PA Turnpike News

[noelbotevera]

I'm using US 30. I'm not paying that much.

[jpi]

You mean your dad is using US 30

[jeffandnicole]

Well, I just came across an interesting article in Lancaster Online, if this holds true there is going to be a TON of traffic using I-80, US 22 and I-68 to get from eastern PA to points west and vice versa in the next 20 years
http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/to-cross-pa-on-the-turnpike-it-s-possible-by/article_2d9be5d4-501c-11e6-81cc-439e7e7ee217.html

Newspaper Reporters Gone Wild. The irresponsible reporter took it upon himself to assume 6% increases for a random period of time.

While it's alarmng sounding, I wouldn't put too much faith into the report.

[PHLBOS]

Signage update: some new overhead BGS' on olive-green painted pipe gantries are now erected along the PA Turnpike (I-76) between Harrisburg West (I-83) and the Carlisle (US 11) interchanges as part of the ongoing widening and overpass replacement (at Carlisle) projects.  Clearview text is still being used but only for the control cities.  These BGS' were likely fabricated prior to the Feds putting the kibosh on Clearview font usage.

[cpzilliacus]

Retired Pittsburgh Post-Gazette transportation beat reporter Joe Grata torches Pennsylvania elected officials, PennDOT and PTC for Act 44/Act 89 in this op-ed: Pa. continues its live-for-today tradition with transit funds

State lawmakers and ex-Gov. Ed Rendell began feeding off of Pennsylvania Turnpike revenues several years before requiring the agency to pay a $450 million-a-year subsidy for public transit. Those payments have helped drive the turnpike's debt to an unthinkable $11 billion.

But the 2007 law that remains responsible for toll increases for nine years in a row – with more ahead – initially required the Turnpike Commission to borrow $2.5 billion and turn the money over to PennDOT to fill funding gaps in its highway-bridge programs: $750 million in fiscal 2007-08; $850 million in 2008-09; and $900 million in 2009-10. This, too, must be repaid for decades to come.

At the time, lawmakers were looking to avoid increasing Motor License Fund taxes and fees. Along with Mr. Rendell, they assumed the federal government would OK converting I-80 to a toll road. They rushed to "lease"  the east-west interstate to the turnpike in exchange for the $2.5 billion cash advance during a "conversion period."  Business and residents along the corridor protested and the feds said no to the politicos, but the turnpike's pockets had already been picked.

[cpzilliacus]

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Turnpike extension might be good for east towns, some residents say

K.R. Channarasappa knows the proposed Mon-Fayette Expressway project from two perspectives.

Thirty years ago, as an engineer for Mackin Engineering Co., Mr. Channarasappa helped to design the first version of the highway for the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. Tuesday night, as a trustee for the Sri Venkateswara Temple in Penn Hills, he reviewed the revised plans at a display at Gateway Middle School in Monroeville.

"On the whole, I think it's good for the temple,"  said Mr. Channarasappa.

The proposed $1.6 billion toll road would extend from Jefferson Hills to the Parkway East in Monroeville and have an interchange on Business Route 22 near Monroeville Mall. The new plan calls for a much narrower median and eliminates a wing from Turtle Creek to Pittsburgh because of the high cost and opposition from Pittsburgh officials and Oakland institutions.

[cpzilliacus]

Philly.com: Will highway project bring prosperity for Norristown?

Norristown has assets that other towns would envy: Excellent transportation access, proximity to employment centers, the seat of one of the state's wealthiest counties.

Yet it has not enjoyed the prosperity of its counterparts in Bucks, Chester, and Delaware Counties - Doylestown, West Chester, and Media, respectively - and Norristown has issues that no other town would envy, including high crime, poverty, and property-tax rates.

But after years of false starts, regional planners think that a major highway-construction project could be just the thing that can get the municipality on the road to recovery.

[ixnay]

Southwest PA is laced with what I call "minipikes" courtesy of the PTC.  Why doesn't the Philly area have any (real or contemplated)?

ixnay

[jeffandnicole]

Southwest PA is laced with what I call "minipikes" courtesy of the PTC.  Why doesn't the Philly area have any (real or contemplated)?

ixnay

We've had the Northeast Extension for decades.  They're just catching up! lol

Actually, they have blessed the Philly area with numerous slip ramps to make getting on and off in certain areas easier.  The area is very against building any new highways, so even if another extension was considered, it would have a very hard fight to get approved.

[ekt8750]

Southwest PA is laced with what I call "minipikes" courtesy of the PTC.  Why doesn't the Philly area have any (real or contemplated)?

ixnay

We've had the Northeast Extension for decades.  They're just catching up! lol

Actually, they have blessed the Philly area with numerous slip ramps to make getting on and off in certain areas easier.  The area is very against building any new highways, so even if another extension was considered, it would have a very hard fight to get approved.

This area drags its feet with expanding any mode of transportation and it's mostly due to politicians easily bowing to NIMBY pressure.

[jemacedo9]

Southwest PA is laced with what I call "minipikes" courtesy of the PTC.  Why doesn't the Philly area have any (real or contemplated)?

ixnay

We've had the Northeast Extension for decades.  They're just catching up! lol

Actually, they have blessed the Philly area with numerous slip ramps to make getting on and off in certain areas easier.  The area is very against building any new highways, so even if another extension was considered, it would have a very hard fight to get approved.

This area drags its feet with expanding any mode of transportation and it's mostly due to politicians easily bowing to NIMBY pressure.

US 202 just finished being widened to 6 lanes....and bids are going out to widen US 322 in Delco. to 4 lanes.  I-95 in NE Philly is being widened to 8 lanes plus auxiliary lanes.  The PA Turnpike is widening north and west...so I don't think there is an issue is lack of expansion.  Also...I don't think it's as much NIMBY (though NIMBY always plays a role), but:  a)  property values, and how built up the Philly area is, makes expansion cost prohibitive  b) the infrastructure is so old, more money is spent on updating to current standards.  There is a lot of money going towards the US 30, US 1, and US 422 expressways in addition to the above, and PA 309 was recently upgraded. 

NOW...if they would only widen the 4-lane portion of I-476...and who knows what to do with the Schuylkill...

[briantroutman]

Southwest PA is laced with what I call "minipikes" courtesy of the PTC.  Why doesn't the Philly area have any (real or contemplated)?

ixnay

Probably the biggest factor is the economy of the area. My understanding is that Turnpike 43 and 66 (and to a lesser degree, 576) were built in an attempt to jumpstart the economies of SWPA's hardest-hit regions, particularly the Mon Valley and Westmoreland County. Judging by traffic counts, none of them have been very successful; here's a Post-Gazette article about the Mon-Fayette.

On the other hand, while metro Philadelphia's economy hasn't been exactly soaring, its resilience has been comparatively better than greater Pittsburgh's. Add in the NIMBY aspect of many Philadelphia suburbanites, higher property values, plus a desire among city dwellers to keep Philadelphia dense, walkable, and transit-oriented, and you have an environment where new highway construction is generally not part of the discussion.

[cpzilliacus]

NOW...if they would only widen the 4-lane portion of I-476...and who knows what to do with the Schuylkill...

Though I am not very trusting of what the political establishment in Harrisburg would do if given the chance, I would turn the Sure-Kill Expressway part of I-76 over to PTC with orders to use tolls to manage the demand that's  there.  I would take half the toll revenues and use them to reconstruct the freeway (within reason - the amount of space available for a widening is someplace between nothing and a little), and give the rest of the dollars to SEPTA in the form of transit capital subsidies.

[jeffandnicole]

NOW...if they would only widen the 4-lane portion of I-476...and who knows what to do with the Schuylkill...

Though I am not very trusting of what the political establishment in Harrisburg would do if given the chance, I would turn the Sure-Kill Expressway part of I-76 over to PTC with orders to use tolls to manage the demand that's  there.  I would take half the toll revenues and use them to reconstruct the freeway (within reason - the amount of space available for a widening is someplace between nothing and a little), and give the rest of the dollars to SEPTA in the form of transit capital subsidies.

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere. 

The problem with the PTC is that it's already doing that, and it's starting to make tolls cost-prohibitive.  PA's gas taxes are also the highest in the nation.  There's no reason to have the PTC add tolls to Schuykill Expressway when there's very little they can do anyway, and give half that money to SEPTA.

[cpzilliacus]

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere.

If someone is headed west from Philadelphia, they are likely headed to the  Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline.  Not exactly free.

The problem with the PTC is that it's already doing that, and it's starting to make tolls cost-prohibitive.  PA's gas taxes are also the highest in the nation.  There's no reason to have the PTC add tolls to Schuykill Expressway when there's very little they can do anyway, and give half that money to SEPTA.

Pennsylvania's motor fuel taxes have to try to fund the  repair of hundreds of deficient bridges around the state, and PennDOT still does not bother to clean and paint most structural steel on its highway bridges.

I would rather see SEPTA get money from Schuylkill Expressway users and not from Pennsylvania Turnpike patrons from mostly very  distant points around the state.

[cpzilliacus]

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Truckers scrutinizing Pa. Turnpike payments to PennDOT

The decision in a federal case in New York state has thrown a new element into the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's attempt to get out from under a $450 million annual payment to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation for public transit: The payments may not be legal.

In a case filed by the American Trucking Associations, the court ruled Aug. 10 that the New York Thruway Authority can't use tolls charged to interstate truckers to support the state's canal system because truckers don't benefit from the canal. As a result, the trucking group says it will review similar situations in other states that use highway tolls "like a piggy bank"  to fund other items.

That could include Pennsylvania, where the turnpike commission is required to use tolls from the turnpike to pay $450 million a year to PennDOT to fund public transit in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. The turnpike has raised tolls for nine years and borrowed money annually, partially to make the PennDOT payment.

[odditude]

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere.

If someone is headed west from Philadelphia, they are likely headed to the  Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline.  Not exactly free.

or headed to King of Prussia, or the massive corporate parks around Wayne and Malvern, or to the Main Line, or the northwest suburbs via US 422...

yes, of all the many times i've headed west on the Schuylkill from the city, only once have I gone out to the Turnpike. of the region's many commuters, i'm definitely not the only one, either.

[Roadrunner75]

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere.

If someone is headed west from Philadelphia, they are likely headed to the  Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline.  Not exactly free.

or headed to King of Prussia, or the massive corporate parks around Wayne and Malvern, or to the Main Line, or the northwest suburbs via US 422...

yes, of all the many times i've headed west on the Schuylkill from the city, only once have I gone out to the Turnpike. of the region's many commuters, i'm definitely not the only one, either.

The Schuylkill is bad enough as it is - It would add insult to injury to put tolls on it.  I actually kind of like driving it (off peak of course) instead of looping around the City on the turnpike when passing to and from points west from NJ.  Great views and that free-for-all go-kart-track ride zipping around the curves. 

[Strider]

I wonder why they have not fixed (or rebuild) the Valley Forge interchange (I-76/I-276/PA Turnpike Exit 326). Looking at the map, a sharp U turn must be dangerous. I know there is a development right behind the interchange, but shouldn't they build flyovers in that area?

[jeffandnicole]

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere.

If someone is headed west from Philadelphia, they are likely headed to the  Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline.  Not exactly free.

or headed to King of Prussia, or the massive corporate parks around Wayne and Malvern, or to the Main Line, or the northwest suburbs via US 422...

yes, of all the many times i've headed west on the Schuylkill from the city, only once have I gone out to the Turnpike. of the region's many commuters, i'm definitely not the only one, either.

Don't forget the hundreds of thousands of people working in or visiting the city that live in the suburbs accessed from the Schuykill Expressway.Traffic thins out considerably West of the US 1 interchange, and again after the 476 interchange. And most of that traffic exits at the King of Prussia area.

If you're looking as the Schuykill Expressway from a long distance traveler's point of view, all it does is connect the Turnpike with Philly. But most traffic is local traffic, living in the vast sprawl of suburbia North and West of the city.

[ixnay]

No!  You are removing the one and only free interstate option for people leaving Philly to the west. For those wanting to avoid tolls, you would overload the existing street system, and making the lives of the residents along those streets a hellish nightmare to go anywhere.

If someone is headed west from Philadelphia, they are likely headed to the  Pennsylvania Turnpike's East-West Mainline.  Not exactly free.

or headed to King of Prussia, or the massive corporate parks around Wayne and Malvern, or to the Main Line, or the northwest suburbs via US 422...

yes, of all the many times i've headed west on the Schuylkill from the city, only once have I gone out to the Turnpike. of the region's many commuters, i'm definitely not the only one, either.

The Schuylkill is bad enough as it is - It would add insult to injury to put tolls on it.  I actually kind of like driving it (off peak of course) instead of looping around the City on the turnpike when passing to and from points west from NJ.  Great views and that free-for-all go-kart-track ride zipping around the curves.

Search YouTube for driver's eye views of the Schuylkill at speed.

ixnay

[Flyer78]

PITTSBURGH - The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's level of debt is "potentially unsustainable" because projected toll increases could lead motorists to find free alternatives, the state auditor general's office said in an audit released Tuesday.

Auditor General Eugene DePasquale said at a news conference in Pittsburgh that his auditors found the turnpike's financial health has deteriorated substantially since 2007, when the state legislature began requiring the agency to make payments of $450 million a year to PennDOT. The commission has had to borrow a substantial part of that money, and its annual debt payments comprise abut $600 million of its $980 million annual budget.

The audit found the commission's net position - total assets minus liabilities - has "spiraled" from $1.76 billion in 2007 to negative $4.11 billion in 2015. This has occurred despite the commission raising tolls nine years in a row.

...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160907_Pa__Turnpike_s_finances_headed_south__audit_finds.html

I don't think this will come as much of a shock to anyone...

[jeffandnicole]

The auditor's report has a tone like the PTC did this to themselves.

[compdude787]

Well, I just came across an interesting article in Lancaster Online, if this holds true there is going to be a TON of traffic using I-80, US 22 and I-68 to get from eastern PA to points west and vice versa in the next 20 years
http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/to-cross-pa-on-the-turnpike-it-s-possible-by/article_2d9be5d4-501c-11e6-81cc-439e7e7ee217.html

Act 44 should be repealed. PTC should not have to pay close to half a billion to repair roads other than the turnpike. People driving on the turnpike should only be paying to maintain the road they're driving on.

[Gnutella]

Well, I just came across an interesting article in Lancaster Online, if this holds true there is going to be a TON of traffic using I-80, US 22 and I-68 to get from eastern PA to points west and vice versa in the next 20 years
http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/to-cross-pa-on-the-turnpike-it-s-possible-by/article_2d9be5d4-501c-11e6-81cc-439e7e7ee217.html

Act 44 should be repealed. PTC should not have to pay close to half a billion to repair roads other than the turnpike. People driving on the turnpike should only be paying to maintain the road they're driving on.

I think a fair compromise would be that the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission keeps all of its revenue, but forfeits all revenue from Act 89, which was passed in 2013 to increase funding for road projects across the Commonwealth. Act 89 should be for PennDOT only. Act 44 should be repealed yesterday. How that bill ever saw the light of day is crazy. Even worse, Ohio is now doing the same damn thing. Monkey see, monkey do, I guess. Are any other states bleeding their toll roads dry?