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[3467]

Macomb bypass is a 2 lane freeway connecting 2 4 lane exoressways.
Illinois defines its super 2s as shoulders curves turn lanes and passing lanes every 5 miles. Iowa seems to be using the same . Sadly while both have some good 2 lanes they don't really have their definition.

[Dirt Roads]

The Wikipedia reference was missing a notable one in Virginia:  US-460 was constructed as a two-lane freeway bypass around Farmville in the early 1980s.  IIRC, the section west of US-15 remained as a two-lane freeway until the mid-1990s or so.  Although there were only a handful of exits constructed on this stretch of US-460, plus only two overpasses, it truly had the feel of a freeway.

[kphoger]

As was noted in the same thread several years ago, some states consider "Super 2s" to include at-grade intersections.  So in some regions, no they are not the same thing...just like freeways and expressways are not the same thing in some regions.

Are there any states that actually have a definition of "Super 2" with full access control as part of the definition?  I wasn't aware of any.

just like freeways and expressways are not the same thing in some regions.

Isn't the difference between the two a federal definition, with the areas that consider them to be the same thing just using the term incorrectly?

In point of reference, FHWA does indeed define them...an example being the HPMS Manual.

By that field manual's definitions, then, Super 2 highways are neither expressway nor freeway facilities, as they do not provide 'two or more lanes for the exclusive use of through traffic in each direction'.

[tolbs17]

US-264 in Middlesex, Bailey, and Sims was between 1972 and 1978. After that, it became a 4 lane freeway.

[Mapmikey]

The Wikipedia reference was missing a notable one in Virginia:  US-460 was constructed as a two-lane freeway bypass around Farmville in the early 1980s.  IIRC, the section west of US-15 remained as a two-lane freeway until the mid-1990s or so.  Although there were only a handful of exits constructed on this stretch of US-460, plus only two overpasses, it truly had the feel of a freeway.

The Virginia list has errors

US 301 where is parallels I-95 is a frontage road and simply the former southbound alignment from when it was 4-laned in the 1950s.

US 17 Fredericksburg is definitely not one (multiple stop lights plus other at-grade intersections.  Zero interchanges over its 6 miles).

[Dirt Roads]

US 17 Fredericksburg is definitely not one (multiple stop lights plus other at-grade intersections.  Zero interchanges over its 6 miles).

Gosh, I can't believe that stretch of US-17 has never been four-laned.  I remember driving it when it first opened, and although it felt like a Super 2 there were only three or four intersections in the "straight" section headed east.  Massaponax Church Road and Sandy Lane [Drive] are the two I remember, and then you hit a bunch of farm entrances along the way.  Seems like enough traffic to warrant four lane all the way from Port Royal.  If for no other reason, this should be the main truck route to Dahlgren from the I-95 corridor.

[hbelkins]

My first exposure to the term "super-2" was as a full limited-access freeway that is two lanes (or three lanes where truck lanes/passing lanes were involved) and that at-grades were inconsistent with the notion that it's a true "super-2."

If we are expanding the definition of "super-2" to mean any improved surface route with wide shoulders, gentle grades, sweeping curves, etc., then most of Kentucky's rebuilt routes would qualify, such as KY 30 between London and US 421 (currently under construction to continue on to another improved portion in Owsley County).

[plain]

US 17 Fredericksburg is definitely not one (multiple stop lights plus other at-grade intersections.  Zero interchanges over its 6 miles).

Gosh, I can't believe that stretch of US-17 has never been four-laned.  I remember driving it when it first opened, and although it felt like a Super 2 there were only three or four intersections in the "straight" section headed east.  Massaponax Church Road and Sandy Lane [Drive] are the two I remember, and then you hit a bunch of farm entrances along the way.  Seems like enough traffic to warrant four lane all the way from Port Royal.  If for no other reason, this should be the main truck route to Dahlgren from the I-95 corridor.

Most of VA 3 between I-95 and US 301 is 4-lane instead of US 17.

[Dirt Roads]

US 17 Fredericksburg is definitely not one (multiple stop lights plus other at-grade intersections.  Zero interchanges over its 6 miles).

Gosh, I can't believe that stretch of US-17 has never been four-laned.  I remember driving it when it first opened, and although it felt like a Super 2 there were only three or four intersections in the "straight" section headed east.  Massaponax Church Road and Sandy Lane [Drive] are the two I remember, and then you hit a bunch of farm entrances along the way.  Seems like enough traffic to warrant four lane all the way from Port Royal.  If for no other reason, this should be the main truck route to Dahlgren from the I-95 corridor.

Most of VA 3 between I-95 and US 301 is 4-lane instead of US 17.

Indeed, but US-17 would be somewhat faster if it were four-laned.  I used to go swimming and fishing at Colonial Beach, so I used to know the area well (it's been a while, though).  Anyhow, it looks like VA-218 (Caledon Road to Dahlgren Road) is now faster than VA-3, which means that there's plenty of congestion on VA-3.  VA-218 was a nice ride, but I found the two-lane pretty slow when getting behind a truck or school bus.  I've done VA-3 all the way to US-301 before, I preferred to cutoff on VA-208 (the lower part of Dalgren Road) and just deal with the trucks on the VA-218 part of Dalgren Road.  Cool Spring Road was a good crossover from I-95 and US-17 Business (VA-218) to VA-3, but that whole area was pretty congested even back 20 years ago or so.

[epzik8]

US 17 Fredericksburg is definitely not one (multiple stop lights plus other at-grade intersections.  Zero interchanges over its 6 miles).

I have been on this stretch of 17 minimally (one time I took 17 from Warrenton all the way to Tappahannock) and it does not feel like one to me.

[skluth]

Chris Bessert’s Wisconsin Highways website calls US-51 between US-8 and CTH-L a “Super 2” freeway because it has no at-grade intersections. But there’s only one cross road, CTH-N, and there’s an overpass there because CTH-N is in a valley. To me, in order to qualify as a Super 2, a road needs to have no at-grade anything and multiple interchanges over a stretch of at least five miles. US-51 does not fit that criteria.

1) There is no at-grade anything. 2) There is no requirement that a Super 2 have multiple interchanges; that's your criterion. 3) There are three viaducts to avoid conflicts - CTH N, the railroad just south of CTH N, and a state trail. It may not be much of a Super 2, but it qualifies.

[ftballfan]

Chris Bessert’s Wisconsin Highways website calls US-51 between US-8 and CTH-L a “Super 2” freeway because it has no at-grade intersections. But there’s only one cross road, CTH-N, and there’s an overpass there because CTH-N is in a valley. To me, in order to qualify as a Super 2, a road needs to have no at-grade anything and multiple interchanges over a stretch of at least five miles. US-51 does not fit that criteria.

1) There is no at-grade anything. 2) There is no requirement that a Super 2 have multiple interchanges; that's your criterion. 3) There are three viaducts to avoid conflicts - CTH N, the railroad just south of CTH N, and a state trail. It may not be much of a Super 2, but it qualifies.

Would M-231 count? No interchanges, but it has only one at-grade intersection between its termini, multiple overpasses, and a 65 mph speed limit (the only two-lane road south of Lake County to have such a limit).

[skluth]

Chris Bessert’s Wisconsin Highways website calls US-51 between US-8 and CTH-L a “Super 2” freeway because it has no at-grade intersections. But there’s only one cross road, CTH-N, and there’s an overpass there because CTH-N is in a valley. To me, in order to qualify as a Super 2, a road needs to have no at-grade anything and multiple interchanges over a stretch of at least five miles. US-51 does not fit that criteria.

1) There is no at-grade anything. 2) There is no requirement that a Super 2 have multiple interchanges; that's your criterion. 3) There are three viaducts to avoid conflicts - CTH N, the railroad just south of CTH N, and a state trail. It may not be much of a Super 2, but it qualifies.

Would M-231 count? No interchanges, but it has only one at-grade intersection between its termini, multiple overpasses, and a 65 mph speed limit (the only two-lane road south of Lake County to have such a limit).

No. It has an intersection with Lincoln Avenue.

[tolbs17]

I-40 north of Statesville was a two-lane freeway until the 60s.

[DenverBrian]

Did we stop calling them Super 2s?  At any rate, they're not uncommon.  Kansas has a handful of them.  US 75 is a Super 2 from north of I-35 to K-31.  Then there's K-10 south of I-70 and east to US 59, which is technically only a Super 2 Expressway because of the one remaining at-grade intersection, and it carries a significant amount of suburban commuter traffic, rather than being predominately rural like probably most Super 2s.  And then Oklahoma has a tolled Super 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickasaw_Turnpike .

And US 36 in northeast Kansas. I think Gousha used to note these on paper maps as "freeway" without the center line in the graphic they used to draw freeways. (On the map, these sections tended to stand out because without the line running down the center, the road line tended to be perceived by the eye as wider.)