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Who Is Working United States Thanksgiving X? (2022 Edition)

Started by ZLoth, November 19, 2022, 09:11:24 AM

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formulanone

#25
Quote from: Takumi on November 19, 2022, 07:48:18 PM
I volunteered to work half a shift. Visas ain't free.

...for everything else, there's Mastercard.

Looking back, I've never worked Thanksgiving since holding a job when I was 15. Been fortunate to only have one job which was open on Thanksgiving, but there were always volunteers.

Closest thing was my wife working a shift at an emergency veterinary clinic in 2000; they had a spread of Thanksgiving goodies so we had a feast in the break room during a quiet work shift (2pm-10pm).


Scott5114

Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.

I remember being called in one day, told the manager I could be in *around* 1. I was sitting at the stoplight in front of the store at like 12:59 and he starts blowing up my phone ostensibly to ask where I was. I was not thrilled.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.

I remember being called in one day, told the manager I could be in *around* 1. I was sitting at the stoplight in front of the store at like 12:59 and he starts blowing up my phone ostensibly to ask where I was. I was not thrilled.

My payroll clerk gets on my case every couple weeks if I don't explain why one of my people is 1-2 minutes late.  I've told her about 60 times in the past seven years that I don't care about nominal things like that.  Definitely isn't something that is a popular mindset regarding the hourly people where I work.

ZLoth

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.

I remember being called in one day, told the manager I could be in *around* 1. I was sitting at the stoplight in front of the store at like 12:59 and he starts blowing up my phone ostensibly to ask where I was. I was not thrilled.

From my message above, I lead a very small team that works extremely hard. I hold them accountable, they hold me accountable, and they are encouraged to be honest. While I will call them on a weekend shift when they are running late, especially a shift which I'm handing off to them, I will wait ten-fifteen minutes. Usually, it involves Murphy. It's when you are running late, don't notify me, and I can't get in touch with you that we have issues.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 20, 2022, 08:13:23 PMMy payroll clerk gets on my case every couple weeks if I don't explain why one of my people is 1-2 minutes late.  I've told her about 60 times in the past seven years that I don't care about nominal things like that. Definitely isn't something that is a popular mindset regarding the hourly people where I work.

Sorry, no. If I start going after people for being 75 seconds late, I may lose them when they might have to work late. All I really care about is solving the customer's issues, updating the customer on a timely basis, and resolving cases.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Scott5114

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 20, 2022, 08:13:23 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.

I remember being called in one day, told the manager I could be in *around* 1. I was sitting at the stoplight in front of the store at like 12:59 and he starts blowing up my phone ostensibly to ask where I was. I was not thrilled.

My payroll clerk gets on my case every couple weeks if I don't explain why one of my people is 1-2 minutes late.  I've told her about 60 times in the past seven years that I don't care about nominal things like that.  Definitely isn't something that is a popular mindset regarding the hourly people where I work.

You should ask her what exactly she expects people to get done in that extra 60-120 seconds. That's something I've never been able to get those sorts of people to explain.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Hot Rod Hootenanny

For the first time in 11 years, I won't be working on Thanksgiving.
But I am working on my birthday, this Friday, so I'm expecting 48 tributes from each of you.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

JoePCool14

My company is closed on Thanksgiving and the next day too, so no work for me. Despite working in grocery for '17, '18, and '19, I requested Thanksgiving off and got it off.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
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formulanone

#33
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 08:47:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 20, 2022, 08:13:23 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 20, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 20, 2022, 07:53:05 AM
They have a volunteer shift at my job Thanksgiving night, but I will not be doing that. One of my now former coworkers volunteered, but managed to get fired after volunteering.

Gotta love ungrateful managers like that.

Like the time I got asked to work 2nd shift on a Wednesday (I normally worked 3rd shift and had Wednesdays off), ran into traffic I wasn't expecting (you know, because I normally didn't come in at that time) and got written up for being late. :rolleyes: That was the last time I agreed to pick up extra shifts.

I remember being called in one day, told the manager I could be in *around* 1. I was sitting at the stoplight in front of the store at like 12:59 and he starts blowing up my phone ostensibly to ask where I was. I was not thrilled.

My payroll clerk gets on my case every couple weeks if I don't explain why one of my people is 1-2 minutes late.  I've told her about 60 times in the past seven years that I don't care about nominal things like that.  Definitely isn't something that is a popular mindset regarding the hourly people where I work.

You should ask her what exactly she expects people to get done in that extra 60-120 seconds. That's something I've never been able to get those sorts of people to explain.

It's a case of "give 'em an inch and they'll take a foot" which has created the HR industry in the first place. Sometimes it's warranted, but mostly it is not. But they love staggering-but-useless statistics such if everyone was two minutes late, it would mean that 7 million hours of National productivity are lost.

I have some nagging coworkers who prefer we always arrive 15 minutes early because the Marines do it that way (last I checked, we aren't acting in that kind of urgency and necessity). Look, if you want to plan on being there early if you have an exceptionally long commute, that's fine. I've found that 5 minutes early is enough or you're waiting around for everyone else who isn't ready.

JoePCool14

I think it depends on the industry. If I arrive at my current job two minutes late, it's probably not a huge deal (though I do my best to come early).

When I worked in grocery, I helped managed the front end. When someone showed up 5 minutes late, it meant that I had to wait to send someone on their break. Then when everyone comes back from their breaks late, the problem compounds. Some days, it's not so bad. If we were tight on help, it made things more difficult. It also made me wonder if they were going to show up at all that day.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
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Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

abefroman329

The office is closed Thursday and Friday.  This is the first time I've worked for an employer that is closed on Thanksgiving and Black Friday.  When I worked for banks, they were all open on Black Friday, which meant I had to take a PTO day if I didn't want to work that day.

J N Winkler

I think that in many cases, overly stringent enforcement of punctuality has more to do with figuring out who to fire or lay off when times are tight.  A friend who works for the City of Wichita reports that when the city was having budgetary problems three years ago, being late just five times a year--even by as little as a minute each time--was grounds for starting the termination process.
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index

I did get Thanksgiving off, but only after my boss decided to scream at me and cuss me out over it. I love working retail. Makes me miss the Amazon warehouse.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

vdeane

Quote from: formulanone on November 21, 2022, 10:21:14 AM
I have some nagging coworkers who prefer we always arrive 15 minutes early because the Marines do it that way (last I checked, we aren't acting in that kind of urgency and necessity). Look, if you want to plan on being there early if you have an exceptionally long commute, that's fine. I've found that 5 minutes early is enough or you're waiting around for everyone else who isn't ready.
The company I interned at was like that.  The explanation was that they wanted people around in case someone from another shift needed to contact you.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: formulanone on November 21, 2022, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 20, 2022, 08:47:47 PM
You should ask her what exactly she expects people to get done in that extra 60-120 seconds. That's something I've never been able to get those sorts of people to explain.

It's a case of "give 'em an inch and they'll take a foot" which has created the HR industry in the first place. Sometimes it's warranted, but mostly it is not. But they love staggering-but-useless statistics such if everyone was two minutes late, it would mean that 7 million hours of National productivity are lost.

The reality is that they probably wouldn't have gotten much done in that timespan anyway, depending on their job. 

But, look, if someone has a job that they're supposed to be there 9 - 5, then they're supposed to be there 9 - 5.  They're getting paid to be there.  If someone wants to be a little late to a friend's party, or fashionably late to a gathering, they can do that.  Their friends may be the type where they will all be 30 minutes late. But at the work place, be punctual. Even if the others aren't.

The other side of 'give them an inch'...If they show up at 9:02, there's probably another coworker that will see that, and decide to show up at 9:10.  When the boss questions them, they fight back saying you allowed someone else to be late.  Yeah, 2 minutes, not 10.  But the employee will drag the boss down because one person was allowed to be late, ignoring the main issue of the length of time.  So an otherwise lenient and understanding boss now needs to protect their ass, and 9am is 9am.

We had a section in our division that the boss would allow everyone to "take their lunch at the end of the day" (even though they all ate lunch at lunchtime).  And they still left 10 minutes early on top of that!  Eventually that was cracked down on, and everyone in the section bitched how unfair it was and no one else was told they couldn't do it.  Again, they were ignoring the obvious - no one else was doing it.  And when someone else did leave an hour early, they complained they were allowed to leave early.  Of course, they failed to understand the person leaving early also put in for an hour PTO.

Scott5114

#40
The problem is that because time of day is an arbitrary human construct (there is no concept of "solar 9 am", and even if there was because of time zones, DST, and varying day lengths it wouldn't match up with what we call 9 am anyway), it is subject to measurement error. So if you say "9 am", who determines when that is?

Okay, so the company owns a time clock that we're going to declare be the official time for the company. Except how do you make sure that clock is right? You can sync it to an NTP time server or atomic clock, but unless all of your employees have timepieces that can sync to the same time server, they are bound to be off by a little bit. And even if your employees religiously sync all the timepieces in their house to the time clock, most consumers can't afford a timepiece with the precision required to not drift a few minutes in either direction in the span of a few weeks. Or maybe the batteries die or they lose power, and now everything is flashing 12:00!

And this, of course, assumes the time clock is infallible. We had an issue with the Kronos time clocks at the casino doing really squirrelly stuff for a while. They would jump forward and backward a few minutes at random. I remember one incident where I was dragging my timecard through the reader with the clock displaying 2:28 and then it flashed my clock-in time as 2:33. What? (To their credit, HR did not accept any tardiness reports until they figured out what was wrong with the clock.)

Basically, if you think a ticket for 56 in a 55 is unjust, you are being ideologically inconsistent if you think clocking in at 9:01 is grounds for disciplinary action. It is much fairer for everyone if "9 o'clock" is shorthand for "sometime between 8:55 and 9:05".

So why not clock in early to avoid all these issues altogether? Ah, but see, then you're on the clock longer, and the company is legally obliged to pay you for that time, so now you get in trouble for milking the clock...
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

Most of this is pretty silly, since the normal complaints about timekeeping involve companies forcing employees to work outside their paid time.  Most people are not going to even know what "solar 9am" means or syncing to NTP servers.  But, I'll indulge...

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 21, 2022, 07:53:04 PM
The problem is that because time of day is an arbitrary human construct (there is no concept of "solar 9 am", and even if there was because of time zones, DST, and varying day lengths it wouldn't match up with what we call 9 am anyway), it is subject to measurement error. So if you say "9 am", who determines when that is?

What?  For nearly every job, none of that matters.

QuoteOkay, so the company owns a time clock that we're going to declare be the official time for the company. Except how do you make sure that clock is right? You can sync it to an NTP time server or atomic clock, but unless all of your employees have timepieces that can sync to the same time server, they are bound to be off by a little bit. And even if your employees religiously sync all the timepieces in their house to the time clock, most consumers can't afford a timepiece with the precision required to not drift a few minutes in either direction in the span of a few weeks. Or maybe the batteries die or they lose power, and now everything is flashing 12:00!

In most any company, the time is dictated by the clock on the wall.  If it runs a few minutes ahead or behind your watch, learn to adjust.  Of course, now, the time is dictated by the clock on the computer.  Again, if it runs a few minutes ahead or behind your watch, learn to adjust.

Quote
And this, of course, assumes the time clock is infallible. We had an issue with the Kronos time clocks at the casino doing really squirrelly stuff for a while. They would jump forward and backward a few minutes at random. I remember one incident where I was dragging my timecard through the reader with the clock displaying 2:28 and then it flashed my clock-in time as 2:33. What? (To their credit, HR did not accept any tardiness reports until they figured out what was wrong with the clock.)

Ok, so minor technical issue that they fixed.  That's fine.

QuoteBasically, if you think a ticket for 56 in a 55 is unjust, you are being ideologically inconsistent if you think clocking in at 9:01 is grounds for disciplinary action. It is much fairer for everyone if "9 o'clock" is shorthand for "sometime between 8:55 and 9:05".

Everything you said above invalidates this reasoning.  Since you now basically said you get a 5 minute leeway either way, then the clock IS correct.  Otherwise, if the clock is 5 minutes off, then what determines when 8:55 to 9:05 really is?  Because who knows if the clock is 5 minutes off based on Paragraphs 1, 2, 3 & 4 above.

QuoteSo why not clock in early to avoid all these issues altogether? Ah, but see, then you're on the clock longer, and the company is legally obliged to pay you for that time, so now you get in trouble for milking the clock...

The company is not legally obligated to pay you for that time.  Companies are allowed to pay in 15 minute increments, per the Department of Labor.  If you clock in at 8:57am, the company is allowed to round up to 9am.  And some companies have rules that you can't clock in a certain time prior to your start time, which is legal as well.

JoePCool14

Reading all this makes me grateful that my company is flexible about hours. We have "core hours" in the middle of the day that we're expected to be working (9-3), but whether we start at 7 am or leave at 6 pm doesn't really matter to anyone. As long as we get our work done and our 40 hours in, everything's fine.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

abefroman329

Quote from: JoePCool14 on November 22, 2022, 09:12:35 AM
Reading all this makes me grateful that my company is flexible about hours. We have "core hours" in the middle of the day that we're expected to be working (9-3), but whether we start at 7 am or leave at 6 pm doesn't really matter to anyone. As long as we get our work done and our 40 hours in, everything's fine.
Same, only I don't even have core hours.  In fact, we're traveling to England in a couple of weeks and spending four weeks there, and I plan to work 3 days a week from there (although I plan to stick to Chicago hours or thereabouts).

1995hoo

I once worked for an outfit that instructed you to round off your arrival time to the nearest quarter-hour. This became known as the "seven-minute rule": Arrive up to seven minutes after a quarter-hour (say, 9:07) and your time began to run from the previous quarter-hour (9:00), and in turn leave up to seven minutes before a quarter-hour (say, 5:23) and your time ran up to the next quarter-hour (5:30). That applied to lunch as well. So of course there were people who always timed it so they were always arriving on the :07, :22, :37, or :52 and departing on the :08, :23, :38, or :53, which in effect basically got them paid for a half-hour a day they didn't actually work. Company policy allowed it, of course. I was never that obsessed with it because I just arrived or departed when it was time to do so and I figured the rounding off would sometimes be in my favor, sometimes in theirs, so it would be essentially a wash in the end. I also figured that when it came time for performance reviews and the like, the higher-ups knew which people were abusing the rule's spirit and those people probably had other performance issues anyway.
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 22, 2022, 10:56:44 AM
I once worked for an outfit that instructed you to round off your arrival time to the nearest quarter-hour. This became known as the "seven-minute rule": Arrive up to seven minutes after a quarter-hour (say, 9:07) and your time began to run from the previous quarter-hour (9:00), and in turn leave up to seven minutes before a quarter-hour (say, 5:23) and your time ran up to the next quarter-hour (5:30). That applied to lunch as well. So of course there were people who always timed it so they were always arriving on the :07, :22, :37, or :52 and departing on the :08, :23, :38, or :53, which in effect basically got them paid for a half-hour a day they didn't actually work. Company policy allowed it, of course. I was never that obsessed with it because I just arrived or departed when it was time to do so and I figured the rounding off would sometimes be in my favor, sometimes in theirs, so it would be essentially a wash in the end. I also figured that when it came time for performance reviews and the like, the higher-ups knew which people were abusing the rule's spirit and those people probably had other performance issues anyway.

Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.
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GaryV

^ @hoo I worked at a company like that, but they kept track of how many times you were taking advantage of the 7 minutes. I don't know what the policy was, because I was salary and it didn't apply to me. But your boss would talk to you if you had too many, and I suppose it could eventually be grounds for dismissal.

webny99

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 21, 2022, 10:42:28 PM
Most of this is pretty silly, since the normal complaints about timekeeping involve companies forcing employees to work outside their paid time.  Most people are not going to even know what "solar 9am" means or syncing to NTP servers.  But, I'll indulge...

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 21, 2022, 07:53:04 PM
The problem is that because time of day is an arbitrary human construct (there is no concept of "solar 9 am", and even if there was because of time zones, DST, and varying day lengths it wouldn't match up with what we call 9 am anyway), it is subject to measurement error. So if you say "9 am", who determines when that is?

What?  For nearly every job, none of that matters.

QuoteOkay, so the company owns a time clock that we're going to declare be the official time for the company. Except how do you make sure that clock is right? You can sync it to an NTP time server or atomic clock, but unless all of your employees have timepieces that can sync to the same time server, they are bound to be off by a little bit. And even if your employees religiously sync all the timepieces in their house to the time clock, most consumers can't afford a timepiece with the precision required to not drift a few minutes in either direction in the span of a few weeks. Or maybe the batteries die or they lose power, and now everything is flashing 12:00!

In most any company, the time is dictated by the clock on the wall.  If it runs a few minutes ahead or behind your watch, learn to adjust.  Of course, now, the time is dictated by the clock on the computer.  Again, if it runs a few minutes ahead or behind your watch, learn to adjust.

Quote
And this, of course, assumes the time clock is infallible. We had an issue with the Kronos time clocks at the casino doing really squirrelly stuff for a while. They would jump forward and backward a few minutes at random. I remember one incident where I was dragging my timecard through the reader with the clock displaying 2:28 and then it flashed my clock-in time as 2:33. What? (To their credit, HR did not accept any tardiness reports until they figured out what was wrong with the clock.)

Ok, so minor technical issue that they fixed.  That's fine.

QuoteBasically, if you think a ticket for 56 in a 55 is unjust, you are being ideologically inconsistent if you think clocking in at 9:01 is grounds for disciplinary action. It is much fairer for everyone if "9 o'clock" is shorthand for "sometime between 8:55 and 9:05".

Everything you said above invalidates this reasoning.  Since you now basically said you get a 5 minute leeway either way, then the clock IS correct.  Otherwise, if the clock is 5 minutes off, then what determines when 8:55 to 9:05 really is?  Because who knows if the clock is 5 minutes off based on Paragraphs 1, 2, 3 & 4 above.

QuoteSo why not clock in early to avoid all these issues altogether? Ah, but see, then you're on the clock longer, and the company is legally obliged to pay you for that time, so now you get in trouble for milking the clock...

The company is not legally obligated to pay you for that time.  Companies are allowed to pay in 15 minute increments, per the Department of Labor.  If you clock in at 8:57am, the company is allowed to round up to 9am.  And some companies have rules that you can't clock in a certain time prior to your start time, which is legal as well.

If your company is run by a bunch of dicks who will get you in trouble for clocking in at 9:01 instead of 9:00 and also get you in trouble if you clock in before 9:00, then all of that applies.

Guess what kind of company the last one I worked for was. (And yeah, they actually calculated pay in 15-minute increments, so it made no fucking sense, either.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on November 22, 2022, 11:00:39 AM
Our timekeeping is also by the quarter hour.  When I took over one particular department, they had a department rule that you could be up to 4 minutes, 59 seconds late and still be considered on time. When asked if I would keep that rule, I clearly stated that it could be kept only if it weren't abused. I noticed one particular employee walking in about 4 minutes late every day. I started checking the parking lot and noticed that she regularly arrived and parked by 5 minutes before her start time and deliberately sat in her car until she'd be 4 minutes late.

That policy want away that day. If they were a minute or more late they were off the clock until 15 after.

I get what you're saying here, but it also makes no sense to me to keep track of arrival times down to the minute even as overall timekeeping is done by the quarter-hour, rendering the exact minute of arrival irrelevant.  A time clock to clock in and out (which I thought most companies had, but maybe not) would solve this issue and pretty much all similar issues.

The union contributed to this environment as well. They insisted that if you kept an employee a minute past their end time, they were entitled to 15 minutes of overtime pay. I offered them the option of either being flexible at both ends of the shift or neither end and they chose the latter.
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Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%



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