When I lived in NJ, despite sidewalk and ROW away from road belonging to the municipality, the property owner behind the ROW is responsible for repairs to the sidewalk and not the city, town, etc.
Why is that? Why should the property owner adjacent to the sidewalk be liable and responsible for municipal property?
Quote from: roadman65 on January 15, 2022, 11:11:39 AM
When I lived in NJ, despite sidewalk and ROW away from road belonging to the municipality, the property owner behind the ROW is responsible for repairs to the sidewalk and not the city, town, etc.
Why is that? Why should the property owner adjacent to the sidewalk be liable and responsible for municipal property?
Because, simply, the laws allow it to be that way. Courts have ruled that way as well. Technically speaking, from the street or curb line and in is homeowner maintenance, which includes the strip between the road and sidewalk.
We have to maintain our own sidewalks. The city tried to pass a tax a few years ago but it got rejected by the voters. They survey your neighborhood every 7-8 years or so, and mark sidewalk squares that need replacement. If you don't hire your own contractor to do it, the city has a low-bid contractor that will do it. We hired our own. Some of the squares that were put in by the city contractor in 2012 are already spalling and cracking. No thank you.
Not only sidewalks, but 10 or 12 years ago our residential street had to be completely replaced. When they originally paved it, maybe 50 years ago, they simply laid the asphalt on the existing gravel road instead of putting in a new sub base. We tried to fight the city on it - when you buy a house you hire someone to inspect it, but you can't have someone dig into the road to see if it was built properly - but the city commission didn't accept our arguments. We're still paying for it as a special assessment. The kicker is that maybe 5 years ago the city voted for a street tax - so we're paying that too.
In the northern climates, you have to clear them from snow and ice, or the municipality will do it and charge you a high fee.
I've never heard of any town/city in Massachusetts make residents responsible for upkeep of a sidewalk beyond the places that at least make you shovel it. I've seen a couple sealcoat a paved sidewalk on their property while having the driveway done, but that is the extent of that.
I am fairly close to neighboring Billerica, and there is a neighborhood built in the late 60's with sidewalks. They were so poorly maintained that mother nature has reclaimed significant portions of it, along with the intelligent idea of planting trees right next to them and thinking that decision would come with no consequences.
I guess this is why lots of areas in US cities are terrible (and sometimes downright hostile) for walkability: easier to have no sidewalk than to have one and the house owner getting the blame for it if someone slips on ice on the sidewalk that happens to be on their property. Wish sidewalks are maintained by the municipality, like roads, but nope...
In my city (and I think province wide), the City inspects sidewalks every few years and pays/carries out the repairs themselves. It's common for the City to hire students to do the inspections, Snow shovelling is typically the homeowners' responsibility.
In 2020, Kitchener switched to annual inspections:
https://outline.com/LSwBad (https://outline.com/LSwBad)
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 15, 2022, 01:04:59 PM
I guess this is why lots of areas in US cities are terrible (and sometimes downright hostile) for walkability: easier to have no sidewalk than to have one and the house owner getting the blame for it if someone slips on ice on the sidewalk that happens to be on their property. Wish sidewalks are maintained by the municipality, like roads, but nope...
Yep, just another example of the government catering to motorists over other forms of transportation.
I believe our sidewalks are maintained by the city. Someone came by a few years ago and ground off the edges of a few slabs where they were out of alignment to make them level again. I didn't call anyone or pay anyone to do that, so I presume the City of Norman did it of its own volition.
That said, I believe that initial construction of sidewalks is to be done by the property owner when the property is initially improved. There are a few lots in subdivisions that for whatever reason never had houses built on them. The sidewalk stops at the boundary of those lots and starts up again on the other side of them. That really blows when it's been rainy and you have to walk through mud or walk in the street. I can't imagine people in wheelchairs or that use walkers find it easy to deal with, either.
While not really sidewalk-related, a really annoying situation came up in the last rental house I lived in. That house had a street behind it rather than another property. So behind my back fence was a sidewalk and a 7-foot grass strip, then the street. I had no idea I was responsible for its maintenance, since it wasn't really accessible from the rest of my property, until the city sent me a nastygram complaining that the grass was too high. So I had to push my lawnmower all the way around the block to mow this stupid 7-foot grass strip. If I had owned that property, I probably would have seen if I could tear the grass out and install pavers or something like that.
Our sidewalks are owned, and repaired, by the HOA, but clearing them after a snowstorm is the individual homeowner's responsibility. There's no penalty for not doing so. You're not "required" to clear your sidewalk. But you wind up looking like an asshole if you don't get to it within 48 hours or so because everyone else will get around to dealing with theirs.
Some nearby jurisdictions have laws requiring people to clear sidewalks within a certain amount of time (the District of Columbia does; I think Montgomery County, Maryland, does as well). I have no idea whether, or how often, those laws are enforced.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 15, 2022, 11:11:39 AM
When I lived in NJ, despite sidewalk and ROW away from road belonging to the municipality, the property owner behind the ROW is responsible for repairs to the sidewalk and not the city, town, etc.
I was surprised to find out that the city of Raleigh, North Carolina actually forced residents to pay for the construction of sidewalk in front of their homes, even when they didn't want one. I'm pretty sure that Raleigh still requires homeowners to pay for sidewalk repairs as well (the last evidence I could find was more than 10 years ago).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 15, 2022, 10:52:41 PM
I was surprised to find out that the city of Raleigh, North Carolina actually forced residents to pay for the construction of sidewalk in front of their homes, even when they didn't want one.
It would be pretty silly if sidewalks ended any time they crossed onto the property of someone who didn't want to pay for a sidewalk. Especially since there are so many property owners who never bother to actually get out of their house and walk around and thus don't appreciate the utility of a sidewalk. Sidewalks should be a continuous way, like a road.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 15, 2022, 11:25:13 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 15, 2022, 10:52:41 PM
I was surprised to find out that the city of Raleigh, North Carolina actually forced residents to pay for the construction of sidewalk in front of their homes, even when they didn't want one.
It would be pretty silly if sidewalks ended any time they crossed onto the property of someone who didn't want to pay for a sidewalk. Especially since there are so many property owners who never bother to actually get out of their house and walk around and thus don't appreciate the utility of a sidewalk. Sidewalks should be a continuous way, like a road.
This can happen when there's older houses without sidewalks. When a vacant property is built upon, newer standards require a sidewalk. They can apply for a variance if it doesn't make sense to have a sidewalk between houses without one. In NJ, the municipality usually can't make a property owner add a sidewalk on their own will, since their requirements were grandfathered in.
Quote from: Big John on January 15, 2022, 01:00:23 PM
In the northern climates, you have to clear them from snow and ice, or the municipality will do it and charge you a high fee.
That's typically a town-by-town decision. I've heard of the threat of a fine, bit I haven't heard of a town actually doing the shoveling. I don't think I've ever seen anyone in my town ever say they've been fined anyway.
Seattle is another place where sidewalk maintenance is the responsibility of the property owner. However, there's apparently no real way for the city to force property owners to fix sidewalks, and the city has very little budget to fix them themself... so what really happens is that sidewalks pretty much never get repaired apart from cheap short-term fixes. It's actually become a political issue (https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/dont-walk-away-from-fixing-seattles-sidewalks/), yet there's still no real movement. (Same goes for snow removal (https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/01/03/seattle-needs-a-truly-multimodal-snow-clearance-plan/), not that that's a frequent issue around here.)
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 15, 2022, 10:52:41 PM
I was surprised to find out that the city of Raleigh, North Carolina actually forced residents to pay for the construction of sidewalk in front of their homes, even when they didn't want one.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 15, 2022, 11:25:13 PM
It would be pretty silly if sidewalks ended any time they crossed onto the property of someone who didn't want to pay for a sidewalk. Especially since there are so many property owners who never bother to actually get out of their house and walk around and thus don't appreciate the utility of a sidewalk. Sidewalks should be a continuous way, like a road.
Sorry, I can see where that's not clear. "They didn't want one" meant everybody in the nerighborhood. When those neighborhoods were developed in the mid-1950s, they were in the middle of farmland but still within the city limits. The homes were built in several suburban subdivisions without sidewalks, but in a city street grid pattern. By the late-1950s and early-1960s, the city mandated that sidewalks be added on (at a time when most of the homeowners were financially strapped). Literally nobody wanted the sidewalks. Only a handful of those streets ended up with the sidewalks. But due to political squabbling, the sidewalks ended up on the less-influential side of each street and only those landowners paid toward the construction. I didn't take an exact count, but there are slightly more than 100 homes in the affected area.
All that being said, today those sidewalks are well-utilized, as they lead to/from the local schools and churches, and also interconnect to the local college as well. They also connect two poorer neighborhoods together, which seems to enhance the charm of the neighborhood as the appeal of "Inside the Beltline" is catching with the hipster generation moving into Raleigh.
Thus the essential paradox of infrastructure–everyone wants to use it but nobody wants to pay for it.
Sidewalk maintenance is a tax on property essentially, which in some areas at one time made sense. Similar taxes on road footage were used to construct roads as well (which made wide parcels more tax heavy).
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 27, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
Clearly he intends for streets to be shut down and given over to their rightful users: pedestrians, strollers, people on wheels, and cyclists. :bigass:
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 27, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
In their yard, or at a park somewhere else.
Quote from: Bruce on January 27, 2022, 02:37:24 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 27, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
Clearly he intends for streets to be shut down and given over to their rightful users: pedestrians, strollers, people on wheels, and cyclists. :bigass:
No, as that would still result in foot traffic by the house. People on wheels are fine though, as long as there are 4 of them and an engine is involved.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 03:08:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 27, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
In their yard, or at a park somewhere else.
So people cant walk places in your world?
I don't want people walking in my yard tearing up the grass. I want them on the sidewalk.
Also, if foot traffic by your property actually seems like a problem to you, you're a fool. My house is on a fairly busy pedestrian corridor (smack dab between two schools so I get a lot of school-age kids walking by, as well as college students) and the biggest problem it has caused is sometimes I have to wait for someone to clear the driveway before I can pull in/out of my garage.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 04:58:45 PM
I don't want people walking in my yard tearing up the grass. I want them on the sidewalk.
Also, if foot traffic by your property actually seems like a problem to you, you're a fool. My house is on a fairly busy pedestrian corridor (smack dab between two schools so I get a lot of school-age kids walking by, as well as college students) and the biggest problem it has caused is sometimes I have to wait for someone to clear the driveway before I can pull in/out of my garage.
I have never had issues with people getting on the grass, the barbed wire fence keeps them out of there.
But I don't like any place that is conducive to pedestrian traffic, you get people selling stuff, evangelists, pollsters, etc. coming to your door. I think the absence of any sidewalks tends to discourage them.
So they have to walk in the street, since there's no gap between the travel lane and the fence. This is a safety hazard.
Barbed wire? Your property sounds ugly as shit.
Nobody has ever sold stuff or evangelized on my sidewalk. If they come to the door to do it, I have a NO SOLICITING BEWARE OF DOG sticker on the door in bright red Series D. And if anyone knocks anyway–always been political campaigns so far–I tell them I'm going to vote for their opponent because their candidate clearly doesn't see following the rules as much of a priority. (Or I just don't answer the door at all.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:14:38 PM
Barbed wire? Your property sounds ugly as shit.
Nobody has ever sold stuff or evangelized on my sidewalk. If they come to the door to do it, I have a NO SOLICITING BEWARE OF DOG sticker on the door. And if anyone knocks anyway–always been political campaigns so far–I tell them I'm going to vote for their opponent because their candidate clearly doesn't see following the rules as much of a priority. (Or I just don't answer the door at all.)
I love the look of barbed wire actually, it has a nice country feel that blends right in with the surroundings. Keeps people, dogs, horses and the like out too.
You sound like someone who would oppose a highway upgrade because it would ruin the "rural character" of the road.
Walking? Not in my back yard! (Or front yard in this case.)
America is a great place: trolls no longer have to live under bridges.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:14:38 PM
Barbed wire? Your property sounds ugly as shit.
...
His profile says "Philadelphia," so isn't that more or less a given?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 27, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 03:08:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 27, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
....
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
So where are people supposed to walk?
In their yard, or at a park somewhere else.
So people cant walk places in your world?
America treats everyone not in a car as a second-rate person already (as it can be seen by sidewalks ending abruptly in many places). He takes it even more extreme.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:44:33 PM
You sound like someone who would oppose a highway upgrade because it would ruin the "rural character" of the road.
Walking? Not in my back yard! (Or front yard in this case.)
No, I love highways and road improvements. :spin:
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 05:16:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:14:38 PM
Barbed wire? Your property sounds ugly as shit.
Nobody has ever sold stuff or evangelized on my sidewalk. If they come to the door to do it, I have a NO SOLICITING BEWARE OF DOG sticker on the door. And if anyone knocks anyway–always been political campaigns so far–I tell them I'm going to vote for their opponent because their candidate clearly doesn't see following the rules as much of a priority. (Or I just don't answer the door at all.)
I love the look of barbed wire actually, it has a nice country feel that blends right in with the surroundings. Keeps people, dogs, horses and the like out too.
Figured it out. He lives in a prison. No sidewalks are needed because he gets paid 57 cents an hour to mow the grass. More grass = more mowing = more money for prison extras. He loves highways and road improvements because the nickel rides in the paddy wagon get rough going over the potholes.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 15, 2022, 06:33:05 PM
clearing them after a snowstorm is the individual homeowner's responsibility. There's no penalty for not doing so. You're not "required" to clear your sidewalk.
The penalty might arrive in the form of an extremely expensive "slip and fall" lawsuit against you that you would most certainly lose.
Quote from: jamess on January 28, 2022, 12:35:28 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 15, 2022, 06:33:05 PM
clearing them after a snowstorm is the individual homeowner's responsibility. There's no penalty for not doing so. You're not "required" to clear your sidewalk.
The penalty might arrive in the form of an extremely expensive "slip and fall" lawsuit against you that you would most certainly lose.
We have 24 hours to clear sidewalks or the city does it for you and they levy a fine.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 28, 2022, 05:23:59 AM
Quote from: jamess on January 28, 2022, 12:35:28 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 15, 2022, 06:33:05 PM
clearing them after a snowstorm is the individual homeowner's responsibility. There's no penalty for not doing so. You're not "required" to clear your sidewalk.
The penalty might arrive in the form of an extremely expensive "slip and fall" lawsuit against you that you would most certainly lose.
We have 24 hours to clear sidewalks or the city does it for you and they levy a fine.
Right. Sidewalk responsibilities differ by jurisdiction.
In my town, sidewalk maintenance is the property owner's responsibility. This matter is not without controversy, as many question why sidewalks, owned by the city shouldn't be taken care of by the city.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 28, 2022, 07:18:22 AM
In my town, sidewalk maintenance is the property owner's responsibility. This matter is not without controversy, as many question why sidewalks, owned by the city shouldn't be taken care of by the city.
Because you agreed to the easement on which the sidewalk sits, and the laws that govern their maintenance, when you bought your property.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 28, 2022, 07:38:56 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 28, 2022, 07:18:22 AM
In my town, sidewalk maintenance is the property owner's responsibility. This matter is not without controversy, as many question why sidewalks, owned by the city shouldn't be taken care of by the city.
Because you agreed to the easement on which the sidewalk sits, and the laws that govern their maintenance, when you bought your property.
True enough, but that's a finer point not appreciated by many of today's homeowners.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:44:33 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 05:16:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 27, 2022, 05:14:38 PM
Barbed wire? Your property sounds ugly as shit.
Nobody has ever sold stuff or evangelized on my sidewalk. If they come to the door to do it, I have a NO SOLICITING BEWARE OF DOG sticker on the door. And if anyone knocks anyway–always been political campaigns so far–I tell them I'm going to vote for their opponent because their candidate clearly doesn't see following the rules as much of a priority. (Or I just don't answer the door at all.)
I love the look of barbed wire actually, it has a nice country feel that blends right in with the surroundings. Keeps people, dogs, horses and the like out too.
You sound like someone who would oppose a highway upgrade because it would ruin the "rural character" of the road.
Walking? Not in my back yard! (Or front yard in this case.)
Where is FritzOwl when we need him?
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 28, 2022, 09:38:26 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 28, 2022, 07:38:56 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 28, 2022, 07:18:22 AM
In my town, sidewalk maintenance is the property owner's responsibility. This matter is not without controversy, as many question why sidewalks, owned by the city shouldn't be taken care of by the city.
Because you agreed to the easement on which the sidewalk sits, and the laws that govern their maintenance, when you bought your property.
True enough, but that's a finer point not appreciated by many of today's homeowners.
In case of our local laws, property line is further back from the street, and sidewalk is on public land.
In an homage to those insurance ads about becoming your parents, I have an oddly outsized desire to shovel the front sidewalk in winter. I have a long-standing appreciation for shoveling snow in winter. I find it immensely satisfying. I have long been the one who took charge of this task even as a young teenager at home. In fact, I'd be disappointed if I could not get the front sidewalk shoveled before we had to go to school. I have and still do delay breakfast to get the sidewalk shoveled.
The reason is simple. If I don't get to it right away, someone is going to trample the snow and squish it down which makes it harder to scrape off. I learned very early the the absolute best asset for clearing a sidewalk is sublimation. This is the the process by which a solid transforms directly to a gas. In winter, this means snow does not need to necessarily melt to clear from a paved surface. Absent some type of icing situation, it means for snow shoveling that you can clear untrammeled snow and expect that the sidewalk will become completely clear in a matter of hours regardless of temperature or sunlight. The dry air of winter is such that the thin veneer of snow remaining after shoveling will sublimate direct into water vapor within a few hours of shoveling your sidewalk. At the very least, there is a full traction surface available to pedestrians without the the addition of any salts or other de-icing agents; a huge bonus to the environment. I like to call it "Artisan Snow Clearing" :-D
Furthermore, I will add that shoveling snow is an amazing work out. You move all kinds of core and arm muscles. The cold ensures you'll never overheat. And when you're done, the sense of accomplishment is fantastic. Working out in the cosmopolitan sense is lame because there's nothing to show for your weight lifting or treadmill mileage. But shovel a driveway and you can lord over your domination of nature or whatever and physically gaze upon the micro empire you have conquered from Old Man Winter.
I enjoy it so much that I shovel for two of my neighbors at present and basically ask no recompense from them. Telecommuting makes it even more rewarding because I can get to it before anyone drives through the furrow from the snow plow. The worst thing for shoveling is if some car has driven over the snow; that's ten times worse than walking over an unshoveled sidewalk.
All this to say if you don't have a snowblower, you'd love to have me as a neighbor in winter. Which is interesting because I've found that many people who do have snowblowers like to putter around with them and happily clear their neighbor's sidewalk out of courtesy, but secretly they just like chugging along with their little machine. I guess I have the same mentality but it's rooted in doing the same task physically rather than mechanically.
I hate snow but I also have a compulsion to shovel it on my property. This was true even when I rented. A 12" snowstorm hit St Louis not long after I moved there in the late 80's. I shoveled off the front steps and the sidewalk in front of my place even though I was renting in a three-floor walk-up. I don't mind shoveling snow as much as I hate living and driving in snow and ice, hence my retirement to the desert.
I'm quite sure sidewalks here in my city are owned and maintained by the city. For some reason on some Regional Roads, the sidewalk alongside is still the City's jurisdiction rather than the Region.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Wait until you hear about the barbed wire.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Curtains and shutters work well for keeping people from seeing in.
However, horses tend to lean on plastic fences and cause the fence to in turn lean, which is why ranches don't use plastic fences to keep the horses/cattle in.
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 13, 2022, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Curtains and shutters work well for keeping people from seeing in.
However, horses tend to lean on plastic fences and cause the fence to in turn lean, which is why ranches don't use plastic fences to keep the horses/cattle in.
Missing the point.
In fixating on the fact that sidewalks allow other people to walk near your house you have apparently missed that those same sidewalks would also allow
you to walk places.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 14, 2022, 01:25:32 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 13, 2022, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Curtains and shutters work well for keeping people from seeing in.
However, horses tend to lean on plastic fences and cause the fence to in turn lean, which is why ranches don't use plastic fences to keep the horses/cattle in.
Missing the point.
In fixating on the fact that sidewalks allow other people to walk near your house you have apparently missed that those same sidewalks would also allow you to walk places.
Allow me to predict his response:
I'm too mean and tough to go
walk anywhere, peasant! I'm just gonna drive my Ultimate Roadtrip Car™ anywhere I need to go! I think I'm a badass!
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 14, 2022, 01:40:42 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 14, 2022, 01:25:32 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 13, 2022, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Curtains and shutters work well for keeping people from seeing in.
However, horses tend to lean on plastic fences and cause the fence to in turn lean, which is why ranches don't use plastic fences to keep the horses/cattle in.
Missing the point.
In fixating on the fact that sidewalks allow other people to walk near your house you have apparently missed that those same sidewalks would also allow you to walk places.
Allow me to predict his response:
I'm too mean and tough to go walk anywhere, peasant! I'm just gonna drive my Ultimate Roadtrip Car™ anywhere I need to go! I think I'm a badass!
I don't usually favor walking anywhere from the house, no real purpose. I usually go to dedicated facilities for that.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 14, 2022, 01:25:32 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 13, 2022, 01:36:27 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 27, 2022, 01:35:37 PM
That said, in this day and age I don't see the need for sidewalks and prefer to not have them. Just one more thing to maintain and it encourages foot traffic by the house which I would rather not have.
This is the same energy as The Twits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twits), who insist on their house having no windows so people can't see in.
Curtains and shutters work well for keeping people from seeing in.
However, horses tend to lean on plastic fences and cause the fence to in turn lean, which is why ranches don't use plastic fences to keep the horses/cattle in.
Missing the point.
In fixating on the fact that sidewalks allow other people to walk near your house you have apparently missed that those same sidewalks would also allow you to walk places.
An interesting question - is there any other field where chunk of a shared facility is assigned to specific person as their responsibility?
I definitely never seen someone having to buy a chair and computer for someone in State DOT - it is done via distributed taxation.
Adopt-a-highway may be the closest example.
This differs a lot by municipality. I'm an engineer for a city in which property owners are responsible for all sidewalk AND curb. Two years prior to paving a street, we'll inspect all the curb and sidewalk along the street then send notices out to property owners. If they have to replace curb, that also means they have to pave the street that abuts the curb. $ :-o $
Unfortunately there's no way we could afford to maintain all curb and sidewalk. Paving costs enough as-is.
I'm glad I don't have to walk along or drive on streets that were built by Joe Sixpack some Saturday afternoon.
I gotta say, a system where the city bills individual property owners for the repairs and/or construction of public sidewalks on public right-of-way is stupid. You'd never, ever fund public streets this way, so what the Sam Hell do they think they are doing here? This is infrastructure that everyone can use and exists on municipal property. Sidewalks are always within the right of way of the city street (barring some HOA bullcrap). So WTF?
Much, much better to have a system where they have a sidewalk maintenance program that is folded into the regular property taxes for everyone in the community. It makes way, way more sense financially. This is a public asset that everyone should contribute to. This direct billing seems implicitly designed to discourage the public to support walking infrastructure and turn the community into a place where cars live and not people.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 18, 2022, 10:12:48 PM
I gotta say, a system where the city bills individual property owners for the repairs and/or construction of public sidewalks on public right-of-way is stupid. You'd never, ever fund public streets this way, so what the Sam Hell do they think they are doing here? This is infrastructure that everyone can use and exists on municipal property. Sidewalks are always within the right of way of the city street (barring some HOA bullcrap).
I agree that it's stupid, but it sounds like in the cities where this is normal, public sidewalks aren't on public right-of-way.
Green Bay used to charge the property owners for roadway resurfacings. This stopped a couple years ago when then enacted a wheel tax.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2022, 10:18:16 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 18, 2022, 10:12:48 PM
I gotta say, a system where the city bills individual property owners for the repairs and/or construction of public sidewalks on public right-of-way is stupid. You'd never, ever fund public streets this way, so what the Sam Hell do they think they are doing here? This is infrastructure that everyone can use and exists on municipal property. Sidewalks are always within the right of way of the city street (barring some HOA bullcrap).
I agree that it's stupid, but it sounds like in the cities where this is normal, public sidewalks aren't on public right-of-way.
No, the sidewalk are still within the ROW. The code is just worded in a way where property owners are responsible to perform maintenance on the curb and sidewalk. This has been the case in every municipality where I've worked.
Now don't get me started on commonly-owned alleys... Alleys that are on the grid system and connect to the rear of properties, but aren't within the ROW. All properties that abut the alley are equally responsible for its maintenance. As you can imagine, most are a crumbling mess.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 18, 2022, 10:12:48 PM
I gotta say, a system where the city bills individual property owners for the repairs and/or construction of public sidewalks on public right-of-way is stupid. You'd never, ever fund public streets this way,
Never, ever? Then why are we still paying a special assessment years after our street was repaved? A public street, not private.
The kicker is that the city then voted on a property tax to pay for street repairs. So now we're paying both the special assessment for our street and the tax for other streets.