Arkansas Debating Red Light Cameras

[US71]

http://www.thv11.com/news/local/ark-lawmakers-weighing-idea-of-red-light-cameras/465443239

[jeffandnicole]

Sounds like the traffic camera companies must've thrown some extra goodies into the gift basket they intend on sending to this politician.

[AlexandriaVA]

Good I hope they get cleared.

Critics say they invade privacy and are used to raise cash for local governments. That study would be conducted in the next six months to be ready for the legislative session.

Point number 1 is probably false, and point number 2 is a red herring - you can say that about any traffic violation which has an associated fine. If you don't want local governments to get cash, don't run the red lights.

Note that the critics make no argument about the safety improvements.

[hotdogPi]

If you don't want local governments to get cash, don't run the red lights.

There are situations where you can be forced to pay without violating the law.

[AlexandriaVA]

Outside of clearing for an ambulance, I can't think of any other. And that could be waived with knowledge of the ambulance's movements.

[US71]

Good I hope they get cleared.

Critics say they invade privacy and are used to raise cash for local governments. That study would be conducted in the next six months to be ready for the legislative session.

Point number 1 is probably false, and point number 2 is a red herring - you can say that about any traffic violation which has an associated fine. I

Remember when Springfield, Missouri got caught fixing their signals to catch more red-light runners?

[bjrush]

This will pull in trillions if it comes to pass. Two cars always go thru on red at every intersection in Arkansas

[Brandon]

I hope it doesn't pass.  These types of cameras should be banned nationally.  They're used for little more than corruption.

[US71]

This will pull in trillions if it comes to pass. Two cars always go thru on red at every intersection in Arkansas

Red Light Cameras lead to more rear end collisions

[Brandon]

This will pull in trillions if it comes to pass. Two cars always go thru on red at every intersection in Arkansas

Red Light Cameras lead to more rear end collisions

And there's minimal evidence they actually improve safety.  If you want to improve safety at signals, increase the yellow light length and add an all-red phase for a couple of seconds afterward.

[jakeroot]

This will pull in trillions if it comes to pass. Two cars always go thru on red at every intersection in Arkansas

Red Light Cameras lead to more rear end collisions

And there's minimal evidence they actually improve safety.  If you want to improve safety at signals, increase the yellow light length and add an all-red phase for a couple of seconds afterward.

These don't always work. Or, they can, but drivers quickly learn that there's an all-red phase, so red light running actually increases. This is a major problem in South Africa. All intersections have two-second all-red phases, mostly to help clear right-turning traffic. But it has been noted that drivers tend to push the all-red phase, to the point where drivers routinely enter on red (they know that traffic from the intersecting road still has a red light).

It's sort like the amber-before-green display used in Europe. Watch any UK-based motovlog channel on YouTube, and you'll see not only motorcyclists, but drivers immediately setting off on amber.

Ultimately, my point is that drivers tend to outsmart these safety systems, to the point where they almost always prove futile.

[jakeroot]

There seems to be two scenarios where red light running is most common (in my experience):

1 -- intersections with lots of trucks, and the vehicles behind them can't see the lights (so they [normal vehicles] end up running a lot of red ones)

2 -- intersections of two major arterial roads where there's not enough green time for each direction, so traffic routinely stacks up at the intersection (creating impatient drivers who are more than happy to push the lights).

#1 is easily fixed by installing a mixture of both overhead and auxiliary/post-mounted signals, so that drivers can see the state of the signal better. Arkansas is not a heavy user of auxiliary signals, so they should invest in those first.

#2 is not so easily fixed. Basically just the result of overburdened infrastructure.

tl;dr -- states aren't doing enough to address why red light running is a problem.

[Brandon]

There seems to be two scenarios where red light running is most common (in my experience):
2 -- intersections of two major arterial roads where there's not enough green time for each direction, so traffic routinely stacks up at the intersection (creating impatient drivers who are more than happy to push the lights).

#2 is not so easily fixed. Basically just the result of overburdened infrastructure.

tl;dr -- states aren't doing enough to address why red light running is a problem.

#2 can be fixed using proper engineering to address the issue.  One could implement longer green cycle lengths (which unfortunately would bring longer red cycle length).  One could ban left turns at the intersection, using channelization and Michigan Lefts to coordinate traffic flow.  One could also replace the intersection with a small interchange, or use local streets to make the movement between the two major streets.

[jakeroot]

There seems to be two scenarios where red light running is most common (in my experience):
2 -- intersections of two major arterial roads where there's not enough green time for each direction, so traffic routinely stacks up at the intersection (creating impatient drivers who are more than happy to push the lights).

#2 is not so easily fixed. Basically just the result of overburdened infrastructure.

tl;dr -- states aren't doing enough to address why red light running is a problem.

#2 can be fixed using proper engineering to address the issue.  One could implement longer green cycle lengths (which unfortunately would bring longer red cycle length).  One could ban left turns at the intersection, using channelization and Michigan Lefts to coordinate traffic flow.  One could also replace the intersection with a small interchange, or use local streets to make the movement between the two major streets.

There are certainly ways to improve the situation, but none are particularly cheap. As a preference to red light cameras? Absolutely (although one can certainly see why an agency might jump to red light cameras first, since they are cheaper ways of "improving the situation" (note the use of quotes)).

Two intersections near me that suffer from problem #2 (S 320 St @ WA-99 and 112 St E @ Canyon Road) have little in the way of possible improvements. Both are within extremely tight ROW, and commercial businesses have a tight grip beyond that. All four roads are rife with signals, but most are relatively low-impact, allowing the arterial longer green times without ravaging side street traffic flow. At these intersections, however, all comes to a halt. There's simply too much approaching traffic to sufficiently give enough green time to keep traffic from building. As a result, drivers tend to get used to waiting at these busy intersections, so red light running is common (as drivers become impatient). FWIW, the first example has red light cameras, but the second does not.

[Wayward Memphian]

The amount of red light running in Fayetteville is comical yet insanely dangerous. Just observe at College (US71B) and Joyce in the afternoon. Mission and Crossover is horrible as well. It is just insane. I don't see this amount of red light running in Memphis.

[US71]

The amount of red light running in Fayetteville is comical yet insanely dangerous. Just observe at College (US71B) and Joyce in the afternoon. Mission and Crossover is horrible as well. It is just insane. I don't see this amount of red light running in Memphis.

College and Joyce has been a cluster-fork for many years.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good I hope they get cleared.

Critics say they invade privacy and are used to raise cash for local governments. That study would be conducted in the next six months to be ready for the legislative session.

Point number 1 is probably false, and point number 2 is a red herring - you can say that about any traffic violation which has an associated fine. If you don't want local governments to get cash, don't run the red lights.

Note that the critics make no argument about the safety improvements.

They shouldn't even have the opportunity to get cash from you without having an officer present to write the ticket in the first place. I wish law enforcement would focus more on real crime and less on minor traffic violations. With that being said, we don't need cameras to fine us if we run a red light or go too fast. They don't work and there is nothing to back up that they make situations safer and it can be argued they make them worse.

If the government wants to overreach and have cameras everywhere, might as well disable the car from going any faster than the posted limit. I wonder how far we are away from that.

[Wayward Memphian]

The amount of red light running in Fayetteville is comical yet insanely dangerous. Just observe at College (US71B) and Joyce in the afternoon. Mission and Crossover is horrible as well. It is just insane. I don't see this amount of red light running in Memphis.

College and Joyce has been a cluster-fork for many years.

Fayetteville should just station a cop there 7am to 7 pm 7 days a week.. I have counted to 10 seconds past green and they are still running it.