BASE-BALL

[Henry]

The 2020 MLB season is pretty much dead, thanks to this latest bit of bad news:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mlbpa-mlbs-demand-for-additional-concessions-was-resoundingly-rejected/ar-BB153z6r?ocid=msedgntp

[TravelingBethelite]

The 2020 MLB season is pretty much dead, thanks to this latest bit of bad news:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mlbpa-mlbs-demand-for-additional-concessions-was-resoundingly-rejected/ar-BB153z6r?ocid=msedgntp

If it had taken this long to negotiate, the season was doomed from the start. Even before the negotiations began, I thought it wasn't worth the effort and that they should just call it a wash.

[tchafe1978]

The players union and the owners still haven't learned their lesson from 1994, I see. Neither side is willing to compromise.

[Max Rockatansky]

The players union and the owners still haven't learned their lesson from 1994, I see. Neither side is willing to compromise.

Neither seems to get that they'll be the odd man out and really piss off a lot of the sports viewing public.  While I understand not wanting to be short changed on pay I also find the argument that baseball players are in greater danger than players in other leagues to be total BS.  Hockey, Soccer, and Basketball has far more close physical contact than Baseball does.

I hate to make this comparison but there are a ton of people in the general public working for a lot less than a prorated professional sports salary than face way more exposure.  It seems like weak sauce that the parties can't come together to at least get SOME season going when everyone else in the sports world is doing that.

[SEWIGuy]

Probably because NBA owners are paying most of the salaries.  They withheld 25% in May and June, but it is slated to go back up later in the year once the playoffs get rolling.  I believe the NHL players were not paid their final paycheck but the NHL will do so provided they move forward with playoffs.

But in baseball, the owners want to play less games and pay the players for less than the prorated games they play.

IMO, this is all about breaking the union.

[Max Rockatansky]

Probably because NBA owners are paying most of the salaries.  They withheld 25% in May and June, but it is slated to go back up later in the year once the playoffs get rolling.  I believe the NHL players were not paid their final paycheck but the NHL will do so provided they move forward with playoffs.

But in baseball, the owners want to play less games and pay the players for less than the prorated games they play.

IMO, this is all about breaking the union.

Either way, it is a absolute horrible look for Baseball in general regardless of what either party wants.  Nobody will come out the back side of no season cleanly and the sport will probably only lose more ground to it's competitors.  People might not really remember but 1994 post-strike MLB is just a shadow of what it once was.

[triplemultiplex]

I remember.
That strike totally disillusioned me.  My baseball fandom crashed and took a decade to recover.  I may have only been a kid, but I was hurt by it.
I didn't really come back to baseball until I moved to Milwaukee as a drinking-age adult.  It helped that the Brewers had a long overdue resurgence in the late 00's, but cancelling the World Series turned me off of the sport for a long time.  Many of my peers did not come back, as indicated by the data.

It sucks, too because baseball was riding high in the early 90's.  Star Trek even speculated that there would be a dominate MLB team in London in the early 21st Century.  But the strike torpedoed it all.  Suddenly, baseball wasn't as cool.  I watched it crash among my peers and myself.  If they're not going to play this year at all because of more bullcrap about money (instead of the virus) then they will see yet another slump in interest among young people like I saw in the 90's.  And they never fully recovered from the aftermath of 30 years ago, in my assessment.

This was a baseball country up until 1994.  The strike seeded the mantle of "America's Sport" to football.  I don't know what the data says about that, but my assessment is what it felt like as a kid in the 90's.  The last gasp to me is when TBS stopped airing Braves games.  I wasn't a fan of them (in fact I inherited resentment from my father because they left Milwaukee) but at least I could spend a lazy summer afternoon watching baseball on basic cable in the era before every team got their own network.  We can bemoan the exclusive broadcast deals, but the fact was, interest had waned and there were not the ratings for TBS or WGN to air baseball compared to reruns of Friends or whatever.

So with that perspective, I see MLB diligently sawing off its nose to spite its face and the consequences will be another decade-long dip in public interest.  No wussy DH changes are going to fix that.

[SEWIGuy]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

[Max Rockatansky]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

To that end, I'm curious as to how close it is to losing ground to the NBA in viewership and revenue per game?   It certainly feels like in the circles I'm in that baseball is still the more important sport out west but I can't imagine that sentiment is the same the further East one goes. 

[mgk920]

Also to fútbol - I have been seeing an amazing surge of interest in European and Mexican football over at least the past decade or so, with the ease of on-line access to the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc and their games being readily available on various TV feeds in North America.  And by the nature of these federations with their team promotion and relegation, there are no dangers of labor-related season stoppages, teams packing up and moving to different markets, etc.

The game itself is very accessible to the younger crowd, especially, in that the playing rules are so dirt simple, everyone on the field has multitudes of opportunities to meaningfully handle the ball, the constant physical activity is a great way to blow off steam and they have the great latitude to be able to develop their own distinct playing styles and a deep, lifelong love of the game.

The Baseball Gods must be on guard for this.   

Mike

[Roadgeekteen]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

To that end, I'm curious as to how close it is to losing ground to the NBA in viewership and revenue per game?   It certainly feels like in the circles I'm in that baseball is still the more important sport out west but I can't imagine that sentiment is the same the further East one goes.

I here so much more about the NBA and it's players than the MLB and it's not even close. In the media at least, NBA seems to rival NFL.

[74/171FAN]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

To that end, I'm curious as to how close it is to losing ground to the NBA in viewership and revenue per game?   It certainly feels like in the circles I'm in that baseball is still the more important sport out west but I can't imagine that sentiment is the same the further East one goes.

I here so much more about the NBA and it's players than the MLB and it's not even close. In the media at least, NBA seems to rival NFL.

That is because ESPN has decided to cover the NBA more than MLB. Outside of Sunday Night Baseball, MLB does not matter much to ESPN these days.

[webny99]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

I'm not really a huge sports follower but it seems like the NBA has been on a upward trajectory, it certainly hasn't always been more popular than MLB, even going back 15-20 years it probably wasn't.

[Roadgeekteen]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

To that end, I'm curious as to how close it is to losing ground to the NBA in viewership and revenue per game?   It certainly feels like in the circles I'm in that baseball is still the more important sport out west but I can't imagine that sentiment is the same the further East one goes.

I here so much more about the NBA and it's players than the MLB and it's not even close. In the media at least, NBA seems to rival NFL.

That is because ESPN has decided to cover the NBA more than MLB. Outside of Sunday Night Baseball, MLB does not matter much to ESPN these days.

Also MLB players are just so much less famous than NBA players, everyone knows Lebron, not everyone knows Mike Trout.

[SEWIGuy]

The NBA has the youngest viewership of the major sports by a bunch. MLB has the oldest. Not surprising to see why the differences on how it's covered.

[Stephane Dumas]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

I don't disagree, to me the MLS is minor league soccer.  But that doesn't change the fact that the MLS does have a pretty big following in some markets.  Orlando City had a massive following when I lived in the city as an example. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

I don't disagree, to me the MLS is minor league soccer.  But that doesn't change the fact that the MLS does have a pretty big following in some markets.  Orlando City had a massive following when I lived in the city as an example.

I feel like a lot of the newer MLS teams have a bigger following, but nobody cares about the MLS up here in New England.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

I don't disagree, to me the MLS is minor league soccer.  But that doesn't change the fact that the MLS does have a pretty big following in some markets.  Orlando City had a massive following when I lived in the city as an example.

I feel like a lot of the newer MLS teams have a bigger following, but nobody cares about the MLS up here in New England.

Yes, the counter to that is that nobody cares about hockey outside the Midwest and Northeast (aside Seattle maybe).   

[Roadgeekteen]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

I don't disagree, to me the MLS is minor league soccer.  But that doesn't change the fact that the MLS does have a pretty big following in some markets.  Orlando City had a massive following when I lived in the city as an example.

I feel like a lot of the newer MLS teams have a bigger following, but nobody cares about the MLS up here in New England.

Yes, the counter to that is that nobody cares about hockey outside the Midwest and Northeast (aside Seattle maybe).

I think that the Tampa Bay Lightning and the Nashville Predators have a decent following.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah, it sure seems like NFL>NBA>MLB>NHL.

How long before it became NFL>NBA>NHL>MLB? And where we put MLS in this?

I still have a grudge against Donald Fehr for his idea to strike in 1994, the years where the Expos had a chance to go far, what a coincidence. 

As much as I love hockey it will never surpass baseball in the American sports scene.  The only reason I probably even got into hockey was simply due to the fact that it was mainstream in Detroit and Canada.  Hockey definitely isn't mainstream like baseball is out west and in the south.  I would say soccer is starting to catch hockey on the national level in terms of popularity.

I'd put NHL above MLS simply because the NHL in the premier hockey league in the world.

I don't disagree, to me the MLS is minor league soccer.  But that doesn't change the fact that the MLS does have a pretty big following in some markets.  Orlando City had a massive following when I lived in the city as an example.

I feel like a lot of the newer MLS teams have a bigger following, but nobody cares about the MLS up here in New England.

Yes, the counter to that is that nobody cares about hockey outside the Midwest and Northeast (aside Seattle maybe).

I think that the Tampa Bay Lightning and the Nashville Predators have a decent following.

Sometimes with the Lightning, I've always found getting a ticket even when they are good to be extremely easy.  I've never been a Predators game in Nashville. 

[Duke87]

Baseball had long been the second sport in the United States behind football prior to the mid 90s.  There were a lot of people worried about the television ratings and attendance long before the strike.  I would say that the NFL became a more dominant force sometime in the late 70s or early 80s.

Nnn so... according to Gallup, football surpassed baseball the favorite sport of the largest number of Americans as early as the 1960s. But this just compares the sports themselves.

It's important to realize that while with baseball the general public's fandom is all about MLB, with football the College version of it is just as popular as the professional version currently. And while college football and the NFL have been existing on roughly equal terms so far in the 21st century (per Gallup data in the link above), historically this was not the case. The popularity of the NFL grew considerably over the course of the 1990s, at the beginning of the decade college football was decidedly more popular than the professional version.

This makes sense too because of accessibility. Pro sports teams tend to be located in the country's largest cities in order to maximize their viewership market, but this leaves large swaths of America fairly far from the nearest major league team. College teams are able to fill this niche by being located where the school is, rather than where the big city is.

[amroad17]

The players union and the owners still haven't learned their lesson from 1994, I see. Neither side is willing to compromise.

Neither seems to get that they'll be the odd man out and really piss off a lot of the sports viewing public.  While I understand not wanting to be short changed on pay I also find the argument that baseball players are in greater danger than players in other leagues to be total BS.  Hockey, Soccer, and Basketball has far more close physical contact than Baseball does.

I hate to make this comparison but there are a ton of people in the general public working for a lot less than a prorated professional sports salary than face way more exposure.  It seems like weak sauce that the parties can't come together to at least get SOME season going when everyone else in the sports world is doing that.

ESPN has been telecasting Korean Baseball for nearly three weeks (Karl Ravech and Eduardo Perez doing play-by-play and analyst from their homes or separate ESPN offices for all I know).  No fans at the games and there are cheerleaders with masks on top of the dugouts.  I haven't heard of any player contracting COVID-19 yet.

If they do the same things that NASCAR is doing (temperature checks, masks, social distancing, sanitizing) with each team, MLB should not have a problem.  Besides, if all protocol is followed and a player still contracts COVID-19, then they more than likely contracted it outside the ballpark.