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Started by Alps, May 22, 2011, 12:10:09 AM

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ipeters61

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 26, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 25, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 25, 2020, 08:03:21 AM
It was not especially easy to find on the MDOT/SHA Web site, but there is indeed a 2018 Highway Location Reference for calendar year 2018 for Baltimore City!  Last one I have seen was back in 2005.  It is here (as the 24th county).

It faithfully includes the 0.14 mile long segment of I-70 that is in the city.
But I thought I-70 ends at I-695:)

When it comes to the extent of state-maintained highways in Maryland, I consider the Highway Location Reference to be canon.
I know it actually ends at the park and ride, don't worry!
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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Beltway

Quote from: ipeters61 on February 27, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 26, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
When it comes to the extent of state-maintained highways in Maryland, I consider the Highway Location Reference to be canon.
I know it actually ends at the park and ride, don't worry!
Park signs at the end of the highway ...

Gwynns Falls Trail Trailhead

And a couple others.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

ixnay

Quote from: Beltway on February 26, 2020, 11:21:28 PM
[T]he constructed I-70 extends to Security Blvd. and to that end point 0.14 mile into the city.


Per Google Sat, it looks like 200 of that 739.2 feet is grass.

ixnay

Stephane Dumas

I don't know if someone already mentionned it, but 2 traffic lights on MD-210 near Capital Beltway will be replaced by an interchange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwY6yYGsc80

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 17, 2020, 06:28:24 PM
I don't know if someone already mentionned it, but 2 traffic lights on MD-210 near Capital Beltway will be replaced by an interchange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwY6yYGsc80

There are several at-grade intersections in the MD-210 (Indian Head Highway) corridor in Prince George's County and Charles County that have had horrific crashes, including this one (Kerby Hill Drive) and Wilson Bridge Drive (located to the north of Kerby Hill Drive). 

Eliminating all of the at-grade signalized intersections on MD-210 from MD-227 to I-295 would probably cost billions of dollars, though all are really needed.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

sprjus4

Seems like a mistake to construct it as a left exit / entrance (haven't we figured out by now those only worsen problems, especially in urban areas?), though still beats two signals.

As for the rest of the corridor, it wouldn't be too much of a task. The roadway is already a 6-lane expressway with limited-access (no private driveways), the only issue are the signals. My best analysis is the construction of 4 interchanges (Old Fort Rd, Swan Creek Rd, Farmington Rd, MD-228), 3 overpasses (Palmer Rd, Livingston Rd, Washington Ln) one frontage road extension, and the closing of 4 crossovers would result in a full 6-lane freeway design between MD-228 and I-495, approximately 10 miles. South of MD-228, the existing MD-210 is a free-flow 4-lane expressway with no traffic signals until MD-227. Probably under $1 billion to construct, and could be done in phases (one interchange at a time, maybe one or two in conjunction with an overpass).

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: sprjus4 on March 18, 2020, 12:51:37 AM
Seems like a mistake to construct it as a left exit / entrance (haven't we figured out by now those only worsen problems, especially in urban areas?), though still beats two signals.

As for the rest of the corridor, it wouldn't be too much of a task. The roadway is already a 6-lane expressway with limited-access (no private driveways), the only issue are the signals. My best analysis is the construction of 4 interchanges (Old Fort Rd, Swan Creek Rd, Farmington Rd, MD-228), 3 overpasses (Palmer Rd, Livingston Rd, Washington Ln) one frontage road extension, and the closing of 4 crossovers would result in a full 6-lane freeway design between MD-228 and I-495, approximately 10 miles. South of MD-228, the existing MD-210 is a free-flow 4-lane expressway with no traffic signals until MD-227. Probably under $1 billion to construct, and could be done in phases (one interchange at a time, maybe one or two in conjunction with an overpass).

It could be tempting to go a step further by extending the southbound MD-210 service road from Fort Washington Rd to Swan Creek Rd  https://satellites.pro/plan/USA_map#38.731607,-76.991029,15  and having a pair of one-way service roads.

plain

I have a question. Are there any APL's in MD yet?
Newark born, Richmond bred

jmacswimmer

"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

Mapmikey

Check this out...

This is a 1929 home movie.  The first minute shows the original Susquehanna River Bridge (the Double Decker Bridge) from the Havre de Grace side, followed by an intersection in Havre de Grace showing Maryland State Highway destination signage (also a US 40 shield visible).  Really cool.  The intersection in town is Union Ave SB at Warren St.

The rest of the video has a couple road scenes but nothing interesting.  Mostly video of places they visited.

https://archive.org/details/0925_HM_Virginia_1929_12_20_28_07

cpzilliacus

Drove MD-32 for the first time in  quite a few months recently.

There is widening work going on along most of the remaining section of the corridor that is still two lane, between Linden Church Road in the south and I-70 in the north.

I have not seen the plans, but it looks like an interchange is being built at the entrance to the joint state and Howard County maintenance yard (there is a signal there now).

The very flimsy-looking bridge that has carried Triadelphia Road over MD-32 is well on its way to being replaced (the old bridge has been removed) with a structure wide enough accommodate a four lane (or more likely six lane) MD-32. 

A fair amount of earth moving work and stormwater control construction work is going on north of the interchange at Pfefferkorn Road and Burntwoods Road most of the way to I-70.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

sprjus4

#1811
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 28, 2020, 02:00:39 AM
I have not seen the plans, but it looks like an interchange is being built at the entrance to the joint state and Howard County maintenance yard (there is a signal there now).
The plans call for retaining the signal; no interchange is planned.

Unfortunately, the project is not upgrading any section of MD-32 to freeway standards - rather a 55 mph 4-lane divided highway - still a major improvement over the current situation. A section near I-70 will have an access road constructed to allow for a limited access right of way (no private driveways), but there will still be at-grade intersections. The I-70 interchange will receive an additional turn lane from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound, but that's all.

IMO, a full buildout of MD-32 would include a full freeway upgrade with an interchange / overpass connecting to Ten Oaks Rd at the maintenance yard, more access roads closer to I-70 to fully limit access, a partial cloverleaf interchange at MD-144, and an improved I-70 connection with a loop or flyover from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound. In the future, perhaps another project to do such upgrade will come about. The route is a regional connector to/from the southern suburbs and I-70 and should be built out to full freeway standards.

mrsman

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 28, 2020, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 28, 2020, 02:00:39 AM
I have not seen the plans, but it looks like an interchange is being built at the entrance to the joint state and Howard County maintenance yard (there is a signal there now).
The plans call for retaining the signal; no interchange is planned.

Unfortunately, the project is not upgrading any section of MD-32 to freeway standards - rather a 55 mph 4-lane divided highway - still a major improvement over the current situation. A section near I-70 will have an access road constructed to allow for a limited access right of way (no private driveways), but there will still be at-grade intersections. The I-70 interchange will receive an additional turn lane from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound, but that's all.

IMO, a full buildout of MD-32 would include a full freeway upgrade with an interchange / overpass connecting to Ten Oaks Rd at the maintenance yard, more access roads closer to I-70 to fully limit access, a partial cloverleaf interchange at MD-144, and an improved I-70 connection with a loop or flyover from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound. In the future, perhaps another project to do such upgrade will come about. The route is a regional connector to/from the southern suburbs and I-70 and should be built out to full freeway standards.

While any improvement is appreciated, I agree that a full freeway would be best for the corridor.  If not a full freeway, then a rural expressway standard that maintains a few grade crossings, but eliminates all signals.

TheOneKEA

Quote from: mrsman on April 29, 2020, 07:57:53 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 28, 2020, 02:18:02 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 28, 2020, 02:00:39 AM
I have not seen the plans, but it looks like an interchange is being built at the entrance to the joint state and Howard County maintenance yard (there is a signal there now).
The plans call for retaining the signal; no interchange is planned.

Unfortunately, the project is not upgrading any section of MD-32 to freeway standards - rather a 55 mph 4-lane divided highway - still a major improvement over the current situation. A section near I-70 will have an access road constructed to allow for a limited access right of way (no private driveways), but there will still be at-grade intersections. The I-70 interchange will receive an additional turn lane from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound, but that's all.

IMO, a full buildout of MD-32 would include a full freeway upgrade with an interchange / overpass connecting to Ten Oaks Rd at the maintenance yard, more access roads closer to I-70 to fully limit access, a partial cloverleaf interchange at MD-144, and an improved I-70 connection with a loop or flyover from MD-32 Northbound to I-70 Westbound. In the future, perhaps another project to do such upgrade will come about. The route is a regional connector to/from the southern suburbs and I-70 and should be built out to full freeway standards.

While any improvement is appreciated, I agree that a full freeway would be best for the corridor.  If not a full freeway, then a rural expressway standard that maintains a few grade crossings, but eliminates all signals.

The original plans published by the SHA in 2006 were intended to construct a fully access-controlled, grade-separated freeway with interchanges at Linden Church Road, the SHA shop, Burntwoods Road, Rosemary Lane, and MD 144, and an upgrade to the I-70 interchange by adding loop ramps in the NE and SW quadrants. The plans were/are still available on the SHA PLC portal.

Because it took so long for MDOT to get the necessary funds, and because of the boom/bust in materials prices and construction costs, SHA scoped the plans down to a level where MD 32 will still be converted to a dual carriageway, but will only have partial access controls in places and no access controls elsewhere. We will still have to contend with local traffic turning right into 70mph+ traffic and trying to turn left across 70mph+ traffic.

Once the dual carriageway is in place though, the interchanges can be added later.

jmacswimmer

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's an interesting backstory regarding the bridge carrying I-695 over I-83 NB at exit 24?

Between the pier spacing and the tight curve 83 has to make to squeeze in between the piers, it gives off the impression that the bridge was originally designed with different intentions for what would pass underneath.  But I could also just be trying to read into something that isn't there :)
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

1995hoo

Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 13, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's an interesting backstory regarding the bridge carrying I-695 over I-83 NB at exit 24?

Between the pier spacing and the tight curve 83 has to make to squeeze in between the piers, it gives off the impression that the bridge was originally designed with different intentions for what would pass underneath.  But I could also just be trying to read into something that isn't there :)

An early proposal had I-83 continuing straight south from there–or maybe a better way to put that would be "north to there." If you look at a map, find Kelly Avenue. North of there where the light rail tracks curve to the east, I-83 was proposed to curve east towards Lake Roland, pass to the west of the lake, and then cut through Ruxton and Riderwood roughly where the tracks are, emerging at what is now the I-695/I-83 interchange. Community opposition defeated that idea. I don't know whether the overpass you've noted reflects that concept, but it seems at least plausible because that part of the Baltimore Beltway and the part of what is now I-83 north of there were open by 1955.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Roadsguy

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 13, 2020, 02:24:46 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 13, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's an interesting backstory regarding the bridge carrying I-695 over I-83 NB at exit 24?

Between the pier spacing and the tight curve 83 has to make to squeeze in between the piers, it gives off the impression that the bridge was originally designed with different intentions for what would pass underneath.  But I could also just be trying to read into something that isn't there :)

An early proposal had I-83 continuing straight south from there–or maybe a better way to put that would be "north to there." If you look at a map, find Kelly Avenue. North of there where the light rail tracks curve to the east, I-83 was proposed to curve east towards Lake Roland, pass to the west of the lake, and then cut through Ruxton and Riderwood roughly where the tracks are, emerging at what is now the I-695/I-83 interchange. Community opposition defeated that idea. I don't know whether the overpass you've noted reflects that concept, but it seems at least plausible because that part of the Baltimore Beltway and the part of what is now I-83 north of there were open by 1955.

That bridge has the extra room there because the interchange was originally a trumpet. You can still see the original outline of the EB-NB ramp, inside which was a very tight two-lane loop ramp. The current SB-EB flyover was built by 1981 according to Historic Aerials. The eastbound side of the I-695 mainline bridge still has the original merge taper from the on-ramp.

I had never heard of the proposal to tie the Jones Falls Expressway directly into the current I-83 to the north, but I did see a map at some point that showed the Jones Falls Expressway continuing north and tying into I-83 at about the location of the Warren Road exit. I don't remember which of these paths I-83 itself was intended to take, nor what the designation for the other would have been.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

froggie

^ I've also found the latter (going north from Exit 23) on some Baltimore planning documents.  I have not seen anything suggesting what 1995hoo described (going south from Exit 24)

jmacswimmer

Quote from: Roadsguy on May 13, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 13, 2020, 02:24:46 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on May 13, 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's an interesting backstory regarding the bridge carrying I-695 over I-83 NB at exit 24?

Between the pier spacing and the tight curve 83 has to make to squeeze in between the piers, it gives off the impression that the bridge was originally designed with different intentions for what would pass underneath.  But I could also just be trying to read into something that isn't there :)

An early proposal had I-83 continuing straight south from there–or maybe a better way to put that would be "north to there." If you look at a map, find Kelly Avenue. North of there where the light rail tracks curve to the east, I-83 was proposed to curve east towards Lake Roland, pass to the west of the lake, and then cut through Ruxton and Riderwood roughly where the tracks are, emerging at what is now the I-695/I-83 interchange. Community opposition defeated that idea. I don't know whether the overpass you've noted reflects that concept, but it seems at least plausible because that part of the Baltimore Beltway and the part of what is now I-83 north of there were open by 1955.

That bridge has the extra room there because the interchange was originally a trumpet. You can still see the original outline of the EB-NB ramp, inside which was a very tight two-lane loop ramp. The current SB-EB flyover was built by 1981 according to Historic Aerials. The eastbound side of the I-695 mainline bridge still has the original merge taper from the on-ramp.

I had never heard of the proposal to tie the Jones Falls Expressway directly into the current I-83 to the north, but I did see a map at some point that showed the Jones Falls Expressway continuing north and tying into I-83 at about the location of the Warren Road exit. I don't remember which of these paths I-83 itself was intended to take, nor what the designation for the other would have been.

It looks like the SB-EB flyover was built in 1973, based on this engravement.  (Side note, I absolutely love that SHA & MDTA do this on all their bridges!)
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

1995hoo

#1819
Quote from: Roadsguy on May 13, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
....

I had never heard of the proposal to tie the Jones Falls Expressway directly into the current I-83 to the north, but I did see a map at some point that showed the Jones Falls Expressway continuing north and tying into I-83 at about the location of the Warren Road exit. I don't remember which of these paths I-83 itself was intended to take, nor what the designation for the other would have been.

I've seen maps showing the one you mention. The one I mentioned is not one for which I've seen a map, but you can find a brief reference to it here: https://www.rrlraia.org/about-us/sample-page/

Quote
The Ruxton-Riderwood-Lake Roland Area Improvement Association was formed on January 29, 1953, when a neighborhood organization meeting drew more than 200 residents to adopt a constitution and bylaws. Its purpose was to be a permanent, well-manned organization on alert for encroachments and threats to community life...to keep residents informed and bring such problems, as well as community needs, before appropriate agencies. Its first project was to prevent the new I-83 link from being routed through Ruxton past the L'Hirondelle Club and over Lake Roland. ...

(Emphasis supplied; first ellipsis in original) Technically it may not have been "I-83" yet at that time, but that's a distinction without a difference unless, perhaps, it impacts the results you get when you search for information.


Edited to add: Steve Anderson has a reference to this proposed routing on one of his websites. http://dcroads.net/roads/baltimore-harrisburg/

QuoteIn early 1953, the SRC proposed extending the Baltimore-Harrisburg Expressway south of the Baltimore Beltway to provide a direct link to the Jones Falls Expressway near Mount Washington. Although the route was to follow an existing railroad right-of-way (which now is used for the MTA Light Rail line), citizens in the Ruxton and Riderwood communities opposed the expressway link, and the SRC subsequently shelved this proposal.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

BrianP

I saw on a VMS on I-270 that the new exit 12 will open on or about 6/10.

Here's a recent flyover of the exit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=381&v=zaFVKdYvWQs&feature=emb_logo

Glockspeed Gaming

#1821
About I-270:
I never thought it would be numbered as exit 12. Since it was so close to MD-124, I thought it would be numbered exit 11C or something like that.

TheOneKEA

Major earthworks are in progress on MD 32 north of Linden Church Road, and it appears that several culverts are finished and several more are being installed.

It's still not clear what's being built at the Middle Patuxent River though - is the contractor diverting the river so that the existing bridge can be replaced and a new bridge built?

BrianP


froggie

Quote from: TheOneKEAIt's still not clear what's being built at the Middle Patuxent River though - is the contractor diverting the river so that the existing bridge can be replaced and a new bridge built?

The project layout posted upthread shows the river being diverted with new bridges being built north of the existing bridge (which presumably will get filled in).  Part of the field on the northeast corner of the new river bridge location will be use for wetland mitigation.



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