Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits

[jakeroot]

Do you know, roughly, how many of those use permissive left turns? Random question, I know, but some places do have rules about not having them above certain speed limits.

On my last visit upstate, I seem to recall few intersections using protected only turns.

The NY 32 examples are protected-only. Most of the others have permissive-only or protected-permissive on at least one 55 approach. Several examples are on 2-lane roads, where you will generally not find protected-only signals in this state. We're not like New Hampshire, where all left turns must be protected.

That's cool. I don't understand New Hampshire's thinking with their left turns. Glad New York is a bit more sensible.

"Permissive light or Protected light in a 55 zone?  How about neither, and we're not even going to give you a left turn lane." - NJDOT.

NJ 72 at CR 539: https://goo.gl/maps/peVJcjDT1WpS2YWy8
NJ 70 at CR 2: https://goo.gl/maps/eFUmnHufUFuwCkD2A

That's the rural normal in NY. Not even worth giving examples because there are so many. You're lucky to get a turn lane.

So there's a ton of signals along 55mph+ roads without any turn lanes? That seems so odd to me. West coast practice is definitely for dedicated left turn lanes at all rural signals.

[cl94]

ROW is the concern on the east coast. NY puts in turn lanes where they can and volumes warrant, but it's not worth the cost of eminent domain in many cases. Take NY 23A at NY 32 in Greene County. All approaches are 55 MPH, but ROW barely extends beyond the shoulders. NY 33 at Crittenden Road in Erie County is another example. In this case, buildings are close to the road in 3 quadrants.

[sprjus4]

ROW is the concern on the east coast. NY puts in turn lanes where they can and volumes warrant, but it's not worth the cost of eminent domain in many cases. Take NY 23A at NY 32 in Greene County. All approaches are 55 MPH, but ROW barely extends beyond the shoulders. NY 33 at Crittenden Road in Erie County is another example. In this case, buildings are close to the road in 3 quadrants.

You could put them in for both of the examples you posted. They may shorter than usual turn lanes, but better than nothing. Narrowing the shoulder at the intersection can also add a few feet of pavement.

[webny99]

55 through a light in New York isn't notable. I can't think of a single place in the state that will lower the speed limit for a light unless there's a settlement around the light. Definitely several dozen cases, if not hundreds, in the state.

The OP seemed to think otherwise when he started this thread.

Let's see how many of these I can come up with, because I'm curious now...
...

It would not surprise me at all if NY state has over 100 lights in 55 mph zones.

Here's 5 off the bat from Monroe County: NY 31/NY 260; NY 104/Basket Rd; NY 250/NY 286; NY 250/Plank Rd; NY 441/Linden Ave.
NY 104 in Wayne County alone has another 15, that may be the most on a single road segment.
NY 332 in Ontario County has at least another 5.

[webny99]

So there's a ton of signals along 55mph+ roads without any turn lanes? That seems so odd to me. West coast practice is definitely for dedicated left turn lanes at all rural signals.

Speaking just for western NY (west of I-81), which may not be representative of the entire state, "a ton" is an exaggeration. Most have turn lanes, although probably only about half have a protected phase. With regards to signal phases, NY 104 is a good case study because it has so many.

-The first light at Basket Road is protected/permissive. That's the only light in Monroe County. I think the only reason permissive turns are allowed is because if they weren't, traffic would back up beyond the turn lane and into the freeway during the morning and afternoon rush, which would be unsafe.
-The next 6 lights, in Wayne County, are all protected only, which is somewhat uncommon, but makes sense for this stretch.
-The next 2 are protected/permissive, followed by 2 more protected only, bringing us to the end of the 4-lane segment.
-The next 6 are all permissive-only, with turn lanes, but no arrows.
-That's it until NY 3, another example of 55 mph and no turning lanes.

So, I guess to give a somewhat circular answer your original question, NY is nothing if not inconsistent in this regard, and they certainly don't believe in a one size fits all approach

[vdeane]

NY 590 over what is now Sea Breeze Drive was also an interesting case.  It was lowered to 50 in the years before conversion but was 55 before that.  Titus was protected-only, Seneca and Point Pleasant were permissive-only (no turn lanes), and Durand was an interesting case.

[hbelkins]

Fairly sure that the speed limit on Corridor H (US 48 and assorted other roads) remains 65 even through the traffic light in Buckhannon and the two near Elkins.

[webny99]

NY 590 over what is now Sea Breeze Drive was also an interesting case.  It was lowered to 50 in the years before conversion but was 55 before that.  Tibbits was protected-only, Seneca and Point Pleasant were permissive-only (no turn lanes), and Durand was an interesting case.

Interesting, I was too young to really remember much about that road before they put the roundabouts in.

(And LOL at what your auto-correct did to "Titus".  )

[vdeane]

NY 590 over what is now Sea Breeze Drive was also an interesting case.  It was lowered to 50 in the years before conversion but was 55 before that.  Tibbits was protected-only, Seneca and Point Pleasant were permissive-only (no turn lanes), and Durand was an interesting case.

Interesting, I was too young to really remember much about that road before they put the roundabouts in.

(And LOL at what your auto-correct did to "Titus".  )

Might not have been autocorrect.  NY 787 is similar to that stretch of NY 590 in some respects, and its first intersection actually is Tibbits.  Easy for my brain to confuse the two.

[webny99]

NY 590 over what is now Sea Breeze Drive was also an interesting case.  It was lowered to 50 in the years before conversion but was 55 before that.  Tibbits was protected-only, Seneca and Point Pleasant were permissive-only (no turn lanes), and Durand was an interesting case.

Interesting, I was too young to really remember much about that road before they put the roundabouts in.

(And LOL at what your auto-correct did to "Titus".)

Might not have been autocorrect.  NY 787 is similar to that stretch of NY 590 in some respects, and its first intersection actually is Tibbits.  Easy for my brain to confuse the two.

Sure enough, that makes sense. I never would have known, not being aware of any road called Tibbits, much less on a road so comparable to NY 590.       
It sounded just like something auto-correct might have randomly done.

[Kniwt]

A little late to this thread, but MT 85 south of Belgrade is a reasonably urban four/five-lane road with a 70mph limit (65mph trucks), and signals about every mile or so. And more than a little traffic (AADT 15,900).

[jakeroot]

A little late to this thread, but MT 85 south of Belgrade is a reasonably urban four/five-lane road with a 70mph limit (65mph trucks), and signals about every mile or so. And more than a little traffic (AADT 15,900).

With flashing yellow arrows to boot. Nice.

[Kniwt]

A little late to this thread, but MT 85 south of Belgrade is a reasonably urban four/five-lane road with a 70mph limit (65mph trucks), and signals about every mile or so. And more than a little traffic (AADT 15,900).

With flashing yellow arrows to boot. Nice.

And also, since I forgot to mention it earlier, not even any "Prepare To Stop When Flashing" indicators, either.

[michravera]

What roads have speed limits of 55 mph or higher, and yet still have traffic lights on them?
What is the highest posted speed limit in the US on a road with traffic lights?

A road segment must be signed for at least 50 mph and have at least three consecutive traffic lights to qualify. You have to start over if the speed limit drops, or it becomes a freeway.

NY 104, divided and signed 55 mph, has ten or so lights in the Town of Ontario.
NY 531 is also famous for 65 mph facing a signal (though it may drop to 55 briefly on the approach, and can't qualify anyway because only one light).

With 50MPH+, in California there would be a book full of them.

7th Standard Road in Kern County, California, is posted 55 and 65MPH and has traffic signals and even STOP signs.
I am fairly sure that most of the other of the E-W routes (named, numbered, and otherwise) between I-5 and CASR-99 are posted at 55 or higher and have signals and sometimes stop signs. CASR-132 in Stanislaus County is certainly one other them (although it is being upgrades so as to avoid some of them).

US-6 in western Nevada (between the California State Line and the concurrency with US-95) is posted for 70 MPH and is often ADVISED down to 55MPH before some stop signs at intersections with various NV SRs.

US-95 in western Nevada is generally posted for 70 MPH, but is posted down to something more pedestrian friendly inside most of the towns where most of the STOP signs and traffic signals are located. There may be some traffic controls on it outside of built up areas that do not drop the speed limit.

[webny99]

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone — and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd

[SkyPesos]

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone — and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd

And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That's even more rare with that speed limit.

Unrelated, but would it fit better if this thread gets moved to the traffic control section?

[Ned Weasel]

I hope this hasn't already been mentioned here (I did a quick scroll-through but didn't read every single post):

Has anyone else noticed how Oklahoma reduces the speed limit from 65 to 55 any time a 65-MPH road approaches a traffic signal?  It's one of the few things Oklahoma does consistently (unless there are roads I haven't seen where they don't do this).  Other states, like neighboring Kansas, don't have this practice as far as I know.  In Kansas, it's not very uncommon to see a traffic signal on a 65-MPH road, although you will likely see good warning signs.

[michravera]

CA 41 south of Fresno all the way to CA 198 has a ton of them.

7th Standard Rd has several. It is, except maybe at one or both ends, posted at at least 55 MPH and does have a couple stoplights on the part that is posted 65 MPH.

[zachary_amaryllis]

I hope this hasn't already been mentioned here (I did a quick scroll-through but didn't read every single post):

Has anyone else noticed how Oklahoma reduces the speed limit from 65 to 55 any time a 65-MPH road approaches a traffic signal?  It's one of the few things Oklahoma does consistently (unless there are roads I haven't seen where they don't do this).  Other states, like neighboring Kansas, don't have this practice as far as I know.  In Kansas, it's not very uncommon to see a traffic signal on a 65-MPH road, although you will likely see good warning signs.

colorado does this in some places, but i'm not sure anyone obeys them. a lot of places have 'prepare to stop when flashing' signs ahead of them.

[zachary_amaryllis]

Why three?  IMHO it should be counted on a sliding scale, as stoplights on a 55 mph road are extremely common, bit less so on a 60 mph road, much less so on a 65 mph road, and I am certainly not knowing of any on a road posted at 70.

I've updated my OP to say three consecutive lights, and also no freeway segments in between. I'm not talking about a random stoplight here or there, I'm talking about multiple (at least three) and on a somewhat consistent basis, too, not huge gaps in between.
Regarding the bolded statement, I'm not at all convinced. We haven't had any street view links thus far, however, I am updating my OP to link to a segment of NY 104.

us 50 just west of canon city has 2 of them within a mile or two, on the 65 mph section (evans blvd and sh-67)

[debragga]

I hope this hasn't already been mentioned here (I did a quick scroll-through but didn't read every single post):

Has anyone else noticed how Oklahoma reduces the speed limit from 65 to 55 any time a 65-MPH road approaches a traffic signal?  It's one of the few things Oklahoma does consistently (unless there are roads I haven't seen where they don't do this).  Other states, like neighboring Kansas, don't have this practice as far as I know.  In Kansas, it's not very uncommon to see a traffic signal on a 65-MPH road, although you will likely see good warning signs.

Louisiana does this consistently as well

[froggie]

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone — and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd

And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That's even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

[webny99]

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone — and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd

And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That's even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

However, there is a sign visible in the Street View link (between the two left turn signals) that reads LEFT TURN YIELD ON FLASHING YELLOW ARROW.
So unless the sign is incorrect or has been removed since 2019, permissive left turns appear to be allowed.

[froggie]

^ I believe that's another MnDOT default due to the 4-lens signal.  I can tell you from personal experience that the signals on 55 on the other side of the metro NEVER go FYA, even at 1am...

[TheHighwayMan3561]

65 MPH stoplights are all over in MN.

US 10 has a number of them between Elk River and St. Cloud
US 169 at Fremont Avenue in Zimmerman
MN 23 between US 10 and Foley
MN 65 between Ham Lake and Cambridge
US 14 at County 5 in Byron (this one might be getting interchanged soon)