PA Turnpike News

[PHLBOS]

Another year, another toll increase.  This one, however, is much larger than usual (at least for E-ZPass customers)

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2015/07/07/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-tolls-go-up-for-eighth-in-a-row/stories/201507070174

Act 44 strikes again.

Here's a similar article from today's (7/8) Philadelphia Inquirer with some additional toll information regarding the new westbound toll gantry for the Future I-95 Southbound section in Bucks County.  Interestingly, the PA Turnpike's website mentions the upcoming toll increase for next year but not the toll rate for the new westbound AET gantry.  (Bold emphasis added for below-quote)

Also, an additional toll will be collected from westbound vehicles at a new all-electronic toll plaza in Bucks County, at the eastern end of the turnpike.

That toll will be $5 for passenger vehicles using E-ZPass and $6.75 for vehicles without E-ZPass. A bill will be mailed to the owner of a non-E-ZPass vehicle, based on its license plate.

One word (worth repeating) comment for such: Extortion, Extortion, Extortion!

While I understand the alleged need to place a toll gantry (even an AET type) at the PA side of the Delaware River crossing (yes, I'm aware that a new parallel span will be built); but charging the same if not more than what the DRPA toll facilities (side bar, the just introduced a reduced $4 toll rate for those E-ZPass users taking more than 18 westbound trips/month) further south is clearly over the top... especially if annual Act 44-related toll increases continue.

Hardest hit, money-wise, will be those coming from US 130 on Jersey side (NJTP Exit 6A).  They already pay up to $3 ($2.20 E-ZPass Off-Peak rate for NJ accounts only) just to get on the westbound Turnpike bridge to head into the Keystone State.  Assuming that this new AET gantry will be placed where the current East Gate/Delaware River Bridge toll plaza is (thereby giving nobody coming from NJ a chance to bypass the new AET); motorists from US 130 will be paying between $7.50 to $9.75 total in westbound tolls.  While such rates may be a comparative bargain in the metropolitan NYC area; such is flat-out scandalous for the Delaware Valley.  Especially when such is located between a bridge that charges a $2 westbound toll (the 2-lane Burlington-Bristol/PA 413/CR 541) and the US 1/Trenton/Morrisville bridge charges a $1 (with a 16-trip/month E-ZPass discount toll of $0.60). 

While I am hoping that the Philadelphia Inquirer got their toll information wrong (since the PA Turnpike's website does not yet mention the new AET toll rate for that proposed ganrtry); I'm not too optimistic.  If true, then people on both sides of the river need to write a letter of protest to the PTC and (for those on the PA side) to their State Representative and Senator.

If a toll has to be implemented for westbounders; it should be competitively priced (IMHO, no more than $3 E-ZPass/$3.50 by mail) and exempt from any/all future Act 44 increases.

Rant over.

I think everyone in PA might be missing something here....can't you use US 30 as a shunpike to it? Why don't more people use US 30 as a shunpike (If you want to go to Harrisburg, take US 30 to I-83)?

US 30 is not a continuous highway in the Keystone State whereas the Turnpike is.  So using it as a shunpike route can add more travel time depending on where one's origin & destination are.

[roadman65]

If the PANYNJ can charge what they do between NJ and NY, and NYC's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority can charge what they have been on their crossings, I guess PTC can overcharge as well.

Then we cannot forget Delaware either, who had as of last year the most expensive toll rate per mile on I-95.

Monkey see, monkey does.

[PHLBOS]

If the PANYNJ can charge what they do between NJ and NY, and NYC's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority can charge what they have been on their crossings, I guess PTC can overcharge as well.

Again, and I stated such earlier, this is not metropolitan NYC/Hudson River Crossings we're talking about here where there's (near-)monopoly-agency control here.  This is an area that's just north of DRPA territory (although they tried & failed to get control over the Tacony-Palmyra and Burlington-Bristol Bridges during the mid-90s, thank goodness) and is just south of DRJTBC (Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission) territory.  I can easily see added traffic along the Burlington-Bristol, Trenton-Morrisville and even the Scudder Falls Bridges as a result of this proposed extortion toll.

Then we cannot forget Delaware either, who had as of last year the most expensive toll rate per mile on I-95.

Apples & oranges comparsion; that toll (also an extortion rate IMHO) doesn't involve a river crossing and can be easily bypassed.

[noelbotevera]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

[Rothman]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Pfft.  Demand's too inelastic to ever see that happen.

[noelbotevera]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Pfft.  Demand's too inelastic to ever see that happen.

I don't know...look at Harrisburg's roads. They are a disgrace to this country.

[Rothman]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Pfft.  Demand's too inelastic to ever see that happen.

I don't know...look at Harrisburg's roads. They are a disgrace to this country.

Huh? 

[Zeffy]

$5 to cross the Delaware River (not counting the New Jersey Turnpike toll)? Fucking ridiculous. It's going to be even more ridiculous when (future I-295 / ) I-95 north of Trenton's crossing via the Scudder Falls Bridge will become tolled. I'd rather go through Trenton, take one of the free bridges into Pennsylvania, hop on US 1, take that to I-95, and continue from there.

[roadman65]

If the PANYNJ can charge what they do between NJ and NY, and NYC's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority can charge what they have been on their crossings, I guess PTC can overcharge as well.

Again, and I stated such earlier, this is not metropolitan NYC/Hudson River Crossings we're talking about here where there's (near-)monopoly-agency control here.  This is an area that's just north of DRPA territory (although they tried & failed to get control over the Tacony-Palmyra and Burlington-Bristol Bridges during the mid-90s, thank goodness) and is just south of DRJTBC (Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission) territory.  I can easily see added traffic along the Burlington-Bristol, Trenton-Morrisville and even the Scudder Falls Bridges as a result of this proposed extortion toll.

Then we cannot forget Delaware either, who had as of last year the most expensive toll rate per mile on I-95.

Apples & oranges comparsion; that toll (also an extortion rate IMHO) doesn't involve a river crossing and can be easily bypassed.

But if the PANYNJ can charge outrageous tolls, why can't the PTC?  Just like when Disney World charges over 100 bucks a pop, the other theme parks follow suit.

Bottom line is if one person charges ridiculous prices and gets away with it, others will soon follow.  My point was not about the different politics between NYC and SE PA, just to point out its old news to jack up the prices anyplace now.

[noelbotevera]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Pfft.  Demand's too inelastic to ever see that happen.

I don't know...look at Harrisburg's roads. They are a disgrace to this country.

Huh? 

Harrisburg's freeways and freeway bridges are pretty substandard, and are only four-six lanes wide. Therei s also tight weaving because of how many exits there are tightly packed together (this is true for I-83 SB from US 322 WB from the Eisenhower Interchange - if you want to get on Paxton Street from US 322, you have to make a hard weave in 3/8 of a mile to exit). They are also pretty bumpy too, that they're gonna become Hersheypark.

[PHLBOS]

It's going to be even more ridiculous when (future I-295 / ) I-95 north of Trenton's crossing via the Scudder Falls Bridge will become tolled.

What agency will be tolling that upgraded crossing?  I'm assuming that it will be the DRJTBC (which tolls the US 1 crossing).  Hopefully, they'll have the decency to show some restraint with the future toll rate.  IMHO, that new crossing (Scudder Falls) should not have a PA-bound toll higher than $3 (for passenger vehicles).  All other DRJTBC tolled crossings are currently only $1.

[ekt8750]

It's going to be even more ridiculous when (future I-295 / ) I-95 north of Trenton's crossing via the Scudder Falls Bridge will become tolled.

What agency will be tolling that upgraded crossing?  I'm assuming that it will be the DRJTBC (which tolls the US 1 crossing).  Hopefully, they'll have the decency to show some restraint with the future toll rate.  IMHO, that new crossing (Scudder Falls) should not have a PA-bound toll higher than $3 (for passenger vehicles).  All other DRJTBC tolled crossings are currently only $1.

DRJTBC owns the Scudder Falls Bridge. Also I believe the tolls are going up to fund the bridge widening (or are they flat out replacing it?) project so hopefully they go away after its paid for. *snickers*

[cpzilliacus]

But if the PANYNJ can charge outrageous tolls, why can't the PTC?  Just like when Disney World charges over 100 bucks a pop, the other theme parks follow suit.

Bottom line is if one person charges ridiculous prices and gets away with it, others will soon follow.  My point was not about the different politics between NYC and SE PA, just to point out its old news to jack up the prices anyplace now.

Where are the dollars raised by these outrageous toll rates going?  In the case of NY MTA and the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission, most of it is not going to benefit the roads, bridges and tunnels for which the tolls are charged.  Instead, the dollars are being diverted to transit subsidies (some goes to capital projects, but I suspect most of it ends up in the compensation packages (wages, health care and pensions) of unionized transit workers).

[cpzilliacus]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Act 44 was superseded by Act 89, but the tolls will keep going up to fund projects that have nothing to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.  You can read a summary here.

Relevant part (from the page above), with emphasis added:

Act 89 substantially altered the Commission's funding obligations to PennDOT. While the Commission's payment obligation remains at $450 million annually through Fiscal Year 2022, none of the payments are dedicated to highways and bridges. Instead, all $450 million is allocated to support transit capital, operating, multi-modal and other non-highway programs. Beginning in Fiscal Year 2023, the annual payment obligations decreases to $50 million until the payment obligations ends in 2057.

[Rothman]

Act 44 is the next Cherynobyl disaster...sooner or later people will find the turnpike too expensive, even for EZPass, and then byebye PTC.

Pfft.  Demand's too inelastic to ever see that happen.

I don't know...look at Harrisburg's roads. They are a disgrace to this country.

Huh? 

Harrisburg's freeways and freeway bridges are pretty substandard, and are only four-six lanes wide. Therei s also tight weaving because of how many exits there are tightly packed together (this is true for I-83 SB from US 322 WB from the Eisenhower Interchange - if you want to get on Paxton Street from US 322, you have to make a hard weave in 3/8 of a mile to exit). They are also pretty bumpy too, that they're gonna become Hersheypark.

Okay, but I'm not sure what that has to do with traffic demand on the PA Turnpike and your assertion that increased tolls could lead to PTC going the way of the dodo.

[PHLBOS]

Act 44 was superseded by Act 89, but the tolls will keep going up to fund projects that have nothing to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Slight correction, Act 89 amended (not superseded) Act 44 per the opening paragraph of your posted-link (bold emphasis added).

The General Assembly of Pennsylvania approved Act 44 in July 2007 that was subsequently amended by Act 89 in November 2013.

If the PANYNJ can charge what they do between NJ and NY, and NYC's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority can charge what they have been on their crossings, I guess PTC can overcharge as well.

One difference between the PANYNJ and the PTC is that PANYNJ covers a much smaller (but lucrative) territory (mainly the Hudson River corridor) and whereas the PTC's highway network extends statewide.

Just like when Disney World charges over 100 bucks a pop, the other theme parks follow suit.

Disney World and other theme parks are a pleasure destinations; toll facilities, by and large, are not.

Bottom line is if one person charges ridiculous prices and gets away with it, others will soon follow.

Yes and no.  A year or two ago, RITBA tried to pull a fast one with implementing a toll (via AET gantries) for the replacement Sakonnet River Bridge (Route 24) and charged NYC-like rates for out-of-state drivers (including neighboring MA).  Thankfully, the state intervened and RITBA were beaten back and the temporary 10-cent tolls on the gantries were dropped (though the gantries themselves are still present IIRC).

That was one case where NYC/PANYNJ-style toll rate tactics were, thankfully, aborted.

Hopefully, similar can happen here; especially since the Future I-95 section of the PA Turnpike (between the I-95 interchange and the Delaware River Bridge) was originally planned not to have tolls placed anywhere.  While I don't expect the new westbound AET gantry will be dropped/withdrawn following a public outcry/protest over the pending toll rates; IMHO, the PTC could be forced/pressured (maybe it's time to involve the Feds since such is part of a quasi-Interstate completion project) to lower that AET toll rate enough to be reasonably competetive.  While one should not expect a $1-$2 toll; $5+* is outrageous.

*Assuming this AET gantry is subject to Act 44 toll increases.

[odditude]

It's going to be even more ridiculous when (future I-295 / ) I-95 north of Trenton's crossing via the Scudder Falls Bridge will become tolled.

What agency will be tolling that upgraded crossing?  I'm assuming that it will be the DRJTBC (which tolls the US 1 crossing).  Hopefully, they'll have the decency to show some restraint with the future toll rate.  IMHO, that new crossing (Scudder Falls) should not have a PA-bound toll higher than $3 (for passenger vehicles).  All other DRJTBC tolled crossings are currently only $1.

DRJTBC owns the Scudder Falls Bridge. Also I believe the tolls are going up to fund the bridge widening (or are they flat out replacing it?) project so hopefully they go away after its paid for. *snickers*

The bridge is being replaced, and DRJTBC already said the tolls won't be going away.

[roadman65]

Act 44 was superseded by Act 89, but the tolls will keep going up to fund projects that have nothing to do with the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

Slight correction, Act 89 amended (not superseded) Act 44 per the opening paragraph of your posted-link (bold emphasis added).

The General Assembly of Pennsylvania approved Act 44 in July 2007 that was subsequently amended by Act 89 in November 2013.

If the PANYNJ can charge what they do between NJ and NY, and NYC's Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority can charge what they have been on their crossings, I guess PTC can overcharge as well.

One difference between the PANYNJ and the PTC is that PANYNJ covers a much smaller (but lucrative) territory (mainly the Hudson River corridor) and whereas the PTC's highway network extends statewide.

Just like when Disney World charges over 100 bucks a pop, the other theme parks follow suit.

Disney World and other theme parks are a pleasure destinations; toll facilities, by and large, are not.

Bottom line is if one person charges ridiculous prices and gets away with it, others will soon follow.

Yes and no.  A year or two ago, RITBA tried to pull a fast one with implementing a toll (via AET gantries) for the replacement Sakonnet River Bridge (Route 24) and charged NYC-like rates for out-of-state drivers (including neighboring MA).  Thankfully, the state intervened and RITBA were beaten back and the temporary 10-cent tolls on the gantries were dropped (though the gantries themselves are still present IIRC).

That was one case where NYC/PANYNJ-style toll rate tactics were, thankfully, aborted.

Hopefully, similar can happen here; especially since the Future I-95 section of the PA Turnpike (between the I-95 interchange and the Delaware River Bridge) was originally planned not to have tolls placed anywhere.  While I don't expect the new westbound AET gantry will be dropped/withdrawn following a public outcry/protest over the pending toll rates; IMHO, the PTC could be forced/pressured (maybe it's time to involve the Feds since such is part of a quasi-Interstate completion project) to lower that AET toll rate enough to be reasonably competetive.  While one should not expect a $1-$2 toll; $5+* is outrageous.

*Assuming this AET gantry is subject to Act 44 toll increases.

Disney is just an example of what one agency does that another follows.  Whether its public or private, it seems that all people of today copy one another!  If one toll agency does it so will another large or small!

Now granted that may not be the reason here, but do not be surprised if it is as well.  Its human nature now to charge more especially if it puts a burden on the customers who have to pay.

[PHLBOS]

FWIW, the current 358-359 (Delaware Valley/Delaware River Bridge) toll is $2.15 cash/$1.46 E-ZPass.  While such will go away for eastbounders; westbounder will get hosed with the new toll rates (assuming that such info. (from the Philly Inquirer) is indeed correct).

Disney is just an example of what one agency does that another follows.  Whether its public or private, it seems that all people of today copy one another!  If one toll agency does it so will another large or small!

Agree on the principle/concept of such; disagree on the application.  Most people can easily avoid Disney if they don't want to pay those prices; such is not always true for the motoring public and trucking industry.

Now granted that may not be the reason here, but do not be surprised if it is as well.  Its human nature now to charge more especially if it puts a burden on the customers who have to pay.

Again.  We're not talking about something that most people can do without.  Additionally, we're not talking about a region that has an overall higher cost-of-living (NYC i.e. where everything "supposedly" costs more) and where one agency literally controls every river crossing.  We're talking about the modification of the toll structure/schedule for one particular existing crossing that is proposed to be overpriced.

And unlike past PA Turnpike toll increases (Act 44-related and otherwise); this new gantry directly targets those coming from the Garden State, especially locals from Florence with a significant percentage (at least 300%) toll increase.

Maybe, the best solution here would be to have either DRJTBC or even DRPA take over that particular proposed toll gantry (& bridge project) and eliminate the westbound toll from the NJTP/US 130 interchange.  That way the toll rates will, at least, remain constant every year and won't be subject to the whims of the PTC & Act 44.

[jeffandnicole]

It's going to be even more ridiculous when (future I-295 / ) I-95 north of Trenton's crossing via the Scudder Falls Bridge will become tolled.

What agency will be tolling that upgraded crossing?  I'm assuming that it will be the DRJTBC (which tolls the US 1 crossing).  Hopefully, they'll have the decency to show some restraint with the future toll rate.  IMHO, that new crossing (Scudder Falls) should not have a PA-bound toll higher than $3 (for passenger vehicles).  All other DRJTBC tolled crossings are currently only $1.

DRJTBC owns the Scudder Falls Bridge. Also I believe the tolls are going up to fund the bridge widening (or are they flat out replacing it?) project so hopefully they go away after its paid for. *snickers*

The bridge is being replaced, and DRJTBC already said the tolls won't be going away.

The bridge replacement project has grown quiet over the past few years, although on their website it states that they expect construction to start in 2017.  They will be doing some surface repair work on the existing bridge over the next few months due to continuing and problematic pothole and other pavement issues.  https://www.drjtbc.org/default.aspx?pageid=3595

Other than stating tolling will be all-electronic, they haven't stated what the toll will be.  The DRJTBC is probably one of the best in terms of keeping costs constrained, so hopefully they will toll this at a reasonable rate.  They did mess up a number of years ago when they hiked tolls on US 1 a bit too much, and caused some massive traffic jams of people exiting before the bridge to use one of the free bridges from Trenton to Morrisville. The US 1 toll eventually was slightly reduced. 

A detour around Scudder Falls will be quite a bit longer, and the best option - over the Calhoun Street Bridge - involves a narrower bridge and a longer drive thru Morrisville.  But considering these people currently have a free ride, they're not going to be happy no matter what the toll will be.

[ekt8750]

FWIW, the current 358-359 (Delaware Valley/Delaware River Bridge) toll is $2.15 cash/$1.46 E-ZPass.  While such will go away for eastbounders; westbounder will get hosed with the new toll rates (assuming that such info. (from the Philly Inquirer) is indeed correct).

Disney is just an example of what one agency does that another follows.  Whether its public or private, it seems that all people of today copy one another!  If one toll agency does it so will another large or small!

Agree on the principle/concept of such; disagree on the application.  Most people can easily avoid Disney if they don't want to pay those prices; such is not always true for the motoring public and trucking industry.

Now granted that may not be the reason here, but do not be surprised if it is as well.  Its human nature now to charge more especially if it puts a burden on the customers who have to pay.

Again.  We're not talking about something that most people can do without.  Additionally, we're not talking about a region that has an overall higher cost-of-living (NYC i.e. where everything "supposedly" costs more) and where one agency literally controls every river crossing.  We're talking about the modification of the toll structure/schedule for one particular existing crossing that is proposed to be overpriced.

And unlike past PA Turnpike toll increases (Act 44-related and otherwise); this new gantry directly targets those coming from the Garden State, especially locals from Florence with a significant percentage (at least 300%) toll increase.

Maybe, the best solution here would be to have either DRJTBC or even DRPA take over that particular proposed toll gantry (& bridge project) and eliminate the westbound toll from the NJTP/US 130 interchange.  That way the toll rates will, at least, remain constant every year and won't be subject to the whims of the PTC & Act 44.

DRJTBC or Burlington Bridge Commission. DRPA can piss off. Last thing anyone needs is them getting another bridge to maintain.

[PHLBOS]

DRJTBC or Burlington Bridge Commission. DRPA can piss off. Last thing anyone needs is them getting another bridge to maintain.

Fair enough, I only mentioned agencies that presently toll large bridges.

[ekt8750]

DRJTBC or Burlington Bridge Commission. DRPA can piss off. Last thing anyone needs is them getting another bridge to maintain.

Fair enough, I only mentioned agencies that presently toll large bridges.

True. I just don't want them taking over and making drop from cruising down either turnpike at 65-70 to crawling over the bridge at a miserable 45MPH cause their cops get bored.

[jeffandnicole]

DRJTBC or Burlington Bridge Commission. DRPA can piss off. Last thing anyone needs is them getting another bridge to maintain.

Fair enough, I only mentioned agencies that presently toll large bridges.

True. I just don't want them taking over and making drop from cruising down either turnpike at 65-70 to crawling over the bridge at a miserable 45MPH cause their cops get bored.

While that PA/NJ Turnpike bridge is signed at 50 mph, I don't believe either state's cops are interested in ticketing anyone anywhere near that speed.

[ekt8750]

DRJTBC or Burlington Bridge Commission. DRPA can piss off. Last thing anyone needs is them getting another bridge to maintain.

Fair enough, I only mentioned agencies that presently toll large bridges.

True. I just don't want them taking over and making drop from cruising down either turnpike at 65-70 to crawling over the bridge at a miserable 45MPH cause their cops get bored.

While that PA/NJ Turnpike bridge is signed at 50 mph, I don't believe either state's cops are interested in ticketing anyone anywhere near that speed.

Yeah I don't think I've ever seen either jurisdiction patrolling the bridge. I may have seen someone pulled over on the Jersey side well before the bridge but that's it.