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Author Topic: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits  (Read 30932 times)

jeffandnicole

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #175 on: August 15, 2021, 11:25:08 PM »

I hope this hasn't already been mentioned here (I did a quick scroll-through but didn't read every single post):

Has anyone else noticed how Oklahoma reduces the speed limit from 65 to 55 any time a 65-MPH road approaches a traffic signal?  It's one of the few things Oklahoma does consistently (unless there are roads I haven't seen where they don't do this).  Other states, like neighboring Kansas, don't have this practice as far as I know.  In Kansas, it's not very uncommon to see a traffic signal on a 65-MPH road, although you will likely see good warning signs.

I may have mentioned this earlier in this thread, but FL does this as well, at least on US 301. There are no intersections with traffic lights with speed limits greater than 55 mph, which means there are numerous momentary drops from 60 or 65 mph.
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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #176 on: August 15, 2021, 11:27:11 PM »

^ I believe that's another MnDOT default due to the 4-lens signal.  I can tell you from personal experience that the signals on 55 on the other side of the metro NEVER go FYA, even at 1am...

So there's probably no FYA phase, meaning the sign is only theoretical. Interesting.



65 MPH stoplights are all over in MN.

Are there any others in such close proximity to the Twin Cities, though? I was surprised by the 65 mph limit on that section of MN 55.
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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #177 on: August 15, 2021, 11:55:19 PM »

Are there any others in such close proximity to the Twin Cities, though? I was surprised by the 65 mph limit on that section of MN 55.

The next closest is probably MN 36/Lake Elmo Avenue between 694 and Stillwater, but there are plans to make that into an interchange in 2025.
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webny99

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #178 on: August 16, 2021, 07:58:57 AM »

Are there any others in such close proximity to the Twin Cities, though? I was surprised by the 65 mph limit on that section of MN 55.

The next closest is probably MN 36/Lake Elmo Avenue between 694 and Stillwater, but there are plans to make that into an interchange in 2025.

Huh, I passed through there last weekend as well (heading westbound) and failed to notice the 65 mph speed limit. I was probably too busy focusing on the traffic going the other way - it had to be a solid two miles of traffic approaching that light. This was Friday afternoon, of course, so probably peak time, but still, I'm not sure I've seen anything like it for a single light.
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roadfro

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #179 on: August 16, 2021, 11:15:25 AM »

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone – and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd
And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That’s even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

However, there is a sign visible in the Street View link (between the two left turn signals) that reads LEFT TURN YIELD ON FLASHING YELLOW ARROW.
So unless the sign is incorrect or has been removed since 2019, permissive left turns appear to be allowed.
^ I believe that's another MnDOT default due to the 4-lens signal.  I can tell you from personal experience that the signals on 55 on the other side of the metro NEVER go FYA, even at 1am...

If it's the case that they used the 4-aspect signal housing, but never intend to run permitted phasing, I fail to see how that saves MnDOT money long term. I would imagine a 4-aspect signal would cost a little more in initial purchase price (plus, potentially, having the wiring installed to accommodate the FYA phase), plus also the added cost of installing a sign whose instructions are not going to be used...

I could see if this were a location where a permitted operation were conceivable. But for a dual-left turn along a higher-speed divided highway not far from a slight curve...it just doesn't seem to be a likely candidate for a permitted left in most jurisdictions.
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Mike2357

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #180 on: August 16, 2021, 12:44:09 PM »

What roads have speed limits of 55 mph or higher, and yet still have traffic lights on them?
What is the highest posted speed limit in the US on a road with traffic lights?

A road segment must be signed for at least 50 mph and have at least three consecutive traffic lights to qualify. You have to start over if the speed limit drops, or it becomes a freeway.

NY 104, divided and signed 55 mph, has ten or so lights in the Town of Ontario.
NY 531 is also famous for 65 mph facing a signal (though it may drop to 55 briefly on the approach, and can't qualify anyway because only one light).

Routes 110, and 231 in Long Island. What really gets me about this is that these roads literally have the same speed limit, 55 mph, as the two major east west expressways, when those speed limits should be higher.
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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #181 on: August 17, 2021, 06:55:52 PM »

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone – and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd
And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That’s even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

However, as has been pointed out before, there are examples of double left turn FYA signals in Minnesota that do operate with time of day phasing. This may not be one of them, but Minnesota is one of the few states that does (a) install dual left turns with the capability of permissive phasing, and (b) not outright ban them (many states do not have recommendations against permissive phasing with dual left turns, but rather outright bans).
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mrsman

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #182 on: January 16, 2022, 04:19:01 PM »

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone – and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd
And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That’s even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

However, as has been pointed out before, there are examples of double left turn FYA signals in Minnesota that do operate with time of day phasing. This may not be one of them, but Minnesota is one of the few states that does (a) install dual left turns with the capability of permissive phasing, and (b) not outright ban them (many states do not have recommendations against permissive phasing with dual left turns, but rather outright bans).

Why would there be a sign saying "left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" if there is no time when the FYA will appear?
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #183 on: January 17, 2022, 01:51:42 PM »

While in the Twin Cities area last weekend, I was quite surprised to find that Minnesota has at least one stoplight in a 65 mph zone – and in a fairly suburbanized/developed area, no less: MN 55 at Argenta Trail/Yankee Doodle Rd
And a double left turn with capability for permissive phasing! That’s even more rare with that speed limit.

Not as rare as you may think.  Given MnDOT policies (pg 2-20), I highly doubt this signal uses a permissive mode.  When the FYA was rolled out, MnDOT determined there were cost savings in going with 4-lens left turn signals for ALL left turn signals regardless of whether they're protected-permitted or protected-only.  In coming years, you will find the 5-lens signal an increasingly endangered species in Minnesota (and most of the remaining examples I know of are at the local or county level).

However, as has been pointed out before, there are examples of double left turn FYA signals in Minnesota that do operate with time of day phasing. This may not be one of them, but Minnesota is one of the few states that does (a) install dual left turns with the capability of permissive phasing, and (b) not outright ban them (many states do not have recommendations against permissive phasing with dual left turns, but rather outright bans).

Why would there be a sign saying "left turn yield on flashing yellow arrow" if there is no time when the FYA will appear?

I've been led to believe that some (perhaps even many?) of these do switch to permissive modes during overnight hours. If not that, I suppose the sign is SOP with flashing yellow arrows, even if they intend to operate them protected-only 24/7.
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Daniel Fiddler

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #184 on: January 17, 2022, 02:08:03 PM »

Not really "high speed", but US 45 BYP in Jackson is 55 mph with red lights for most of the highway, and US 45 E to Martin where it's 55 mph bypassing Medina and Bradford has red lights (they enforce said 55 too, at least Bradford is a speed trap, illegal photo speed trap at that, they can't force you to pay the fine since it's illegal, lol).  I don't remember the 65 zones having red lights.

US 412 toward Dyersburg and Lexington don't have red lights, US 412 toward Dyersburg AT ALL and US 412 toward Lexington once it becomes 4 lanes until you get into town and it slows down to 40 mph.

I don't remember US 45 W toward Union City since I haven't been on it in a long ass time past Trenton (as in probably when I was 10 or less), plus I don't think it gets past 55 anyway, and I haven't personally driven US 45 south past the South Jackson Walmart, I have been on it down to Tupelo, but a friend was driving, and that was five years ago.  I do know it gets up to 65, and I know the 55 zones have red lights though.
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BlueOutback7

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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #185 on: January 17, 2022, 02:12:02 PM »

There’s a light on MA 2 out in Fitchburg at the intersection of Mt. Elam Rd. Passed it many times.
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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #186 on: January 19, 2022, 10:10:37 AM »

There’s a light on MA 2 out in Fitchburg at the intersection of Mt. Elam Rd. Passed it many times.

I'd hardly call 45 mph a "high speed limit": https://goo.gl/maps/b6UWpme2MF693VA87
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Re: Traffic lights on roads with high speed limits
« Reply #187 on: January 19, 2022, 10:39:27 AM »

I didn’t realize the speed limit was 45. I would have guessed 55, but what about the traffic light on US 1 in Peabody?
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