PA Turnpike News

[Flyer78]

Different projects. What you would have seen three years ago is complete.

[jemacedo9]

Now hold on here guys..........Three years ago I last drove that stretch of the Northeast Ext. between Lansdale and the Turnpike main-line and there was construction on that stretch going on then. Are you saying that project is still not done three years later? What is it with the PTC? Can they get anything done in a timely manner? How long did it take New Jersey to double the width of their Turnpike down to the Pennsy Pike? And that was probably a bigger project.

When the NJTP widening was occurring, I have two questions: did they reconstruct the now inner lanes from the ground up?  And did they have any other major projects occurring?

In addition to the I-476 section, which they've been reconstructing and widening sections west of Carlisle, west of Somerset, and around Pittsburgh all at the same time.  So, I think the progress is closer to comparable.  PA is doing the widening and reconstructing in 4-8 mile sections.

[jeffandnicole]

Now hold on here guys..........Three years ago I last drove that stretch of the Northeast Ext. between Lansdale and the Turnpike main-line and there was construction on that stretch going on then. Are you saying that project is still not done three years later? What is it with the PTC? Can they get anything done in a timely manner? How long did it take New Jersey to double the width of their Turnpike down to the Pennsy Pike? And that was probably a bigger project.

Not completely familiar with the exact part of the project going on, but it's a 10 - 15 mile project that they're doing portions at a time.  Yeah, it's slow, but not abnormally slow, given the terrain and the room they have to work with.

[PHLBOS]

Now hold on here guys..........Three years ago I last drove that stretch of the Northeast Ext. between Lansdale and the Turnpike main-line and there was construction on that stretch going on then. Are you saying that project is still not done three years later? What is it with the PTC? Can they get anything done in a timely manner? How long did it take New Jersey to double the width of their Turnpike down to the Pennsy Pike? And that was probably a bigger project.

Not completely familiar with the exact part of the project going on, but it's a 10 - 15 mile project that they're doing portions at a time.  Yeah, it's slow, but not abnormally slow, given the terrain and the room they have to work with.

As stated earlier (& on the previous page); the widening of the southern 5 miles of the Northeast Extension (MM 20.0 to MM 25.0) is complete.  At present, all widening-related construction work for the Mid-County/Lansdale stretch is taking place along the northern 5-6 miles (MM 25.0 to MM 30.0-31.0).  Work includes replacing the original overpasses with wider ones as well as widening the mainline corridor.  At the Lansdale interchange itself, a concurrent project involving the construction of additional slip-ramps (E-ZPass ONLY) is also taking place.

When I was last in the area over a month ago, the concrete for the new northbound exit slip ramp was already poured.

[jemacedo9]

There has been a consistent process they've followed:  bridges over the turnpike are done first as an "advance" contract.  Then new lanes and wider bridges are done first, then traffic is switched to the new outside lanes, and the original road and bridges are reconstructed.

So, in addition to PHLBOS' point, several of the overpasses in the MM31-38 section have been or are being widened, as well as the mainline on MM320-326 section.

My comment above forgot the two smaller widenings near Harrisburg, near I-83 and east of I-283, and technically also east of I-95.  So, there are by quick count ~20-25 miles being widened right now, in addition to the sections already done.

Here's a status map.  Some of the completed projects before ~2010 did not involve widening. Some of the western projects include short new alignments to remove curves. 

https://www.paturnpike.com/pdfs/travel/Total_Recon_2014.pdf

[qguy]

The PTC also typically breaks each widening project up into at least two segments which are then constructed sequentially with no overlap. Each segment of mainline (travel lanes) is constructed over two construction seasons. So instead of an entire 10-mile-long stretch taking two years to complete, there are two 5-mile-long stretches which each take two years to complete, for a total of four years for the entire widening project. And that doesn't include the preliminary overhead bridge work which takes at least one and sometimes up to three construction seasons to complete before the travel lanes are even begun.

The portion from Landsdale to Quakertown will be at least two separate widening projects, so if the pattern holds, widening there from 4 to 6 lanes will take eight years to construct (not including the preliminary overhead bridge work).

So if the PA Turnpike widening projects seem like they take forever to complete, it's because they do. (I think "forever" is a technical term included in the contracts' language.")

And this is after the PTC gets its act together and actually moves a project to construction. They've had the Valley Forge to Great Valley (PA 29) widening project on hold for years while they engage in a spitting contest with the Army Corps of Engineers, nickel-and-diming the Army Corps over its environmental requirements. IIRC, that project was intended to move to construction in 2010 and still it languishes. (Army Corps: "It has to be this way." PTC: "OK, how about this way instead?" Army Corps: "No, it has to be this way." PTC: "OK, then, how about this other way instead?" Army Corps: "No, it has to be this way." PTC: "Well, OK, maybe this way?" Army Corps: "No..." etc. No joke.)

The new PA 29 interchange itself moved to construction two years (I think) behind schedule because the PTC did the same with the Army Corps with that project. (The spitting contest in that case involved drainage controls to protect a nearby high-quality trout fishing stream.)

That's PTC's history; they virtually never begin construction on a project when they say they will. And then they stage them so that they take longer than they should to complete once they do start.

[cpzilliacus]

At the Lansdale interchange itself, a concurrent project involving the construction of additional slip-ramps (E-ZPass ONLY) is also taking place.

When I was last in the area over a month ago, the concrete for the new northbound exit slip ramp was already poured.

Wish the PTC would stop referring to these as "slip ramps," which they are not.  They are EZ-Pass only or ETC-only exit ramps.

[PHLBOS]

At the Lansdale interchange itself, a concurrent project involving the construction of additional slip-ramps (E-ZPass ONLY) is also taking place.

When I was last in the area over a month ago, the concrete for the new northbound exit slip ramp was already poured.

Wish the PTC would stop referring to these as "slip ramps," which they are not.  They are EZ-Pass only or ETC-only exit ramps.

One has to wonder... once the Turnpike goes fully AET; would the new E-Z-Pass Only ramps at this interchange even be needed?

[Chris19001]

One has to wonder... once the Turnpike goes fully AET; would the new E-Z-Pass Only ramps at this interchange even be needed?

I drove through that interchange on PA63 for many years on a daily basis.  The extra capacity for the interchange is badly needed, although I'm not a fan of the new design. 
I think a far better flow would have been created by sinking a single grade separated underpass from 63East into the existing toll plaza.  As it will exist, all traffic from 63East will have to make a left turn at one of two lights to get to the turnpike.  That's a lot of traffic around rush hour, and it jams up frequently
There was plenty of room for the underpass once over the turnpike bridge, but the engineers decided a 2nd ramp from 476 northbound into the same intersection that the toll plaza currently uses was a better idea.    The design still seems bizarre to me, and perhaps even more so when considering the limitations the roadbed has on the current 63East for left hand turns directly west of the Old Forty Foot Road intersection (where the one "slip" ramp will feed from) 
If Mainland Road was turned back into 63East (as it was 63 until a few years ago) and made one way eastbound, that Forty Foot Road Intersection would work with a wider bridge and a dedicated turn lane(s) that would easily fit in the ROW.  Seems like this new setup will just create more of a hassle for everyone, especially through traffic not getting on the turnpike.  Glad I don't have to time going through there anymore.
Here's a link to the interchange btw..  https://www.patpconstruction.com/mpA20toA31/lib/img/overview/lansdale-interchange.jpg 
Ramp B-1 will be the troublemaker I suspect. 
Ramp F-1 takes up the space I would have used for an underpass exit from 63East into the toll plaza. 
(There's a pretty nice incline from Old Forty foot road to where ramp F-1 dumps out on 63.)

[ARMOURERERIC]

I was doing my monthly review of various construction project photos and it appears that the eastern half of the MP40-48 project is now complete and open to traffic for 6 lanes.  This would bring the 6 laning to 4 miles west of the Allegheny Valley interchange.

[PHLBOS]

Here's a link to the interchange btw..  https://www.patpconstruction.com/mpA20toA31/lib/img/overview/lansdale-interchange.jpg 
Ramp B-1 will be the troublemaker I suspect. 
Ramp F-1 takes up the space I would have used for an underpass exit from 63East into the toll plaza. 
(There's a pretty nice incline from Old Forty foot road to where ramp F-1 dumps out on 63.)

Once this interchange becomes fully AET; Ramp F-1 can probably replace the old northbound exit ramp in terms of function.

It appears that AET Ramp B-1 will allow those heading east along PA 63 to get on I-476 South earlier than the present interchange.

All traffic (cash & E-ZPass) can use the new Ramp I when completed.

[Chris19001]

It appears that AET Ramp B-1 will allow those heading east along PA 63 to get on I-476 South earlier than the present interchange.

Agreed, but there is (and will be) very little room for left turning traffic to approach the intersection with B-1.

I suspect that the two lane westbound 63 traffic will be squeezed to 1 lane, and the middle lane will be converted into a left turn only lane, but I haven't read that anywhere.  I'm hoping the traffic signal isn't just turned into a one way goes at a time (fully protected), but I suspect a majority of the traffic will be trying to make that left.

[KEVIN_224]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

[Alps]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

"it's not a preferred method" = everyone will now do it.

[cl94]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

"it's not a preferred method" = everyone will now do it.

I was thinking the same thing. Just look at what happened when McDonalds and other fast food places started accepting credit cards. I certainly don't pay with cash and neither do most other people.

That being said, accepting credit card payments if a system isn't all-AET just makes sense nowadays. Nobody carries cash and people are more likely to use a toll road if they don't need to have cash on their person.

[KEVIN_224]

I've heard of debit cards being accepted for Illinois Lottery tickets. Of course:

1- DEBIT cards only and not credit.
2- The person MUST have a physical Illinois street address.

[SignBridge]

Cl94, nobody carries cash anymore? Ya' sure about that? I still carry cash, aka United States Currency and my rule of thumb is if a purchase is under $20, I pay cash; over $20 I usually use a credit card. Paying cash is not going to fall by the wayside anytime soon.

[Ned Weasel]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

Actually, the Kansas Turnpike has accepted credit cards at the toll plazas for a while.  I always thought it was a bit silly, but apparently someone with the Kansas Turnpike Authority thought it was worth it to accept them.

[sparker]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

Actually, the Kansas Turnpike has accepted credit cards at the toll plazas for a while.  I always thought it was a bit silly, but apparently someone with the Kansas Turnpike Authority thought it was worth it to accept them.

Seems like it would be worthwhile for a pike authority to be able to collect $$ immediately from the cardholder or the issuer rather than wait for remittance via pay-by-plate, as is done with AET for non-subscribers/passholders.   

[74/171FAN]

Cl94, nobody carries cash anymore? Ya' sure about that? I still carry cash, aka United States Currency and my rule of thumb is if a purchase is under $20, I pay cash; over $20 I usually use a credit card. Paying cash is not going to fall by the wayside anytime soon.

I usually carry some cash for really small purchases and laundry plus I was told that it is nice to have some for emergencies.  Though, for the most part, most people around my age barely use cash anymore if ever.

[qguy]

Cl94, nobody carries cash anymore? Ya' sure about that?

If nothing else, he was hyperbolizing to make a point. Cash transactions as a percentage of all transactions are the lowest they've ever been in first-world countries. And as 74 implied, the younger the person the less cash they use. But I'm in my 50s and I hardly ever use cash, only keeping it in my wallet for emergencies.

I suspect that a completely cashless society may be like the paperless office--always coming but never arriving, not really entirely desirable when closely scrutinized, and not truly an absolute thing but more of a "meta-trend."

[MASTERNC]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

Not many other states have cross-state tolls that are higher than the biggest bill most people carry.

[jemacedo9]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Pennsylvania-Turnpike-toll-collectors-will-accept-credit-cards.html

Haven't seen this done in any other states!

"it's not a preferred method" = everyone will now do it.

YEP - and that's going to slow things considerably in the cash lanes...

[J N Winkler]

Seems like it would be worthwhile for a pike authority to be able to collect $$ immediately from the cardholder or the issuer rather than wait for remittance via pay-by-plate, as is done with AET for non-subscribers/passholders.

KTA does not do pay-by-mail or license plate tolling, so I suspect the main purpose of allowing credit-card payment is to deal with people who enter the Turnpike without realizing they don't have enough cash on hand to pay the toll.  Credit cards can apparently also be used at the Mackinac Bridge tollbooths; up until a couple of years ago, you had to go to the administration building to pay by credit card.

This is really a separate topic, but I personally won't use license plate tolling unless there is a way I can pay in advance so that I can then check the next credit card bill for a charge in the appropriate amount.  When a toll authority does not accept license plate registration and prepayment, that means I have to take the risk that it will not be able to match my license plate to me until some indefinite time in the distant future, at which point it will charge me service fees and toll violation fines that are several multiples of the actual toll and that I cannot easily challenge or appeal while living in a distant state.

[briantroutman]

...my rule of thumb is if a purchase is under $20, I pay cash; over $20 I usually use a credit card.

Then by your own rules, you'd be using a credit card for any sizable trip on the PA Turnpike. The non-E-ZPass toll from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh is $23.15, from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh is $32.90, and from border to border is $49.05.

In an age when you can walk into 7-Eleven and buy a pack of gum with a Visa, I think many people find it legitimately surprising that they can't use a credit card for a nearly fifty-dollar toll.