NFL (2024 Season)

[TheHighwayMan3561]

That 3rd quarter by the Bucs was giving me nightmare flashbacks to yesterday's Vikings 1st half.

-3 turnovers
-failed fake punt
-17 points allowed
-4th down defensive stop negated by penalty
-dropped pick
-kick returner error resulted in starting a drive inside their 10

[webny99]

Hi, as you can tell by my username, I am a big Jets fan, and I was just wondering if you think they can still make a push for the playoffs. Sitting at 7-7 and 4th in the AFC. If the Patriots and Chargers lose, then we will still be tied, but both teams have tiebreakers against us. Just wondering if y'all think they can still get into the playoffs.

They still have a 21% chance, according to FiveThirtyEight. The Ravens and Chargers both have easy remaining schedules and are very likely in, so it will be the 3 AFC East teams battling for the final spot. Jets will probably have to win out and will certainly need to beat the Dolphins in Week 18 to have any chance of getting in.

[gonealookin]

"What the hell, it's the final play of regulation, we might as well try some laterals."  The New England Patriots demonstrated rather clearly why that's not necessarily a very good idea.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

"What the hell, it's the final play of regulation, we might as well try some laterals."  The New England Patriots demonstrated rather clearly why that's not necessarily a very good idea.

Basically, you should never do this when you're tied/leading.

[Roadgeekteen]

 

[Ted$8roadFan]

Patriots-Raiders.  W.T.F.?

All they had to do was run out the clock and head into overtime. Instead.......an inexplicable loss. For a supposedly disciplined team, it was the worst time to break down and practice lateral passing. Now it's on to Cincinnati...a phrase that actually has meaning now.

[thspfc]

Prior to that debacle was another hilariously bad call on the incomplete pass to Keenan Cole that was ruled a touchdown. I hardly ever complain about referees; it's one thing to make an unpopular but subjective call (PI, roughing the passer), it's another to be blatantly definitively wrong on a massive game-changing play - after reviewing it. Questionable pass interference calls are more excusable because they happen so fast and (for some reason) are not reviewable, but with a simple binary rule like both feet inbounds and the opportunity to review the play, it's embarrassing that they got that wrong.

2 of the 3 worst calls/non-calls I've ever seen have taken place in the last two days (other being in the 2018 NFC title game). The league needs to take some legitimate action here so that this doesn't continue into the playoffs.

Bad loss for Dallas after leading 27-10 at one point in the 3rd quarter. Jags TD, Dak pick, Jags TD, three and out, Jags TD. Plus another three and out in the last two minutes of the 4th, which allowed Jacksonville to send it to overtime, and of course the pick six to end it. Giving the ball back to the other offense so quickly will kill you in today's NFL.

The good news is that it hopefully won't matter. The division is a loss anyway. One more win will likely secure the 5 seed, which means facing the NFC South champion in the wild card. I like Dallas' chances against whoever that is. After that, just gotta hope for the best against Philly and/or San Fran. Minnesota would be the ideal divisional round matchup, but I really don't see the Niners losing in the wild card, meaning the Cowboys would go to either Philly or San Fran for the divisional.

[webny99]

There have been some great weeks of games this season, but it's hard to argue this wasn't THE best week.

-Colts-Vikings largest comeback in history; Dolphins-Bills winter classic
-All 6 early games within one score including Cowboys-Jaguars and Chiefs-Texans(!?) going to OT and Lions-Jets coming down to the wire
-Brady implosion in Bengals-Bucs, Titans-Chargers down to the wire, and whatever that insane Pats-Raiders finish was

SNF is still a question mark, but so far, Browns-Ravens was the only dud all weekend.

[NWI_Irish96]

There have been some great weeks of games this season, but it's hard to argue this wasn't THE best week.

-Colts-Vikings largest comeback in history; Dolphins-Bills winter classic
-All 6 early games within one score including Cowboys-Jaguars and Chiefs-Texans(!?) going to OT and Lions-Jets coming down to the wire
-Brady implosion in Bengals-Bucs, Titans-Chargers down to the wire, and whatever that insane Pats-Raiders finish was

SNF is still a question mark, but so far, Browns-Ravens was the only dud all weekend.

I was watching NFL Red Zone and told my son he needed to come out and watch because two of the late games were going to overtime, and then somehow neither of them did.

[webny99]

I was watching NFL Red Zone and told my son he needed to come out and watch because two of the late games were going to overtime, and then somehow neither of them did.

With 50 seconds left, I figured the Chargers had a decent chance of winning in regulation, but it took one of the most bizarre plays ever to keep Pats/Raiders from going to OT.

It is also interesting that both Brady and the Patriots had their worst meltdown since they separated at pretty much the same time.

[gonealookin]

Prior to that debacle was another hilariously bad call on the incomplete pass to Keenan Cole that was ruled a touchdown. I hardly ever complain about referees; it's one thing to make an unpopular but subjective call (PI, roughing the passer), it's another to be blatantly definitively wrong on a massive game-changing play - after reviewing it. Questionable pass interference calls are more excusable because they happen so fast and (for some reason) are not reviewable, but with a simple binary rule like both feet inbounds and the opportunity to review the play, it's embarrassing that they got that wrong.

2 of the 3 worst calls/non-calls I've ever seen have taken place in the last two days (other being in the 2018 NFC title game). The league needs to take some legitimate action here so that this doesn't continue into the playoffs.

There was no camera angle that showed a direct down-the-sideline view on that.  The angle that appeared to show the toe out of bounds was from behind the goal posts, and that offset creates a bit of a distorted view.  I was inclined to stick with "play stands as called" by the official on the field who probably was looking directly down the sideline.

As to "fixing it for the playoffs"...well that will happen because playoff games are covered by many more cameras, I'm sure some of which would be down-the-line views including pylon cams.  Today's game was one of five Fox had today and glancing at The 506 maps it was probably #3 in distribution, so it wouldn't have had any extra cameras beyond what is network standard for an adequate production.

[jeffandnicole]

Prior to that debacle was another hilariously bad call on the incomplete pass to Keenan Cole that was ruled a touchdown. I hardly ever complain about referees; it's one thing to make an unpopular but subjective call (PI, roughing the passer), it's another to be blatantly definitively wrong on a massive game-changing play - after reviewing it. Questionable pass interference calls are more excusable because they happen so fast and (for some reason) are not reviewable, but with a simple binary rule like both feet inbounds and the opportunity to review the play, it's embarrassing that they got that wrong.

2 of the 3 worst calls/non-calls I've ever seen have taken place in the last two days (other being in the 2018 NFC title game). The league needs to take some legitimate action here so that this doesn't continue into the playoffs.

There was no camera angle that showed a direct down-the-sideline view on that.  The angle that appeared to show the toe out of bounds was from behind the goal posts, and that offset creates a bit of a distorted view.  I was inclined to stick with "play stands as called" by the official on the field who probably was looking directly down the sideline.

As to "fixing it for the playoffs"...well that will happen because playoff games are covered by many more cameras, I'm sure some of which would be down-the-line views including pylon cams.  Today's game was one of five Fox had today and glancing at The 506 maps it was probably #3 in distribution, so it wouldn't have had any extra cameras beyond what is network standard for an adequate production.

Not to mention in today's age, we are so dependent on wanting every angle possible on ultra-clear screens, that while people think today's refs are worse than previous eras, it's really because in previous eras there weren't as many camera angles available, and there was nothing we could see to counter the ref's ruling.  Even instant replays were quite primitive.

As recently as the 80's and early 90's, many games had only 4 cameras:  At the 50 yard line, both 20 yard lines, and 1 end zone (not even both). Today's games have about double that for just basic cameras; "Games of the Week" probably have more than a dozen.

Rules are different too.  It wasn't that long ago only 1 foot had to be in bounds.  Mandating 2 feet be in bounds is where a lot of the arguments have occurred, since that second foot is often a critical inch in or out.

[Alps]

Hi, as you can tell by my username, I am a big Jets fan, and I was just wondering if you think they can still make a push for the playoffs. Sitting at 7-7 and 4th in the AFC. If the Patriots and Chargers lose, then we will still be tied, but both teams have tiebreakers against us. Just wondering if y'all think they can still get into the playoffs.

No. At 7-3 I said the Jets wouldn't win another game. I stand by this as a Jets fan.

[jeffandnicole]

The ending of the Patriots-Raiders game today is reminiscent of the original 'Miracle in the Meadowlands'. In that game, all the Giants had to do was take a knee and the game would have been over. For some reason, the Giants ran a play, fumbled the ball, and the Eagles were able to score a late game-winning touchdown.

https://youtu.be/hfOiY5MhqHA

In today's game, Patriots could have easily just taken a knee and gone into overtime. They decided to try for a low-chance touchdown. Once the ball was fumbled and recovered by the Patriots, they should have went down or out of bounds to go into OT. The lateral was probably one of the dumbest moves ever made during a tied game as time elapsed in which another opportunity was highly probable, and the result was a defensive recovery by the Raiders and touchdown for the win.

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1604672340301946880?t=yVDrTnNwv5A6xGZjWOSVKA&s=19

[amroad17]

The ending of the Patriots-Raiders game today is reminiscent of the original 'Miracle in the Meadowlands'. In that game, all the Giants had to do was take a knee and the game would have been over. For some reason, the Giants ran a play, fumbled the ball, and the Eagles were able to score a late game-winning touchdown.

https://youtu.be/hfOiY5MhqHA

In today's game, Patriots could have easily just taken a knee and gone into overtime. They decided to try for a low-chance touchdown. Once the ball was fumbled and recovered by the Patriots, they should have went down or out of bounds to go into OT. The lateral was probably one of the dumbest moves ever made during a tied game as time elapsed in which another opportunity was highly probable, and the result was a defensive recovery by the Raiders and touchdown for the win.

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1604672340301946880?t=yVDrTnNwv5A6xGZjWOSVKA&s=19

As far the "The Miracle in the Meadowlands", the "Victory Formation" was not thought of then.  In fact, it wasn't until 1987 that the rule allowing QBs to simply kneel was allowed.  Sure, Giants QB Joe Pisarcik could have backed up, held the ball, and then fallen down when a defensive person came near him, which he did on the prior play, instead of running the fateful play.  However, the MLB for the Eagles, Bill Bergey, knocked the center for the Giants into Pisarcik trying to cause a fumble.  The offensive coordinator for the Giants, Bob Gibson, did not want to risk an injury to Pisarcik, and, in the prevailing attitude of the time that simply "falling on the ball" was not sporting, called the running play to Larry Csonka.  The players in the huddle were like WTF? and Csonka said to not hand the ball to him.  Well, because the Giants were late leaving the huddle because of the play call, the play clock was winding down.  The center snapped the ball early, so Pisarcik never had a strong grip of the ball.  He turned, the ball went off of Csonka's hip, and into the hands of Herman "We play to win the game" Edwards for the TD and history.

In fact, earlier that 1978 season, Washington played Dallas on Monday Night Football on October 2.  Washington was leading 9-3 and were inside their own 20 as time was running out.  Washington QB Joe Theismann took the snap and backed up and kept backing up toward his own end zone as the game clock was getting closer to 0:00.  He finally reached the end zone, fell down, and was touched (shoved) by Randy White of Dallas as time expired, having the final score of 9-5, Washington.  Just another example of the prevailing attitude of the time.

The Patriots play was one of the stupidest in NFL history.  If Tom Brady was there, this would never had happened.  He would have just taken a knee and played for OT.  This was just an example of players trying to do too much (and maybe looking for a highlight on ESPN, which they did get  ) and, unfortunately, taking defeat right out of the mouth of a possible victory or tie.  It is a wonder that Roadgeekteen hasn't demanded that Jakobi Meyers be immediately waived.

BTW, Stevenson didn't fumble--he actually lateraled to Meyers on the play.

[Roadgeekteen]

Another poor ref call on SNF.

[jgb191]

The roster-depleted Texans are losing players as much as they are losing fourth-quarter leads; they lost SEVEN (7) leads in the fourth quarter and lost just as many starters in the process.  They need something -- anything -- to boost their spirits/morale, but how are they going to find it in Tennessee on Christmas Day?


Also why didn't Bill Belichick just opt to play overtime?  Wait that couldn't have possibly been him; he would NEVER make senseless decisions like that.  So who was that imposter on the sideline calling plays for the Patriots?

[jgb191]

Championships aren't as prestigious when there were fewer teams in existence....

In the mid-1990s there were only about twenty-something teams in the league -- a lot less competition than there are now (32 teams).  The Texans didn't exist until 2002 (the year I started watching the game; I had no interest before my Texans debut); also Baltimore, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Carolina, and St. Louis didn't have teams back then either.

[amroad17]

Patriots-Raiders.  W.T.F.?

All they had to do was run out the clock and head into overtime. Instead.......an inexplicable loss. For a supposedly disciplined team, it was the worst time to break down and practice lateral passing. Now it's on to Cincinnati...a phrase that actually has meaning now.

Yes, the 10-4 first place Bengals (10-2 after an 0-2 start) are visiting Gillette next week.  This after spotting Tom Brady a 17-point lead and then erasing it rather quickly.  Also, this is the first loss on home turf that Tom Brady experienced when he had a lead of 17 or more points (89-1).  Even though Brady isn't having a bad season passing statistically, it surely is not anywhere close to his standards.  He is averaging 6.3 yds/attempt and only 9.5 yds/completion.  66% completion percentage. TD/Int ratio: 20/7, passer rating: 89.1.  Team record: 6-8, and have scored 247 pts, second lowest in the NFC (Rams: 218 in 13 games).  Divorce seems to be a bitch, doesn't it.

We will have to see if the Patriots can recover from this debacle.

In other NFL observations, how can a team be 11-3 (Minnesota Vikings) and outscore your opponents by two points (351-349)?  Crazy, when it seems as if every game you win is by one possession, aided by a 33 points down comeback, and the games you lose are blowouts.  Of course, there have been many teams with winning records that have had a negative point differential (one glaring example: 1978 Houston Oilers, 10-6 283 PF 298 PA and a playoff appearance, reaching the AFC Championship Game losing 34-5 to Pittsburgh).  Heck, in 1971 the Cincinnati Bengals were 4-10 and outscored the opposition 286-265.

There is a chance that both conferences South division could have first place teams with losing records.  If Tampa Bay loses one more game, then the NFC South will be a definite as the other three teams are currently 5-9.  Tennessee currently is leading the AFC South at 7-7 with Jacksonville (!?!) behind them at 6-8.

Even though the Cowboys are 10-4, I do not believe they could be trusted in the playoffs.  They could easily be bounced out by a lesser team as well as possibly winning a playoff game or two.  I guess it depends on how well Coach McCarthy is thinking that day.

The Philadelphia Eagles appear to be the best team in the NFL at the moment (13-1, best record in the league, duh), with Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Kansas City right behind them.  I can see the Eagles be the NFC representative at Super Bowl LVII with a dogfight between the other three teams mentioned above as the AFC representative.  If I had to pick right now, I would go with Cincinnati.

[amroad17]

Championships aren't as prestigious when there were fewer teams in existence....

In the mid-1990s there were only about twenty-something teams in the league -- a lot less competition than there are now (32 teams).  The Texans didn't exist until 2002 (the year I started watching the game; I had no interest before my Texans debut); also Baltimore, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Carolina, and St. Louis didn't have teams back then either.

The NFL had 26 teams from 1970-75, 28 teams from 1976-1994, 30 teams from 1995-1998, 31 teams from 1999-2001, and 32 teams from 2002-present.  Basically, a Super Bowl victory in 1971 (Super Bowl V) should be as prestigious as one from 2021 as there are only six more teams now than there were in 1970.  Now, whether the NFL Champion or the AFL Champion before 1966, or the first four Super Bowl winners is considered "prestigious" is up for debate as the NFL had 14 teams in 1965, 15 teams in 1966, and 16 teams in 1967-69; the AFL had 8 teams in 1965, 9 teams in 1966-67, and 10 teams in 1968-69.

There was also a prevailing attitude that the fewer the teams means that only the "most talented" players ever played in that league and that any expansion would dilute that said talent.  For example, with a 40-man roster limit in the NFL in the early- to mid-1960's, that meant that 560 of the "most talented" players were playing in the NFL.  With an expansion in Atlanta in 1966 and New Orleans in 1967, that meant that the talent pool was now diluted with a total of 640 players, with the thought that these 80 extra players would not have been in the NFL in 1965.  Of course, that thought is bull.  There were fringe players on every team then.  Not everyone was good enough to play in the NFL, even if they were on one then.

Now things are different, especially with today's game.  Players train better, eat better, and generally devote themselves to playing in the NFL.  The main reason is that players now are paid much, much, much better than those who played before 1982.  The players then (especially in the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's) worked off-season jobs for the extra income they needed and were not able to continually stay in shape during the off-season.  They would use the six week preseason to get back in "football playing shape" for the regular season.  Today, players have only three weeks to prove themselves or be ready for the season, thus the off-season training programs developed for them.

[epzik8]

Refs wanted to get back at us for Philly I suppose. What can you do.

[thspfc]

Refs wanted to get back at us for Philly I suppose. What can you do.

Reviewable pass interference please . . .

[gr8daynegb]

Patriots-Raiders.  W.T.F.?

All they had to do was run out the clock and head into overtime. Instead.......an inexplicable loss. For a supposedly disciplined team, it was the worst time to break down and practice lateral passing. Now it's on to Cincinnati...a phrase that actually has meaning now.

Yes, the 10-4 first place Bengals (10-2 after an 0-2 start) are visiting Gillette next week.  This after spotting Tom Brady a 17-point lead and then erasing it rather quickly.  Also, this is the first loss on home turf that Tom Brady experienced when he had a lead of 17 or more points (89-1).  Even though Brady isn't having a bad season passing statistically, it surely is not anywhere close to his standards.  He is averaging 6.3 yds/attempt and only 9.5 yds/completion.  66% completion percentage. TD/Int ratio: 20/7, passer rating: 89.1.  Team record: 6-8, and have scored 247 pts, second lowest in the NFC (Rams: 218 in 13 games).  Divorce seems to be a bitch, doesn't it.

We will have to see if the Patriots can recover from this debacle.

In other NFL observations, how can a team be 11-3 (Minnesota Vikings) and outscore your opponents by two points (351-349)?  Crazy, when it seems as if every game you win is by one possession, aided by a 33 points down comeback, and the games you lose are blowouts.  Of course, there have been many teams with winning records that have had a negative point differential (one glaring example: 1978 Houston Oilers, 10-6 283 PF 298 PA and a playoff appearance, reaching the AFC Championship Game losing 34-5 to Pittsburgh).  Heck, in 1971 the Cincinnati Bengals were 4-10 and outscored the opposition 286-265.

There is a chance that both conferences South division could have first place teams with losing records.  If Tampa Bay loses one more game, then the NFC South will be a definite as the other three teams are currently 5-9.  Tennessee currently is leading the AFC South at 7-7 with Jacksonville (!?!) behind them at 6-8.

Even though the Cowboys are 10-4, I do not believe they could be trusted in the playoffs.  They could easily be bounced out by a lesser team as well as possibly winning a playoff game or two.  I guess it depends on how well Coach McCarthy is thinking that day.

The Philadelphia Eagles appear to be the best team in the NFL at the moment (13-1, best record in the league, duh), with Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Kansas City right behind them.  I can see the Eagles be the NFC representative at Super Bowl LVII with a dogfight between the other three teams mentioned above as the AFC representative.  If I had to pick right now, I would go with Cincinnati.

It's hard to trust anyone in the NFC come start of the playoffs.  The Vikings had two teams implode on them the last month and are nowhere as good as their record. Cowboys would be 8-6 right now if the Colts and Texans weren't on the schedule the last few weeks.   Eagles seem to be the class of the NFC but have had too many close calls against weak teams of late.  Washington and New York are overachieving for the season but really aren't all that good.  The NFC South is fortunate they have to send one team to the playoffs. The 49ers look the most consistent but to trust their 3rd string qb?  The Seahawks are hitting a wall.  Lions are playing great, but we expect them to mess it up, because they are the Lions.  And Packers if they were lucky enough to claw back and nab the last playoff spot is still not a good team.

Eagles will be my favorites to win the NFC but will pick whoever wins the AFC to win the Superbowl

[jeffandnicole]

BTW, Stevenson didn't fumble--he actually lateraled to Meyers on the play.

That's what I read later on.  Although at the time, at real speed, it looked like the ball had slipped up and out, with an intentional lateral afterwards (that was intercepted).

Refs wanted to get back at us for Philly I suppose. What can you do.

Reviewable pass interference please . . .

I'm on the fence on this one.  A lot of people complaint that the refs need to let the teams play and stop calling so many penalties, yet those same people want to make penalties reviewable when one was missed.  If they start reviewing them, then people will ultra-slow mo the replays to find a ticky-tack touch that is an "obvious" interference.  Sure, if the guy is mowed down it's obvious.  But do fans start getting to the point where they cry foul because a thread of a uniform was touched?

Eagles seem to be the class of the NFC but have had too many close calls against weak teams of late.

I'd argue they've played this way all season.  Not every game is going to be a 56-7 blowout.  They're still winning the games with room to spare.  8 of their 13 wins have been by 9+ points (2 possession games). 

Their point differential is a huge +143.  Dallas isn't that far off in that department because they ran up the scoreboard a few times, but 3 additional losses tells the real story.   Giants are 8-5-1 yet are -25 in point differential.

[gr8daynegb]

BTW, Stevenson didn't fumble--he actually lateraled to Meyers on the play.

That's what I read later on.  Although at the time, at real speed, it looked like the ball had slipped up and out, with an intentional lateral afterwards (that was intercepted).

Refs wanted to get back at us for Philly I suppose. What can you do.

Reviewable pass interference please . . .

I'm on the fence on this one.  A lot of people complaint that the refs need to let the teams play and stop calling so many penalties, yet those same people want to make penalties reviewable when one was missed.  If they start reviewing them, then people will ultra-slow mo the replays to find a ticky-tack touch that is an "obvious" interference.  Sure, if the guy is mowed down it's obvious.  But do fans start getting to the point where they cry foul because a thread of a uniform was touched?

Eagles seem to be the class of the NFC but have had too many close calls against weak teams of late.

I'd argue they've played this way all season.  Not every game is going to be a 56-7 blowout.  They're still winning the games with room to spare.  8 of their 13 wins have been by 9+ points (2 possession games). 

Their point differential is a huge +143.  Dallas isn't that far off in that department because they ran up the scoreboard a few times, but 3 additional losses tells the real story.   Giants are 8-5-1 yet are -25 in point differential.

Guess depends what version shows up them.  Those games vs the Colts, Bears, Packers, and Commanders to me says they are very beatable.  Eagles will still be the favorite, but the eye test says they are vulnerable. They cowboys are the great mystery.  On paper they should be right there with the Eagles, but that team mentally you never get a read on.  For me as a Packers fan has me looking at guys like Elliot, Dak, and other long-term Cowboys as to what presence they are in the locker room.  Not saying McCarthy is blameless, but the Cowboys before McCarthy with this core have patterns of playing down to the competition like they have the last 3 weeks.  I'm looking more in that direction first then their coach.