Unpopular Anything Road-Related Opinions

[skluth]

IMO a County Route can never be a highway. Which leads to a paradox, in which CR 215 around the West side of Las Vegas cannot be considered a highway but only a minor road despite it being a freeway. Now that is something.

Suffolk County, NY would like a word with you.  Many of the most major surface streets are actually county routes, with the major county roads actually being more major than most of the non-freeway state routes.  I would say the major exceptions are NY 110, NY 231, NY 347, NY 454, NY 114, and NY 27.  CR 46, CR 83, and CR 97 are the major north-south routes in that part of the county, not nearby NY 112, for example.  CR 111 is more major than NY 24.  And CR 48 is more major than NY 25.

You can also find several letter-designated highways in Missouri
Route D/Page Avenue in St Louis County
Route M in Jefferson County
Route A in Jeff Co
Route DD in St Charles Co
Route C in Webster Co

Whether you consider these county routes is debatable. But they aren't interstate, US, or state routes; they're more akin to Wisconsin's CTH system or Texas's FM routes.

[Big John]

IMO a County Route can never be a highway. Which leads to a paradox, in which CR 215 around the West side of Las Vegas cannot be considered a highway but only a minor road despite it being a freeway. Now that is something.

Suffolk County, NY would like a word with you.  Many of the most major surface streets are actually county routes, with the major county roads actually being more major than most of the non-freeway state routes.  I would say the major exceptions are NY 110, NY 231, NY 347, NY 454, NY 114, and NY 27.  CR 46, CR 83, and CR 97 are the major north-south routes in that part of the county, not nearby NY 112, for example.  CR 111 is more major than NY 24.  And CR 48 is more major than NY 25.

You can also find several letter-designated highways in Missouri
Route D/Page Avenue in St Louis County
Route M in Jefferson County
Route A in Jeff Co
Route DD in St Charles Co
Route C in Webster Co

Whether you consider these county routes is debatable. But they aren't interstate, US, or state routes; they're more akin to Wisconsin's CTH system or Texas's FM routes.

Missouri lettered routes are actually supplemental state routes.

[achilles765]

I actually like left exits...
and double decked roads/freeways
and I think everywhere should have frontage roads

[Molandfreak]

I-99 is fine.
Left exits and well-placed roundabouts are awesome.
Concrete highways are great.
There's nothing confusing about concurrencies.

[US20IL64]

I-894 in Milwaukee is fine, also. No need to renumber, it designates a bypass for travelers.

But, western extension of I-72 and I-172 were 'pork barrel' projects to appease western IL voters. Not needed that badly.

[SkyPesos]

and I think everywhere should have frontage roads

Including freeways in the middle of nowhere, and barely have the traffic counts to justify its existing 4 lanes?

[Bruce]

and I think everywhere should have frontage roads

We definitely have room to fit frontage roads in narrow canyons and in dense cities...not.

[hotdogPi]

and I think everywhere should have frontage roads

We definitely have room to fit frontage roads in narrow canyons and in dense cities...not.

There's room in dense cities as long as you use already existing roads. Somerville MA here

[kernals12]

Here's an example of a place where frontage roads would be good:
In Germany, they want to build a bypass of the town of Oberschleißheim.



But there's already a perfectly good Autobahn going by the town. With frontage roads, you get your local bypass at far less cost and destruction to the environment.

[skluth]

IMO a County Route can never be a highway. Which leads to a paradox, in which CR 215 around the West side of Las Vegas cannot be considered a highway but only a minor road despite it being a freeway. Now that is something.

Suffolk County, NY would like a word with you.  Many of the most major surface streets are actually county routes, with the major county roads actually being more major than most of the non-freeway state routes.  I would say the major exceptions are NY 110, NY 231, NY 347, NY 454, NY 114, and NY 27.  CR 46, CR 83, and CR 97 are the major north-south routes in that part of the county, not nearby NY 112, for example.  CR 111 is more major than NY 24.  And CR 48 is more major than NY 25.

You can also find several letter-designated highways in Missouri
Route D/Page Avenue in St Louis County
Route M in Jefferson County
Route A in Jeff Co
Route DD in St Charles Co
Route C in Webster Co

Whether you consider these county routes is debatable. But they aren't interstate, US, or state routes; they're more akin to Wisconsin's CTH system or Texas's FM routes.

Missouri lettered routes are actually supplemental state routes.

Supplemental - meaning it's not a regular state route and added to complete a system. It shouldn't be used as a major highway.

[Scott5114]

IMO a County Route can never be a highway. Which leads to a paradox, in which CR 215 around the West side of Las Vegas cannot be considered a highway but only a minor road despite it being a freeway. Now that is something.

Suffolk County, NY would like a word with you.  Many of the most major surface streets are actually county routes, with the major county roads actually being more major than most of the non-freeway state routes.  I would say the major exceptions are NY 110, NY 231, NY 347, NY 454, NY 114, and NY 27.  CR 46, CR 83, and CR 97 are the major north-south routes in that part of the county, not nearby NY 112, for example.  CR 111 is more major than NY 24.  And CR 48 is more major than NY 25.

You can also find several letter-designated highways in Missouri
Route D/Page Avenue in St Louis County
Route M in Jefferson County
Route A in Jeff Co
Route DD in St Charles Co
Route C in Webster Co

Whether you consider these county routes is debatable. But they aren't interstate, US, or state routes; they're more akin to Wisconsin's CTH system or Texas's FM routes.

Missouri lettered routes are actually supplemental state routes.

Supplemental - meaning it's not a regular state route and added to complete a system. It shouldn't be used as a major highway.

They are, however, still state routes, as they are maintained by MoDOT, not the counties. They just called them "supplemental" instead of "farm-to-market" or "secondary" routes. They serve more or less the same function as FM roads in Texas. But they are in fact state routes.

[MATraveler128]

Wisconsin also has lettered routes. Are those considered a part of the state trunk highway network?

[SkyPesos]

Wisconsin also has lettered routes. Are those considered a part of the state trunk highway network?

Wisconsin's lettered routes are county highways, while Missouri's are secondary SR.

[thspfc]

Wisconsin also has lettered routes. Are those considered a part of the state trunk highway network?

No. Which is good, because including a bunch of glorified farm roads in the statewide system would drag down the quality standards of state highways. It's nice that in WI, you can actually count on state highways to be wide enough, adequately marked, plowed of snow in winter, and adequately signed. That's not the case in a lot of states.

[SkyPesos]

Another unpopular opinion of mine: Dancing arrows are good way to show option lanes. With the dancing arrows ban since 2009, you have to either use 1) two straight down arrows pointing towards the same lane, 2) use a sign per lane, like what OhioDOT is doing now (and I've ranted about it in another thread), or 3) an APL. #2 is already a terrible idea, and ignoring the APLs for now, with two straight down arrows, a driver couldn't really see clearly at freeway speed that the two arrows are pointing down at the same lane until way up close. While with two angled/dancing arrows pointing at a lane, it's much easier to tell that a lane is an option lane just from the angle of the arrows. I wouldn't use dancing arrows outside of denoting option lanes though.

[ran4sh]

I don't see how dancing arrows are better than the CA style of simply pointing 2 down arrows to the same lane. But then again I'm from GA which has a history of misaligning down arrows so that they don't really point to the center of a lane. If OH has historically been accurate with its arrows then maybe it could work.

In CA it's obvious because the two arrows are next to each other just on different panels.

I'm surprised that the MN style of option lane signs was never more popular.

[SkyPesos]

I don't see how dancing arrows are better than the CA style of simply pointing 2 down arrows to the same lane. But then again I'm from GA which has a history of misaligning down arrows so that they don't really point to the center of a lane. If OH has historically been accurate with its arrows then maybe it could work.

In CA it's obvious because the two arrows are next to each other just on different panels.

I'm surprised that the MN style of option lane signs was never more popular.

I just think that it's clearer that the second to right lane is an option lane by signing like in the image below, than with two straight down arrows (of course, an APL is better, but they are rare in the state)

Also, looking from the exit tab design, this is a newer installation in the state. Wonder how this made it past the no dancing arrows restriction 

[I-55]

My friends turn the volume up to hear their music better, I turn the volume down to hear the concrete better.

[jemacedo9]

I always felt like using a wide single panel with two diagonal down arrow pointing down to the option lane would have worked out fine.

So...somewhat like an APL...but instead of the APL up arrows...regular down arrows including dancing arrows.

It was always the separate panels w/ the dancing arrows that seemed to be confusing.

[CtrlAltDel]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

[Rothman]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

No.

[formulanone]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

No.

The judges would also have accepted "ΛV()" for an answer.

A continuous sign with both options, and a separator line that runs about 3/4 of the height of the sign panel works for me.

[CtrlAltDel]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

No.

The judges would also have accepted "ΛV()" for an answer.

A continuous sign with both options, and a separator line that runs about 3/4 of the height of the sign panel works for me.

Like this?

[formulanone]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

No.

The judges would also have accepted "ΛV()" for an answer.

A continuous sign with both options, and a separator line that runs about 3/4 of the height of the sign panel works for me.

Like this?

Yup, that. I couldn't think of a location with a good example (that wasn't an APL sign) but I know I've seen them dozens of times.

[Rothman]

I've long thought that something like this might work:

No.

The judges would also have accepted "ΛV()" for an answer.

A continuous sign with both options, and a separator line that runs about 3/4 of the height of the sign panel works for me.

Like this?

Yes.