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[1995hoo]

The biggest problem with the FIFA World Cup in Dallas is that it's at Jerryworld. There are a couple of problems with the stadium:

• Hopefully, FIFA will insist on curtains to block that sun from those windows.
• Arlington has absolutely NO transit solutions whatsoever. Thus, getting to the game will also pose a challenge.

It's still a better venue than Levi's Bake and Burn Stadium in Santa Clara.

This is America. We don't take transit to stadiums.

You misspelled "I," as in referring to yourself.

And don't triple post.

[thspfc]

People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture.

..and should at least have some of its cuisine.  Kansas City's famous Bar-b-que joints will surely be taking in some big business, feeding folks from across the world.

While KC will certainly see many international travelers for the tournament, I’ll bet it’s the fewest of any of the host cities. Very inland (so longer flight) and not a major destination for someone who has no or limited experience with the country.

Way too early to plan for this, but I might look at tickets for LA since I’ve never been out there and the stadium is awesome.

[kernals12]

People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture.

..and should at least have some of its cuisine.  Kansas City's famous Bar-b-que joints will surely be taking in some big business, feeding folks from across the world.

While KC will certainly see many international travelers for the tournament, I’ll bet it’s the fewest of any of the host cities. Very inland (so longer flight) and not a major destination for someone who has no or limited experience with the country.

Way too early to plan for this, but I might look at tickets for LA since I’ve never been out there and the stadium is awesome.

LA is going to be holding tailgate parties on the 405.

[JayhawkCO]

Speaking of which... why can't you easily get to Gillette Stadium from Providence on the commuter rail? They might need a shuttle service from the Mansfield and/or Sharon station to Gillette Stadium if there isn't already one.

And don't triple post.

Another major snub: Phoenix. That's probably because of the heat.

Eh. People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture. To me, Phoenix is the big metro in the U.S. with the least.

I saw tons of culture when I was there.

Strip malls and Scottsdale Karens? 

[MikeTheActuary]

..and should at least have some of its cuisine.  Kansas City's famous Bar-b-que joints will surely be taking in some big business, feeding folks from across the world.

Shame they'll be exposed to inferior 'que. 

[kernals12]

Speaking of which... why can't you easily get to Gillette Stadium from Providence on the commuter rail? They might need a shuttle service from the Mansfield and/or Sharon station to Gillette Stadium if there isn't already one.

And don't triple post.

Another major snub: Phoenix. That's probably because of the heat.

Eh. People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture. To me, Phoenix is the big metro in the U.S. with the least.

I saw tons of culture when I was there.

Strip malls and Scottsdale Karens? 

I saw a very lively space at Scottsdale Fashion Center. They've also got tons of museums which don't charge an arm and a leg for parking

[JayhawkCO]

Speaking of which... why can't you easily get to Gillette Stadium from Providence on the commuter rail? They might need a shuttle service from the Mansfield and/or Sharon station to Gillette Stadium if there isn't already one.

And don't triple post.

Another major snub: Phoenix. That's probably because of the heat.

Eh. People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture. To me, Phoenix is the big metro in the U.S. with the least.

I saw tons of culture when I was there.

Strip malls and Scottsdale Karens? 

I saw a very lively space at Scottsdale Fashion Center. They've also got tons of museums which don't charge an arm and a leg for parks

If you're going to use a mall as an indication of culture, we very likely have an incredibly different definition of the term.

[NWI_Irish96]

People who are going to come visit the U.S. should at least visit some culture.

..and should at least have some of its cuisine.  Kansas City's famous Bar-b-que joints will surely be taking in some big business, feeding folks from across the world.

While KC will certainly see many international travelers for the tournament, I’ll bet it’s the fewest of any of the host cities. Very inland (so longer flight) and not a major destination for someone who has no or limited experience with the country.

Way too early to plan for this, but I might look at tickets for LA since I’ve never been out there and the stadium is awesome.

Fans of the participating nations are going to travel to whatever city their team is playing in. A German fan isn't going to choose an England-Chile game in New York over a Germany-Morocco game in Kansas City.

Unaffiliated international fans will be more likely to hit the better-known cities.

KC may get a huge demand from US fans since it's the only site in the entire Midwest.

I'm going to try to get tickets for a US game, but Plan B is to go to Kansas City because it's really the only driveable option.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Also, Gillette Stadium is 20 miles from Boston and actually closer to Providence.

More than a few aren't in their listed city. Levi's Stadium isn't even from SF than Gillette is from Boston. Sports fans have just learned to live with it, outside of the guy that sued over the NY Jets and Giants claiming New York in their name.

A big reason, of course, is that it would be extremely difficult to build new stadia in Boston or NYC proper. Although Robert Kraft, owner of the New England Patriots/Revolution.and Gillette Stadium is looking for a location to build a soccer stadium.

In any event, the teams playing at Gillette will probably fly in and out of TF Green/Rhode Island International instead of Logan.

Plenty of room to build a stadium in Boston as long as it used structured parking and relied more on attendees using transit vs driving to the stadium. The parking around Gillette takes up 4-5X more land than the stadium itself. I agree it's practically impossible in NYC.

Theoretically possible, but not going to happen anytime soon,mid at all. given the cost of land, inflation, competition, congestion,  broken public transit, and good old fashioned NIMBYism.  Kraft tried to build the Pats new stadium in South Boston, and failed.

[Ted$8roadFan]

Speaking of which... why can't you easily get to Gillette Stadium from Providence on the commuter rail? They might need a shuttle service from the Mansfield and/or Sharon station to Gillette Stadium if there isn't already one.

And don't triple post.

There is a station at Gillette Stadium. There is a train that goes from South Station to Gillette on game days. Not sure why there isn’t one from Providence, but the Providence line us one of the least reliable lines. 

[NWI_Irish96]

Speaking of which... why can't you easily get to Gillette Stadium from Providence on the commuter rail? They might need a shuttle service from the Mansfield and/or Sharon station to Gillette Stadium if there isn't already one.

And don't triple post.

There is a station at Gillette Stadium. There is a train that goes from South Station to Gillette on game days. Not sure why there isn’t one from Providence, but the Providence line us one of the least reliable lines. 

I would think that for the World Cup, there will be temporary mass transit of some sort set up to get fans between airports, major hotel centers, and stadiums. May have to be buses in some cities, but I expect something like this would happen.

[Scott5114]

The biggest problem with the FIFA World Cup in Dallas is that it's at Jerryworld. There are a couple of problems with the stadium:

• Hopefully, FIFA will insist on curtains to block that sun from those windows.
• Arlington has absolutely NO transit solutions whatsoever. Thus, getting to the game will also pose a challenge.

It's still a better venue than Levi's Bake and Burn Stadium in Santa Clara.

This is America. We don't take transit to stadiums.

FIFA is going to require it (in the form of chartered buses from fan zones). International visitors will need it.

I think DC got turned down because FIFA officials want to stay away from the Justice Department

Actual reason is because there's no suitable venue in the DMV and Baltimore's bid was weaker than Boston's.

the people who can afford to fly from abroad to the US and pay for tickets to a world cup match can afford to rent a car.

You do realize that lots of people from other countries don't know how to drive a car, right? It's not a required life skill there like it is here.

And don't triple post.

[Bruce]

Despite the sentiment expressed previously in this thread, the official bid book submitted to FIFA spends an awful lot of time on each venue's transit accessibility. And in the pre-selection bid analysis, FIFA criticized the U.S.'s lack of sufficient public transport capacity (p. 24). It's actually an important part of an international tournament of this scale.

Ranking the venues by their transit access:

Vancouver (BC Place) - A - SkyTrain access from the south and east, a short distance from Amtrak/VIA; one transfer from Seabus at Waterfront
Seattle (Lumen Field) - A - Link service every 4-10 minutes (including future Line 2) at two stations at each end of the stadium, plus Amtrak and Sounder right at the doorstep
SF Bay Area (Levi's Stadium) - B- - Decent VTA light rail service to San Jose and Mountain View to link with Caltrain, but still rather far from the BART network; Amtrak and ACE also serve the stadium
LA (SoFi Stadium) - C- - Requires a bus shuttle from the nearest Metro station, including the soon-to-be-opened LAX/Crenshaw Line. Inglewood has approved a people mover, but it won't open until 2027.
Kansas City (Arrowhead Stadium) - D- - Nearest bus routes stop a mile away and are hourly at best.
Dallas (AT&T Stadium) - F - Hard to do worse than a suburb with literally no transit, especially when the metro area has the longest light rail network in the country. Arlington is a failure of urban planning. There is a private "trolley" that runs on non-gamedays, so it's useless.
Houston (NRG Stadium) - C - Light rail is on the other side of the Astrodome and not all that frequent. A half-hourly bus runs closer to the stadium but requires a transfer to reach downtown or anywhere of note.
Guadalajara (Estadio Aktron) - C- - Nearly a mile of walking from the nearest bus stop, but that bus runs every 6 minutes.
Monterrey (Estadio BBVA) - B - A mile from the nearest Metro stop, but it runs every 5 minutes.
Mexico City (Estadio Azteca) - A - While not directly served by the extensive Metro system, it does have Xochimilco light rail service (every 4 minutes) that connects with Metro Line 2. Good enough for a stadium that is fairly far from the city center.
Toronto (BMO Field) - A - Streetcar runs right to the stadium every 5 minutes and GO has service next door.
Boston (Gillette Stadium) - C - Special commuter rail service from South Station and Back Bay would presumably be running, but it needs to be supplemented by special buses.
NY/NJ (MetLife Stadium) - B - Again, special commuter rail service needed. There are normal buses in the area that run infrequently.
Philadelphia (Lincoln Financial Field) - A - A half-mile walk from the end of the Broad Street Line, but it's every 8-12 minutes and even has special expresses for events.
Atlanta (Mercedes-Benz Stadium) - A - A pair of MARTA stations with frequent service. Not too far from downtown and the main transfer at Five Points, so it shouldn't be too hard for citywide connections.
Miami (Hard Rock Stadium) - C - Normal service is lacking, but Miami-Dade runs express buses for Dolphins games at 15-minute headways, so if repeated it'd be decent.

[kernals12]

Despite the sentiment expressed previously in this thread, the official bid book submitted to FIFA spends an awful lot of time on each venue's transit accessibility. And in the pre-selection bid analysis, FIFA criticized the U.S.'s lack of sufficient public transport capacity (p. 24). It's actually an important part of an international tournament of this scale.

Ranking the venues by their transit access:

Vancouver (BC Place) - A - SkyTrain access from the south and east, a short distance from Amtrak/VIA; one transfer from Seabus at Waterfront
Seattle (Lumen Field) - A - Link service every 4-10 minutes (including future Line 2) at two stations at each end of the stadium, plus Amtrak and Sounder right at the doorstep
SF Bay Area (Levi's Stadium) - B- - Decent VTA light rail service to San Jose and Mountain View to link with Caltrain, but still rather far from the BART network; Amtrak and ACE also serve the stadium
LA (SoFi Stadium) - C- - Requires a bus shuttle from the nearest Metro station, including the soon-to-be-opened LAX/Crenshaw Line. Inglewood has approved a people mover, but it won't open until 2027.
Kansas City (Arrowhead Stadium) - D- - Nearest bus routes stop a mile away and are hourly at best.
Dallas (AT&T Stadium) - F - Hard to do worse than a suburb with literally no transit, especially when the metro area has the longest light rail network in the country. Arlington is a failure of urban planning. There is a private "trolley" that runs on non-gamedays, so it's useless.
Houston (NRG Stadium) - D - A half-hourly bus that requires a transfer to reach downtown or anywhere of note.
Guadalajara (Estadio Aktron) - C- - Nearly a mile of walking from the nearest bus stop, but that bus runs every 6 minutes.
Monterrey (Estadio BBVA) - B - A mile from the nearest Metro stop, but it runs every 5 minutes.
Mexico City (Estadio Azteca) - A - While not directly served by the extensive Metro system, it does have Xochimilco light rail service (every 4 minutes) that connects with Metro Line 2. Good enough for a stadium that is fairly far from the city center.
Toronto (BMO Field) - A - Streetcar runs right to the stadium every 5 minutes and GO has service next door.
Boston (Gillette Stadium) - C - Special commuter rail service from South Station and Back Bay would presumably be running, but it needs to be supplemented by special buses.
NY/NJ (MetLife Stadium) - B - Again, special commuter rail service needed. There are normal buses in the area that run infrequently.
Philadelphia (Lincoln Financial Field) - A - A half-mile walk from the end of the Broad Street Line, but it's every 8-12 minutes and even has special expresses for events.
Atlanta (Mercedes-Benz Stadium) - A - A pair of MARTA stations with frequent service. Not too far from downtown and the main transfer at Five Points, so it shouldn't be too hard for citywide connections.
Miami (Hard Rock Stadium) - C - Normal service is lacking, but Miami-Dade runs express buses for Dolphins games at 15-minute headways, so if repeated it'd be decent.

Typical European snobbery

You do realize that lots of people from other countries don't know how to drive a car, right? It's not a required life skill there like it is here.

Lol Don't tell me you buy the "Europeans don't need cars" crap.

If The Netherlands winds up playing any matches in Houston or Dallas, their fans will find the local roads to be very similar to the ones they have at home

Although they may be frustrated by carpool restrictions.

[Bruce]

Typical European snobbery

Lol Don't tell me you buy the "Europeans don't need cars" crap.

If The Netherlands winds up playing any matches in Houston or Dallas, their fans will find the local roads to be very similar to the ones they have at home
[clipped]
Although they may be frustrated by carpool restrictions.

1. I'm not European. Just someone who wants a traffic-free way of getting to the damn game.

In fact, when I do attend sporting events in Seattle, I normally drive part way and switch to a train or rental bike to save on time.

2. Most Europeans aren't driving to their games, even in car-centric areas. There's plenty of better options that are faster, cheaper, and more convenient.

[kernals12]

Typical European snobbery

Lol Don't tell me you buy the "Europeans don't need cars" crap.

If The Netherlands winds up playing any matches in Houston or Dallas, their fans will find the local roads to be very similar to the ones they have at home
[clipped]
Although they may be frustrated by carpool restrictions.

1. I'm not European. Just someone who wants a traffic-free way of getting to the damn game.

In fact, when I do attend sporting events in Seattle, I normally drive part way and switch to a train or rental bike to save on time.

2. Most Europeans aren't driving to their games, even in car-centric areas. There's plenty of better options that are faster, cheaper, and more convenient.

1. Wide highways provide just that. And public transit will suffer "traffic" in that buses or trains will be at capacity and several might go by before you get one with an empty seat.

2. Scott5114 implied that being able to drive a car wasn't a vital life skill in Europe. That's definitely not true.

[Scott5114]

2. Scott5114 implied that being able to drive a car wasn't a vital life skill in Europe. That's definitely not true.

Prove it.

[kernals12]

Another thing: how many people drive alone to sporting events? I'd say most people carpool. That means that the throughput advantage of trains vs highways is reduced.

2. Scott5114 implied that being able to drive a car wasn't a vital life skill in Europe. That's definitely not true.

Prove it.

There are plenty of Europeans on this forum. Ask them.

[Scott5114]

2. Scott5114 implied that being able to drive a car wasn't a vital life skill in Europe. That's definitely not true.

Prove it.

There are plenty of Europeans on this forum. Ask them.

lazy

[kernals12]

2. Scott5114 implied that being able to drive a car wasn't a vital life skill in Europe. That's definitely not true.

Prove it.

There are plenty of Europeans on this forum. Ask them.

lazy

One of your mods

My point is that the Dutch have not in fact solved all their transportation problems with bike lanes, despite what many will have you believe.

I'm from the Netherlands and this is a point I often like to make. The Dutch cycling infrastructure is not just good, it's a whole separate class compared to any other country in the world. Yet, the modal split is almost 80% car. It's actually only a few percentage points lower than European countries that do not have any cycling culture. Dutch public transit usage is relatively low because cycling is often faster in cities. Cycling options are great, but overall it's less of a revolutionary change in transportation than many advocates make it out to be.

Most people seem to think that densification is required for cycling to work. But that is not the case. The Netherlands is largely not a densely built urban environment, but mostly a single-family residential environment. This allows for cycling infrastructure to be mostly separate from roads, including grade-separation. In the Netherlands, cycling is in fact better in suburban areas than in the city cores, where there is less space and more stops. This is also good for drivers: unlike other countries, cyclists don't have to share busy roads with cars.

The Netherlands lacks very large cities. By far most Dutch people live in cities with a population under 200,000. These cities are compact, but not particularly dense. This means that cycling distances are often doable. However commuting is often between cities. Which is where the motorways come into play. The Netherlands has the second-busiest motorway network in Europe (after the UK). The busiest road in the Netherlands is A4 at the Hague, it carries 280,000 vehicles per day. These are traffic volumes you also find in Los Angeles or Houston.

I also like to add that a tourist perspective of transportation is often very different from a daily routine like commuting, running errands, going to family or for recreation. Many tourists visit Amsterdam and are amazed that almost nobody seems to be driving a car. But they do not see the 8 - 10 - 12 lane motorways around Amsterdam.

[Scott5114]

I had no idea that all of Europe is the Netherlands.

[thspfc]

Netherlands vs USA is the most unlikely rivalry there is. People scream at each other over Dutch urban development vs American urban development. There’s a YouTube channel with nearly 700k subscribers dedicated solely to explaining why the Netherlands is better than the USA at urban planning.

The countries aren’t comparable. One is tiny and the other is huge, one has mild summers and mild winters while the other is all over the place, one was built long before the other.

[kernals12]

I had no idea that all of Europe is the Netherlands.

I think you know that Holland has gone further than just about any other country to try and make it possible to live without a car.

Netherlands vs USA is the most unlikely rivalry there is. People scream at each other over Dutch urban development vs American urban development. There’s a YouTube channel with nearly 700k subscribers dedicated solely to explaining why the Netherlands is better than the USA at urban planning.

The countries aren’t comparable. One is tiny and the other is huge, one has mild summers and mild winters while the other is all over the place, one was built long before the other.

That youtube channel is run by a Canadian and it shows.

Holland has one of the fastest growing passenger car fleets in Western Europe, they just passed the milestone of 1 car for every 2 people. Until 2005, highways with 6 lanes were a rarity, now 8 lanes is common and 10-12 lanes are present and they're even planning 14 lanes on the A27 near Utrecht. And if you look at the way they plan their cities, you see a lot of similarities to American ones with clear hierarchies of arterial, collector, and access roads.

[1995hoo]

Regardless of the guy saying nobody in this country takes mass transit to games, we are in fact taking mass transit to a sports venue today (Nationals Park). Given that the parking garages cost something like $40, the old super-cheap 12-hour parking meters where I used to park are gone (removed when the new soccer stadium was built), and subway fare is a flat $2 each way on the weekend, I can’t see why we would even consider driving (aside from driving to the subway station, that is).

[Removed personal attack. -S.]

[mgk920]

Thw CTA's Red Line is a common way for fans to get to and from Wrigley Field in Chicago, too.

Mike