Massachusetts milepost exit numbering conversion contract

[roadman]

They're only insulting to readers attempting to read objectively, which most readers are not. Most readers love drama and this sort of antagonism appeals to them, it feeds their emotional need to constantly be outraged about something.

But the media is supposed to be reporting objectively, not encouraging false antagonism.  That's what's wrong with the whole approach.

[vdeane]

Technically, as corporate entities, the media is only "supposed" to make a profit.  When ratings and journalistic integrity conflict, ratings win every time (it's even legal to lie on the news in this country).

[Pete from Boston]

The commercial media is struggling to find relevance in a world where people get information everywhere.  They just want eyeballs on ads at this point. 

That said, I'm sure this same line could have been used fifty and a hundred years ago and still be widely accepted as true.

[bob7374]

Though not technically a part of the MassDOT contract, the first exit sign with a milepost-based number has appeared in Massachusetts, for a Connecticut exit. The 1-Mile Advance for Exit 53, Old Exit 100 on I-395 South is 2/10 of a mile north of the CT border. The exit sign now reads 53 with a patch made over the old number:


The new Mass. numbers should be less obvious, since only the old number on the tab is being overlaid.

[mariethefoxy]

kinda off topic but if they can do this here, why cant they have advanced warning for the out of state Exit 1 on US 3 North in Tyngsboro. Hoping when the north end of US 3 is due for new signs they fix that issue (they still have the older small tab signs north of Exit 31, which got replaced during some widening project they had) , since I've had a near miss or two since it comes up at you with no warning.

[bob7374]

I see that Liddell Brothers of Halifax was the only bidder for the contract to replace the exit signage in the I-93, I-90 and US 1 tunnels (the bid tabulation item list has totals for sign supports as well as the signs themselves). Are they going to be awarded the contract though since their bid total was nearly twice the MassDOT estimate for the project ($1.2 million vs. $550K)?

[Alps]

I see that Liddell Brothers of Halifax was the only bidder for the contract to replace the exit signage in the I-93, I-90 and US 1 tunnels (the bid tabulation item list has totals for sign supports as well as the signs themselves). Are they going to be awarded the contract though since their bid total was nearly twice the MassDOT estimate for the project ($1.2 million vs. $550K)?

I bet the MPT (maintenance and protection of traffic) costs are the difference.

[roadman]

I see that Liddell Brothers of Halifax was the only bidder for the contract to replace the exit signage in the I-93, I-90 and US 1 tunnels (the bid tabulation item list has totals for sign supports as well as the signs themselves). Are they going to be awarded the contract though since their bid total was nearly twice the MassDOT estimate for the project ($1.2 million vs. $550K)?

The contract is question is for on-call repair and replacement of overhead signs and supports in the MHS tunnel system.  The re-numbering of exits is considered incidental work.

[bob7374]

The Worcester Telegram is out with another article on the milepost exit conversion project. The article has a link to a list of the current and future exits for highways in the Worcester area: http://www.telegram.com/article/20160319/NEWS/160329942

The article is quite critical of MassDOT's supposed secrecy about the project. The writer called me when putting together the article, since I provided her with most of the information she could not get from MassDOT, and I am quoted a couple times, not very accurately. I sent her an e-mail suggesting she put my quotes more in context and pointing out a few errors in the story, (in particular as it relates to Roadman's postings in the AARoads Forum) in the hope she would edit the online edition. So far, with little success.

[hbelkins]

I read the story after you posted the link on Facebook. I don't understand all this butthurt over no public notice about the exit number changes. I don't see why a great deal of public notice would be required anyway. I'm sure the signage contracts were advertised the way MassDOT normally advertises a project.

I would handle this by doing a press release when work gets underway, advising motorists to use caution in the areas where signs are being installed. Then I would explain the conversion from sequential to mileage-based exit signage and why it's beneficial, and include the notation that "Old Exit XX" signage will remain in place.

If people feel like they need to be spoonfed information about this or if various urban planning organizations need to have their hands held, then humanity is in worse shape than I thought. 

[AMLNet49]

I read the story after you posted the link on Facebook. I don't understand all this butthurt over no public notice about the exit number changes. I don't see why a great deal of public notice would be required anyway. I'm sure the signage contracts were advertised the way MassDOT normally advertises a project.

I would handle this by doing a press release when work gets underway, advising motorists to use caution in the areas where signs are being installed. Then I would explain the conversion from sequential to mileage-based exit signage and why it's beneficial, and include the notation that "Old Exit XX" signage will remain in place.

If people feel like they need to be spoonfed information about this or if various urban planning organizations need to have their hands held, then humanity is in worse shape than I thought. 

When Maine and Pennsylvania switched they launched massive PR campaigns to alert people to the changes. But if they do that in Mass before the signs get installed, there is no way it will actually happen. The faster the new numbers start going up, the better, because there is a less chance of stuff like these articles occurring. Then when the project is already in full swing they can launch a PR campaign. But nobody seems to know when it will actually begin, so for now these newspapers and local organizations are going to continue taking their shots when they hear something about the project.

[bob7374]

I read the story after you posted the link on Facebook. I don't understand all this butthurt over no public notice about the exit number changes. I don't see why a great deal of public notice would be required anyway. I'm sure the signage contracts were advertised the way MassDOT normally advertises a project.

I would handle this by doing a press release when work gets underway, advising motorists to use caution in the areas where signs are being installed. Then I would explain the conversion from sequential to mileage-based exit signage and why it's beneficial, and include the notation that "Old Exit XX" signage will remain in place.

If people feel like they need to be spoon fed information about this or if various urban planning organizations need to have their hands held, then humanity is in worse shape than I thought. 

The quotes I made in the article were in the context of what seems to be a paranoid view held by some MassDOT officials that if they announced the plan far in advance the overwhelming opinion would be negative and cause a delay or postponement of the project. I would like to believe, like H.B., that if this project brings more benefits than costs, then a simple explanation by MassDOT about the project in a timely manner would help gain the support of a majority of the public. There's always going to be a few people who rant against anything new in the media or on blogs or websites. It seems MassDOT is concerned more about upsetting this vocal minority than starting a project that would provide a benefit to all the travelling public.

[Beeper1]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

[bob7374]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

And the reaction to the attempts by MassDOT and its predecessors to remove 128 along the I-95 section by the press and public could very well be the reason for the agency's silence regarding the changing exit numbers contract.  However, now that the 'secret' is out it would be in the best interest for MassDOT to start publicizing the upcoming work to respond to the arguments of those critical of the project and to get their side of the story out there.

[roadman]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

The Legislature is already involved in the exit numbering - https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3041

[noelbotevera]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

The Legislature is already involved in the exit numbering - https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3041

They won't drag their feet this time. This is supposed to be done by New Year 2017.

However they acted like PennDOT and pulled the minimize costs schtick.

[spooky]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

And the reaction to the attempts by MassDOT and its predecessors to remove 128 along the I-95 section by the press and public could very well be the reason for the agency's silence regarding the changing exit numbers contract.  However, now that the 'secret' is out it would be in the best interest for MassDOT to start publicizing the upcoming work to respond to the arguments of those critical of the project and to get their side of the story out there.

Comparisons to Route 128 are apt. Can we expect traffic reporters to continue to refer to the wrong exit numbers years after the new ones go up?

[PHLBOS]

This is Massachusetts we're talking about.  Where any change like this is gonna be like pulling teeth and could absolutely get side-tracked by people getting pissy and getting their local state rep involved.   Keep in mind they maintain a totally redundant MA-128 designation on a long stretch of highway just because people refuse to accept that that road has a different number from what it had 45 years ago.

And the reaction to the attempts by MassDOT and its predecessors to remove 128 along the I-95 section by the press and public could very well be the reason for the agency's silence regarding the changing exit numbers contract.  However, now that the 'secret' is out it would be in the best interest for MassDOT to start publicizing the upcoming work to respond to the arguments of those critical of the project and to get their side of the story out there.

Comparisons to Route 128 are apt. Can we expect traffic reporters to continue to refer to the wrong exit numbers years after the new ones go up?

Moot point, traffic reporters don't even refer to the interchanges by their present/current numbers.  They simply refer to them by either their street or route number (whichever is applicable).  In a case where two routes interchange with each other more than once (example: I-95 & US 1); they'll mention the town location of that interchange.

On the subject of exit numbers & 128; it's worth noting that the present numbers along the Interstate portion of the Yankee Division Highway are from 1987-1988 with the Canton-Braintree (I-93) stretch changing first, the Canton-Peabody (I-95) stretch conversion coinciding with the completion of Peabody I-95/MA 128 interchange (Exit 45/29).  When such occurred, I don't recall any major announcement of such beyond a brief article and conversion guide in the newspaper; and such was only for I-93's exit number changes.  The only guide I saw for I-95's new numbers was on Arrow road maps & atlases.

Additionally, back in the early 70s; several major highways in eastern Massachusetts (except US 3) converted from the Exit 25 =128 motif to more standard numbering; so this is not the first time interchange numbers were changed.  Heck, even 128's numbers east of I-95 aren't the original numbers; the current 9 through 28 date back to 1959.

I've stated such before and I'll state it again; MA had a golden opportunity to convert to mile-marker-based exit numbering along I-93 following the Big Dig for the simple reason that the new O'Neill Tunnel has less interchanges than the old Central Artery (which explains the present number gaps).  Had such been done; maybe the locals would've seen that such doesn't mean the end of the world as they know it (apologies to R.E.M.)

OTOH, there is a business plaza at the northern end of I-95 that's named after Exit 60; will they now rename their business plaza to Exit 90?

[spooky]

I've asked friends and relatives what they think about exit renumbering. (I'm a blast at parties, BTW.) Most are indifferent but invariably ask why it's necessary. The consensus seems to be that there's better things that MassDOT could be doing with the money, coming from people who don't understand how and where the money comes from. (i.e. you can't fix the MBTA with the money you were going to spend on signs)

A PR release stating that this is being done to meet federal requirements, and mostly paid for with federal money would satisfy a lot of people.

Comparisons to Route 128 are apt. Can we expect traffic reporters to continue to refer to the wrong exit numbers years after the new ones go up?

Moot point, traffic reporters don't even refer to the interchanges by their present/current numbers.  They simply refer to them by either their street or route number (whichever is applicable).  In a case where two routes interchange with each other more than once (example: I-95 & US 1); they'll mention the town location of that interchange.

Agreed.

OTOH, there is a business plaza at the northern end of I-95 that's named after Exit 60; will they now rename their business plaza to Exit 90?

Too bad the sign didn't have separate attached numerals - they could have just turned the 6 over.

[KEVIN_224]

The Worcester Telegram is out with another article on the milepost exit conversion project. The article has a link to a list of the current and future exits for highways in the Worcester area: http://www.telegram.com/article/20160319/NEWS/160329942

First error: The first picture says it's from I-290 East. Wouldn't it actually be from the northern end of I-395?
Second error: They said Maine converted their exits in 2001. I think that was actually done in 2004.

[bob7374]

Cartoon in today's Worcester Telegram in response to Sunday's article about MassDOT's silence about the exit number conversion project:
http://www.telegram.com/article/20160324/NEWS/160329706

[bob7374]

The Worcester article got picked up by the AP and has been re-published on several news websites including that of Fox 25 in Boston and the Berkshire Eagle newspaper. Today's Attleboro Sun-Chronicle has a follow-up report:
http://www.thesunchronicle.com/news/local_news/mass-highway-signs-will-be-changing-but-little-being-said/article_7210bc05-d157-5a96-b599-165a8564e510.html

It also indicates the silence from MassDOT about changing exit numbers and that the local regional planning commission hadn't heard of the project. They did get a list of frequently asked questions and a memo from MassDOT saying a 'public outreach' campaign is planned before the start of the project, but no date was mentioned.

[bob7374]

A follow-up article was published yesterday by the (Attleboro) Sun Chronicle newspaper regarding upcoming changes to local exit numbers on I-95 and I-495. The writer reports still getting no response from MassDOT:
http://www.thesunchronicle.com/news/local_news/what-exit-are-you-changes-in-exit-numbers-for-attleboro/article_7670a1dc-fc2a-11e5-8b84-1f769118f978.html

[bob7374]

At an appearance at a public meeting to discuss the Capital Investment Plan in Hyannis last evening (4/27), State Highway Administrator Thomas Tinlin stated that US 6 exit numbers will not be changed and that he is still evaluating the statewide project:
http://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20160427/state-puts-brakes-on-plan-to-renumber-route-6-signs

[PHLBOS]

The Legislature is already involved in the exit numbering - https://malegislature.gov/Bills/189/House/H3041

It should be noted that the legislation as listed only mentions the (interchange) renumbering along Interstates.

If such is indeed the case, numbered interchanges along non-Interstates would not be impacted by this change (at least not yet).

At an appearance at a public meeting to discuss the Capital Investment Plan in Hyannis on Tuesday evening (4/27), State Highway Administrator Thomas Tinlin stated that US 6 exit numbers will not be changed and that he is still evaluating the statewide project:
http://www.capecodtimes.com/news/20160427/state-puts-brakes-on-plan-to-renumber-route-6-signs

I mentioned similar on Facebook (and IIRC on the Massachusetts thread) & I'll mention it here:

1.  Renumber the interchanges along the Interstates first, per the above-legislation.

2.  Renumber the interchanges for all non-Interstates (if required), except for US 6, next.

3.  Then, renumber the interchanges along the Mid-Cape Highway.