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Author Topic: I-69 Ohio River Bridge  (Read 459145 times)

jnewkirk77

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1025 on: July 01, 2020, 10:51:55 PM »

I love historical significance as much as the next guy, but it makes absolutely no sense to keep the northbound bridge. Not only is the southbound one 30+ years newer, it is noticibly wider.

Same here, but in my reading of the DEIS from 2014, the costs of repair and maintenance of the SB bridge have historically been higher than for the NB, and seem likely to remain so.

It is also noteworthy that the NB bridge lasted 50 years before it needed a deck overlay, whereas the SB had to be done in 1979, just 14 years after it was built.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1026 on: July 01, 2020, 11:50:11 PM »

I love historical significance as much as the next guy, but it makes absolutely no sense to keep the northbound bridge. Not only is the southbound one 30+ years newer, it is noticibly wider.

Same here, but in my reading of the DEIS from 2014, the costs of repair and maintenance of the SB bridge have historically been higher than for the NB, and seem likely to remain so.

It is also noteworthy that the NB bridge lasted 50 years before it needed a deck overlay, whereas the SB had to be done in 1979, just 14 years after it was built.
Older design, but higher quality it appears.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1027 on: July 02, 2020, 08:53:22 PM »

About time we got a definitive alignment for the bridge! I imagine a cable-stayed design will be used here; it would be nice if they made that (like they did for I-65 in Louisville and I-70 in St. Louis).
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edwaleni

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1028 on: July 03, 2020, 12:41:22 PM »

About time we got a definitive alignment for the bridge! I imagine a cable-stayed design will be used here; it would be nice if they made that (like they did for I-65 in Louisville and I-70 in St. Louis).

I agree.

DOT's tend to use templates to make the bidding process less complicated and more predictable.  But it also makes for repetitive looking bridges and in one case caused a national crisis in bridge lifespans.

The cable stayed, twin tower approach is popular right now in the midwest and a few other places.

Probably a variation would be the new Quad Cities bridge over the Mississippi. IDOT was the lead I think on that one.

Florida DOT depending on the district can be incredibly innovative or incredibly boring. D1 and D4 tend to be more creative, while D2 prefers bread and butter.

Since KDOT is the lead agency, one would have to take a look at how unique they are. The new span east of Louisville would be a good example.

The "Modjeski" style cantilevers of the 1920-1960 is the most common in the US, which is when a large majority of road bridges were built.

Now we seem to be in a post-Modjeski cable stayed phase of bridge design.
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mvak36

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1029 on: August 19, 2020, 10:48:27 AM »

No new updates but something to look forward to.

https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/i-69-orx-office-consolidating/
Quote
.....

The Project Team continues to work toward the selection of a preferred alternative and the development of the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Record of Decision (ROD) and expects to publish the FEIS later this year or in early 2021.

When the FEIS is published, open office hours or community meetings will be scheduled in both Evansville and Henderson.
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abqtraveler

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1030 on: January 20, 2021, 01:54:48 PM »

Here's a recent article with updates on the I-69 Ohio River Bridge.  Nothing really earth-shattering, but a couple of highlights:

  • INDOT and KYTC have identified their Preferred Alternative that will go into the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).
    The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
    The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
    The FEIS and Record of Decision are expected in 2021.
    Construction may begin in 2024, after I-69 has been connected to I-465 in Indianapolis. (Previously, officials in Kentucky have appropriated funds to construct a section of I-69 between US-41/KY-425 and US-60, which may start in 2022.
)

https://www.14news.com/2021/01/20/gov-holcomb-announces-next-steps-i-ohio-river-crossing/
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sparker

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1031 on: January 26, 2021, 02:56:48 AM »

Here's a recent article with updates on the I-69 Ohio River Bridge.  Nothing really earth-shattering, but a couple of highlights:

  • INDOT and KYTC have identified their Preferred Alternative that will go into the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).
    The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
    The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
    The FEIS and Record of Decision are expected in 2021.
    Construction may begin in 2024, after I-69 has been connected to I-465 in Indianapolis. (Previously, officials in Kentucky have appropriated funds to construct a section of I-69 between US-41/KY-425 and US-60, which may start in 2022.
)

https://www.14news.com/2021/01/20/gov-holcomb-announces-next-steps-i-ohio-river-crossing/


With a project that not only involves 2 states, but also identification of whatever level of federal input it'll require to get the project -- including the approaches and interchanges -- moving, 2024 seems like an optimistic startup time, even if that is only for the KY non-bridge mileage.  I wouldn't expect the facility to be an integral part of I-69 until at least 2030.   
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abqtraveler

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1032 on: January 26, 2021, 12:43:19 PM »

Here's a recent article with updates on the I-69 Ohio River Bridge.  Nothing really earth-shattering, but a couple of highlights:

  • INDOT and KYTC have identified their Preferred Alternative that will go into the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).
    The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
    The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
    The FEIS and Record of Decision are expected in 2021.
    Construction may begin in 2024, after I-69 has been connected to I-465 in Indianapolis. (Previously, officials in Kentucky have appropriated funds to construct a section of I-69 between US-41/KY-425 and US-60, which may start in 2022.
)

https://www.14news.com/2021/01/20/gov-holcomb-announces-next-steps-i-ohio-river-crossing/


With a project that not only involves 2 states, but also identification of whatever level of federal input it'll require to get the project -- including the approaches and interchanges -- moving, 2024 seems like an optimistic startup time, even if that is only for the KY non-bridge mileage.  I wouldn't expect the facility to be an integral part of I-69 until at least 2030.   

Additional traffic generated as sections of I-69 open to the north and south of the Ohio River will put pressure on both Indiana and Kentucky to get the ORX built sooner rather than later. I anticipate you'll see a significant boost in the amount of traffic using I-69 around Evansville (and the US-41 bridges) once the final connection to I-465 is made. By mid-decade we'll be very close to having a non-stop freeway from the Canadian border in Michigan to at least Dyersburg, Tennessee, leaving the ORX as the missing link. I think the demand signal will be there to compel both states to get the bridge funded and done.
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SkyPesos

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1033 on: January 26, 2021, 01:24:36 PM »

The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
I thought Kentucky is pretty much against for any more toll bridges in the state, at least that's what they said for the Brent Spence Bridge twinning in Cincy

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

hbelkins

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1034 on: January 26, 2021, 02:38:27 PM »

The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
I thought Kentucky is pretty much against for any more toll bridges in the state, at least that's what they said for the Brent Spence Bridge twinning in Cincy

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

It's local pressure, especially from the Kentucky side of the river, that is the loudest anti-tolling voice concerning the Brent Spence. I get the feeling that the people of Henderson and Evansville don't really care about tolls on the I-69 bridge, especially since most traffic between those two downtowns is going to use the US 41 crossing anyway.
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abqtraveler

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1035 on: January 26, 2021, 03:35:41 PM »

The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
I thought Kentucky is pretty much against for any more toll bridges in the state, at least that's what they said for the Brent Spence Bridge twinning in Cincy

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

What works against the Brent Spence expansion getting finished first are threefold: 1) the shear cost (north of $2 billion), 2) a lot of community opposition to the expansion, especially when tolls are considered, and 3) there are plenty of alternate routs to avoid the Brent Spence during peak travel times.

The opposite factors work in favor of getting the I-69 bridge built first: 1) a lower cost, but still expensive ($1.1 billion); 2) greater community support from both sides of the river (as long as tolls are applied to the I-69 bridge only and not the US-41 bridge(s)), and 3) no practicable alternative routes to avoid the existing US-41 bridges.

Now I would agree if they start building the I-69 ORX mid-decade that we would be approaching 2030 by the time it's fully completed.
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WKDAVE

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1036 on: January 26, 2021, 09:20:10 PM »

Here's a recent article with updates on the I-69 Ohio River Bridge.  Nothing really earth-shattering, but a couple of highlights:

  • INDOT and KYTC have identified their Preferred Alternative that will go into the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS).
    The Preferred Alternative has a 4-lane toll bridge for I-69.
    The US-41 bridges will be reduced from two to one, which will be toll-free.
    The FEIS and Record of Decision are expected in 2021.
    Construction may begin in 2024, after I-69 has been connected to I-465 in Indianapolis. (Previously, officials in Kentucky have appropriated funds to construct a section of I-69 between US-41/KY-425 and US-60, which may start in 2022.
)

https://www.14news.com/2021/01/20/gov-holcomb-announces-next-steps-i-ohio-river-crossing/

The Clark Bridge in Downtown Louisville is older than the oldest US 41 bridge and handles over 30,000 vehicles/day so 1 bridge should be plenty between the cities after !-69 is built.

There has not been a decision made on whether the US 41 bridge will be tolled or not.

You cannot finance a $1 Billion bridge with 10,000 vehicles a day paying a $15 toll.  You think 10,000 is too low?

Remember you can go from Memphis Airport to Indy Airport in about 7 hours right now toll free via I-55/57/70

Right now it takes about 7.5 hours via "I-69," completing Martinsville and Henderson may save 15 minutes. There are no plans to upgrade from Dyersburg and Memphis. So I don't see a surge of traffic on I-69.

Right now there is about 12,000 vehicles/day south of Henderson and about 8,000 north of Evansville (near Petersburg). 40,000 cross the twin bridges (4,000 are trucks). Will ALL trucks and 1/6 of all cars divert from US 41 at $10-$15 dollars to cross? Maybe and that gets you 10,000 vehicles.

I expect that there will have to be a small toll on the US 41 bridge in order to pay for the I-69 bridge.

Gary Valentine of KYTC, said as much at an I-69 meeting in Madisonville years ago.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 10:24:59 AM by WKDAVE »
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I-39

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1037 on: January 26, 2021, 09:55:49 PM »

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

Probably the latter. I fear it it will take an I-35W situation to get anything going on the Brent Spence.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1038 on: January 27, 2021, 01:49:18 PM »

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

Probably the latter. I fear it it will take an I-35W situation to get anything going on the Brent Spence.

The Brent Spence's issues are capacity issues, not structural issues. The structural integrity of the span is fine. It's not in any danger of falling into the river.
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I-39

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1039 on: January 27, 2021, 03:27:11 PM »

Speaking of the Brent Spence Bridge, would be interesting to see which one actually gets finished first, it or the I-69 bridge.

Probably the latter. I fear it it will take an I-35W situation to get anything going on the Brent Spence.

The Brent Spence's issues are capacity issues, not structural issues. The structural integrity of the span is fine. It's not in any danger of falling into the river.

So when will the existing Brent Spence bridge be due for replacement?
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seicer

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1040 on: January 27, 2021, 03:54:12 PM »

It's not up for replacement, but most bridges of that type are replaced in the 80-100 year timeframe. With proper maintenance, it could last longer than that. It might be in the 2050 range before serious studies are conducted on its replacement.

abqtraveler

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1041 on: January 27, 2021, 05:12:58 PM »

It's not up for replacement, but most bridges of that type are replaced in the 80-100 year timeframe. With proper maintenance, it could last longer than that. It might be in the 2050 range before serious studies are conducted on its replacement.

The Brent Spence expansion would be similar to what was recently done with the Kennedy Bridge that carries I-65 over the Ohio River in Louisville. A new bridge would be built that would eventually carry traffic in one direction. Once the new bridge is finished, traffic would be shifted to it, and the Brent Spence would be rehabilitated. After the existing bridge is refurbished, it would carry I-75 traffic in one direction with added lanes, while the new span would carry traffic in the opposite direction.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1042 on: January 28, 2021, 12:33:21 AM »

So when will the existing Brent Spence bridge be due for replacement?
Think what they're trying to do is construct a twin span for the Brent Spence for I-75 traffic, and leave the current bridge for I-71 traffic. This will eliminate the concurrency of I-75 and I-71 in Ohio. There has been a couple of bridge designs floating around on the internet, the one that is my favorite is the cabled stayed one, which happens to be my favorite bridge type too.

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1043 on: January 28, 2021, 12:56:48 PM »

So when will the existing Brent Spence bridge be due for replacement?
Think what they're trying to do is construct a twin span for the Brent Spence for I-75 traffic, and leave the current bridge for I-71 traffic. This will eliminate the concurrency of I-75 and I-71 in Ohio. There has been a couple of bridge designs floating around on the internet, the one that is my favorite is the cabled stayed one, which happens to be my favorite bridge type too.

I've seen several variants of what's proposed, and what routes would be split. One idea I saw floated was that the existing bridge would be converted to northbound only, with one deck for I-71 and the other for I-75. The split would occur in Kentucky. The new bridge would carry all southbound traffic for both lanes, and the southbound convergence would take place in Ohio.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1044 on: February 08, 2021, 03:17:06 PM »

When the Interstate 69 Ohio River Bridge is opened, the US 41 designation won't be shifted to the Interstate 69 route on both ends, will it? I would find such a rerouting of 41 to be convoluted.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1045 on: February 08, 2021, 03:27:23 PM »

When the Interstate 69 Ohio River Bridge is opened, the US 41 designation won't be shifted to the Interstate 69 route on both ends, will it? I would find such a rerouting of 41 to be convoluted.

Chances are it won't -- at least in IN.  INDOT resisted the temptation to reroute US 41 over former I-164 for 30+ years; if US 41 continues to use the remaining extant Ohio River bridge, it'll probably retain its current path northward out of Evansville.  A continuous and signed US 41 as an alternative to the tolled new I-69 bridge is likely one of the salient points of the entire project by providing local traffic a familiar and free facility.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1046 on: February 08, 2021, 03:53:57 PM »

When the Interstate 69 Ohio River Bridge is opened, the US 41 designation won't be shifted to the Interstate 69 route on both ends, will it? I would find such a rerouting of 41 to be convoluted.

Chances are it won't -- at least in IN.  INDOT resisted the temptation to reroute US 41 over former I-164 for 30+ years; if US 41 continues to use the remaining extant Ohio River bridge, it'll probably retain its current path northward out of Evansville.  A continuous and signed US 41 as an alternative to the tolled new I-69 bridge is likely one of the salient points of the entire project by providing local traffic a familiar and free facility.

 :-D a temptation I'm shocked they have resisted. 41 will stay on the existing bridge, kentucky has control since the bridge isnt even in indiana.
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1047 on: February 09, 2021, 04:06:53 AM »

When the Interstate 69 Ohio River Bridge is opened, the US 41 designation won't be shifted to the Interstate 69 route on both ends, will it? I would find such a rerouting of 41 to be convoluted.

Chances are it won't -- at least in IN.  INDOT resisted the temptation to reroute US 41 over former I-164 for 30+ years; if US 41 continues to use the remaining extant Ohio River bridge, it'll probably retain its current path northward out of Evansville.  A continuous and signed US 41 as an alternative to the tolled new I-69 bridge is likely one of the salient points of the entire project by providing local traffic a familiar and free facility.

 :-D a temptation I'm shocked they have resisted. 41 will stay on the existing bridge, kentucky has control since the bridge isnt even in indiana.

Something of a purely technical point stemming from the fact that the state line doesn't necessarily follow the river; in this instance it's a bit north.  But regardless of geographic jurisdiction,  IN is going to cough up more than a few bucks for their share of the project; even though KDOT is the lead agency of record. 
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1048 on: February 09, 2021, 09:51:32 AM »

When the Interstate 69 Ohio River Bridge is opened, the US 41 designation won't be shifted to the Interstate 69 route on both ends, will it? I would find such a rerouting of 41 to be convoluted.

Chances are it won't -- at least in IN.  INDOT resisted the temptation to reroute US 41 over former I-164 for 30+ years; if US 41 continues to use the remaining extant Ohio River bridge, it'll probably retain its current path northward out of Evansville.  A continuous and signed US 41 as an alternative to the tolled new I-69 bridge is likely one of the salient points of the entire project by providing local traffic a familiar and free facility.

 :-D a temptation I'm shocked they have resisted. 41 will stay on the existing bridge, kentucky has control since the bridge isnt even in indiana.

Something of a purely technical point stemming from the fact that the state line doesn't necessarily follow the river; in this instance it's a bit north.  But regardless of geographic jurisdiction,  IN is going to cough up more than a few bucks for their share of the project; even though KDOT is the lead agency of record.

That's because the state line was demarcated where the river was located some 200 years ago when Indiana and Kentucky became states. Since that time, the main channel of the Ohio River has shifted multiple times, but the state line was never adjusted to account for those changes.

Now with respect to moving the designation of US-41 from the existing bridges to the I-69 bridge, it would take both Indiana and Kentucky to agree on that. While both the I-69 bridge and the US-41 bridges will lie completely within Kentucky, the nearest road connection north of the Ohio River is in Indiana. If for example, Kentucky were to unilaterally shift the US-41 designation to the I-69 bridge without any action on the part of Indiana, you'd end up with a situation where there would be a disconnect. Coming up from the south, US-41 would follow I-69, and then abruptly end at the Indiana state line. Coming down from the north, US-41 would follow its existing alignment to the state line, and then end. 
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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #1049 on: February 09, 2021, 05:02:36 PM »

If for example, Kentucky were to unilaterally shift the US-41 designation to the I-69 bridge without any action on the part of Indiana, you'd end up with a situation where there would be a disconnect. Coming up from the south, US-41 would follow I-69, and then abruptly end at the Indiana state line. Coming down from the north, US-41 would follow its existing alignment to the state line, and then end.

That situation actually happened for awhile when North Carolina finished its section of I-26. Before that, the US 23 freeway ended at the state line and continued south into North Carolina as a surface route. When the freeway was finished and the I-26 designation was applied, it took North Carolina awhile to route US 23 onto the freeway. So you had a situation where US 23 continued north from Mars Hill on the old route and disappeared at the state line (the old route continues into Tennessee as a county road). Similarly, US 23 southbound disappeared and you had to take the Wolf Laurel exit to get back on it. It was originally signed "To US 23" but later, that connector and the old alignment of US 23 was signed as US 23A.
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