Largest differences in maintenance/road design between state DOT divisions

Started by index, September 12, 2019, 03:19:33 AM

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index

Which state transportation agencies have the most amount of variation between how their internal divisions design and maintain roads? Here in North Carolina, across DOT divisions, everything is very uniform with only a few minute differences. However some places like Florida seem to have a noticeable amount of variation between FDOT divisions in how roads are designed and maintained.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled


Brandon

Illinois. Nine DOT districts and the Tollway (ISTHA).  You'd swear there are ten different DOTs within the state at times.

District 1, Schaumburg
Used brown gantries in the 1980s/90s with full height signs a la California: https://goo.gl/maps/vNMmcrvrx6KSRvtb8 & https://goo.gl/maps/s2Vuh3XyfksqdHky9 (yes, that is button copy)
Historically has used mileposts like this: https://goo.gl/maps/6sNm2TmdzvNkizvb9
Now being replaced with ones like this: https://goo.gl/maps/cxcrh67xAVzKNWc69
Two-lane reflectorization patterns: https://goo.gl/maps/ywGpExSoiKM2atfGA https://goo.gl/maps/wLuqNsuB95MWEf6P9
District 2, Dixon
Posts curve advisory speeds like this: https://goo.gl/maps/2yPc8hmaMXKjeFqp9
District 3, Ottawa
D1/D3 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/kPGvjtzYRBj1aThh8
D3/D5 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/xnxCVud9vD6zrdLn9
Perfected the center-mounted Clearview tab: https://goo.gl/maps/mikYpKy6eYShDhct6
District 4, Peoria
Uses FYAs extensively: https://goo.gl/maps/42BRKPj4QDhbWQnJ8
Uses next exit signage like this in urban areas (Peoria): https://goo.gl/maps/n4mqEP3Ry9XcnT9Y9
District 5, Paris
Seems to have no clue to to plow/de-ice a road in the winter.
A preponderance of older signage with center-mounted tabs: https://goo.gl/maps/XMnLWbmbkraE18om7
District 6, Springfield
Uses the yellow border on signals more often than the other districts: https://goo.gl/maps/v1kLXvGgHwaSxjm37 https://goo.gl/maps/YagZL8XkAabav4DW6
Has three of the four interstate business loops in the state.
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white
District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9
District 9, Carbondale
https://goo.gl/maps/as9WnLpX18hnhBnd7
A lack of side-mounted reflectors (acting more southern than northern): https://goo.gl/maps/KdYuPELzZqb6hFoB8
Illinois State Toll Highway Authority
Mileposting (every 1/4 mile): https://goo.gl/maps/BATM86DYyXT6ZV8N8
Readily adopted APL signage: https://goo.gl/maps/B28HjF9LsiwmkagM8 & https://goo.gl/maps/GxnAHmt7gVNgjVYQ7
Striping (3:3 ratio): https://goo.gl/maps/3Hceft5ZWpq5ivHT9
First "smart" road in Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/4hFiBTaQajgf61g78
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

ozarkman417

Instead of using welcome signs for knowing when I cross a state line, I use changes in the pavement.

SM-G965U
Missouri mile markers only appear on expressways and appear every 0.2 miles, while most other states go by every mile and don't include info like route number and direction.

ftballfan

The one thing I can think of regarding Michigan is that the University district uses intermediate control cities along I-94 in Jackson and Washtenaw counties from non-freeways (using Marshall, Jackson, and Ann Arbor instead of Detroit (which is still used for EB 94 east of A2) and Chicago; US-23 and US-127 still use Detroit and Chicago)

Max Rockatansky

Caltrans tends to vary quite a bit regarding maintenance from district to district.  District 6 seems to come up often as probably the best or one of the better districts for maintenance standards.  The rabbit hole with Caltrans is pretty deep and probably best referred to the California thread on the Pacific Southwest board. 

Brandon

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

oscar

In Hawaii, the most noticeable difference among its DOT's four districts is that the Kauai district has the best signage in the state, including but not limited to the strongest metric signage. Its county counterpart similarly has the best signage among the four counties with county-maintained roads.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Hot Rod Hootenanny

For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

ilpt4u

Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM
Illinois. Nine DOT districts and the Tollway (ISTHA).  You'd swear there are ten different DOTs within the state at times.

District 1, Schaumburg
Used brown gantries in the 1980s/90s with full height signs a la California: https://goo.gl/maps/vNMmcrvrx6KSRvtb8 & https://goo.gl/maps/s2Vuh3XyfksqdHky9 (yes, that is button copy)
Historically has used mileposts like this: https://goo.gl/maps/6sNm2TmdzvNkizvb9
Now being replaced with ones like this: https://goo.gl/maps/cxcrh67xAVzKNWc69
Two-lane reflectorization patterns: https://goo.gl/maps/ywGpExSoiKM2atfGA https://goo.gl/maps/wLuqNsuB95MWEf6P9
District 2, Dixon
Posts curve advisory speeds like this: https://goo.gl/maps/2yPc8hmaMXKjeFqp9
District 3, Ottawa
D1/D3 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/kPGvjtzYRBj1aThh8
D3/D5 boundary: https://goo.gl/maps/xnxCVud9vD6zrdLn9
Perfected the center-mounted Clearview tab: https://goo.gl/maps/mikYpKy6eYShDhct6
District 4, Peoria
Uses FYAs extensively: https://goo.gl/maps/42BRKPj4QDhbWQnJ8
Uses next exit signage like this in urban areas (Peoria): https://goo.gl/maps/n4mqEP3Ry9XcnT9Y9
District 5, Paris
Seems to have no clue to to plow/de-ice a road in the winter.
A preponderance of older signage with center-mounted tabs: https://goo.gl/maps/XMnLWbmbkraE18om7
District 6, Springfield
Uses the yellow border on signals more often than the other districts: https://goo.gl/maps/v1kLXvGgHwaSxjm37 https://goo.gl/maps/YagZL8XkAabav4DW6
Has three of the four interstate business loops in the state.
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white
District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9
District 9, Carbondale
https://goo.gl/maps/as9WnLpX18hnhBnd7
A lack of side-mounted reflectors (acting more southern than northern): https://goo.gl/maps/KdYuPELzZqb6hFoB8
Illinois State Toll Highway Authority
Mileposting (every 1/4 mile): https://goo.gl/maps/BATM86DYyXT6ZV8N8
Readily adopted APL signage: https://goo.gl/maps/B28HjF9LsiwmkagM8 & https://goo.gl/maps/GxnAHmt7gVNgjVYQ7
Striping (3:3 ratio): https://goo.gl/maps/3Hceft5ZWpq5ivHT9
First "smart" road in Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/4hFiBTaQajgf61g78
Having lived within D1 (and around ISTHA), D4, D5, and now D9...

This list is OK...the adoption of the FYA really stands out in D4

D9 choosing to use "Interstate 57"  as a Control for I-24 West, instead of either Marion (Termination point @ I-57) or St Louis (used previously in Kentucky...does get 1 mention approaching the termination @ I-57) is odd. Especially since I-24 East gets the "typical"  Primary/Secondary Control setup of Nashville/Metropolis then Paducah

D9 also seems to omit "Directional"  Banners on Route Shields more frequently than others

I will give D9 credit for the use of the SPUI and DDI Interchange designs for sequential Interchanges along I-57 in Marion, at IL 13 and The Hill Ave, South to North

D1 and ISTHA using *Directional* Suburbs and the states of Indiana, Wisconsin, and Iowa as Controls is also a bit unique

Nothing really stood out "different"  about D5 while I lived there, signage, signal, or pavement wise. I believe Indianapolis is used as a Control along I-72 East...but that just makes me wonder more why D9 won't use St Louis (or Marion) as a Control for I-24

hbelkins

In Kentucky, there really isn't any difference in maintenance or design between the districts. The real differences are in signage. Districts 4, 8, and 12 still use circles for three-digit routes instead of ovals or ellipses. District 12 had still been using circles for four-digit routes until recently, but unfortunately, they are using more wide markers for them -- and also US 460 markers. I prefer square markers with narrower fonts than the wide markers.

West Virginia is pretty uniform across the state, although a couple of places will sign county routes with tiny circular markers not much wider than the posts they're mounted on.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ftballfan

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 12, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.
District 2 also put exit numbers on US-6 and OH-2 on their freeway portions (until this year, OH-2 exit numbers stopped at the Erie/Ottawa county line)

tdindy88

Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2019, 01:47:59 PM
In Hawaii, the most noticeable difference among its DOT's four districts is that the Kauai district has the best signage in the state, including but not limited to the strongest metric signage. Its county counterpart similarly has the best signage among the four counties with county-maintained roads.

Having been on all four islands over the summer I can generally agree about Kauai. But I found the signage along the Big Island (I'm guessing it'd be Hawaii district?) to be pretty strong as well. There were mile markers with metric measurements on them. There was a consistent use of elevation signage (in both feet and meters) and big green guide signs at the junctions of roadways throughout the island. The signs were the typical size one would find at an interstate off-ramp. Along the Hawaii Belt Road there seemed to be a consistent control city setup with Hilo, Honokaa, Waimea, Kailua and Volcano.

Super Mateo

Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM
District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6
Used the brown gantries quite a bit, but differently than D1: https://goo.gl/maps/Kfuzoyny6YmwXePf9

D8 was also the one not using stop bar or far left signals, which made them non-compliant with Illinois' MUTCD due to having only one set of left arrows.  Having searched GSV, it appears someone made an effort to fix most of those.

GCrites

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 12, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.

District 9 (South Central) signs a lot of things as being 1/3 of a mile away which is something I don't see in the rest of the state.

District 7 (West Central including Dayton) allows much more unusual bridge designs and interchange finishing than surrounding districts.

Revive 755



Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white

I think that is the new IDOT standard, and will be appearing throughout the state.  I thought I just saw it somewhere in District 3, but Streetview does not appear to have it.

District 8, Collinsville
Mileposting in urban areas: https://goo.gl/maps/D3yXefATdCfdrFaj6[/quote]

District 5 uses these in Bloomington-Normal on I-55.  Streetview.


Additionally For District 1:
* Does not appear to use the postmile signs (example) much anymore, even in the remaining rural parts of the district.
* Much less use of the city/village boundary signs (example from D-3)
* Much uses 'ONLY' in almost all single movement turn lanes and fewer arrows. Compare this example from District 1 to this one from District 2

J N Winkler

In regard to Illinois DOT, it is worth noting that District 1 (Chicago) has its own signing manual.

Kansas has five districts, with no substantial differences among them in terms of signing or pavement quality.  Nearly all design, including all freeway guide signing, is handled out of KDOT HQ.  However, Northeast Kansas (containing the Kansas side of metro KC) is a "tail wagging the dog" district because of the size and complexity of its portion of the state highway system.  Measures that have made their first appearances in Kansas in this district include part-time bus use of the shoulder, ramp metering, noise walls, and nonstandard APL diagrammatic variants.

The districts that cover western Kansas are more likely to use square washers to bolt panel signs to posts, which helps spread wind load but does nothing for visual appearance.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

ilpt4u

Quote from: Revive 755 on September 13, 2019, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white

I think that is the new IDOT standard, and will be appearing throughout the state.  I thought I just saw it somewhere in District 3, but Streetview does not appear to have it.
The only other Diagrammatic signs that ring a bell in IL for me are:

I-294 North/I-80 West, approaching their split/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/NdQcJ5hyCreSEPJm6

I-355 South @ I-55/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/jLfBNxY5tsouvu8j7

ISTHA kinda uses diagrammatic signs for the ORT tollbooth signs: https://goo.gl/maps/m4uJ3FsFH3DsNGs36

I-55 North, approaching the Southwest I-55/I-72 Interchange/D6: https://goo.gl/maps/ndhxCECvqRSnVJs77

marleythedog

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 12, 2019, 04:24:10 PM
For Ohio, signage.
Seems like the districts, outside of the 3-C cities, like to use horizontal direction panels (with extra wide US & Ohio shields in the middle).
NW Ohio (ODOT districts 1 & 2) like to use sign trees, something you don't see in the rest of the state.
ODOT district 2 is also the one that used extra far control cities in the mileage signs along I-75.

District 8 (Cincinnati metro):
Posts a lot of exit gore signs and speed limit signs on a single breakaway signpost
Their exit tabs have much more spacing around them than in D7 (Dayton) and AFAIK the rest of western Ohio.
Blue distance markers in Cincinnati are every tenth of a mile instead of two tenths (though I think their use predates anywhere else in Ohio)
Every BGS gets a blue inventory plaque.

District 7:
Quote from: GCrites80s on September 13, 2019, 09:30:39 PM
District 7 (West Central including Dayton) allows much more unusual bridge designs and interchange finishing than surrounding districts.

I've wondered about this; didn't realize it's a D7 peculiarity. There are instances where two consecutive overpasses were replaced the same year on 75 but have completely different designs.

D7 has numerous exit gore signs that are either one Clearview-one FHWA numeral or missing their exit number. They seem to get taken out so often it's like they stopped caring.

D7 eradicated most of its bridge-mounted signs almost 15 years ago and replaced them with ground-mounted (even on 3+ lane carriageways). I think D8 has recently started replacing them with sign bridges. Maybe this was a change in state standards, but one was either very early or very late to the party.

(I think) District 1 along I-75 in has the only labeling of under/overpasses that I'm aware of.

debragga

In Texas, the Dallas district doesn't sign any rural 2-lane roads higher than 65mph, while the neighboring Tyler district signs them up to the state maximum of 75mph. It's very noticeable when crossing from Kaufman County to Van Zandt county on TX 243.

thspfc

The title is a bit misleading.
Anyways, for Wisconsin I would say that the largest difference is the surface of road they use in different parts of the state. In Northern WI it's a darker pavement, and southern WI is usually lighter concrete.

index

I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

wxfree

Quote from: debragga on September 16, 2019, 06:40:56 PM
In Texas, the Dallas district doesn't sign any rural 2-lane roads higher than 65mph, while the neighboring Tyler district signs them up to the state maximum of 75mph. It's very noticeable when crossing from Kaufman County to Van Zandt county on TX 243.

I would attribute that observation to the environmental speed limits, which capped limits at 65 for 15 years, along with the lack of rural areas in which higher speeds are suitable for two-lane roads, however, the Dallas district also includes Navarro County, in which part of SH 22 has a speed limit of 75 with two lanes.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

ftballfan

Quote from: wxfree on September 17, 2019, 06:04:14 PM
Quote from: debragga on September 16, 2019, 06:40:56 PM
In Texas, the Dallas district doesn't sign any rural 2-lane roads higher than 65mph, while the neighboring Tyler district signs them up to the state maximum of 75mph. It's very noticeable when crossing from Kaufman County to Van Zandt county on TX 243.

I would attribute that observation to the environmental speed limits, which capped limits at 65 for 15 years, along with the lack of rural areas in which higher speeds are suitable for two-lane roads, however, the Dallas district also includes Navarro County, in which part of SH 22 has a speed limit of 75 with two lanes.
Speaking of speed limit differences, almost all of Michigan's 65 mph 2-lane roads are in the Superior and North regions, despite there being plenty of roads in the other regions that could easily support 65 (I've driven stretches of M-52, M-66, M-79, M-50, M-86, M-45, M-20, M-82, etc. that should be 65 IMHO). The only two 65 mph 2-lane roads I can think of that are outside those two regions are in the Grand Region:
M-37 north of US-10 in Lake County (Lake County was in the North Region until a couple of years ago)
M-231 in Ottawa County (Super 2; only one intersection and several overpasses between its termini)

Revive 755

Quote from: ilpt4u on September 14, 2019, 12:42:01 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 13, 2019, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2019, 06:20:58 AM
District 7, Effingham
Uses diagrammatic signage at interstate splits: https://goo.gl/maps/mxxsS7aPQvsDso7m8
Lane striping: https://goo.gl/maps/yMjuKz4GaUq6XRPo7 - black alongside white

I think that is the new IDOT standard, and will be appearing throughout the state.  I thought I just saw it somewhere in District 3, but Streetview does not appear to have it.

I just realized my quote was unclear - I was referring to the contrast pavement markings, not the diagrammatic signs.  The latter can be found in most, if not all of the IDOT Districts.

Quote from: ilpt4u on September 14, 2019, 12:42:01 AM
The only other Diagrammatic signs that ring a bell in IL for me are:

I-294 North/I-80 West, approaching their split/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/NdQcJ5hyCreSEPJm6

I-355 South @ I-55/ISTHA: https://goo.gl/maps/jLfBNxY5tsouvu8j7

ISTHA kinda uses diagrammatic signs for the ORT tollbooth signs: https://goo.gl/maps/m4uJ3FsFH3DsNGs36

I-55 North, approaching the Southwest I-55/I-72 Interchange/D6: https://goo.gl/maps/ndhxCECvqRSnVJs77

* SB I-55/WB I-70 at I-255
* NB I-57/WB I-64 prior to the north split at Mount Vernon
* Isn't there a new one on NB I-55 shortly before I-155 splits off?
* SB I-55/EB I-74 prior to the southern split in Bloomington
* EB I-74/EB I-280 west of the I-80 interchange
* WB I-474 approaching the I-74/IL 6 interchange
* WB US 20 approaching the Business 20 interchange on the east side of Freeport

Pink Jazz

I know in Virginia dynamic message signs seem to be inconsistent across districts - the Richmond District has been using full matrix LED for many years, while the Hampton Roads district did not adopt it until more recently.  Also, Richmond tends to display messages in a bold font.



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