NFL (2024 Season)

[Ted$8roadFan]

I did not see Pete Carrol's "reassignment" upstairs coming.

[webny99]

Wow, just realized the Jags' choke in Week 18 prevented all four teams that have never been to a Super Bowl from appearing in the playoffs this season. The other three (Browns, Lions, and Texans) are in the playoffs.

[Big John]

Belichick is leaving the Patriots.

[thspfc]

The collective reactions to the Belichick and Carroll news have been a lot milder than the collective reaction to the Vrabel news . . . both Belichick and Carroll are far, far more accomplished than Vrabel. Make it make sense.  "Well, they're good coaches, but it was time to move on." Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying about Vrabel - and he's proved absolutely nothing about his coaching abilities in comparison to those guys.

Do I think Vrabel is a bad coach? Absolutely not. With a good offensive coordinator, he could have a lot of success with, for example, the Chargers. Do I disagree with the Titans' decision to fire him? . . . no. The team has gone stale and this is a needed reboot.

I think them being stale and needing a reboot is because the roster is bad, not because the coaching is bad. Vrabel is now one of the top coaches available, so it's a pretty big risk. They're letting him go in hopes of hitting a home run on an unknown replacement, but it seems more likely that the replacement is worse than Vrabel.

I never said the coaching was bad. And I agree that it's not going to be easy to find someone better than him - but trying to do so is the only logical choice, because, from what I said on the last page, I don't believe Vrabel was ever going to have a chance to win a Super Bowl in Tennessee. It was not working.

Of course, if Vrabel succeeds as a head coach elsewhere while the Titans continue to sputter, then that raises the question of whether he was actually at any fault for the team's decline over the past few years. But based on his background, his demeanor, and how it's been on the field, I think some of that blame does fall on him.

I am curious how much blame you think falls on Vrabel. The team went downhill after the AJ Brown trade, and they brought in a new GM last season which usually means a roster reboot. I'm not sure there's any coach who get more than 6 wins and competitive December football out of that roster.

Estimating which rosters are good and which ones are not, and in turn basing coaching evaluations off that, is always a very uncertain science. Honestly, I think that the perception is based on whether or not a team plays a lot of nationally televised games. If a team is on TV a lot but loses a lot, people will assume coaching is the problem (because they're on TV for a reason, right?). If they're always playing at noon on Sunday, people will assume they're bad, and if they win games, it's because of coaching. Fantasy football also factors into it - Henry and an aging DHop were their only viable fantasy options this year, so the fantasy hivemind extrapolates that across the entire team.

Not to mention, winning 6 games is not a tall task. A really bad NFL roster should go about 4-13. With how slim the margin between winning and losing is in many games, a team that "should" win 4 - assuming that's actually the case for Tennessee's current roster - is not super unlikely to win 6, even if the coaching is average. That's why I think this season was neither a success nor a failure for Vrabel. 6 wins is never going to be a feather in a coach's cap, but in this situation it wasn't a fireable offense either. If he was safe after 2022, he should have been safe after this year, but he wasn't, and that leads to my theory that this has been in the works for two years.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Seahawks management overestimate how good their team is.  Carroll has been the one coaching them into being competitive.

Belichick ought to just to retire.  At this point it is clear he can't get things done anymore.

[webny99]

The collective reactions to the Belichick and Carroll news have been a lot milder than the collective reaction to the Vrabel news . . . both Belichick and Carroll are far, far more accomplished than Vrabel. Make it make sense.  "Well, they're good coaches, but it was time to move on." Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying about Vrabel - and he's proved absolutely nothing about his coaching abilities in comparison to those guys.

The difference is that Belichick and Pete Carroll are old, so they've been collectively viewed as past their prime for years now. They may still be "good coaches" but don't necessarily provide a schematic advantage a la McVay or Shanahan in today's NFL. I think Vrabel is actually somewhat similar despite being much younger - really good at the "coaching" things like game management, leadership, and having the team ready to play, but didn't necessarily bring a high level offensive staff (outside of Arthur Smith, and even that is now questionable) or any distinct offensive coaching advantage. They hadn't scored 30 points since Halloween of 2021 (over two full seasons ago!), which is just outrageous. Even the floating Panthers put up 30 once this year in a completely lost season.

Do I think Vrabel is a bad coach? Absolutely not. With a good offensive coordinator, he could have a lot of success with, for example, the Chargers. Do I disagree with the Titans' decision to fire him? . . . no. The team has gone stale and this is a needed reboot.

I think them being stale and needing a reboot is because the roster is bad, not because the coaching is bad. Vrabel is now one of the top coaches available, so it's a pretty big risk. They're letting him go in hopes of hitting a home run on an unknown replacement, but it seems more likely that the replacement is worse than Vrabel.

I never said the coaching was bad. And I agree that it's not going to be easy to find someone better than him - but trying to do so is the only logical choice, because, from what I said on the last page, I don't believe Vrabel was ever going to have a chance to win a Super Bowl in Tennessee. It was not working.

I agree that he probably wasn't going to win a Super Bowl in Tennessee, but trying to upgrade when you know you have a good one already is just a really tricky needle to thread.

[mgk920]

The Seahawks management overestimate how good their team is.  Carroll has been the one coaching them into being competitive.

Belichick ought to just to retire.  At this point it is clear he can't get things done anymore.

Tom Brady in his prime WAS the Patriots.

Mike

[Max Rockatansky]

The Seahawks management overestimate how good their team is.  Carroll has been the one coaching them into being competitive.

Belichick ought to just to retire.  At this point it is clear he can't get things done anymore.

Tom Brady in his prime WAS the Patriots.

Mike

What's interesting is that there is a fair data set on Belichick before Brady.  He was 36-44 in Cleveland with his best coaching year coming during the 11 win 1994 season.  I wouldn't call that a terrible record considering it was the Browns, but there wasn't much to suggest he was some sort of diamond in the rough.  His career really took off once Tom Brady became the Patriots starter after Drew Bledsoe got hurt.

Conversely I'd argue Pete Carroll got quite a bit out of Drew Bledsoe.  Russell Wilson and Geno Smith both sure looked way better with Carroll as their head coach. 

[triplemultiplex]

This is great, all three of my least favorite coaches are out in football.  Belichick, Saban and Carroll.   Late Christmas present for me!

[webny99]

This is great, all three of my least favorite coaches are out in football.  Belichick, Saban and Carroll.   Late Christmas present for me!

The first two I understand but what's wrong with Pete Carroll?

[thspfc]

This is great, all three of my least favorite coaches are out in football.  Belichick, Saban and Carroll.   Late Christmas present for me!

The first two I understand but what's wrong with Pete Carroll?

Being a WI resident, I'm gonna guess 2014 NFC Championship.

[Ted$8roadFan]

I will never forget Pete Carroll finally coming through for the Patriots in SB 49.

[Big John]

This is great, all three of my least favorite coaches are out in football.  Belichick, Saban and Carroll.   Late Christmas present for me!

The first two I understand but what's wrong with Pete Carroll?

Being a WI resident, I'm gonna guess 2014 NFC Championship.

Or the Fail Mary.
BTW, your location says MN.

[jgb191]

If you're going to fire a Head Coach or General Manager, who is going to replace them??  If I was an owner I would consider all available candidates before parting ways with the incumbent coach/GM.  If you fire someone with no replacement in mind, it's only going to set the team back.  If you're incumbent coach is bad, then what if the next coach is worse?  If you keep firing  them one-by-one after a single-season trial, then no one would want the job.  "Failing to Prepare" = "Preparing to Fail"

-------------------------------------

Even though the Texans team is the only division champion underdog, there is a tremendous excitement for this playoff game like never felt before....almost like the biggest game in franchise history type of vibe.  I would not be shocked nor disappointed if the Texans came up short, after all it is a Super Bowl MVP (Flacco), vs a first-timer playoff game (Stroud).  But this game will be a lot closer than the Christmas Eve game, when the Texans lost by two TDs.  It could even come down to the last minute or two.  I still believe DeMeco Ryans has earned the Coach of the Year honors, but if the Texans pull off the upset win, then he will be a lock for the award.

[webny99]

If you're going to fire a Head Coach or General Manager, who is going to replace them??  If I was an owner I would consider all available candidates before parting ways with the incumbent coach/GM.  If you fire someone with no replacement in mind, it's only going to set the team back.  If you're incumbent coach is bad, then what if the next coach is worse?  If you keep firing  them one-by-one after a single-season trial, then no one would want the job.  "Failing to Prepare" = "Preparing to Fail"

-------------------------------------

Even though the Texans team is the only division champion underdog, there is a tremendous excitement for this playoff game like never felt before....almost like the biggest game in franchise history type of vibe.  I would not be shocked nor disappointed if the Texans came up short, after all it is a Super Bowl MVP (Flacco), vs a first-timer playoff game (Stroud).  But this game will be a lot closer than the Christmas Eve game, when the Texans lost by two TDs.  It could even come down to the last minute or two.  I still believe DeMeco Ryans has earned the Coach of the Year honors, but if the Texans pull off the upset win, then he will be a lock for the award.

The Bucs are also underdogs as division champions. I agree the Texans could keep this game much closer with Stroud on the field this time, however, that won't factor in to the COTY or any other season awards as those are all voted on this week and based on the regular season only.

[Henry]

Wow! Eight head coach openings for this season alone. That has to be a record, is it? (and if it isn't, what is?)

[ozarkman417]

It's all well and good for Chiefs fans in KC, but their market is geographically much larger than that.  What if you live in Wichita or Omaha?  Springfield?  Jeff City?
It's a cynical loss-leader to force people to get another streaming service for one event.  If you have to coerce people into buying your product, you're doing something wrong.

As someone who lives in Springfield, I'll check if the local NBC station has the game.

I know of some people who are at least considering freezing their ass off at Arrowhead this weekend, because the tickets are only 50 bucks.

[Big John]

Wow! Eight head coach openings for this season alone. That has to be a record, is it? (and if it isn't, what is?)

record is 10, set 4 times most recently after 2021.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Wow! Eight head coach openings for this season alone. That has to be a record, is it? (and if it isn't, what is?)

record is 10, set 4 times most recently after 2021.

While not setting a record, the turnover this year seems more significant due to the departures of Belichick (expected) and Carroll (not quite as expected), as well as Nick Saban from Alabama. Also, besides natural turnover due to age and long tenures, it looks as though teams are prioritizing offensive-minded coaches instead of defensive-minded coaches.

[Big John]

Pats owner choice for new coach:

[74/171FAN]

I am sure Patrick loves Mayo being a head coach, but what about Squidward?   

[triplemultiplex]

The first two I understand but what's wrong with Pete Carroll?

This is going to sound silly because a lot of coaches get all on the refs for stuff, even when the coach is clearly wrong, but when Carroll does it, there's something about how animated he gets that makes me wish someone would punch him in the face and tell him to STFU.  He's so over the top, it's the coach equivalent of a player flopping to draw a penalty.

I don't hold those Packer losses against Carroll.  The Fail Mary; that was just incompetent scab refs.  I'm more mad at the guys on "our" side of the line for those other post season L's.

But I'm also sore about that Super Bowl against New England.  Idiotic play call gave another ring to that cheating, smarmy douche.  Just hand it off to fucking Beast Mode! DUH!!

[74/171FAN]

But I'm also sore about that Super Bowl against New England.  Idiotic play call gave another ring to that cheating, smarmy douche.  Just hand it off to fucking Beast Mode! DUH!!

I actually rooted for the Patriots in that one because I was so mad about the NFC Championship Game.

[triplemultiplex]

I would have cheered for Al Qaeda in a game against the Tom Brady New England Patriots.

[Billy F 1988]

I would have cheered for Al Qaeda in a game against the Tom Brady New England Patriots.

Aaaaaayyyy! Whoa, brother! Let's tick it down a notch. Not quite the smart idea to imply the most powerful terrorist organization into a joke.