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US routes in Memphis

Started by hbelkins, October 28, 2012, 03:14:32 PM

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roadman65

Quote from: hbelkins on December 13, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
In my experience, signage is terrible in Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga. The signage in Knoxville was improved when they signed a reroute of US 11/US 70, but there are still some omissions in places that make it difficult to follow numbered routes.

This may be a city thing in general. KYTC's District 7 has done a good job of signing in downtown Lexington, in large part due to some reroutings of US 27 and US 60, but in Louisville, it's awful.

Kind of figured that the adequate signage in 1990 could be gone 32 years later.  It seems many road departments don't place urgency anymore on shields and guide signs. Usually you may see a sign or two get installed, but mostly when a planned improvements project commenced. NJDOT did that with the Exit 52 sign bridge on I-295 when it failed a safety inspection.  It took till recently to replace that assembly that was removed ages ago.  And more recently NJDOT removed theI-280 WB guides at Exit 13 and replaced with tiny signs until NJDOT has their next overall sign replacements for I-280 to put back the standard guides there which is whenever.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


Urban Prairie Schooner

Quote from: hbelkins on December 13, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
In my experience, signage is terrible in Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga. The signage in Knoxville was improved when they signed a reroute of US 11/US 70, but there are still some omissions in places that make it difficult to follow numbered routes.

This may be a city thing in general. KYTC's District 7 has done a good job of signing in downtown Lexington, in large part due to some reroutings of US 27 and US 60, but in Louisville, it's awful.

It seems that urban routings of numbered non-Interstate roads are a low signage priority in many states.  LaDOTD has improved signage of rural routes since the new state shield style was adopted in 2008, but urban signage is skimpy or sometimes missing altogether.  I suspect it is a lesser priority since most people in cities are navigating by street name, not by route number.  Kinds of calls into question the need for numbered surface routes in many cities.

roadman65

Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on December 14, 2022, 03:33:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 13, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
In my experience, signage is terrible in Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga. The signage in Knoxville was improved when they signed a reroute of US 11/US 70, but there are still some omissions in places that make it difficult to follow numbered routes.

This may be a city thing in general. KYTC's District 7 has done a good job of signing in downtown Lexington, in large part due to some reroutings of US 27 and US 60, but in Louisville, it's awful.

It seems that urban routings of numbered non-Interstate roads are a low signage priority in many states.  LaDOTD has improved signage of rural routes since the new state shield style was adopted in 2008, but urban signage is skimpy or sometimes missing altogether.  I suspect it is a lesser priority since most people in cities are navigating by street name, not by route number.  Kinds of calls into question the need for numbered surface routes in many cities.

That's why Indy has all routes on its Beltway.  Heck even Fort Wayne has US  24, US 30, and US 33 on the interstates to avoid the awkwardness of urban navigation.

Our Nations Capital is one that should realign both US 1 and US 50 to I-495 like INDOT has as DCDOT removed all signage for those routes in Washington.  RI too should relocate US 1 to I-95 through Providence as well as good luck following it the through the city.

It's a shame that cities have neglected urban signage throughout America.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Mapmikey

I believe the Indiana examples are related to the cities not wanting to have routes through their cities- numerous cities have their state/US routes directed around them.

hbelkins

Quote from: Mapmikey on December 15, 2022, 09:40:41 PM
I believe the Indiana examples are related to the cities not wanting to have routes through their cities- numerous cities have their state/US routes directed around them.

Wonder if Indiana's statewide mileage cap plays a role in that?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

froggie

^ That's part of it, but as I recall from the time, INDOT has also been working to reduce their mileage and resultant maintenance responsibilities regardless of the mileage cap.

formulanone

Quote from: froggie on December 16, 2022, 04:35:09 PM
^ That's part of it, but as I recall from the time, INDOT has also been working to reduce their mileage and resultant maintenance responsibilities regardless of the mileage cap.

caltransing /KAL-tranz-ing/ (v.) doing as much as possible to offload state maintenance to cities, towns, and counties. Can be pronounced /kal-tran-ZING/ if the joke is good enough.

civilengineeringnerd

i generally don't understand the lack of signage to begin with. like aren't signs cheap to replace? or is there some bureaucratic redtape making it unnecessarily expensive to replace signage?
Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

MikeTheActuary

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
i generally don't understand the lack of signage to begin with. like aren't signs cheap to replace? or is there some bureaucratic redtape making it unnecessarily expensive to replace signage?

I believe bureaucratic apathy is the cause.

The extent to which that apathy is the result of limited utility for navigation (e.g., if you're driving Memphis city streets, you're most likely to be relying on street names anyway), or the general disdain the state government has for most things "Memphis", is debatable.

hbelkins

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on December 28, 2022, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
i generally don't understand the lack of signage to begin with. like aren't signs cheap to replace? or is there some bureaucratic redtape making it unnecessarily expensive to replace signage?

I believe bureaucratic apathy is the cause.

The extent to which that apathy is the result of limited utility for navigation (e.g., if you're driving Memphis city streets, you're most likely to be relying on street names anyway), or the general disdain the state government has for most things "Memphis", is debatable.

Not just Memphis. In my experience, Chattanooga and Nashville are just as bad, and Knoxville used to be.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

freebrickproductions

Apologies for the bump, but I'm currently planning a trip out to Texas in early February and will be passing through Memphis on the way back. Since I still need to get it, I'm thinking of driving the western end of US 72 so I can fully clench my closes 2-digit US Route...
Does US 72 (still) start at US 51/Bellevue Boulevard?
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

74/171FAN

Quote from: freebrickproductions on January 14, 2024, 04:37:34 PM
Apologies for the bump, but I'm currently planning a trip out to Texas in early February and will be passing through Memphis on the way back. Since I still need to get it, I'm thinking of driving the western end of US 72 so I can fully clench my closes 2-digit US Route...
Does US 72 (still) start at US 51/Bellevue Boulevard?

The 2002 map indicates such.

I assume that it is unsigned west of here. 
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

US 89

Quote from: hbelkins on December 28, 2022, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on December 28, 2022, 08:53:44 AM
Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
i generally don't understand the lack of signage to begin with. like aren't signs cheap to replace? or is there some bureaucratic redtape making it unnecessarily expensive to replace signage?

I believe bureaucratic apathy is the cause.

The extent to which that apathy is the result of limited utility for navigation (e.g., if you're driving Memphis city streets, you're most likely to be relying on street names anyway), or the general disdain the state government has for most things "Memphis", is debatable.

Not just Memphis. In my experience, Chattanooga and Nashville are just as bad, and Knoxville used to be.

Yep. In fact, I wrote a whole post ranting about the sorry state of signage in Chattanooga three years ago:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27960.msg2546691#msg2546691

formulanone

Quote from: 74/171FAN on January 14, 2024, 05:17:02 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on January 14, 2024, 04:37:34 PM
Apologies for the bump, but I'm currently planning a trip out to Texas in early February and will be passing through Memphis on the way back. Since I still need to get it, I'm thinking of driving the western end of US 72 so I can fully clench my closes 2-digit US Route...
Does US 72 (still) start at US 51/Bellevue Boulevard?

The 2002 map indicates such.

I assume that it is unsigned west of here. 

No sign back in July 2022; a zero mile marker only:

US72 TN23 End MM0 at US64 US70 West US79 South by formulanone, on Flickr

Mapmikey

US 72 has a posting west of here EB on the I-240 overpass - https://maps.app.goo.gl/hXRW1b7QFm1ypksq6

The TN 23 MM 0 sign is irrelevant. 

But US 72 does end at US 51.

roadman65

When Arkansas decides it wants US 78 in its state, how will its routing be in Memphis?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

lordsutch

Quote from: roadman65 on January 14, 2024, 09:14:36 PM
When Arkansas decides it wants US 78 in its state, how will its routing be in Memphis?

TDOT successfully petitioned AASHTO to move it off the downtown routing to follow Crump Blvd from I-55 to Lamar Avenue.

The Ghostbuster

I think the US 78 extension is a stupid proposal. First, the extension into Arkansas is a convoluted one. Second, US 78 has connected Memphis, TN with Charleston, SC since the US Highway System debuted in 1926. And third, the extension should be rejected by AASHTO.

US 89

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 14, 2024, 09:32:03 PM
Second, US 78 has connected Memphis, TN with Charleston, SC since the US Highway System debuted in 1926.

So what? Changes can happen... also, it still connects those two cities.

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 14, 2024, 09:32:03 PM
And third, the extension should be rejected by AASHTO.

Too late.

bugo

Quote from: Mapmikey on January 14, 2024, 08:34:20 PM
US 72 has a posting west of here EB on the I-240 overpass - https://maps.app.goo.gl/hXRW1b7QFm1ypksq6

The US 70 and 79 shields have fallen down. This view from February, 2017 shows the former 4 shield assembly when it was intact.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PYeqddbvkYs1EYTV9

This image from May, 2018 shows the US 70 and 79 shields have come loose. The two shields were removed sometime between December, 2018 and May, 2019.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E2yCV6pXE6Rqv7U19
Nobody is on the level of the devil.

bwana39

Quote from: civilengineeringnerd on December 27, 2022, 09:56:39 PM
i generally don't understand the lack of signage to begin with. like aren't signs cheap to replace? or is there some bureaucratic redtape making it unnecessarily expensive to replace signage?

Cheap is a relative term. Probably $100 each to make the square reassurance / intersection shields. From $200 to $500 labor to replace them on existing hardware. More to replace poles, mounts, etc.

These "Simple" signs could run $1,000.00 or more each. A drop in the bucket and indeed cheap when contrasted against most other road / highway repairs and construction, but still not negligible.  There COULD even be $1,000 to $1,500 of engineering just to replace them in addition to the actual cost.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

MikieTimT

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 14, 2024, 09:32:03 PM
I think the US 78 extension is a stupid proposal. First, the extension into Arkansas is a convoluted one. Second, US 78 has connected Memphis, TN with Charleston, SC since the US Highway System debuted in 1926. And third, the extension should be rejected by AASHTO.

But, then Arkansas won't get more federal monies!

The Ghostbuster

Are the state highway routes that penetrate the Memphis area signposted any better than the US Highways?

bwana39

Quote from: MikieTimT on February 06, 2024, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 14, 2024, 09:32:03 PM
I think the US 78 extension is a stupid proposal. First, the extension into Arkansas is a convoluted one. Second, US 78 has connected Memphis, TN with Charleston, SC since the US Highway System debuted in 1926. And third, the extension should be rejected by AASHTO.

But, then Arkansas won't get more federal monies!

Too late...
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

hbelkins

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 06, 2024, 12:11:26 PM
Are the state highway routes that penetrate the Memphis area signposted any better than the US Highways?

Given that most of them are hidden concurrencies with the US routes, and given Tennessee's track record of signing standalone state routes in other cities, probably not.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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