The Great Interstate 238 Debate

[Voyager]

Nobody liked the Embarcadero Freeway to begin with. It was incredibly ugly.

[Terry Shea]

I don't think a 4di number fits on signs.  Perhaps states could instead get to sign I-x00 routes as spurs in emergencies?

If one of the numbers is one, it can be done, ala Interstate H201.

You know I never though about this before until I just saw your post.  Why doesn't Hawaii have an Interstate H2O?  That would be a natural.   

Sorry for drifting off topic.  I couldn't help myself.

[Sykotyk]

I personally believe I-H201 to be completely absurd. If the state is going to have its own numbering convention, assuming it is the 4th such freeway (as it's not just a spur), it could've just been the H4.

And to drift into your topic, I wonder if any native calls it the "Interstate Water One".

Sykotyk

[Scott5114]

I-99W! 

[74/171FAN]

I-99W! 

  I could see CA 99W in a strange way though or historic US 99W   Seriously CA 238 is fine for me or for four digits I-2380

[Voyager]

Why add another digit?

[74/171FAN]

To make everyone happy for those California residents that know it as I-238 and for those like us who think it should be an I-x80.

[mapman]

Are there any AASHTO rules that specifically forbid a four-digit interstate number?

[Fcexpress80]

The solution is simple.  Hawaii has a four alpha-numeric interstate.  Why not name it I-1080?

[mrivera1]

Hopefully this will work, but I posted a potential 4di Interstate 2380 shield on Flickr.  It looks like it would work, however, it would require some fixing to ensure that it isn't too disproportionate.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/8359404@N02/3469774390/

[mightyace]

It looks good to me.  But, would AASHTO buy it?

[Sykotyk]

If H201 can work, 2380 can work.

Sykotyk

[vdeane]

Personally, I don't think saying "4dis are valid because Hawaii does it when you count the H as a digit" is a valid argument (especially when you count Alaska and Puerto Rico, especially since the latter could have 5dis were it to create spurs when you count digits like this).  There are plenty of ways to fix I-238 without resorting to 4dis.

[Sykotyk]

I just meant that the spacing on the sign would work. Plus, H201 is incredibly 'packed' onto the sign, at least the '2380' sign shown here seems to be rather legible.

Sykotyk

[flowmotion]

Hmm. On second thought, maybe "Twenty-Three Eighty" is too much of a mouthful. And that sign does look crowded.

I still think 4dis could work for more compact numbers like say I-1080 or I-1180. The SF Bay Area is in a somewhat unique situation because it's a major metropolitan area with only one 2DI, and we could use some more I routes.

[Sykotyk]

I was looking at this yesterday (I was in San Jose).

Three suggestions:

1. Renumber I-280 as a continuation of I-680. And then make I-238 into I-280.
2. Relabel I-238 as I-380. That way the west and east side of the bay would have one (slightly non-conventional)
3. Remove the I-238 shield, and put up green "TRUCK I-580" (US 19 north of Pittsburgh has a Truck 19 route.

Anyways, the first one makes the most sense. Why wasn't I-280 part of I-680? They have a direct right-of-way into eachother at the 101.

Sykotyk

[74/171FAN]

I was looking at this yesterday (I was in San Jose).

Three suggestions:

1. Renumber I-280 as a continuation of I-680. And then make I-238 into I-280.
2. Relabel I-238 as I-380. That way the west and east side of the bay would have one (slightly non-conventional)
3. Remove the I-238 shield, and put up green "TRUCK I-580" (US 19 north of Pittsburgh has a Truck 19 route.

Anyways, the first one makes the most sense. Why wasn't I-280 part of I-680? They have a direct right-of-way into eachother at the 101.

Sykotyk

Making it "TRUCK I-580" would probably confuse people over there.  I'd still prefer CA 238(unsigned I-480) or the infamous I-2380.  Also Truck US Routes exist all over the place but a Truck interstate would also probably not receive federal funding like an interstate business loop(that's why I-40 was put back on its former alignment through Greensboro

[TheStranger]

Sykotyk: I-280 and I-680 are seperate numbered routes for the same reason I-494 and I-694 are in Minneapolis/St. Paul - elongated beltway that doesn't form a perfect circle/square but rather two loops each using the same cardinal direction.

Had the original plans for I-280 (the Route 1 Junipero Serra Freeway extension from Font Boulevard north to Golden Gate Park, and then north to the Presidio where it would follow the existing Route 1 tunnels to US 101) been completed, it would have had a second similar intersection, with I-480 at the Route 1/US 101 junction.  (US 101 east of Route 1 was slated to be I-480)  This is more similar to I-495 and I-195 ending at each other in Massachussetts, however.

[Sykotyk]

I understand, but if an exception could be made to allow "I-238", wouldn't the easier exception be to simply allow I-280 to be labeled as I-680 (or vice versa).

Sykotyk

[TheStranger]

Sykotyk:  Condensing previous thoughts on the matter...

- 280 and 680 do not form a ciruclar beltway around the bay area, but two equal halves of a "paperclip," with no east-west segment for 680, and a very brief one (from 101 to 85) for 280
- Only one existing route (Route 70) has a directional change as far as I know, though Route 18 technically would be in the same manner.  California generally wants a single route number to go in one plane (north-south or east-west)
- If 280/680 were to receive one #, the anomaly of two seperate exits for two "I-280 North" routings (or "I-680 north") at US 101 would be extremely confusing

[agentsteel53]

how about we make 80/280/680 all I-80.

if I-64 can start in a circular loop, so can I-80.

[TheStranger]

how about we make 80/280/680 all I-80.

if I-64 can start in a circular loop, so can I-80.

Ironically...

Had the plans for the Junipero Serra Freeway's north end ever been completed in San Francisco - as well as the Western Freeway - I-80 would have ended at Route 1/I-280 (and potentially I-480) in Golden Gate Park!

[Hellfighter]

I have a simple solution...I-1!?

[AZDude]

I have a simple solution...I-1!?

Leave that for U.S. 101.

[Scott5114]

I do hereby propose that it be resigned as Interstate Ã....