Why is the metric system associated with the '70s?

Started by bandit957, February 20, 2021, 10:05:27 PM

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bandit957

Why oh why?

I know Canada adopted the metric system in the '70s, but my perspective is from the U.S. of A. I remember hearing about weights and measures in the '70s, but I don't remember seeing the metric system hardly ever used until the '80s. I remember a bank in the late '70s that had a sign giving the temperature in both Fahrenheit and Celsius, but that was about it.

I think of the metric system as an '80s or even a '90s thing. I think there was one point around 1994 when the U.S. actually came very, very close to switching everything to metric, but the government lifted the timeline on this.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool


Road Hog

There was a big push to make the US go metric in the 70s, but it petered out by the early 80s. There used to be a metric distance sign between Memphis and Nashville on Interstate 40 at the 100-km point.

The marketplace is changing things, however. The 2-liter bottle of Coke in the 80s was the first major metric product. Other items, like drugs, became quantified in grams and not lids. Then Procter & Gamble, which was "SAE till I die," started marking metric sizes on their packages and selling shampoo in 400-mL bottles. That was half the ballgame.

Nowadays you need metric wrenches to work on late-model American cars and engines are sized in liters, not CC's.

1995hoo

Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
....

Nowadays you need metric wrenches to work on late-model American cars and engines are sized in liters, not CC's.

I believe you mean cubic inches, not ccs–the latter refers to cubic centimetres, which is a metric measurement.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Road Hog

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 20, 2021, 10:53:16 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on February 20, 2021, 10:41:32 PM
....

Nowadays you need metric wrenches to work on late-model American cars and engines are sized in liters, not CC's.

I believe you mean cubic inches, not ccs–the latter refers to cubic centimetres, which is a metric measurement.
You're right, I was thinking of motorcycles.

kkt

There was a push to adopt SI in the 1970s.  Products started to be labeled with metric sizes in parallel with the customary measures, and schools started teaching it.  I think it was the Reagan Administration that decided to abandon the governmental push, but nevertheless more and more sectors of the economy have used it anyway.  It's hard to be the only country using a system of measure.


hbelkins

I remember the metric push in the 70s, not the 80s.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

GenExpwy

The first small step towards a metric US was quite a bit earlier. The Metric Act of 1866 says:
QuoteIt shall be lawful throughout the United States of America to employ the weights and measures of the metric system; and no contract or dealing, or pleading in any court, shall be deemed invalid or liable to objection because the weights or measures expressed or referred to therein are weights or measures of the metric system.

Also in 1866, the government introduced the [cupro-]nickel five-cent coin (which quickly replaced the inconveniently-small silver half dime). The mass of the nickel was, and still is, five grams.

Rick Powell

#7
On I-80 in IL, there were a few BGS mileage signs installed in the 70s that had dual measurements in miles and kilometers. I remember one with Chicago 62 miles - 100 kilometers. They were taken down within a year or 2. When I worked at IDOT there was a big federal push to do highway plans in metric units in the 90s which turned out to be a big fiasco as the construction industry wanted nothing to do with it. We had metric sets of plans where the bridge form carpenters were converting millimeters back to inches so they could use their inch rulers. The last construction job in my District that was issued and bid with metric plans was IL 47 though Yorkville, IL. IDOT at the time had already abandoned the metric system but it would have been an expensive undertaking to convert everything back to English, so they just went with it and dealt with it in the field.

One thing I kept in my head from those days was all the metric conversions. I still to this day know that a meter is 3.2808 feet and an inch is 25.4 mm.

michravera

Quote from: kkt on February 21, 2021, 12:02:21 AM
There was a push to adopt SI in the 1970s.  Products started to be labeled with metric sizes in parallel with the customary measures, and schools started teaching it.  I think it was the Reagan Administration that decided to abandon the governmental push, but nevertheless more and more sectors of the economy have used it anyway.  It's hard to be the only country using a system of measure.

Industries would switch really fast, if the governments would simply offer its products in metric and buy products in metric. The FAA switched to Celsius for all temperatures back in about 1994 or 5. Up until then, temperatures on the ground were in Fahrenheit and the ones in the air were in Celsius. It took about a week to get that switch done.

One switch that would be easy to make would be to 24 hour time.

Write the laws in metric and let courtesy approximations in customary units be made for those who need them (and keep in mind that customary units are defined in metric).

hotdogPi

I've noticed that very small values use the metric system, even in the US. Coins have their mass in grams and their diameter in millimeters. Pencil leads are typically 0.5, 0.7, or 0.9 mm. Nutrition labels are in grams (except for calories), and medications are in milligrams or micrograms.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

GaryV

They tried to teach us the metric system in the 60's in school.  But they did a bad job of it.  Things like, "How many inches is 3.9 cm?"  That's not teaching the metric system, that's giving us more multiplication and division problems.

Another use of the metric system was during the oil embargo when gasoline prices first went over a dollar per gallon.  Many pumps at the time couldn't go over 99.9 cents.  But wait - we can set the pump to liters.  So that's what they did, and they had to post signs telling you what the conversion was into dollars per gallon.

Of course, pop (soda for you great unwashed masses) is sold in 1/2 liter and 2 liter bottles.


bandit957

I do remember when they introduced the plastic 2-liter Pepsi bottles, they ran a TV commercial with the slogan "The bottle that doesn't act like a bottle!" It showed the bottle slowly darting around the room with some weird sounds. It made it appear as if the bottle couldn't spill or break.

I haven't seen this ad in over 40 years, and everyone thinks I'm making it up. That ad might have been 1979.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

1995hoo

I still struggle with the various conversions for American measurements because when I was in kindergarten through about third grade, the focus was on teaching metric measurement (not coincidentally, that was from around 1978 to 1982), so I never quite got all of the American ones. For a long time I thought there were 12 ounces in a pound and I didn't understand the difference between liquid and dry ounces. The other thing that drives me crazy is that the units used in recipe instructions do not match the units on the packaging at the store–it doesn't help when it says a "cup" of some dry ingredients that are sold only in "dry ounces." I downloaded an app called "Kitchen Calculator" that helps with that.

Conversely, I often convert recipes to metric units simply because it's more precise when I use the kitchen scale to weigh something in grams rather than fractions of a pound. Grams are a smaller unit and it's just plain easier to get the right amount.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

webny99

Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

1 mile = 1.6 km
1 yard ≈ 1 m
1 foot ≈ 30 cm
32° F = 0° C
-40° F = -40° C
212° F = 100° C

I think that's it for me. That is... not a lot.

kalvado

Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

1 mile = 1.6 km
1 yard ≈ 1 m
1 foot ≈ 30 cm
32° F = 0° C
-40° F = -40° C
212° F = 100° C

I think that's it for me. That is... not a lot.
Pound? Gallon? Ounce? Inch?

bandit957

I remember one time in grade school, we were out on the ballfield and some kid kept kicking dirt. So the gym teacher said, "If you don't stop kicking that dirt, I'm gonna make you eat a gallon of it."

But how??? It was dry dirt, not a liquid. I thought gallons were for liquids.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

kalvado

#16
Quote from: bandit957 on February 21, 2021, 11:51:27 AM
I remember one time in grade school, we were out on the ballfield and some kid kept kicking dirt. So the gym teacher said, "If you don't stop kicking that dirt, I'm gonna make you eat a gallon of it."

But how??? It was dry dirt, not a liquid. I thought gallons were for liquids.
These are 5 gallon buckets of sand. Bon appetit!


And I would grab a pint if blueberries.

kkt

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2021, 11:13:13 AM
For a long time I thought there were 12 ounces in a pound and I didn't understand the difference between liquid and dry ounces.

You weren't completely wrong.  There are 12 Troy ounces in a Troy pound, used for precious metals...

Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

My favorite gotcha is confusing U.S. customary units with Imperial units.  The length and weight units are either identical or very similar, but the Imperial gallon is 20% bigger than the U.S. gallon - different enough to trap the unwary.  However, in the past 50 years or so most uses of the Imperial gallon have gone away in favor of liters, in the UK and Commonwealth countries.

The metric system's main virtue is that the units have NOT been defined differently in different places.  A gram's a gram everywhere.


kalvado

Quote from: kkt on February 21, 2021, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 21, 2021, 11:13:13 AM
For a long time I thought there were 12 ounces in a pound and I didn't understand the difference between liquid and dry ounces.

You weren't completely wrong.  There are 12 Troy ounces in a Troy pound, used for precious metals...

Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

My favorite gotcha is confusing U.S. customary units with Imperial units.  The length and weight units are either identical or very similar, but the Imperial gallon is 20% bigger than the U.S. gallon - different enough to trap the unwary.  However, in the past 50 years or so most uses of the Imperial gallon have gone away in favor of liters, in the UK and Commonwealth countries.

The metric system's main virtue is that the units have NOT been defined differently in different places.  A gram's a gram everywhere.
Nautical vs statute mile are not going anywhere, though

SkyPesos

metric system is associated with physics class for me

Life in Paradise

It's been a slow, snail-like changeover that will probably not even be done in my lifetime (I'm hoping on another 40 years to the century mark), but I've been comfortable with the gallon, miles, inches, pint, etc.  If they had really wanted to do the change, they should have given a date (like 1/1/80) and everything had to be manufactured and labelled in metric, and the signs would have had to been changed on the roads, etc.  That would have started a whale of grumbling and fighting back, but within 10 years or less, it would have subsided and we would move on.  I'm not suggesting this to be done, but that's one way it could have been completed.

kalvado

Quote from: Life in Paradise on February 21, 2021, 01:58:27 PM
It's been a slow, snail-like changeover that will probably not even be done in my lifetime (I'm hoping on another 40 years to the century mark), but I've been comfortable with the gallon, miles, inches, pint, etc.  If they had really wanted to do the change, they should have given a date (like 1/1/80) and everything had to be manufactured and labelled in metric, and the signs would have had to been changed on the roads, etc.  That would have started a whale of grumbling and fighting back, but within 10 years or less, it would have subsided and we would move on.  I'm not suggesting this to be done, but that's one way it could have been completed.
It was supposed to be that way, but Reagan killed the process.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act

TXtoNJ

Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

1 mile = 1.6 km
1 yard ≈ 1 m
1 foot ≈ 30 cm
32° F = 0° C
-40° F = -40° C
212° F = 100° C

I think that's it for me. That is... not a lot.

1 lb = 454 g
12 oz ~ 355 ml
1 pt ~ 500 ml
5°C = 41°F
10°C = 50°F
15°C = 59°F
20°C = 68°F
25°C = 77°F
30°C = 86°F
35°C = 95°F
40°C = 104°F
45°C = 113°F
50°C = 122°F

Agree that the big problem with metrication in the US was making it voluntary and not mandatory, but there's no way that wouldn't have been hugely unpopular. Nobody likes the overeducated scolds pushing metrication, and that's the biggest political problem.

QuoteWrite the laws in metric and let courtesy approximations in customary units be made for those who need them (and keep in mind that customary units are defined in metric).

Agree with this to an extent, but I'd go further - redefine the most common units in their metric equivalent, but keep the names for the most part. You'd still buy gas by the gallon and beer by the pint, but it would be a 4 liter gallon and a 500 ml pint. Rather than have a 2.54 cm inch, it would just be 2.5 cm (1 decimeter = 4 in). The only real opposition would be from engineers and construction companies, but that's inevitable whatever you do.

webny99

Quote from: kalvado on February 21, 2021, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Random question: how many basic metric-imperial measurements do you know off hand?

1 mile = 1.6 km
1 yard ≈ 1 m
1 foot ≈ 30 cm
32° F = 0° C
-40° F = -40° C
212° F = 100° C

I think that's it for me. That is... not a lot.
Pound? Gallon? Ounce? Inch?

Nope... this is not to my credit, but I don't even know any of those metric equivalents without looking them up. I do know that a kilogram is roughly two pounds, but even that is very approximate. :meh:

Dirt Roads

The Omnibus Act of 1988 required use of the metric system for all Federal projects beginning after the end of the 1992 fiscal year.  All of the transit projects that I worked on in the mid-1990s were designed in metric.  ISTR several large highway projects being designed and signed in metric during this timeframe, but I never saw any.  After emerging from a number of years mostly on NYCT subways, I came back into the world in 1999 to find that Federal projects were being designed under the Imperial system again (with metric equivalents).  At that time, everyone had settled on rounding to three decimal places.

I remember a discussion on one large project arguing whether metric measurements should be rounded to millimeters (0.001m) versus English measurements rounded to mils (0.001 inch).  There was even a discussion about rounding both set of measurements to the closest tenths.  Since there were a large number of items designed in Japan, it was finally (and properly) agreed to give exact measurements as designed and round to mm/mils as appropriate.  Even then, there were a number of arguments about whether the standard gage track width of 56-1/2 inches should be rounded to 143.510 cm (versus the UIC accepted standard of 1435 mm).

Me personally, I switched over to designing and programming in metric in 1990 because of the confusion caused by using pounds-force and pounds-mass in the same calculation.  I was trying to fix a bunch of minor software errors in the process of certifying the hardware and software in Germany.  I had the revisions 99% complete when the client's consultant recommended that the software be certified because of the intense safety protocols used in developing bench tests and field test procedures.  Some 25 years later, they eventually converted everything to metric (and I'm assuming they didn't dig the old software out of the archives).



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