doing it. This is a service only qualified people should perform. I will literally park at the pump and wait until someone pumps my gas. I can't even
Bah, never mind. Forgot that the firewall at the school where I'm typing this post from blocks Imgur.
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
Quote from: Katavia on January 04, 2018, 05:57:11 AM
ICYMI, Oregon passed a law recently that made it legal to pump your own gas.
Thoughts?
Oregon finally joins the 1980s.
Lots of funny stuff if you search Twitter hashtag #Oregongas this morning.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
This....I generally avoid filling up with gas in Oregon and New Jersey because the attendant is usually prone to do something like not mounting to the gas cap properly. Most gas attendants usually are among the younger crowd and I've had several of them tell me their "opinions" on life or straight up tell me they work for tips. If you have to tell me you want a tip, then you are aren't getting one and I generally just want to be left alone when I fill up with gas so the quasi-political talk isn't welcome.
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 04, 2018, 07:18:45 AM
If it is so physically dangerous, why don't the attendants wear any protective clothing besides a reflector vest?
Gas pump attendants at Pemex in Mexico (where self-serve is also a no-no)
do wear protective clothing. I actually kind of feel sorry for them on really hot days.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/tybfo88i8lpoypmnac2g.jpg)
What really gets me is that the law doesn't do away with full-serve pumps. In fact, stations aren't required to install self-serve pumps at all. It just allows stations in rural areas the option to do so if they see fit. Seems pretty reasonable.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 04, 2018, 09:54:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
This....I generally avoid filling up with gas in Oregon and New Jersey because the attendant is usually prone to do something like not mounting to the gas cap properly. Most gas attendants usually are among the younger crowd and I've had several of them tell me their "opinions" on life or straight up tell me they work for tips. If you have to tell me you want a tip, then you are aren't getting one and I generally just want to be left alone when I fill up with gas so the quasi-political talk isn't welcome.
Clearly they are trying to take advantage of seeing your out of state livense plates if they claim they work just for tips!
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 04, 2018, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 04, 2018, 09:54:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
This....I generally avoid filling up with gas in Oregon and New Jersey because the attendant is usually prone to do something like not mounting to the gas cap properly. Most gas attendants usually are among the younger crowd and I've had several of them tell me their "opinions" on life or straight up tell me they work for tips. If you have to tell me you want a tip, then you are aren't getting one and I generally just want to be left alone when I fill up with gas so the quasi-political talk isn't welcome.
Clearly they are trying to take advantage of seeing your out of state livense plates if they claim they work just for tips!
In Mexico, I have a personal policy of tipping the attendant if he washes the windshield for me, but not tipping if all he does is pump the gas. Even with my American plates and my obviously being from the US, I've never had an attendant there actually ask for a tip.
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:41:44 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 04, 2018, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 04, 2018, 09:54:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
This....I generally avoid filling up with gas in Oregon and New Jersey because the attendant is usually prone to do something like not mounting to the gas cap properly. Most gas attendants usually are among the younger crowd and I've had several of them tell me their "opinions" on life or straight up tell me they work for tips. If you have to tell me you want a tip, then you are aren't getting one and I generally just want to be left alone when I fill up with gas so the quasi-political talk isn't welcome.
Clearly they are trying to take advantage of seeing your out of state livense plates if they claim they work just for tips!
In Mexico, I have a personal policy of tipping the attendant if he washes the windshield for me, but not tipping if all he does is pump the gas. Even with my American plates and my obviously being from the US, I've never had an attendant there actually ask for a tip.
I have never been asked for a tip at any gas station and it would never have occurred to me to give one, especially in Mexico or New Jersey (setting aside my previously-noted dislike of buying gas in New Jersey) where the full-serve is not some kind of special service apart from the norm. Even if I were to go to a full-serve pump in some other state–I never have–I doubt I would tip because they normally charge more for full-serve gas, or at least they always did when I used to see full-serve pumps (I do not recall when I last saw one outside New Jersey or Mexico). Obviously the full-serve pumps are not drawing from some special tank with more-expensive gas in it. The station owner paid the same price for the gas, regardless of whether it's coming from the "self" or the "full" pump, so it seems to me the price premium is intended to compensate the attendant for providing the service of pumping your gas for you.
I guess I view the full-serve attendant as being similar to the person who takes your order at McDonald's. I don't tip at McDonald's and I don't know anyone who does (and I do not normally tip at any other similar sort of establishment). I don't know why there would be a reason to tip at the gas station.
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:41:44 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 04, 2018, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 04, 2018, 09:54:34 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:07:56 AM
I can see the image, both in Takumi's post and in the posts quoting it.
I've never been to Oregon, but I avoid buying gas in New Jersey because I don't like their full-serve law and the way it results in the attendant doing obnoxious things like dropping the gas cap so it smacks against the side of the car. Ms1995hoo's new car doesn't have a gas cap, so I suppose that issue would not be present if I drove that car, but we haven't been to New Jersey since we got that car last May.
This....I generally avoid filling up with gas in Oregon and New Jersey because the attendant is usually prone to do something like not mounting to the gas cap properly. Most gas attendants usually are among the younger crowd and I've had several of them tell me their "opinions" on life or straight up tell me they work for tips. If you have to tell me you want a tip, then you are aren't getting one and I generally just want to be left alone when I fill up with gas so the quasi-political talk isn't welcome.
Clearly they are trying to take advantage of seeing your out of state livense plates if they claim they work just for tips!
In Mexico, I have a personal policy of tipping the attendant if he washes the windshield for me, but not tipping if all he does is pump the gas. Even with my American plates and my obviously being from the US, I've never had an attendant there actually ask for a tip.
Far more often it was in Oregon, New Jersey always seemed to have the whole attendant process way more professionalized on the whole. Some really rural gas stations in Oregon didn't even have attendants, or at least anyone awake to come pump gas. Seems like a lot of stations made the cashier double as the attendant.
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:31:25 PM
In fact, stations aren't required to install self-serve pumps at all.
Is there anywhere self-service pumps are required? I'd be surprised if there were.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 03:11:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:41:44 PM
In Mexico, I have a personal policy of tipping the attendant if he washes the windshield for me, but not tipping if all he does is pump the gas. Even with my American plates and my obviously being from the US, I've never had an attendant there actually ask for a tip.
I have never been asked for a tip at any gas station and it would never have occurred to me to give one, especially in Mexico or New Jersey (setting aside my previously-noted dislike of buying gas in New Jersey) where the full-serve is not some kind of special service apart from the norm. Even if I were to go to a full-serve pump in some other state–I never have–I doubt I would tip because they normally charge more for full-serve gas, or at least they always did when I used to see full-serve pumps (I do not recall when I last saw one outside New Jersey or Mexico). Obviously the full-serve pumps are not drawing from some special tank with more-expensive gas in it. The station owner paid the same price for the gas, regardless of whether it's coming from the "self" or the "full" pump, so it seems to me the price premium is intended to compensate the attendant for providing the service of pumping your gas for you.
I guess I view the full-serve attendant as being similar to the person who takes your order at McDonald's. I don't tip at McDonald's and I don't know anyone who does (and I do not normally tip at any other similar sort of establishment). I don't know why there would be a reason to tip at the gas station.
I take the same approach to tipping at drive-ins like Sonic as I do to tipping at full-serve gas stations: I don't tip if the employee does only what's normally required, but I tip a small amount if the attendant does something extra. I tip at Sonic if I make the carhop do another trip out to the car; I tip at Pemex if I make the pump attendant wash my windshield. Otherwise, what they've done is just what they get paid to do all day long.
To officially clarify, the law only permits self-serve in counties where the population is 40,000 or less, and distinguishes between "Eastern Oregon" counties (basically defined as anything east of the Willamette Valley) and low population counties elsewhere in the state (mostly on the coast). Here (https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2017R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB2482/Enrolled) is the text of it.
The following counties can offer 24-hour self-serve--"nonretail" facilities are also included (in order of 2016 population, from lowest to highest):
- Wheeler (1,465)
- Sherman (1,795)
- Gilliam (1,980)
- Wallowa (7,140)
- Harney (7,320)
- Grant (7,410)
- Lake (8,015)
- Morrow (11,745)
- Baker (16,510)
- Crook (21,580)
- Jefferson (22,790)
- Hood River (24,735)
- Wasco (26,700)
- Union (26,745)
- Malheur (31,705)
The coastal counties that meet the population requirement can offer self-serve between 6pm and 6am:
- Curry (22,600)
- Tillamook (25,900)
- Clatsop (38,225)
If any of the "Eastern Oregon" counties above grows beyond 40,000 population, it is then subject to the coastal rules. Those stations must also have an attendant on duty if they have a convenience store or other non-automotive business open on-site between 6am and 6pm.
The following counties don't have self-serve:
- Lincoln (47,735)
- Columbia (50,795)
- Coos (63,190)
- Klamath (67,410)
- Polk (79,730)
- Umatilla (79,880)
- Josephine (84,675)
- Benton (91,320)
- Yamhill (104,990)
- Douglas (110,395)
- Linn (122,315)
- Deschutes (176,635)
- Jackson (213,765)
- Marion (333,950)
- Lane (365,940)
- Clackamas (404,980)
- Washington (583,595)
- Multnomah (790,670)
As an Oregonian, my main issue with self-serve has been the fact that I've generally preferred to fill my tank and pay cash, which only really works well with an attendant. Self-serve stations want you to pay before pumping, and if you're paying with cash, you have to know exactly how much you'd need to fill the tank, or else you'll end up underfilling or overpaying.
My cash-based habits have been breaking down due to Costco, however, and I did finally start to see some of the appeal of self-serve when I drove through Nevada and Arizona this past September.
Will add this to OP. Thanks Tarkus.
Here's an article: https://jalopnik.com/join-america-in-laughing-at-oregonians-freaking-out-abo-1821708958 (https://jalopnik.com/join-america-in-laughing-at-oregonians-freaking-out-abo-1821708958)
Around 10 years ago, one of my dad's friends drove to Oregon and didn't know about the gas pumping rules. He got out of his car and swiped his card like he would at any other gas station, puts the pump into his car...then the attendant runs out and accuses him of stealing gas.
When I was last in Oregon on a family road trip, my parents were surprised and annoyed that they couldn't pump their own gas, and they certainly didn't tip the attendant. On the way back they made sure to buy gas before and after the state line.
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165760_1984451438479924_3514180348764538883_n.jpg?oh=33db838d9d577ac516798dce55d054ce&oe=5AF9C62F)
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26167645_1839434776091220_909702907233761679_n.jpg?oh=abae559bbb41b08eb3583eddd5297631&oe=5AEFDD20)
Having worked at a gas station I've seen enough freaking idiots: Fill milk jugs with gas; let their small children pump gas; gas spills due to unattended pumps (don't expect they will just shut off every time); not setting the gas cans on the ground; using phones while pumping; sitting in their vehicles; not shutting off their engines....all safety issues. I loved not having to pump gas when we visited Oregon.
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 03:11:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:41:44 PM
In Mexico, I have a personal policy of tipping the attendant if he washes the windshield for me, but not tipping if all he does is pump the gas. Even with my American plates and my obviously being from the US, I've never had an attendant there actually ask for a tip.
I have never been asked for a tip at any gas station and it would never have occurred to me to give one, especially in Mexico or New Jersey (setting aside my previously-noted dislike of buying gas in New Jersey) where the full-serve is not some kind of special service apart from the norm. Even if I were to go to a full-serve pump in some other state—I never have—I doubt I would tip because they normally charge more for full-serve gas, or at least they always did when I used to see full-serve pumps (I do not recall when I last saw one outside New Jersey or Mexico). Obviously the full-serve pumps are not drawing from some special tank with more-expensive gas in it. The station owner paid the same price for the gas, regardless of whether it's coming from the "self" or the "full" pump, so it seems to me the price premium is intended to compensate the attendant for providing the service of pumping your gas for you.
I guess I view the full-serve attendant as being similar to the person who takes your order at McDonald's. I don't tip at McDonald's and I don't know anyone who does (and I do not normally tip at any other similar sort of establishment). I don't know why there would be a reason to tip at the gas station.
I take the same approach to tipping at drive-ins like Sonic as I do to tipping at full-serve gas stations: I don't tip if the employee does only what's normally required, but I tip a small amount if the attendant does something extra. I tip at Sonic if I make the carhop do another trip out to the car; I tip at Pemex if I make the pump attendant wash my windshield. Otherwise, what they've done is just what they get paid to do all day long.
I tipped them $1 when they pumped it. I figure they don't make much money and could put it to good use (though I don't pump gas station employees who don't pump gas).
Quote from: texaskdog on January 04, 2018, 11:16:31 PM
Having worked at a gas station I've seen enough freaking idiots: Fill milk jugs with gas; let their small children pump gas; gas spills due to unattended pumps (don't expect they will just shut off every time); not setting the gas cans on the ground; using phones while pumping; sitting in their vehicles; not shutting off their engines....all safety issues. I loved not having to pump gas when we visited Oregon.
When I worked at Road Runner, someone left the nozzle in their tank and managed to pull the whole gas pump off its base, causing a small fire. The pump was toast, but the car and driver managed to escape unscathed. That was probably 20-25 years ago before the "breakaway" hose adapters.
Quote from: Katavia on January 04, 2018, 05:57:11 AM
ICYMI, Oregon passed a law recently that made it legal to pump your own gas.
Thoughts?
(https://i.imgur.com/b2AyXSA.png)
Quote from: texaskdog on January 04, 2018, 11:16:31 PM
Having worked at a gas station I've seen enough freaking idiots: Fill milk jugs with gas; let their small children pump gas; gas spills due to unattended pumps (don't expect they will just shut off every time); not setting the gas cans on the ground; using phones while pumping; sitting in their vehicles; not shutting off their engines....all safety issues. I loved not having to pump gas when we visited Oregon.
Don't forget the idiots that drop a lite cig on the ground 4 ft from the where one is pumping gas :pan:
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2018, 02:31:25 PM
What really gets me is that the law doesn't do away with full-serve pumps. In fact, stations aren't required to install self-serve pumps at all. It just allows stations in rural areas the option to do so if they see fit. Seems pretty reasonable.
That is why its reasonable for Oregon. I don't see a problem with pumping your own gas.
Quote from: Tarkus on January 04, 2018, 10:17:15 PM
As an Oregonian, my main issue with self-serve has been the fact that I've generally preferred to fill my tank and pay cash, which only really works well with an attendant. Self-serve stations want you to pay before pumping, and if you're paying with cash, you have to know exactly how much you'd need to fill the tank, or else you'll end up underfilling or overpaying.
My cash-based habits have been breaking down due to Costco, however, and I did finally start to see some of the appeal of self-serve when I drove through Nevada and Arizona this past September.
I always fill my tank until the shut-off, which means I never know in advance exactly how much I'm putting in. So, if paying cash, I always have to go back for change.
Quote from: texaskdog on January 04, 2018, 11:16:31 PM
using phones while pumping ... not shutting off their engines....all safety issues.
The chances of something going wrong because of either of these two issues is very small. You have to have something
seriously wrong with your car for leaving it running while pumping gas to be a problem.
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2018, 11:38:50 PM
When I worked at Road Runner, someone left the nozzle in their tank and managed to pull the whole gas pump off its base, causing a small fire. The pump was toast, but the car and driver managed to escape unscathed. That was probably 20-25 years ago before the "breakaway" hose adapters.
I've seen this
even with a breakaway hose. This was at a Huck's truck stop in Mount Vernon, Illinois. A lady had pumped gas, forgotten to remove the nozzle from the car, and driven away. For whatever reason, the hose did not break away and it pulled the whole pump over on its side.
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2018, 11:14:29 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165760_1984451438479924_3514180348764538883_n.jpg?oh=33db838d9d577ac516798dce55d054ce&oe=5AF9C62F)
For a split second, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with this. That's because, in Mexico, regular gas has green handles, premium has red handles, and diesel has black handles. So I'm quite used to actually telling gas station attendants to fill up my gasoline-engine car with the Spanish equivalent of "fill it up with green".
I got gas a couple weeks ago where the pump didn't shut off where I expected it to. I don't know if there was a valve or sensor problem, but I finally just stopped the pump. My gas gauge read "FULL" for a long time. Likely the last time I buy gas at that station.
QuoteYou have to have something seriously wrong with your car if you need to leave it running while pumping gas.
FIFY.
Quote from: texaskdog on January 04, 2018, 11:16:31 PM
Having worked at a gas station I've seen enough freaking idiots: Fill milk jugs with gas; let their small children pump gas; gas spills due to unattended pumps (don't expect they will just shut off every time); not setting the gas cans on the ground; using phones while pumping; sitting in their vehicles; not shutting off their engines....all safety issues. I loved not having to pump gas when we visited Oregon.
Everything highlighted happens in Full-serve NJ as well.
In many cases, there's 1 attendant for 4 to 8 pumps. Obviously he can't be at each pump at the same time.
While I and most people shut off our cars when refueling, occasionally a vehicle is left on.
Phones and pumping - all the time. However, the hazard I believe is greatly exaggerated. Yes, there's a chance a phone could start a fire, but it's so small that nearly every story written about it is based on a hoax. Heck, I remember a story way back when in the local paper...just as it started turning away from real news...that a full service attendant refused to pump gas because the person inside their car was on a phone. Wasn't even having anything to do with pumping gas. The newspaper defended the gas station based on what was a hoax story.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
You have to have something seriously wrong with your car for leaving it running while pumping gas to be a problem.
Quote from: roadman on January 05, 2018, 01:56:30 PM
QuoteYou have to have something seriously wrong with your car if you need to leave it running while pumping gas.
FIFY.
Filling up with a baby in the car at 15 degrees below zero... Some people would rather have the heat stay on than worry about some infinitesimally small chance of a mechanical failure causing a fire while filling up with gas.
Just the other day, in fact, I left my engine running to fill up with gas. It was eleven degrees outside, and my battery was low. When I left home, the engine struggled to turn over, the gauge needles flickered for a few seconds, and then it just barely kicked to life. No way I was going to shut that car off while pumping gas, or else I'd be stranded at the pump in the bitter cold.
When I was a kid, some lady left her car running while pumping gas. The car shifted into reverse somehow and went careening into a nearby intersection.
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2018, 03:17:06 PM
When I was a kid, some lady left her car running while pumping gas. The car shifted into reverse somehow and went careening into a nearby intersection.
Back when I drove an Isuzu cab-over turbo-diesel box truck for work, I filled up at the diesel pumps (at the same Huck's in Mount Vernon that I mentioned earlier, as a matter of fact) and then pulled forward several feet before going inside to pay. I did this so another truck could pull in behind me if needed, as I also had to use the restroom after paying. So I put it in Neutral, coasted forward a bit, took the keys out, walked inside and payed the cashier, went pee, and then walked back outside to find the truck missing from where I'd left it. I found out on that day that my truck allowed you to take the keys out without first shifting into Park. The transmission was still in Neutral when I went inside. It had apparently slowly rolled forward until it reached the low spot of the truck lot. Fortunately, it didn't hit anything or anyone, but there it was waiting for me in the middle of the concrete abyss.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2018, 11:14:29 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165760_1984451438479924_3514180348764538883_n.jpg?oh=33db838d9d577ac516798dce55d054ce&oe=5AF9C62F)
For a split second, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with this. That's because, in Mexico, regular gas has green handles, premium has red handles, and diesel has black handles. So I'm quite used to actually telling gas station attendants to fill up my gasoline-engine car with the Spanish equivalent of "fill it up with green".
I'm used to seeing diesel as yellow in Ontario. Speaking of diesel, I had a friend in high school who filled up his Dad's car with diesel not realizing it was wrong. He said the nozzle didn't fit and he had to drip it into the tank :pan:. Even our science teacher was laughing at him (I actually felt bad for him).
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2018, 11:14:29 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165760_1984451438479924_3514180348764538883_n.jpg?oh=33db838d9d577ac516798dce55d054ce&oe=5AF9C62F)
Dug up a photo for you.
GREEN GAS is ubiquitous in Mexico
(https://i.imgur.com/FNz4RbQ.png)
Quote from: 7/8 on January 05, 2018, 03:46:51 PM
I'm used to seeing diesel as yellow in Ontario. Speaking of diesel, I had a friend in high school who filled up his Dad's car with diesel not realizing it was wrong. He said the nozzle didn't fit and he had to drip it into the tank :pan:. Even our science teacher was laughing at him (I actually felt bad for him).
I came close to doing that in Hay River NT, though the nozzle not fitting kept me from getting more than a few droplets of diesel into my gas tank. After my initial freak-out, I filled the rest of the tank with premium gasoline, in hopes of diluting the diesel enough to avoid problems. That did the trick.
(https://i.imgur.com/7kBp2Hc_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Quote from: oscar on January 05, 2018, 05:09:15 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on January 05, 2018, 03:46:51 PM
I'm used to seeing diesel as yellow in Ontario. Speaking of diesel, I had a friend in high school who filled up his Dad's car with diesel not realizing it was wrong. He said the nozzle didn't fit and he had to drip it into the tank :pan:. Even our science teacher was laughing at him (I actually felt bad for him).
I came close to doing that in Hay River NT, though the nozzle not fitting kept me from getting more than a few droplets of diesel into my gas tank. After my initial freak-out, I filled the rest of the tank with premium gasoline, in hopes of diluting the diesel enough to avoid problems. That did the trick.
Some diesel nozzles are narrower than others, aren't they? I've come close a few times back when I drove box truck, because three out of our fleet's four trucks were diesel while the other one was gasoline.
It is unconscionable that this State created crisis is allowed to continue. The law should be repealed. Why did the politicians impose it on the people in the first place?
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on January 05, 2018, 11:11:37 PM
It is unconscionable that this State created crisis is allowed to continue. The law should be repealed. Why did the politicians impose it on the people in the first place?
Because it supposedly creates entry level jobs.
My concern about this change to Oregon's gas-pumping law is that it will greatly increase the risk that someone drives into a gas station, thinks self-serve is allowed, and starts pumping only to have someone come out screaming blue murder.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 03:05:17 PMJust the other day, in fact, I left my engine running to fill up with gas. It was eleven degrees outside, and my battery was low. When I left home, the engine struggled to turn over, the gauge needles flickered for a few seconds, and then it just barely kicked to life. No way I was going to shut that car off while pumping gas, or else I'd be stranded at the pump in the bitter cold.
I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild. Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 06, 2018, 12:00:10 AM
My concern about this change to Oregon's gas-pumping law is that it will greatly increase the risk that someone drives into a gas station, thinks self-serve is allowed, and starts pumping only to have someone come out screaming blue murder.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 03:05:17 PMJust the other day, in fact, I left my engine running to fill up with gas. It was eleven degrees outside, and my battery was low. When I left home, the engine struggled to turn over, the gauge needles flickered for a few seconds, and then it just barely kicked to life. No way I was going to shut that car off while pumping gas, or else I'd be stranded at the pump in the bitter cold.
I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild. Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.
If that's the case, then they could just fill as much as needed, then get away and hope they have enough fuel to reach the nearest state line.
Quote from: theroadwayone on January 06, 2018, 01:06:55 AMIf that's the case, then they could just fill as much as needed, then get away and hope they have enough fuel to reach the nearest state line.
That is not really a solution. Once you are in the position of needing even a small amount of fuel to get out of Oregon and you make the mistake of assuming self-serve at a location that doesn't allow it and get yelled at by the manager or gas jockey, you might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.
The first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas. When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 06, 2018, 12:00:10 AM
I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild. Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.
Many new cars (Fords, some Hondas) don't even have a gas cap anymore. Last time I went to get my 2013 car inspected, they didn't even pressure check the gas cap, so whats in there really doesn't do anything.
Filling up with the engine running is a common sight in full serve NJ too.
Quote from: Jim on January 06, 2018, 11:00:21 AM
The first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas. When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.
The first time I ever went to Oregon it was on US 199 and stopped somewhere southwest of Grants Pass. The attendant saw me filling up and was going to say something until he saw the Arizona tag. Nice enough old guy to explain that it probably wasn't a good idea to fill up myself near I-5 or a major roadway, he let me fill up on my own as we were talking about the state law. I'm to understand most people coming from US 199 are generally coming from Redwood National Park so they are kind of used to out of state people there.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 06, 2018, 11:10:13 AMMany new cars (Fords, some Hondas) don't even have a gas cap anymore. Last time I went to get my 2013 car inspected, they didn't even pressure check the gas cap, so whats in there really doesn't do anything.
Ford's EasyFill system includes a flap in the filler neck that seals in fuel vapors and is supposed to lock when the car is locked: that is how EasyFill-equipped cars are able to omit the gas cap.
OBD II is federally required and part of the specification is leak detection in the evaporative emissions system. A missing gas cap in a car that requires a cap for sealing is enough to set a P0440 ("gross leak") code.
Quote from: Jim on January 06, 2018, 11:00:21 AMThe first time I visited Oregon back in 1999, I had no idea that I was not allowed to pump my own gas. When I did, the reaction I got would make you think I was murdering the attendant or was taking a blowtorch to their pumps to try to cause an explosion.
You are not alone--Rich Piehl (longtime MTR regular whom I think is not on this board) mentioned a similar experience when this change was being discussed on the road-related Facebook groups.
I knew about the self-serve ban before I drove into Oregon for the first time, because my first exposure to the concept of a self-serve ban was in New Jersey. At the time (I have not been to NJ since 1998), it was common for the gas jockey to be right at your window as you pulled to a stop at the pump, so that you couldn't even open the door until you handed over a payment instrument to start the transaction; I was never actually in a position to start the pump myself. I later did research on the Web and discovered that NJ and Oregon were the only two states with self-serve bans.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2018, 09:27:31 AM
Lots of funny stuff if you search Twitter hashtag #Oregongas this morning.
I spotted that meme on that blog http://moonbattery.com/?p=91196 along with that clip from Back to the Future where once upon a time gas attendants also clean the windshield, oil check, tire pressure check.
(https://i.imgur.com/MG6IXND.jpg)
https://youtu.be/WY2w2-CAKgM?t=31s
Many of those Eastern Oregon counties already had self service at night, like the coastal counties will now. Most of those stations usually aren't too busy, when the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working. When it's not busy though, it's definitely nice to stay in the car and out of the rain.
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on January 06, 2018, 11:46:20 PM
Most of those stations usually aren't too busy, when the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working.
Yep. I've had this experience in Portland. I stopped at a gas station just south of the Interstate Bridge on Hayden Island, and it was super busy with only one attendant working, so I was just like "screw it" and drove across the border into Washington and pumped my own gas. :nod:
If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 01:40:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 04, 2018, 11:14:29 PM
(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26165760_1984451438479924_3514180348764538883_n.jpg?oh=33db838d9d577ac516798dce55d054ce&oe=5AF9C62F)
For a split second, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with this.
There might not be anything wrong with that pic if it was was taken at a BP station that has green handles for gas and black handles for diesel.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 07, 2018, 12:35:07 AM
If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
Maybe that is exactly why there will be no full service there. Working full shift at that temperature is tough...
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 06, 2018, 12:00:10 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2018, 03:05:17 PMJust the other day, in fact, I left my engine running to fill up with gas. It was eleven degrees outside, and my battery was low. When I left home, the engine struggled to turn over, the gauge needles flickered for a few seconds, and then it just barely kicked to life. No way I was going to shut that car off while pumping gas, or else I'd be stranded at the pump in the bitter cold.
I'm surprised OBD II didn't go wild. Your vehicle is new enough to require a completely sealed gas cap and taking it off while the engine is running is enough to set a leak DTC for the evaporative emissions system.
I've never had much of an issue with that. Of course, over the last eight years, it's been a rare occasion that I've had a car whose check engine light was
not on. I don't know if that's the indicator that a leak would trigger but, if it is, then I would never know because my check engine light has been on pretty much since we bought it for one of the catalytic converters. Considering I drove our minivan for 100k miles with a
backwards cat to no detriment, I've been postponing that fix.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 07, 2018, 12:35:07 AM
If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
The first time I ever encountered a full-serve pump was near the IL/MO border along US-54. If memory serves, it was in the town of Louisiana (MO); I can't find the gas station on Google Maps, but it's possible it was torn down or rebuilt or whatever. Anyway, it never occurred to me that I should look for the self-serve pump instead of the full-serve pump because, as I said, I'd never encountered a full-serve pump before. It was after dark in the middle of a snowstorm, I pulled up to the pump and began getting ready to dispense my gas. Then the attendant came out from the station, all bundled up to beat the cold wind, ready to pump for me. I looked at the sign and noticed the price difference between full- and self-serve, didn't want to pay the extra money, apologized to the gentleman, and moved one pump over. I felt kind of bad for the guy, considering I made him come outside for nothing in the middle of the nasty weather.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2018, 01:47:39 PMI've never had much of an issue with that. Of course, over the last eight years, it's been a rare occasion that I've had a car whose check engine light was not on. I don't know if that's the indicator that a leak would trigger but, if it is, then I would never know because my check engine light has been on pretty much since we bought it for one of the catalytic converters.
Yes, the P0440 "gross leak" code that sets when the gas cap is taken off with the engine running will turn on a steady CEL. I think it may also self-clear when the gas cap is put back on and OBD II sees that the "gross leak" is now absent, but I am not completely sure.
The catalyst-related CEL sounds like a tired rear oxygen sensor to me. In this case, I would say the charging system is a much higher priority. Feeble cranking when cold is a sign of a battery on its way out, and possibly the alternator as well (the two will set up a circular firing squad under the hood: hence rules of thumb like "three summers, two winters" for a battery to keep the alternator healthy, or "alternator life is equal to two consecutive battery lifetimes").
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2018, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 07, 2018, 12:35:07 AM
If there's any place that needs manned gas pumps, it's the Upper Midwest. You go try pumping gas when it's below zero outside!
The first time I ever encountered a full-serve pump was near the IL/MO border along US-54. If memory serves, it was in the town of Louisiana (MO); I can't find the gas station on Google Maps, but it's possible it was torn down or rebuilt or whatever. Anyway, it never occurred to me that I should look for the self-serve pump instead of the full-serve pump because, as I said, I'd never encountered a full-serve pump before. It was after dark in the middle of a snowstorm, I pulled up to the pump and began getting ready to dispense my gas. Then the attendant came out from the station, all bundled up to beat the cold wind, ready to pump for me. I looked at the sign and noticed the price difference between full- and self-serve, didn't want to pay the extra money, apologized to the gentleman, and moved one pump over. I felt kind of bad for the guy, considering I made him come outside for nothing in the middle of the nasty weather.
Having never encountered a full-service pump myself, either, I think I'd do exactly the same thing. :ded: :-D
That story reminds me of a trip to New Jersey the year after I graduated from college to attend the wedding of two college friends. A bunch of us were up there. I had to buy gas there before starting home and one of my friends pulled up to the same gas station. He automatically got out and started to remove his gas cap...you would have thought he was robbing a bank or something the way the attendant reacted. Thing is, he had never bought gas in Jersey before and didn't know about their stupid law, so I don't see how you could really blame him. (It wasn't on the Turnpike where the service areas are always busy–this was a regular station somewhere around Parsippany.)
Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AMRemember when full service was the norm in all states...
I am too young to remember such a time. Here is a capsule history of self-service gas stations in the US (in 1971, Oregon and New Jersey were among 14 states that banned customer dispensing of gasoline--my home state, Kansas, was also one of them):
https://www.masterresource.org/self-service-service-station-bans/self-service-institutionalized/
And Westminster, Colorado claims to be ground zero for self-service as it is currently known in the US:
https://www.denverpost.com/2014/06/08/self-service-gas-began-50-years-ago-in-westminster/
Wikipedia also has an article on pay-at-the-pump which says it started in 1982 in Europe. I have been driving for 25 years now and even when I started, the population of gas pumps not capable of accepting payment had dwindled to the point where they were not difficult to avoid in urban areas.
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on January 06, 2018, 11:46:20 PMwhen the self serve ban really gets annoying is when there's 10 cars waiting for gas in Portland with only one high school kid working
Even worse, when the one kid can't figure out the order to pump gas. They inevitably start the rear car first, which means that car can't leave until the front car is finished. He'll do one side of the island, while leaving the other side of the island waiting (either to pump or to have the nozzle removed). He walks at a snail's pace even though pumps are clicking off. He'll remove the nozzle from the rear car first while the front car is done, so the rear car can't do anything until he gets around to the front car - and usually, he walks to the other side of the island, so the rear car can't go, the front car is still waiting...
"Professional Fuel Dispensing Technician" my a--... But what's worse is when I go up to Washington and there are folks up there who can't figure out how to pump their gas - and yes, they have Washington plates on their cars.
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AM
Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
...and free air and water plus maps too! Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air.
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on April 17, 2018, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AM
Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
...and free air and water plus maps too! Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air.
Rick
Yep. And water.
I've been in that line of work. If I didn't ask each driver if I could check their oil, I had to give them a free quart, and it came out of my pay.
Quote from: nexus73 on April 17, 2018, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AM
Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
...and free air and water plus maps too! Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air.
Rick
Seriously? I have never gotten air ouside of Sherwood but air/water is free here at the Chevron.
LG-TP260
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on April 17, 2018, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 17, 2018, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 09, 2018, 01:07:00 AM
Remember when full service was the norm in all states...
...and free air and water plus maps too! Nowadays the ripoff owners of gas stations want to charge $1.50 for air.
Rick
Seriously? I have never gotten air ouside of Sherwood but air/water is free here at the Chevron.
LG-TP260
In the Boise area all the Sinclair stations have free air, but most of the other stations (Maverik for sure, but I think Chevron and Shell as well) have machines that require payment before you get air. I don't know how much they charge, since I always go to the Sinclair for free air.
This map is far from complete (its crowdsourced; I've added a few stations myself), but a good resource either way: https://www.freeairpump.com/map/
It seems ludicrous to me that any stations at all charge for air. It should always be free, much like a glass of water is at a restaurant.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on April 17, 2018, 05:48:13 PM
It seems ludicrous to me that any stations at all charge for air. It should always be free, much like a glass of water is at a restaurant.
If the station has some sort of pneumatically driven stuff - like mechanics' tools, or gas pumps - then adding a regulator and a hose to already installed air systemis a relatively cheap thing.
Many station have dedicated installs with a standalone compressor and some control logic. Those may think that since they invest in machine, they should recoup the costs.
More like they think if your tires are low, you'll pay whatever it takes to fill them up again and not fuss.
I think it has been probably decades since I last used an air pump at a gas station. For the most accurate pressure readings, tires need to be measured cold. Preferably this should be indoors inside a garage, but if it has to be done outdoors, it should be in the shade or early in the day when it is cool and the sun has had no opportunity to create a pressure differential by shining on one side of the car. Even a half-mile drive to the nearest gas station is enough to close the window for reliable pressure measurements.
Of course, where are people going to go to get air? My parents have an air compressor in their garage, but most people don't.
My system is to check the tires in the parking lot, and if they're low, go the Stewarts (which has free air) and check them again, and use the difference to calculate where they need to be filled to.
Quote from: vdeane on April 18, 2018, 01:07:37 PM
Of course, where are people going to go to get air? My parents have an air compressor in their garage, but most people don't.
Carry a portable air compressor in your car. They're not terribly expensive (I think I got mine at WalMart for about $25), and can help you deal with slow leaks until you can get your tire repaired.
Quote from: vdeane on April 18, 2018, 01:07:37 PMOf course, where are people going to go to get air? My parents have an air compressor in their garage, but most people don't.
This is one of those areas where it is better not to look to "most people" as a reference for what you should do. "Most people" take out loans to buy used cars that they don't have checked out by a mechanic in advance, take their financial planning advice from Dave Ramsey, don't pay their entire credit card balance every month, get mad at Congress as a body while voting for their own idiot every two years, etc.
For over 20 years I have had at least an air compressor that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket. For much of that time I have carried the compressor in the trunk along with a pencil-type tire pressure gauge and a battery-operated lantern so I can work in the dark. Nowadays, to minimize battery load, I use a compressor that is kept in a workbench in the garage and can run off wall current.
It is not difficult to find a compressor for about $20 at Walmart or a large discounter. I have one somewhere that I actually bought at the Walmart in San Leandro, California, on a roadtrip, when the one I had had for about 10 years finally gave up the ghost.
I am very scrupulous about checking tires cold and adjusting tire pressures so that there is a maximum of 1 psi difference across the steering axle, because I notice off-center steering at pressure differentials as low as 3 psi. In fact, I hate to take a car in for a wheel alignment because a common shortcut is to adjust toe on only one front wheel and this de-centers the steering enough that I notice.
Edit (in light of Oscar's comment, posted as I was composing this post): A compressor in the trunk saved me from serious difficulties on a long drive from Washington, DC to Spencer, Massachusetts, on tires later found to be so worn out steel belts were showing. The tires were gradually deflating, so I stopped at a rest area on I-84 in Connecticut to add air to them, and this allowed me to limp to my destination and replace the tires at a time and place of my choosing.
I have a foot-powered air pump I keep in the car. It would work for slow leaks without draining the battery.
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
I saw that happening at the pump next to mine, near Umatilla OR in eastern Oregon along I-84. The upshot is the guy trying to pump his own gas was prevented from doing so, after a heated discussion with the gas jockey. I don't know exactly how that was done, but my guess is that gas jockeys can shut down your pump if necessary.
See also Jim's story upthread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21917.msg2290617#msg2290617), about what happened when he tried to pump his own gas in Oregon (not knowing about the no-self-serve law).
You might get the latest info on where and when self-serve is now allowed in Oregon, and fill up in the last such place on your itinerary. Or just plan visits to gas stations in neighboring states.
When I was in Oregon a few years ago and did not know about the full serve law, I discovered at one station that they actually had to put a code in to activate the pump.
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
It can vary greatly. Some will give you the death stare...others could care less.
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PMI'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car.
I'd just play along and supervise the jockey. I'd rather pump my own gas, but I haven't had a problem finding jockeys willing to follow my fillup procedure (bulk fill to first shutoff, slow feed to second shutoff, then slow feed to third and final shutoff) on any recent visit to Oregon. The biggest trouble I had was with a vehicle that would trip the shutoff prematurely if a rapid bulk fill was attempted, and it has not been in my ownership for 11 years now.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 10, 2018, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PMI'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car.
I'd just play along and supervise the jockey. I'd rather pump my own gas, but I haven't had a problem finding jockeys willing to follow my fillup procedure (bulk fill to first shutoff, slow feed to second shutoff, then slow feed to third and final shutoff) on any recent visit to Oregon. The biggest trouble I had was with a vehicle that would trip the shutoff prematurely if a rapid bulk fill was attempted, and it has not been in my ownership for 11 years now.
Thanks. That's what I was thinking might be the best option.
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
I have heard the fine could be as much as $500. Which just nuts considering the fact it's legal everywhere else. More abusing tickets for revenue generation no doubt.
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
Thank you for your help, but Winkler had a great answer, and I mentioned as much before your post.
Quote from: Brandon on June 12, 2018, 04:31:06 PM
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
Thank you for your help, but Winkler had a great answer, and I mentioned as much before your post.
No one mentioned the information I mentioned.
Quote from: dvferyance on June 12, 2018, 12:14:35 PM
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
I have heard the fine could be as much as $500. Which just nuts considering the fact it's legal everywhere else. More abusing tickets for revenue generation no doubt.
But how many tickets have been handed out?
In NJ, the fine is $250 I believe. And only to the station owner/attendant.
So far, in the many decades since self service was illegal, 0 tickets have been issued.
In Oregon, they don't just hand out tickets to the customer, they also hand out custodial sentences:
http://thatoregonlife.com/2015/06/oregon-man-gets-sentenced-to-3-years-in-jail-for-pumping-his-own-gas/
Admittedly, in this case I don't think it helped that the guy arrived at 1.30 AM, a slow time of night when the jockey was smoking a marijuana cigarette, or that he (the guy, not the jockey) had missing teeth and was wearing boxer shorts only.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 13, 2018, 10:34:24 AM
In Oregon, they don't just hand out tickets to the customer, they also hand out custodial sentences:
http://thatoregonlife.com/2015/06/oregon-man-gets-sentenced-to-3-years-in-jail-for-pumping-his-own-gas/
Admittedly, in this case I don't think it helped that the guy arrived at 1.30 AM, a slow time of night when the jockey was smoking a marijuana cigarette, or that he (the guy, not the jockey) had missing teeth and was wearing boxer shorts only.
You do know that's a satire site, right? It's not real news.
I don't often get fooled, but . . . ding!
However, this TV news piece mentions that there is indeed a fine to the customer for pumping his or her own gas:
http://kval.com/news/local/oddball-oregon-laws-1k-fine-for-pumping-your-own-gas
The provisions dealing with gasoline dispensing are part of ORS 480.315-480.385 (https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/480.315). As far as I can tell, the burden to prevent customer self-service is placed entirely on gas station operators in the case of customers driving cars, but in principle a customer riding a motorcycle can fall under the ORS 480.385 penalty provisions if he fails to observe the exact procedure laid out in ORS 480.349, which requires him or her to accept the nozzle from the gas jockey and then hand the nozzle back to the gas jockey once he or she is done filling his or her tank.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2018, 06:08:03 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 12, 2018, 12:14:35 PM
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
I have heard the fine could be as much as $500. Which just nuts considering the fact it's legal everywhere else. More abusing tickets for revenue generation no doubt.
But how many tickets have been handed out?
In NJ, the fine is $250 I believe. And only to the station owner/attendant.
So far, in the many decades since self service was illegal, 0 tickets have been issued.
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/05/ever_wonder_what_happens_if_youre_caught_pumping_your_own_gas_in_nj_so_did_we.html
Quote. Two summons were issued in 2013, and 15 violations resulted from 64 inspections in 2010.
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2018, 11:46:01 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 13, 2018, 06:08:03 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 12, 2018, 12:14:35 PM
Quote from: Alps on June 11, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 10, 2018, 08:01:45 PM
I'm going on a road trip out that way in August, and I'm very leery of the gas jockeys even getting close to the car. How bad is it if you even try to pump your own fuel there?
Don't. In Oregon, both you and they face significant fines if you're caught. That's why they will run over and stop you.
I have heard the fine could be as much as $500. Which just nuts considering the fact it's legal everywhere else. More abusing tickets for revenue generation no doubt.
But how many tickets have been handed out?
In NJ, the fine is $250 I believe. And only to the station owner/attendant.
So far, in the many decades since self service was illegal, 0 tickets have been issued.
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/05/ever_wonder_what_happens_if_youre_caught_pumping_your_own_gas_in_nj_so_did_we.html
Quote. Two summons were issued in 2013, and 15 violations resulted from 64 inspections in 2010.
Apparently, as mentioned, the officials were already there for other violations and witnessed these as well. At least per the article. But it definitely doesn't sound like a cop was driving by and witnessed it.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 13, 2018, 11:29:54 AM
in principle a customer riding a motorcycle can fall under the ORS 480.385 penalty provisions if he fails to observe the exact procedure laid out in ORS 480.349, which requires him or her to accept the nozzle from the gas jockey and then hand the nozzle back to the gas jockey once he or she is done filling his or her tank.
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read in my entire life. How does Oregon get away with this? At least NJ is small so they're easy to avoid. If you're going all the way across Oregon, avoiding getting gas is essentially impossible.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like getting your gas tank filled by the attendant, feel free not to visit Oregon. They fill a lot of gas tanks and their record is no worse than letting John Q. fill it up for himself.
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2018, 05:18:16 PM
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like getting your gas tank filled by the attendant, feel free not to visit Oregon. They fill a lot of gas tanks and their record is no worse than letting John Q. fill it up for himself.
My only showstopper was when I asked the guy at full service station to get me $20 worth of gas. It was: ugh, what???? OK, man, 6 gallons (or whatever it was worth back then)
Took him a while to digest as well, though... I assume most people wanted full tank?
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2018, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2018, 05:18:16 PM
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like getting your gas tank filled by the attendant, feel free not to visit Oregon. They fill a lot of gas tanks and their record is no worse than letting John Q. fill it up for himself.
My only showstopper was when I asked the guy at full service station to get me $20 worth of gas. It was: ugh, what???? OK, man, 6 gallons (or whatever it was worth back then)
Took him a while to digest as well, though... I assume most people wanted full tank?
I think people that don't live in Oregon or New Jersey can't grasp that there's real, regular people in those states, and read way too much into others reactions. I see even amounts all the time on the display when I pull up, which often indicates the person before me requested a specific amount. While I get mine filled, my wife and others say they wanted $10/$20 or whatever. Never once have I seen an attendant give any sort of reaction to it.
People in those two states get gas for lawnmowers and outdoor equipment, which means the attendant has to stand there and pump the gallon or $3 or whatever into the little red can. Again, never seen one that gets all irritated about it...they do it many times a day.
Kalvado didn't say whether this was in Oregon or New Jersey. Oregon has fuel deserts, so it makes more sense to fill to shutoff unless there is certainty that the car will be driven only in areas where gas stations are easy to find.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 14, 2018, 01:23:21 PM
Kalvado didn't say whether this was in Oregon or New Jersey. Oregon has fuel deserts, so it makes more sense to fill to shutoff unless there is certainty that the car will be driven only in areas where gas stations are easy to find.
NY. There are some rare spots with full service - and that was an even more rare one: full service with discount.
Gradually degraded (upgraded?) to self-service within a few months as people are not used to full service over here.
A few years ago I waited behind one person at the gas pump at Crater Lake National Park. When they were done, I pulled forward and started using the gas pump, like the motorist in front of me. Then I realized, "Hey, I'm in Oregon, and I'm pumping my own gas!" Maybe the federal rules supersede the state ones in a National Park.
Another time, just south of Portland I pulled up to a pump at a convenience store, and waited for the cashier to come out. He asked if I wanted him to dispense gas, and I almost told him, "I think you have to." Maybe he saw my Washington plates and hoped I would just pump it myself.
Took the trip last week. In the western counties, I found it best to pay cash, but it actually worked better than I thought it would. The attendants were friendly (at least at Safeway and Fred Meyer where I got fuel - they're 30-60 cents cheaper than the so-called "name-brand" stations) and the process was painless.
I then got fuel in Ontario, Oregon (Malheur County). There was an attendant at the truck stop there; however, he was helping Oregonians from the west who were uncomfortable pumping their own fuel while letting locals and out-of-staters (like me) pump their own. Malheur County is one of those allowed to have self-service 24/7.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on July 02, 2018, 10:23:21 AM
A few years ago I waited behind one person at the gas pump at Crater Lake National Park. When they were done, I pulled forward and started using the gas pump, like the motorist in front of me. Then I realized, "Hey, I'm in Oregon, and I'm pumping my own gas!" Maybe the federal rules supersede the state ones in a National Park.
You have also been able to pump your own gas at gas stations located on Indian reservations (subject to Tribal law). I know many people who stop at the Wildhorse Casino on I-84 or the Seven Feathers Casino on I-5 to pump their own gas...
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2018, 06:26:18 PM
My only showstopper was when I asked the guy at full service station to get me $20 worth of gas. It was: ugh, what???? OK, man, 6 gallons (or whatever it was worth back then)
Took him a while to digest as well, though... I assume most people wanted full tank?
In Mexico (no self-service there), a lot of pumps allow the pump jockey to enter either a total number of pesos or a total number of liters by keypad, and then the pump automatically shuts off once it reaches that limit. No need to babysit the pump.
When I've driven in Eastern Oregon, nearly every place I've been to still does not allow self serve. The Pilot in Stanfield and the Safeway Gas in Pendleton I've been to after the law allowed it 24/7, and the Shell in Burns and Pilot in Ontario I've been when self serve was allowed 6 PM to 6 AM. All those either stopped me when I tried to pump my own, or came to my car before I could have had the chance. The one place I know that does allow self serve (besides Indian reservations) is the Love's in Boardman (though I've only been there after 6 PM, I assume they would have expanded it to 24/7 by now). I don't remember about the Love's in Ontario or the Pilot in Biggs (I know I've been to those, but don't remember details). Kind of annoying, especially since some of those places can get really busy on holiday weekends and you just have to wait there and cause worse traffic.
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2018, 06:26:18 PM
My only showstopper was when I asked the guy at full service station to get me $20 worth of gas. It was: ugh, what???? OK, man, 6 gallons (or whatever it was worth back then)
Took him a while to digest as well, though... I assume most people wanted full tank?
In Mexico (no self-service there), a lot of pumps allow the pump jockey to enter either a total number of pesos or a total number of liters by keypad, and then the pump automatically shuts off once it reaches that limit. No need to babysit the pump.
Exxon stations around here used to have a feature like that, including at self-serve pumps–there were some preprogrammed dollar amounts and you either pushed the button next to one of those or you pushed the "FULL" button to tell it you wanted a full tank. I almost never buy Exxon these days because they tend to be more expensive than most other brands of gas, and also because there is no Exxon station that's particularly convenient to my house (whereas in the 1990s a now-demolished Exxon on Route 236 was the easiest station for me to access), so I can't confirm for sure those pumps are all gone, but I haven't seen one in many years. My impression was that most people didn't use the dollar-amount feature and just opted to fill the tank. I suppose gas also costs a lot more now than it did when I used Exxon more frequently back in the 1990s, such that having a button to cut it off at $10.00 would be kind of pointless because you'd only get just over three gallons of fuel.