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NFL (2024 Season)

Started by webny99, February 04, 2020, 02:35:53 PM

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thspfc

Quote from: 1 on October 05, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Has there ever been an "if we tie we both advance to playoffs" situation in American football or hockey? (Baseball and basketball can't end in ties except for unusual circumstances, and I know the answer is yes for association football.)
Sarcastic answer: Yes, any time two teams that have already clinched playoff berths play each other.
Serious answer: Not in a very long time, if ever. But a similar thing I can remember was on the final day of the 2018 regular season, when the Steelers, who had just lost out on their division title, needed the Colts and Titans to tie to advance to the playoffs.


CoreySamson

I'm so happy right now.

The Texans FINALLY fired Bill O'Brien!!!!!  :sombrero: :sombrero: :sombrero:
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TheHighwayMan3561

#177
Quote from: thspfc on October 05, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 05, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Has there ever been an "if we tie we both advance to playoffs" situation in American football or hockey? (Baseball and basketball can't end in ties except for unusual circumstances, and I know the answer is yes for association football.)
Sarcastic answer: Yes, any time two teams that have already clinched playoff berths play each other.
Serious answer: Not in a very long time, if ever. But a similar thing I can remember was on the final day of the 2018 regular season, when the Steelers, who had just lost out on their division title, needed the Colts and Titans to tie to advance to the playoffs.

I think he's referring to a scenario like this:

(Note: this is under the old format of two wild cards, since a third was added for 2020)

We'll have Teams A, B, and C. Let's say C has beaten both A and B and has the head to head tiebreakers over both.

Teams A and B are 9-6 heading into Week 17 leading the Wild Card positions and are playing. Team C is 8-7 and can get into the playoffs with a win as they'll overtake the loser of A vs. B. Teams A and B can play for a tie because no matter what C does, C can't have a better win percentage than either A or B (9-6-1 vs. 9-7).
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

amroad17

Quote from: oscar on October 05, 2020, 07:23:56 PM
Quote from: oscar on October 05, 2020, 09:04:58 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on October 05, 2020, 08:46:28 AM
That 9-6-1 team was the Eagles.
That tie was with the Bengals.
For another example, the 2014 Carolina Panthers made the postseason as NFC South champions with a 7-8-1 record. That tie let them edge out the Saints' 7-9 record.

Quite by coincidence, the Panthers' tie that year also was with the Bengals, who seem to be a magnet for ties.
Yes, now.  From their inception in 1968 through 2007, the Bengals played in exactly one tie game (in 1969 vs. the Houston Oilers).  Since 2008, they have played in four tie games (vs. the Eagles in 2008, vs. the Panthers in 2014, vs. the Redskins in 2016, and again vs. the Eagles this year).  And this is with the old sudden death/new overtime rules!

As far as teams that have tied the most since the OT rule was introduced for the 1974 NFL season, Green Bay has had 6 ties, Philadelphia has had 5 ties, and Cincinnati, Arizona, and Minnesota have had 4 ties.  Minnesota and Green Bay have tied three times since 1974 in games played against one another (1978, 2013, and 2018). 

For purists, a tie is like "kissing your sister".  However, since 1972, tie games have counted in the standings.  Before, tie games were not counted.  For example, in 1971, Kansas City finished the season with a 10-3-1 record and a .769 winning percentage.  In 1972, the NFL decreed that ties would be counted as "a half-game win and a half-game loss".  So, in that year, Oakland finished the season 10-3-1 with a .750 winning percentage. 

So, using a hypothetical scenario, using the old system, team A finishes 9-2-3 (San Diego's record in 1965) and team B finishes 10-3-1 in the same division.  Team A would advance to the playoffs with a .818 winning percentage and team B would have been left out or have been a wild card with a .769 winning percentage.  Under the "tie counts" system, both team A and team B would have .750 winning percentages and then would have to go to the NFL tiebreaker procedures to determine the division champion.

In other words, it is always better to play for a tie, if you must, because it is a half-win rather than chancing a win, falling short, and having an "L" on your record.
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amroad17

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 05, 2020, 11:05:02 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 05, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 05, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Has there ever been an "if we tie we both advance to playoffs" situation in American football or hockey? (Baseball and basketball can't end in ties except for unusual circumstances, and I know the answer is yes for association football.)
Sarcastic answer: Yes, any time two teams that have already clinched playoff berths play each other.
Serious answer: Not in a very long time, if ever. But a similar thing I can remember was on the final day of the 2018 regular season, when the Steelers, who had just lost out on their division title, needed the Colts and Titans to tie to advance to the playoffs.

I think he's referring to a scenario like this:

(Note: this is under the old format of two wild cards, since a third was added for 2020)

We'll have Teams A, B, and C. Let's say C has beaten both A and B and has the head to head tiebreakers over both.

Teams A and B are 9-6 heading into Week 17 leading the Wild Card positions and are playing. Team C is 8-7 and can get into the playoffs with a win as they'll overtake the loser of A vs. B. Teams A and B can play for a tie because no matter what C does, C can't have a better win percentage than either A or B (9-6-1 vs. 9-7).
Could you imagine what the conspiracy theorists would say if that situation ever did happen?  Especially if New England was involved?  :nod:
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

webny99

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 05, 2020, 11:05:02 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 05, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 05, 2020, 08:26:08 PM
Has there ever been an "if we tie we both advance to playoffs" situation in American football or hockey? (Baseball and basketball can't end in ties except for unusual circumstances, and I know the answer is yes for association football.)
Sarcastic answer: Yes, any time two teams that have already clinched playoff berths play each other.
Serious answer: Not in a very long time, if ever. But a similar thing I can remember was on the final day of the 2018 regular season, when the Steelers, who had just lost out on their division title, needed the Colts and Titans to tie to advance to the playoffs.

I think he's referring to a scenario like this:

(Note: this is under the old format of two wild cards, since a third was added for 2020)

We'll have Teams A, B, and C. Let's say C has beaten both A and B and has the head to head tiebreakers over both.

Teams A and B are 9-6 heading into Week 17 leading the Wild Card positions and are playing. Team C is 8-7 and can get into the playoffs with a win as they'll overtake the loser of A vs. B. Teams A and B can play for a tie because no matter what C does, C can't have a better win percentage than either A or B (9-6-1 vs. 9-7).

Great explanation. I was trying to think of a good way to explain that it could happen, even though it's unlikely. It could also still happen if you took Team C is out of the picture (Teams A and B tie and both make the playoffs at 9-6-1), there just wouldn't be the same incentive to tie unless Team C was involved.

The same situation could also happen under the new format, say if another team had already clinched the #5 seed with an 11-5 record.

webny99

#181
The Bears are maddening. I convince myself they're going to lose, and then they win. And yet, I'm not mad at myself for picking their opponents. I'm not mad at their opponents for losing, either. I'm just mad at them for winning, because they're 4-1 and should be more like 1-4.

jmacswimmer

Quote from: webny99 on October 09, 2020, 08:21:05 AM
The Bears are maddening. I convince myself they're going to lose, and then they win. And yet, I'm not mad at myself for picking their opponents. I'm not mad at their opponents for losing, either. I'm just mad at them for winning, because they're 4-1 and should be more like 1-4.

The Bears need to stop doing this to me on a weekly basis, all 4 wins have come with heart attacks down the stretch :crazy:

But it's definitely a very strange 4-1...I also said this in this thread after the Falcons game but they could very easily be 0-5 right now (this time courtesy of a few questionable calls against the Bucs, and Tom Brady apparently thinking it was 3rd down on the failed 4th down).

Also, this was hands down my favorite moment from the game (low-key surprised unnecessary roughness wasn't called, TBH):

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1314390101087133698
"Now, what if da Bearss were to enter the Indianapolis 5-hunnert?"
"How would they compete?"
"Let's say they rode together in a big buss."
"Is Ditka driving?"
"Of course!"
"Then I like da Bear buss."
"DA BEARSSS BUSSSS"

thspfc

Quote from: webny99 on October 09, 2020, 08:21:05 AM
The Bears are maddening. I convince myself they're going to lose, and then they win. And yet, I'm not mad at myself for picking their opponents. I'm not mad at their opponents for losing, either. I'm just mad at them for winning, because they're 4-1 and should be more like 1-4.
Not really. They've played five close games. Basic probability says you would expect them to win 2-3 of those games. So them being 1-4 would be just as unlikely as them being 4-1.

SSOWorld

Quote from: jmacswimmer on October 09, 2020, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 09, 2020, 08:21:05 AM
The Bears are maddening. I convince myself they're going to lose, and then they win. And yet, I'm not mad at myself for picking their opponents. I'm not mad at their opponents for losing, either. I'm just mad at them for winning, because they're 4-1 and should be more like 1-4.

The Bears need to stop doing this to me on a weekly basis, all 4 wins have come with heart attacks down the stretch :crazy:

But it's definitely a very strange 4-1...I also said this in this thread after the Falcons game but they could very easily be 0-5 right now (this time courtesy of a few questionable calls against the Bucs, and Tom Brady apparently thinking it was 3rd down on the failed 4th down).

Also, this was hands down my favorite moment from the game (low-key surprised unnecessary roughness wasn't called, TBH):

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1314390101087133698
Mack used Wirf's momentum against him.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

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webny99

Quote from: thspfc on October 09, 2020, 03:27:43 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 09, 2020, 08:21:05 AM
The Bears are maddening. I convince myself they're going to lose, and then they win. And yet, I'm not mad at myself for picking their opponents. I'm not mad at their opponents for losing, either. I'm just mad at them for winning, because they're 4-1 and should be more like 1-4.
Not really. They've played five close games. Basic probability says you would expect them to win 2-3 of those games. So them being 1-4 would be just as unlikely as them being 4-1.

But when you look at the games, that's not really the case. All four wins came down to one or two decisive plays in their favor, it's really more like they've been lucky and pulled several wins out of the fire.

webny99

Just for fun, I decided to try to rank the toughness of the NFL divisions heading into Week 5.
Here's what I came up with, starting with toughest and ending with easiest:

1. NFC West
2. AFC North
3. NFC South
4. NFC North
5. AFC West
6. AFC East
7. AFC South
8. NFC East

Then I ran FiveThirtyEight's Elo ratings to obtain an average Elo for each division. I was surprised to find that I got 6 of 8 in the exact same order. The only difference was that my #3 NFC South and #5 AFC West were flipped, with the NFC South falling to #5 and the AFC West rising to #3. I guess the Chiefs are just that good.

1995hoo

Kyle Allen out of the game after a helmet-to-helmet hit, so Alex Smith is playing quarterback for the Redskins.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

CoreySamson

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Kyle Allen out of the game after a helmet-to-helmet hit, so Alex Smith is playing quarterback for the Redskins.

No, it's the Washington Eagles
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
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Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

webny99


thspfc

Quote from: CoreySamson on October 11, 2020, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Kyle Allen out of the game after a helmet-to-helmet hit, so Alex Smith is playing quarterback for the Redskins.

No, it's the Washington Eagles
He's throwing a fit over a team changing their nickname so don't pay any attention to him.
Anyways, Cowboys win. Search "Dak Prescott injury" at your own risk.

webny99

Heartbreaking loss for both the Cowboys and the Giants.

1995hoo

#192
Quote from: thspfc on October 11, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on October 11, 2020, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Kyle Allen out of the game after a helmet-to-helmet hit, so Alex Smith is playing quarterback for the Redskins.

No, it's the Washington Eagles
He's throwing a fit over a team changing their nickname so don't pay any attention to him.
Anyways, Cowboys win. Search "Dak Prescott injury" at your own risk.

Honestly, shut up. You're the guy who criticizes me every time I say "Redskins." I just use the name and I don't engage in commentary about it (until this post, because I've had enough of your whining). If anyone's "throwing a fit," it's you–you feel the need to cry about it every time I use that name, apparently because you have no sense of humor. It's a joke! If you don't like it, put me on ignore. Even one of the TV commentators said "Redskins" today. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL!!!! Heck, I remember a few years ago when one of the referees came out for the coin toss and called what is now known as the Las Vegas Football Team "Los Angeles" (which they haven't been since 1994).

If it makes you feel any better, I call the NBA team the Bullets, too.

Besides, if you didn't get the joke CoreySamson was making, then you need to reread the thread. I also note you don't whine about the European member who goes on about coming up with different names for every arena.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

BTW, rather creepy for Prescott to suffer that injury on the same day Alex Smith returned.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

thspfc

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 08:53:41 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 11, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on October 11, 2020, 05:31:09 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Kyle Allen out of the game after a helmet-to-helmet hit, so Alex Smith is playing quarterback for the Redskins.

No, it's the Washington Eagles
He's throwing a fit over a team changing their nickname so don't pay any attention to him.
Anyways, Cowboys win. Search "Dak Prescott injury" at your own risk.

Honestly, shut the fuck up. You're the jackass who criticizes me every time I say "Redskins." If anyone's "pitching a fit," it's you–you feel the need to cry about it every time I use that name. If you don't like it, put me on ignore. Even one of the TV commentators said "Redskins" today. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL!!!! Heck, I remember a few years ago when one of the referees came out for the coin toss and called what is now known as the Las Vegas Football Team "Los Angeles" (which they haven't been since 1994).

If it makes you feel any better, I call the NBA team the Bullets, too.

Besides, if you didn't get the joke CoreySamson was making, then you need to reread the thread. I also note you don't whine about the European member who goes on about coming up with different names for every arena.
Wow. Can you, in good standing with basic logic, continue to insist that I'm the one who needs to be quiet when you just used language that quite obviously potrays anger? It wouldn't be a big deal if you just casually said the old name, but instead you have to go on and say you are calling every other team the "Football Team". Do you see where you come across as the disgruntled one?
And by the way, I do understand what "Washington Eagles" means.

Alps


Alps

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 08:57:38 PM
BTW, rather creepy for Prescott to suffer that injury on the same day Alex Smith returned.
Continuity of a quarterback out of service due to a major leg injury. You know the deal.
(Dak was heading to Fort Worth but his foot wanted to visit Dallas. Too soon?)

1995hoo

Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2020, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 08:57:38 PM
BTW, rather creepy for Prescott to suffer that injury on the same day Alex Smith returned.
Continuity of a quarterback out of service due to a major leg injury. You know the deal.
(Dak was heading to Fort Worth but his foot wanted to visit Dallas. Too soon?)

My wife was in the other room and heard me make a grimacing sort of noise and wanted to know what was wrong. When I said Prescott's leg did something that reminded me of Theismann and Smith, she immediately said she didn't need to see the video. I saw the play live and the replay once. That's plenty.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

webny99

Quote from: Alps on October 11, 2020, 09:16:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 11, 2020, 08:57:38 PM
BTW, rather creepy for Prescott to suffer that injury on the same day Alex Smith returned.
Continuity of a quarterback out of service due to a major leg injury. You know the deal.
(Dak was heading to Fort Worth but his foot wanted to visit Dallas. Too soon?)

Oof. A little too soon. That was tough, and I even got a bit emotional watching the footage. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

1995hoo

Those fluorescent green jerseys the Seattle Football Team are wearing tonight are hideous. They remind me of the old Orlando Thunder of the WLAF almost 30 years ago, though I seem to recall the Thunder's jerseys seeming to be an even more cloyingly bright color. Whether that was because of the lousier TV picture back then, stadium lighting issues, or just the mental cobwebs that accumulate over 30 years, I have no idea.




As an aside, turning to this game and seeing Kirk Cousins playing was sort of striking. Recall the Redskins (clearly the right name in the time period I'm about to mention) had Robert Griffin anointed as the quarterback of the future only to see him lose his job to Cousins, who wore jersey #8 (same as he does in Minnesota). They now have Dwayne Haskins, who just lost his job to Kyle Allen, who wears jersey #8. Obviously, if you're going to start in Washington, you need to insist your backup not wear #8.  :-D
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.



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