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Author Topic: Control Cities  (Read 262296 times)

Flint1979

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1400 on: December 22, 2021, 06:14:36 PM »

Why is Abbotsford even listed on this big freeway interchange in Wausau Wisconsin like Abbotsford have a population of 2300 in 2010
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UTo6fPL7r495hDYJ6
I don't see the problem with it. WI-29 west goes through Abbotsford and Chippewa Falls so there isn't an issue here.
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chrismarion100

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1401 on: December 22, 2021, 07:27:52 PM »

I think they opened this new interchange in 2010 and 29 was already a expressways since about 2000 (Chippewa Falls bypass opened in 2005)
Why is Abbotsford even listed on this big freeway interchange in Wausau Wisconsin like Abbotsford have a population of 2300 in 2010
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UTo6fPL7r495hDYJ6
Great question.

Is the Abbyland factory stuff big enough to be a regional player? That's all I can think of.
Probably because back 30 years ago before Wis 29 was a freeway/expressway, Abbottsford was the first real city of consequence on 29.  Remember, 51 was a freeway/expressway long before 29.
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Captain Jack

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1402 on: December 26, 2021, 09:15:22 PM »

Proposed New Control Points for Indianapolis:
I-70W: Terre Haute, St. Louis, Rocky Mountains
I-70E: Richmond, Dayton, Baltimore, Atlantic Ocean
I-74E: Rushville, Cincinnati
I-74W: Crawfordsville, Quad Cities
I-65N: Lafayette, The Region, Chicago, Great Lakes
I-65S: Columbus IN, Louisville, Nashville, Gulf of Mexico
I-69N: Anderson, Fort Wayne, Canada
I-69S: Bloomington, Evansville, Mississippi Delta

I assume you mean Shelbyville or Greensburg for I-74E? Rushville is 15 miles off of I-74, and considerably smaller than both of the other two, which are both located along I-74.

INDOT is a strange one when it comes to controls. They have left Indianapolis and or Bloomington off the northbound signs on I-69 fromm Evansville north. The completed interstate currently gets you within 20 miles of I-465, dumping straight into a 4-lane state-route heading straight towards Indianapolis. As mentioned, St. Louis is used for an interstate that kind of points you in the direction of St. Louis, yet ends over 100 miles away, and requires two additional interstate routes to reach St. Louis.

INDOT also doesn't use Evansville for I-64, yet Illinois does. Evansville should be the control on I-64 between Louisville and St Louis, considering its size, and junction with another interstate route, as well as a major US Highway.
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tdindy88

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1403 on: December 26, 2021, 10:38:02 PM »

They don't mention a control for I-69 north of Evansville right now due to the highway's lack of completion. I think with all the construction going on they don't really want to advertise the fact that the highway goes to Indianapolis right now. That and they didn't want to put Crane or Bloomington on the signs only to have to change them later on. There are currently plans to do some signage work along that corridor within the next few years at which point I'm sure this will be fixed.

I-64's junctions with US 41 and I-69 are not really in Evansville proper and are barely even within the exurban fringe of the city, let alone the suburbs. I actually like it that INDOT doesn't necessarily include it on I-64. They stick with the major cities along all of their highways. To that end I'm not a fan of Huntsville, Alabama being a control city for I-65 between Nashville and Birmingham, it's a similar situation as I-64 with Evansville. Even the major interstate junctions in Illinois list Louisville as the control city (even if the smaller junctions have Evansville.)
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roadman65

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1404 on: December 26, 2021, 11:15:06 PM »

Using Evansville for I-64 in Illinois is like KYTC In Kentucky using Ashland, which is several miles off the interstate.  Or using Savannah in SC and GA for I-95 before that particular city extended its borders to presently cover the I-95 and GA 204 exchange was another lame one. 

In NJ when I-78 copied US 22 control cities, they omitted Somerville and went right to Clinton from Newark cause Somerville is five miles south of I-78 on another interstate that is a fraction of Evansville’s distance from I-64, but nonetheless passed over due to that five miles.

Then you have Los Angeles on I-40 from Flagstaff westward which many in another thread topic, seem okay with that being used despite two other interstates need to go the rest of the way.  Los Angeles is farther away from I-40 than Evansville is from I-64 and Huntsville is from I-65 in Alabama.
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roadman65

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1405 on: December 26, 2021, 11:26:25 PM »

I have issue with Benson being used as SB I-95 control city from I-40 though, on the 1 and 2 mile out guides.  It should be Fayetteville on those particular signs while using Benson as supplemental instead of Fayetteville as the supplemental there. Benson is one exit away with another exit nearby for it.  In addition Benson should have Next 2 Exits heading WB on I-40 to show the small city has two exits, with along with I-95 and NC 50 being the intersection of motorists facilities.
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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1406 on: December 26, 2021, 11:33:42 PM »

INDOT is a strange one when it comes to controls... As mentioned, St. Louis is used for an interstate that kind of points you in the direction of St. Louis, yet ends over 100 miles away, and requires two additional interstate routes to reach St. Louis.
You're referring to I-24 here, right? It doesn't go through Indiana, so it's none of INDOT's business. The interstates that INDOT do sign with St Louis as a control city (I-64 and I-70) actually enter the city, which should be kept as is on both.
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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1407 on: December 27, 2021, 12:38:28 AM »

I have issue with Benson being used as SB I-95 control city from I-40 though, on the 1 and 2 mile out guides.  It should be Fayetteville on those particular signs while using Benson as supplemental instead of Fayetteville as the supplemental there. Benson is one exit away with another exit nearby for it.  In addition Benson should have Next 2 Exits heading WB on I-40 to show the small city has two exits, with along with I-95 and NC 50 being the intersection of motorists facilities.

The "Next X Exits" sign is meant for when X is at least 3 or 4, while the MUTCD doesn't prohibit the use of "Next 2 Exits", it's intended that Community Interchanges Identification signs be used for that number of exits. (I.e. "Benson Exits" with the 2 exits listed below) I don't think NC uses those signs though.
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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1408 on: December 27, 2021, 09:39:32 AM »

Illinois only uses Evansville as a secondary control city at some of the intersecting routes (like you will see minor towns on some of the intersecting routes of other interstates, yet St. Louis and Chicago remain the main controls). As you're heading west on I-64 where it splits from the I-57 concurrency, Louisville is what's signed.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1409 on: December 27, 2021, 09:49:08 AM »

Illinois only uses Evansville as a secondary control city at some of the intersecting routes (like you will see minor towns on some of the intersecting routes of other interstates, yet St. Louis and Chicago remain the main controls). As you're heading west on I-64 where it splits from the I-57 concurrency, Louisville is what's signed.
Louisville is signed at the I-55/64/70 E St Louis interchange and at the I-64/I-255 interchange

Louisville is the Primary Control from crossing the Mississippi River out of St Louis until crossing the Ohio River at New Albany into Louisville

I think INDOT would be wise to use something similar to IDOT’s Primary and Secondary Control system, but they (for the most part) do not, so whatever
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roadman65

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Re: Control Cities
« Reply #1410 on: December 28, 2021, 04:51:02 PM »

I have issue with Benson being used as SB I-95 control city from I-40 though, on the 1 and 2 mile out guides.  It should be Fayetteville on those particular signs while using Benson as supplemental instead of Fayetteville as the supplemental there. Benson is one exit away with another exit nearby for it.  In addition Benson should have Next 2 Exits heading WB on I-40 to show the small city has two exits, with along with I-95 and NC 50 being the intersection of motorists facilities.

The "Next X Exits" sign is meant for when X is at least 3 or 4, while the MUTCD doesn't prohibit the use of "Next 2 Exits", it's intended that Community Interchanges Identification signs be used for that number of exits. (I.e. "Benson Exits" with the 2 exits listed below) I don't think NC uses those signs though.

Then have the Supplemental sign that reads Rocky Mount Exit 328B amended to Benson Exit 328A as Rocky Mount is listed on the Exit 328B overheads.

Plus if we get into the MUTCD compliant, Exit 328 on I-40 in NC is full of no no’s like inconsistency in signs.  Putting the closest city last and farthest city first is one plus the Exit 328A guide read’s “Fayetteville and Benson” while the next one reads “ Benson and Fayetteville “ is very inconsistent

To make it better they should erect a Benson use Exits 328A & 326 being the I-95 north ramp would make the Next 2 Exits more confusing as it’s really second and third exit not the next 2 consecutive exits.  If not than copy SCDOT and use Next 2 Interchanges.
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