District of Columbia

[1995hoo]

We had some discussion of the numbers earlier in this thread and the general consensus seemed to be that there is no legitimate reason for confusion but that if there were, the solution would be to make the tunnel I-995.

[cpzilliacus]

WTOP reports that the FHWA approved the Interstate renumbering for I-395 and I-695. There's a bit of editorializing about I-695 late in the article.

Edited to add: If you click through and expand the photo captions, you'll find the term "big green signs."

No one's going to miss I-695, but the introduction of I-195 will probably open the door to new confusion with another Baltimore 3di (in this case, it's the one that clearly runs east-west from Catonsville to the BWI Airport).

Doubtful.  There isn't much confusion between the two I-395s...and most of that is from clueless tourists who don't know how to read a map to begin with.

I-195 in Maryland is relatively short (2.15 miles in Baltimore County and 2.56 miles in Anne Arundel County), not as "major" as I-195's in New Jersey (34 miles) and Rhode Island and Massachusetts (44 miles).

I do not think a 195 in D.C. will lead to confusion.  Like I-195 in Florida, it will have a terminus at a signalized intersection at one end.

[Great Lakes Roads]

WTOP reports that the FHWA approved the Interstate renumbering for I-395 and I-695. There's a bit of editorializing about I-695 late in the article.

Edited to add: If you click through and expand the photo captions, you'll find the term "big green signs."

Question about the new exit numbers on the I-395 and I-195 sections: will they do mile-based or sequential? I am betting on the latter since it will be much easier to do rather than doing a whole renumbering with an alphabet soup of 1s and 2s.

[1995hoo]

Almost certain to be sequential. If you click the link I posted in Reply 1250 to some discussion earlier in this thread and you read the pages that follow that, you'll find some discussion of this issue from before. Most of us, with the notable exception of vdeane, agreed that sequential is more practical in that particular location.

[vdeane]

I still think that mile-based numbers could be done without too much alphabet soup - you just need to be willing to have some numbers off by 1 and to get away from the sequential mindset of assigning numbers willy-nilly to every single ramp, even when you're dealing with a bunch of half interchanges pointed in opposite directions.

Just look at I-91 in MA - most of the numbers decreased, yet there is very little alphabet soup.  Why?  Because MassDOT consolidated the numbers down (personally, I would have gone further and changed SB exit 1 to 2).  The result is a numbering system that (mostly) complies with the national standard (sequential isn't even an option in either the 2009 or draft 2020 MUTCDs) and which is much more elegant than the old sequential numbers.

[AlexandriaVA]

Solution in search of a problem, regarding sequential vs milage based. I don't even know what advantage it would convey, to say nothing of the non-intuitive numbering.

[froggie]

Mayor Bowser announced that DDOT will replace the collapsed pedestrian bridge over 295.

[1995hoo]

WTOP reports that the FHWA approved the Interstate renumbering for I-395 and I-695. There's a bit of editorializing about I-695 late in the article.

Edited to add: If you click through and expand the photo captions, you'll find the term "big green signs."

https://twitter.com/DildineWTOP/status/1412822883013906441

[The Ghostbuster]

Let us know when the signage is changed. Ditto with what exit sequence is chosen.

[mrsman]

I don't discount the threat of the anti-road folks.  They have a very political agenda and in the current political climate, their voice is getting stronger.  In the interests of climate change, they would love to have everyone give up their cars and bike or take transit everywhere.   Short of mandating that, they are happy to make driving as miserable as possible by promoting the cancellation of freeways, traffic calming, increased driving costs, and other measures.

All of this in support of the mythical idea that these sorts of measures will force people out of their cars and onto public transportation, which usually does not happen.

At the same time, even if I don't like the messenger, I can still like the message.  I don't think there is a risk of closing the more southerly sections of Beach drive or RC Pkwy, because they are currently open.  It is not yet part of the discussion, so i don't think it should be worried about.  RC Pkwy is known as the relief valve to relieve Connecticut Ave traffic as it necks down from 4 SB rush hour lanes near the zoo to 2 as it goes over the bridge.  It is also a busier section.

My guess is that if they succeed in closing permanently all or most of Beach Drive, then they will try to get added sections closed for good as well.

THe plan as is would still leave many parts open in order to drive to the parking lots within the park.  The southern part needs to be open to access the zoo.

The persons and groups in favor of closure don't care about drivers needing to transit the area to the east of the National Zoo.  In their stated opinion, those drivers should be taking the Metrorail Red Line (never mind that its operations will be severely impacted by construction projects (to include a long-term single-tracking operation) in the coming months) and never mind that their destinations may not be near a Metro station).

The National Park Service held their hearing online about the Beach Drive closure this past Thursday.

Links to the presentation, both the slides and the Q&A period that follows, as well as links to submit comments are also included.

https://parkplanning.nps.gov/beachdrive

[mrsman]

WTOP reports that the FHWA approved the Interstate renumbering for I-395 and I-695. There's a bit of editorializing about I-695 late in the article.

Edited to add: If you click through and expand the photo captions, you'll find the term "big green signs."

No one's going to miss I-695, but the introduction of I-195 will probably open the door to new confusion with another Baltimore 3di (in this case, it's the one that clearly runs east-west from Catonsville to the BWI Airport).

Doubtful.  There isn't much confusion between the two I-395s...and most of that is from clueless tourists who don't know how to read a map to begin with.

I-195 in Maryland is relatively short (2.15 miles in Baltimore County and 2.56 miles in Anne Arundel County), not as "major" as I-195's in New Jersey (34 miles) and Rhode Island and Massachusetts (44 miles).

I do not think a 195 in D.C. will lead to confusion.  Like I-195 in Florida, it will have a terminus at a signalized intersection at one end.

I think the new numbering scheme here would be highly beneficial.  FWIW, the major movement of thru-DC traffic goes from the 14th street bridge, along the Southeast-Southwest freeway and then continues on the 11th street bridge towards DC-295.  This entire movement should be one number, and under the proposal it will be one number: I-395.

Before the completion of what is now known as the DC-295/I-295/I-695 interchange, more of the traffic may have used NY Ave.  This may have justified the 3rd street tunnel spur continuting the I-395 number, but now it no longer makes sense.  The new I-195 will be used as a local connector, so those people in the north-central parts of Downtown (Union Station and Convention Center area) can have access to the I-395 freeway.   It will no longer be part of a regional connection.

With that in mind, perhaps DDOT, NPS, and any relevant authority could do more to prioritize the new movement over the old movement.  First, there is an imbalance on the northbound merger of traffic from NY Ave to the B-W parkway.  2 lanes from NY Ave on the left merge with 2 lanes from DC-295 on the right, and then right after the merger the right lane ends and a merge is forced and then about another mile north at Annapolis Rd, the new right lane also ends forcing another merge.  So basically, the heavier traffic from DC-295 is froced to merge to stay on the parkway, but NY Ave traffic can just drive through.  Given that NY Ave traffic is now a lower percentage of travel, the two lanes from NY Ave should merge into one lane before merging in to the BW Pkwy.  This will allow the left lane of DC-295 to not require merging, and give traffic in the right lane of DC-295 a whole mile to merge in to the remaining two lanes.

Secondly, southbound at this point, the signs should indicate that traffic for Downtown DC should stay on DC-295 and not use NY Ave.  It may also be helpful to downgrade the exit from two lanes to one lane to further emphasize the point.

Third, and I know this is a pipe dream, DC-295 between E Capitol and the 695/295 interchange is mostly two lanes in each direction (except for some of the interchange approach roads).  Because of this narrow 1.5 mile stretch, a lot of Downtown bound traffic is using East Capitol to reach DC-295, thereby bringing a lot more traffic through what is essentially a residential area.  The I-395 and the I-295 traffic each merges in with two lanes worth of traffic, so at least three lanes need to continue northward until at least the US 50 interchange to keep traffic moving. 

[Jmiles32]

With that in mind, perhaps DDOT, NPS, and any relevant authority could do more to prioritize the new movement over the old movement.  First, there is an imbalance on the northbound merger of traffic from NY Ave to the B-W parkway.  2 lanes from NY Ave on the left merge with 2 lanes from DC-295 on the right, and then right after the merger the right lane ends and a merge is forced and then about another mile north at Annapolis Rd, the new right lane also ends forcing another merge.  So basically, the heavier traffic from DC-295 is froced to merge to stay on the parkway, but NY Ave traffic can just drive through.  Given that NY Ave traffic is now a lower percentage of travel, the two lanes from NY Ave should merge into one lane before merging in to the BW Pkwy.  This will allow the left lane of DC-295 to not require merging, and give traffic in the right lane of DC-295 a whole mile to merge in to the remaining two lanes.

Secondly, southbound at this point, the signs should indicate that traffic for Downtown DC should stay on DC-295 and not use NY Ave.  It may also be helpful to downgrade the exit from two lanes to one lane to further emphasize the point.

Third, and I know this is a pipe dream, DC-295 between E Capitol and the 695/295 interchange is mostly two lanes in each direction (except for some of the interchange approach roads).  Because of this narrow 1.5 mile stretch, a lot of Downtown bound traffic is using East Capitol to reach DC-295, thereby bringing a lot more traffic through what is essentially a residential area.  The I-395 and the I-295 traffic each merges in with two lanes worth of traffic, so at least three lanes need to continue northward until at least the US 50 interchange to keep traffic moving.

It baffles me that six-laning DC-295 between Pennsylvania Avenue and East Capital Street would be considered a "pipe dream". This is not the southeast freeway we're talking about here. There is plenty of ROW and this stretch is only 1.5 miles long, maybe even less. Furthermore, the East Capital street and Pennsylvania Avenue interchange bridges would likely not have to be rebuilt. While the bridge over the railroad would have to be widened, I don't believe that it would be that difficult nor expensive to do so. Just don't understand how this isn't on the district's radar when it is clearly the number one reason why traffic on DC-295 is so frequently bad.

Regarding further movement improvements, I would argue that in addition to the merge improvements you mention, that the interchange at I-95/I-495 gets completely rebuilt. This outdated cloverleaf is now arguably the worst interchange in the entire region and causes delays/backups on both the beltway and parkway all the time. I suspect that Maryland was hoping that similarly to what was done on I-66, a PP3 HOT lane deal on MD-295/BW Parkway would result in this interchange (along with others and the equally as bad MD-32 cloverleaf) getting completely rebuilt at no cost to the state. Regardless, something needs to be done here soon.

[mrsman]

With that in mind, perhaps DDOT, NPS, and any relevant authority could do more to prioritize the new movement over the old movement.  First, there is an imbalance on the northbound merger of traffic from NY Ave to the B-W parkway.  2 lanes from NY Ave on the left merge with 2 lanes from DC-295 on the right, and then right after the merger the right lane ends and a merge is forced and then about another mile north at Annapolis Rd, the new right lane also ends forcing another merge.  So basically, the heavier traffic from DC-295 is froced to merge to stay on the parkway, but NY Ave traffic can just drive through.  Given that NY Ave traffic is now a lower percentage of travel, the two lanes from NY Ave should merge into one lane before merging in to the BW Pkwy.  This will allow the left lane of DC-295 to not require merging, and give traffic in the right lane of DC-295 a whole mile to merge in to the remaining two lanes.

Secondly, southbound at this point, the signs should indicate that traffic for Downtown DC should stay on DC-295 and not use NY Ave.  It may also be helpful to downgrade the exit from two lanes to one lane to further emphasize the point.

Third, and I know this is a pipe dream, DC-295 between E Capitol and the 695/295 interchange is mostly two lanes in each direction (except for some of the interchange approach roads).  Because of this narrow 1.5 mile stretch, a lot of Downtown bound traffic is using East Capitol to reach DC-295, thereby bringing a lot more traffic through what is essentially a residential area.  The I-395 and the I-295 traffic each merges in with two lanes worth of traffic, so at least three lanes need to continue northward until at least the US 50 interchange to keep traffic moving.

It baffles me that six-laning DC-295 between Pennsylvania Avenue and East Capital Street would be considered a "pipe dream". This is not the southeast freeway we're talking about here. There is plenty of ROW and this stretch is only 1.5 miles long, maybe even less. Furthermore, the East Capital street and Pennsylvania Avenue interchange bridges would likely not have to be rebuilt. While the bridge over the railroad would have to be widened, I don't believe that it would be that difficult nor expensive to do so. Just don't understand how this isn't on the district's radar when it is clearly the number one reason why traffic on DC-295 is so frequently bad.

Regarding further movement improvements, I would argue that in addition to the merge improvements you mention, that the interchange at I-95/I-495 gets completely rebuilt. This outdated cloverleaf is now arguably the worst interchange in the entire region and causes delays/backups on both the beltway and parkway all the time. I suspect that Maryland was hoping that similarly to what was done on I-66, a PP3 HOT lane deal on MD-295/BW Parkway would result in this interchange (along with others and the equally as bad MD-32 cloverleaf) getting completely rebuilt at no cost to the state. Regardless, something needs to be done here soon.

A lot of the issues are really endemic to DC.  They are still fighting the anti-road battles of the 1960s. 

The 695 freeway used to end at Pennsylvania Ave just before the Sousa Bridge.  To continue north, you exited on Penn, made a right turn at the signal and then made a left at the next signal (over the bridge) to get on the DC-295 north on-ramp.  There was no equivalent way of making the southbound movement, because the SB DC-295 off-ramp led only to eastbound Penn.  This was a problem that they considered fixing for years.  One approach would have been to complete the intended freeway, which would basically continue just north of the frieght RR tracks and merge in with DC-295 just south of East Capitol.  Doing that would have meant putting in the freeway connector right at the point where DC-295 widens to 3 NB lanes.  However, this was largely opposed by the anti-freeway crowd, even though there is plenty of room and no homes or businesses needed to be taken for the project.  The solution instead was to provide missing ramps at the I-295/I-695 interchange to allow for traffic to reach DC-295.  Not only does it add more mileage travelled, it also aggravated the bottleneck at the interchange.

DDOT basically supported the new interchange ramps as a way of diverting traffic away from NY Ave and Capitol Hill, but they simply did not finish the job. The widening of the southern part of DC-295 is absolutely necessary to keep regional traffic off of Independence Ave and NY Ave.

[tolbs17]

Why couldn't they build the I-95/I-495 bridge as a high rise bridge or a tunnel??? That way, it won't have to open at all.

[1995hoo]

Why couldn't they build the I-95/I-495 bridge as a high rise bridge or a tunnel??? That way, it won't have to open at all.

Partly due to cost. Partly due to the visual impact of a high bridge on the historic areas. Partly due to how far out the grades would have to extend on both sides of the river to make it work so that it wouldn't be impossibly steep for trucks.

As it was, there were a bunch of lawsuits prior to what they did build.

[NJRoadfan]

Has anyone here actually caught the new Wilson Bridge opening? Seems rare enough that it isn't a problem these days.

[tolbs17]

Why couldn't they build the I-95/I-495 bridge as a high rise bridge or a tunnel??? That way, it won't have to open at all.

Partly due to cost. Partly due to the visual impact of a high bridge on the historic areas. Partly due to how far out the grades would have to extend on both sides of the river to make it work so that it wouldn't be impossibly steep for trucks.

As it was, there were a bunch of lawsuits prior to what they did build.

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

[jmacswimmer]

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

Skipping over the fact that practically everyone on the forum knows this, what does that have to do with the Wilson Bridge being a drawbridge?

[tolbs17]

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

Skipping over the fact that practically everyone on the forum knows this, what does that have to do with the Wilson Bridge being a drawbridge?

When it was replaced in 2006 cause the old bridge was not meant to have I-95 and I-495 run together on it cause it would be overcrowded.

[1995hoo]

Why couldn't they build the I-95/I-495 bridge as a high rise bridge or a tunnel??? That way, it won't have to open at all.

Partly due to cost. Partly due to the visual impact of a high bridge on the historic areas. Partly due to how far out the grades would have to extend on both sides of the river to make it work so that it wouldn't be impossibly steep for trucks.

As it was, there were a bunch of lawsuits prior to what they did build.

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

That you, Captain Obvious? I've lived here long enough to remember the "OLD I-95" shields on I-395 in Virginia.

[jmacswimmer]

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

Skipping over the fact that practically everyone on the forum knows this, what does that have to do with the Wilson Bridge being a drawbridge?

When it was replaced in 2006 cause the old bridge was not meant to have I-95 and I-495 run together on it cause it would be overcrowded.

I mean, the Wilson Bridge would have needed replacement & widening regardless of where I-95 wound up....look no further than the overcrowded Legion Bridge on the other side, due for replacement under MDOT P3/VDOT 495 NEXT.

[AlexandriaVA]

Has anyone here actually caught the new Wilson Bridge opening? Seems rare enough that it isn't a problem these days.

I did, back in 2015. A French tall ship came to Alexandria in the late hours of the evening. I was working night shifts at that time, and it was my day off, so I figured why not go down to Old Town to see it. I was there to see the bridge as much as I did the ship.

This article summarizes the activity.

https://www.dbiservices.com/the-hermione-passes-through-woodrow-wilson-bridge/

[Mapmikey]

I-95 was supposed to go through DC where I-395 is right now.

Skipping over the fact that practically everyone on the forum knows this, what does that have to do with the Wilson Bridge being a drawbridge?

When it was replaced in 2006 cause the old bridge was not meant to have I-95 and I-495 run together on it cause it would be overcrowded.

I mean, the Wilson Bridge would have needed replacement & widening regardless of where I-95 wound up....look no further than the overcrowded Legion Bridge on the other side, due for replacement under MDOT P3/VDOT 495 NEXT.

Even if 95 had been built through DC, it is unlikely it would've drawn that much through traffic given the substandard alignment that exists now and no trucks (which were shaking the original 1961 Wilson Bridge to death) were going to pass through DC on it.

[AlexandriaVA]

Would trucks have been banned through the city (specifically on the section under the Mall/Capitol Hill), particularly post-9/11?

They would have been rerouted to the outer loop as a "Truck 95" detour or something like that, so pretty much how it is today.

[tolbs17]

And the current bridge is still against interstate highway standards.