"Ship of Theseus" routes

[SEWIGuy]

none of I-41  north of the Milwaukee-Racine county line in Wisconsin is on the original routing that US 41 took over from the original WI 15 back in the 920s.

Mike

I think the freeway / expressway section between Suamico and Abrams is built on the original alignment.  I am also pretty sure that the routing in Marinette is at least partially on the original.

[roadman65]

US 22 east of Paxtonia, PA to the Delaware River falls into this. None of existing US 22, not only concurrent with I-78, but the arterial part west of I-78 to Paxtonia and of course the Lehigh Valley Thruway part are not original.

[usends]

Inspired by this thread, I've put together a blog post about the US routes that fall into this category: only three that I'm aware of (see post #4).  US 141 comes really close but gets disqualified due to a short segment in the Green Bay Area.  (That post also discusses US routes that are in sort of the opposite situation: two different US routes that not only shared the same numerical designation, they also shared the same alignment along some stretch.  Only three of those as well.)

Would US 12 in Michigan (mostly running on what was formerly US 112) fit this category?

Even if you're isolating only the Michigan section of US 12, it would still barely get disqualified, because the segment from New Buffalo to the Indiana line has always carried US 12 (both before and after the reroute along former 112).

US 311 in Virginia now is well east of where it was when it was dropped for US 220 in the 1930s.

True, except the short segment between Winston-Salem and Madison has always carried US 311.

[US 89]

A couple examples in Utah...

SR 111 - originally ran east-west along 123rd/126th South in Salt Lake County between SR 68 and 71. However, after a series of extensions and truncations, that original segment is now an extension of SR 71, while 111 has become a north-south highway at the far west end of the valley, connecting SR 201 to SR 209 (which is still consistently mislabeled 48 on maps).

SR 224 - was originally a spur from Midway to a hot spring (essentially today's SR 222), but got extended north through Park City to I-80. Then the portion over Empire Pass in Wasatch County was returned to county jurisdiction and there were two separate segments of 224 for several years, until the original southern segment was renumbered to 222.

[SEWIGuy]

Inspired by this thread, I've put together a blog post about the US routes that fall into this category: only three that I'm aware of (see post #4).  US 141 comes really close but gets disqualified due to a short segment in the Green Bay Area.  (That post also discusses US routes that are in sort of the opposite situation: two different US routes that not only shared the same numerical designation, they also shared the same alignment along some stretch.  Only three of those as well.)

This is wonderful stuff. Thank you.  I drive on that sole remaining section of the original US-141 nearly every day, yet forgot about that when it came to this topic!

[kurumi]

Inspired by this thread, I've put together a blog post about the US routes that fall into this category: only three that I'm aware of (see post #4).  US 141 comes really close but gets disqualified due to a short segment in the Green Bay Area.  (That post also discusses US routes that are in sort of the opposite situation: two different US routes that not only shared the same numerical designation, they also shared the same alignment along some stretch.  Only three of those as well.)

I highly recommend checking the link above. Maps and an animation illustrate the concept very clearly.

[mgk920]

Here in Appleton, WI, WI 125 originally took over a previous state highway route on Prospect Ave between Memorial Dr (WI 47/then US 10) and what is now I-41.  In the 1950s(?), it was moved in its entirety to its current routing (College Ave) when the street was extended westward on a new ROW to then US 41.

Mike

[Occidental Tourist]

The "Ship of Theseus" is a notional ship that has had all of its parts replaced. Does this make it a different ship?

There are some highways that are like this:
* for each revision, some part of the highway was unchanged (that is, never relocated entirely at once)
* the highway was never renumbered or redesignated entirely
* but the current highway has no alignment in common with the original

In Connecticut, you have CT 27: originally from CT 84(184) to CT 12 in Preston; then extended south to Mystic; then it shed the original part. Today's short route is disconnected from the original route.

CT 15 is another example: though most of it was moved from today's CT 17 to the Merritt/Wilbur Cross/Berlin Turnpike/Charter Oak Bridge alignment, the portion from East Hartford to Union stayed CT 15 (though it was being upgraded). But now, old and new 15 no longer overlap.

There may be a few more, but CT 72 is another prominent example. Originally, it followed CT 3 and CT 372 from Middletown to CT 10 in Plainville. None of that is part of CT 72 now.

CT 9 just misses this IMHO. There's a segment between Middletown and Cromwell where today's freeway replaced the 1932 alignment.

There are probably many examples where a freeway completely replaced a surface route (9 comes closest here) that are not as interesting. But there may be some examples in your neck of the woods.

Hey, it's Kurumi!  Are we coming up on the silver anniversary of Signmaker?

Back to topic: the only highway I could identify in California where the entirety of the historical routing meets the criteria for this is CA-134, which used to start at US 101 (Ventura Blvd) in The Valley, run east along Moorpark St, Riverside Drive, Alameda Ave, San Fernando Rd (and later Golden State Highway), Colorado St, the Colorado Freeway, and Colorado Blvd to US 66 in Pasadena, none of which the route is currently routed along . . . EXCEPT that a portion of the east end of the current 134 freeway between Figueroa and San Rafael is paved over the old Colorado Freeway, so it's not quite a perfect fit.

[Max Rockatansky]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

[TheStranger]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

Looking at your post earlier from Gribblenation, would this be the correct 1934-1936 layout from the north terminus to the San Diego County line:

Garey Avenue south from what was then US 66 south through Pomona to Riverside Drive/current Chino Valley Freeway
An alignment subsumed by the Chino Valley Freeway southeast to Pipeline Avenue
Pipeline Avenue south to today's Route 142
Chino Hills Parkway east to Central Avenue
Central Avenue south to El Prado Road
El Prado Road southeast to Pine Avenue
Pine Avenue slight northeast to Route 83
Route 83 south to Pomona Rincon Road
Pomona Rincon Road (including section removed by Prado Dam construction) south to Auto Center Drive
Auto Center Drive to Pomona Road
Pomona Road to a non-existant crossing towards Yorba Street
Yorba Street to 6th Street in Corona (former US 91)
6th Street east to Main Street
Main Street south to Ontario Avenue
Ontario Avenue southeast to Temescal Canyon Road
Temescal Canyon Road southeast to Lake Street
Lake Street south to Lakeshore Drive
Lakeshore Drive southeast to Mission Trail
Mission Trail to Palomar Street
Palmoar Street south towards Washington Street in Wildomar
Washington Street to Ivy Street, then southbound again at Jefferson
Jefferson Avenue south to Old Town Front Street in Temecula
Front Street to Route 79
Route 79 to Rainbow Valley Road south

[Max Rockatansky]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

Looking at your post earlier from Gribblenation, would this be the correct 1934-1936 layout from the north terminus to the San Diego County line:

Garey Avenue south from what was then US 66 south through Pomona to Riverside Drive/current Chino Valley Freeway
An alignment subsumed by the Chino Valley Freeway southeast to Pipeline Avenue
Pipeline Avenue south to today's Route 142
Chino Hills Parkway east to Central Avenue
Central Avenue south to El Prado Road
El Prado Road southeast to Pine Avenue
Pine Avenue slight northeast to Route 83
Route 83 south to Pomona Rincon Road
Pomona Rincon Road (including section removed by Prado Dam construction) south to Auto Center Drive
Auto Center Drive to Pomona Road
Pomona Road to a non-existant crossing towards Yorba Street
Yorba Street to 6th Street in Corona (former US 91)
6th Street east to Main Street
Main Street south to Ontario Avenue
Ontario Avenue southeast to Temescal Canyon Road
Temescal Canyon Road southeast to Lake Street
Lake Street south to Lakeshore Drive
Lakeshore Drive southeast to Mission Trail
Mission Trail to Palomar Street
Palmoar Street south towards Washington Street in Wildomar
Washington Street to Ivy Street, then southbound again at Jefferson
Jefferson Avenue south to Old Town Front Street in Temecula
Front Street to Route 79
Route 79 to Rainbow Valley Road south

Worth noting, it isn't really clear where CA 71 ended after US 395 was extended into California.  There isn't much evidence to suggest it was routed south of Elsinore until around 1940 when it was extended past Temecula. 

[TheStranger]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

Looking at your post earlier from Gribblenation, would this be the correct 1934-1936 layout from the north terminus to the San Diego County line:

Garey Avenue south from what was then US 66 south through Pomona to Riverside Drive/current Chino Valley Freeway
An alignment subsumed by the Chino Valley Freeway southeast to Pipeline Avenue
Pipeline Avenue south to today's Route 142
Chino Hills Parkway east to Central Avenue
Central Avenue south to El Prado Road
El Prado Road southeast to Pine Avenue
Pine Avenue slight northeast to Route 83
Route 83 south to Pomona Rincon Road
Pomona Rincon Road (including section removed by Prado Dam construction) south to Auto Center Drive
Auto Center Drive to Pomona Road
Pomona Road to a non-existant crossing towards Yorba Street
Yorba Street to 6th Street in Corona (former US 91)
6th Street east to Main Street
Main Street south to Ontario Avenue
Ontario Avenue southeast to Temescal Canyon Road
Temescal Canyon Road southeast to Lake Street
Lake Street south to Lakeshore Drive
Lakeshore Drive southeast to Mission Trail
Mission Trail to Palomar Street
Palmoar Street south towards Washington Street in Wildomar
Washington Street to Ivy Street, then southbound again at Jefferson
Jefferson Avenue south to Old Town Front Street in Temecula
Front Street to Route 79
Route 79 to Rainbow Valley Road south

Worth noting, it isn't really clear where CA 71 ended after US 395 was extended into California.  There isn't much evidence to suggest it was routed south of Elsinore until around 1940 when it was extended past Temecula. 

The 1940 California State Highway map (on David Rumsey's site) does show the routing east along today's 79 and 371.

1938 shows 71 ending at Elsinore, and today's 371 as an unpaved road:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California
(It also shows 83 along what later became 79, not sure if this was ever signed in the field)

[Max Rockatansky]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

Looking at your post earlier from Gribblenation, would this be the correct 1934-1936 layout from the north terminus to the San Diego County line:

Garey Avenue south from what was then US 66 south through Pomona to Riverside Drive/current Chino Valley Freeway
An alignment subsumed by the Chino Valley Freeway southeast to Pipeline Avenue
Pipeline Avenue south to today's Route 142
Chino Hills Parkway east to Central Avenue
Central Avenue south to El Prado Road
El Prado Road southeast to Pine Avenue
Pine Avenue slight northeast to Route 83
Route 83 south to Pomona Rincon Road
Pomona Rincon Road (including section removed by Prado Dam construction) south to Auto Center Drive
Auto Center Drive to Pomona Road
Pomona Road to a non-existant crossing towards Yorba Street
Yorba Street to 6th Street in Corona (former US 91)
6th Street east to Main Street
Main Street south to Ontario Avenue
Ontario Avenue southeast to Temescal Canyon Road
Temescal Canyon Road southeast to Lake Street
Lake Street south to Lakeshore Drive
Lakeshore Drive southeast to Mission Trail
Mission Trail to Palomar Street
Palmoar Street south towards Washington Street in Wildomar
Washington Street to Ivy Street, then southbound again at Jefferson
Jefferson Avenue south to Old Town Front Street in Temecula
Front Street to Route 79
Route 79 to Rainbow Valley Road south

Worth noting, it isn't really clear where CA 71 ended after US 395 was extended into California.  There isn't much evidence to suggest it was routed south of Elsinore until around 1940 when it was extended past Temecula. 

The 1940 California State Highway map (on David Rumsey's site) does show the routing east along today's 79 and 371.

1938 shows 71 ending at Elsinore, and today's 371 as an unpaved road:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California
(It also shows 83 along what later became 79, not sure if this was ever signed in the field)

CA 83 definitely was signed, one of the shields popped up on eBay a couple years ago.  Daniel captured an image of the eBay posting on his page:



Regarding 71 between Elsinore and Temecula, it isn't really clear what was going with field signage prior to 1940.  I just finished a blog on the highway and found no reference to signage status prior to 1940.

[mgk920]

none of I-41  north of the Milwaukee-Racine county line in Wisconsin is on the original routing that US 41 took over from the original WI 15 back in the 920s.

Mike

I think the freeway / expressway section between Suamico and Abrams is built on the original alignment.  I am also pretty sure that the routing in Marinette is at least partially on the original.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, the original WI 15 followed a routing that was well east of the current US 41 in that area.  Yes, I agree that at least part of US 41 in Marinette, WI is likely on its original routing, but don't quote me on that as there are local roads in the area that area that are called 'OLD 15 Rd' and still have their nearly century-old concrete pavement as their driving surfaces.  It is all nowhere near I-41 though. 

Mike

[Bruce]

Washington's SR 121 is certainly a candidate. The original alignment in 1967 and the current (post-1991) alignment only share one thing in common: terminating on either side of an interchange with I-5.



Old alignment in orange, current in pink

[kurumi]

I overlooked CT 217.

Originally existed south of CT 66; now exists only north of it. (For a few years, it was both.)

[Henry]

I-90 through Chicago certainly is one. On the South Side, it ran on the then-Calumet Expressway to the Kingery-Borman combo eastward to IN, and west of the Loop, it ran on what is now I-290 while I-94 ran alone through the North Side. The Skyway was originally signed as I-94, before it and the Calumet switched designations.

[TEG24601]

I believe the following would count:


(WA) SR-526 - formerly part of SSH 1-I, was routed over 5th St, Mukilteo Blvd, and SW 41st St. from Mukilteo to Everett, to end at US 99.  In the early 60s it was part of the highway re-numbering, and given the designation of SR-526.  Later in the decade, it was moved from the routing above, to SW 84th St./Casino Rd. from SR-525 to US 99 (and later I-5), then a new expressway/freeway alignment was built to facilitate better traffic movements around Boeing's Paine Field facility.  In around 1999, the connection between the expressway portion and SW 84th St. in Mukilteo was realigned, to feed most traffic to the newly constructed Paine Field Blvd. (SR-525 Spur), preparing for planned rerouting of SR-525 to the ferry terminal.  As a result, what was once a single road route, now has a traffic signal and turn to follow the route, something it never technically had previously.


(WA) SR-529 - SR-529 was a replacement for US 99, when it became SR-99 and was truncated to SR-526/SR-527/I-5 in South Everett.  It ran from I-5, along Pacific Avenue to Broadway (former US 99), then followed Broadway back to I-5 in North Everett/Marysville.  When NS Everett was built, the route was changed to follow Pacific Ave. to Marine View Dr., which would connect at the main gate to the new Naval Station.  The routing was later changed to officially use Everett Ave. from I-5 to Marine View Dr, as it was better able to accommodate the traffic volumes.  However, the interchange between I-5 and Everett Ave is directional, and only connected to facilitate movements from and to the north.  So Pacific Ave was designated as SR-529 Spur, however it is unsigned, aside from the BSG indicting "To: SR-529", with no signs on the streets to facilitate connection to SR-529.


(IN) SR 25 around Delphi Indiana - This route has had no fewer than 3 routings through the city, and now bypasses the city on an Expressway Alignment.  The route entered originally from the East, over what it now Samuel Milroy Rd., before following Monroe St. to Washington St.  There it met with the old alignment for US 421/SR 39/SR 18, before exiting using the previous alignment to the SW.  Later it was routed over the entirety of a newly built Samuel Milroy Rd., to what is now Main St., and followed that through town.  Later Main St, was extended to the east, bypassing Samuel Milroy Rd., and providing a straight road to the city limits, before turning North to connect to the ROW, and re-aligning the NE end of Samuel Milroy Rd. (then called Old 25).  Main St. was realigned to connect to the newly constructed Hoosier Heartland Highway around 2008, routing SR 25 along the new alignment to Main St, then through town, and out to a newly constructed connection with the HHH SW of the city, before being fully realigned to bypass Delphi around 2011.  In the case of Monroe St. and Samuel Milroy Rd., there is little evidence on the ground that the route once used the roads, aside from some extra curbing and width on Monroe Rd., and Samuel Milroy Rd., literally being called Old 25 for almost 40 years.

[IowaTraveler]

There are two examples that come to mind for Iowa:

IA 316 was originally designated as a spur from IA 163 (US 163 at the time) south into Runnells. In 1981, IA 316 was extended south to IA 5. In 2003, the portion of IA 316 north of Runnells was decommissioned, turning the highway into a spur from IA 5 north to Runnells and removing the entirety of the original alignment.

I think the highway in Iowa that really exemplifies the Ship of Theseus concept is IA 175. In addition to not including any of its original alignment, IA 175 was gradually cobbled together by absorbing other highways, similar to how the Ship of Theseus was gradually replaced with new parts. The result is a highway that contains portions of several current and former highways but none of its original form.
When IA 175 was first created in October 1930, it was just a short 3/4-mile spur from US 65 into Hubbard. Less than two months later, IA 175 received its first westward extension to Radcliffe.
In 1935, IA 175 was extended westward to Jewell, replacing IA 195.
In 1937, IA 175 was extended westward to Stratford, replacing IA 197 and adding concurrencies with US 69 and IA 17.
In 1940, IA 175 was extended westward to Auburn, replacing IA 91, IA 47, IA 287, and IA 188, and adding concurrencies with US 169 and IA 4.
In 1948, IA 175 was extended westward to Onawa, replacing IA 35 and part of IA 37, and adding concurrencies with US 71, US 59, IA 141, and IA 37 (IA 175 had a redundant concurrency with the part of IA 37 it replaced until 1966).
In 1955, IA 175 was extended westward to the Nebraska border, replacing IA 165.
In 1969, IA 175 was finally extended eastward to US 63, replacing part of IA 57 and IA 58, and adding concurrencies with US 65 and IA 14. This also removed IA 175 from its original alignment into Hubbard.

Due to starting out as such an inconsequential highway, IA 175 has a much higher number than other state highways of its length.
Another interesting thing to note about IA 175 is how many concurrencies it has, another result of the way it was created. Out of the 14 highways that IA 175 intersects, IA 175 has a concurrency with 9 of them, including all 5 US highways that it intersects. Out of the 5 intersecting highways that don't have a concurrency with IA 175, 4 of them end at IA 175, leaving I-29 as the only intersecting highway that doesn't have a concurrency or terminus at IA 175.

[Road Hog]

Turns out CA 71 is a Highway of Theseus route.  None of the original 1934 alignment is presently part of the highway.

Looking at your post earlier from Gribblenation, would this be the correct 1934-1936 layout from the north terminus to the San Diego County line:

Garey Avenue south from what was then US 66 south through Pomona to Riverside Drive/current Chino Valley Freeway
An alignment subsumed by the Chino Valley Freeway southeast to Pipeline Avenue
Pipeline Avenue south to today's Route 142
Chino Hills Parkway east to Central Avenue
Central Avenue south to El Prado Road
El Prado Road southeast to Pine Avenue
Pine Avenue slight northeast to Route 83
Route 83 south to Pomona Rincon Road
Pomona Rincon Road (including section removed by Prado Dam construction) south to Auto Center Drive
Auto Center Drive to Pomona Road
Pomona Road to a non-existant crossing towards Yorba Street
Yorba Street to 6th Street in Corona (former US 91)
6th Street east to Main Street
Main Street south to Ontario Avenue
Ontario Avenue southeast to Temescal Canyon Road
Temescal Canyon Road southeast to Lake Street
Lake Street south to Lakeshore Drive
Lakeshore Drive southeast to Mission Trail
Mission Trail to Palomar Street
Palmoar Street south towards Washington Street in Wildomar
Washington Street to Ivy Street, then southbound again at Jefferson
Jefferson Avenue south to Old Town Front Street in Temecula
Front Street to Route 79
Route 79 to Rainbow Valley Road south

Worth noting, it isn't really clear where CA 71 ended after US 395 was extended into California.  There isn't much evidence to suggest it was routed south of Elsinore until around 1940 when it was extended past Temecula. 

The 1940 California State Highway map (on David Rumsey's site) does show the routing east along today's 79 and 371.

1938 shows 71 ending at Elsinore, and today's 371 as an unpaved road:
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California
(It also shows 83 along what later became 79, not sure if this was ever signed in the field)

CA 83 definitely was signed, one of the shields popped up on eBay a couple years ago.  Daniel captured an image of the eBay posting on his page:



Regarding 71 between Elsinore and Temecula, it isn't really clear what was going with field signage prior to 1940.  I just finished a blog on the highway and found no reference to signage status prior to 1940.

The 951 is a desired destination of mine once my ship (of Theseus?) comes in.

[US20IL64]

"...while I-94 ran alone through the North Side..." For the Edens X-way and Kennedy south of Wilson Av.

The segment from Edens Jct. to O'Hare was once IL-194, then that designation was extended to IL 53 to meet old I-90.*
IL-594 was X-way to O'Hare from Cumberland, now I-190.

* For a few years, the NW Tollway from 294 to IL-53 was "To 90" a temporary numbering before the Ike Extension was completed. Then IL-194, etc. Confusing? Yes.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Now I'm in France I remembered three National Routes that ended up with none of their original routings:
- N132: Started out as Bordeaux-St. Geours de Maremne along today's A63, by the mid 19th Century it had been extended to St. Jean Pied de Port. In 1949 it exchanged its original route with N10. (Deleted 1973)
- N140: Started out as Boismorand-Uzerche, by the mid 19th Century it had been rerouted to Figeac. In 1978 it was shifted to Cressensac Sarrazac to Rodez, retaking part of the Figeac route but none of its original one. (Deleted 2006)
- N202. Created in 1862 (shortly after the annexation of Savoy) as Thonon les Bains-Cluses, extended over the entire Route des Grandes Alpes to Nice in 1920. In 1978 it was shifted to go to Barreme instead, thus none of its original routing remained; this is also the only part retained after 2006.