Routes that almost touch

[1995hoo]

If the south terminus of the Turnpike were to coincide with the toll plaza (which appears not to be true based on the above, but then again maintenance isn't everything. Doesn't NJTA maintain some of the free I-95 north of the northern terminus?), we have a curious situation of a freeway section with no designation, since US 40 leaves the Turnpike south of the tolls. Are there other places like this? What do people call them? I know in the case of the Turnpike, most people think it goes all the way to the Delaware Memorial Bridge, a notion perpetuated by the ambiguous signs on both the Turnpike and I-295 in Delaware.

I think there is a minuscule portion of the New York Thruway with no designation, that being the smidgen located between the point where I-87 departs at Exit 24 and I-90 takes over a short distance to the west. I believe technically the brief bit of road between the ramps has no designation other than whatever internal designation New York's authorities may use.

[bzakharin]

It's still the Thruway, though, isn't it? I meant something with neither name nor number. Much of the NJ Turnpike, not to mention all of the Parkway (yes, I know about the US 9 multiplexes, virtually all) and AC Expressway have no public route numbers, but those are not really that interesting.

[1995hoo]

It's still the Thruway, though, isn't it? I meant something with neither name nor number. Much of the NJ Turnpike, not to mention all of the Parkway (yes, I know about the US 9 multiplexes, virtually all) and AC Expressway have no public route numbers, but those are not really that interesting.

Ah, I misunderstood. Yes, it's still the Thruway. As to neither name nor number, I have no idea.

[jeffandnicole]

....Since they do touch just north of the Delaware Memorial Bridge, I wouldn't count them at all.....

So the Turnpike actually begins right at that interchange, then? I always wondered about it but was never motivated enough to look it up. I was never sure whether it was considered to begin at the site of the old "Exit 1" toll plaza (since removed) or whether it went further down. There used to be one of the ubiquitous "You have left the turnpike, obey local speed laws" signs located just south of that old toll plaza, which was one reason why I was never sure (of course we all know signs themselves are not determinative*).

*I remember when I was a kid a friend of mine insisted adamantly that the state line is located where the welcome sign is. You should have seen the look on his face when I asked, "Then how does it work when the states don't position the welcome signs directly across from each other? Does the state line suddenly change directions to run up the middle of the road?"

Actually, it's true of all the toll plazas - they are simply at a random point along the turnpike right-of-way.  In all cases, the turnpike's jurisdiction extends beyond the plazas to include the ramps, access roads and the like.

Here are your jurisdiction limits approaching the Delaware Memorial Bridge: http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/enlarged_view_26.pdf

Another oddity that could be a bit confusing (although it doesn't appear most people care) is the speed limit down that way.  Per the Straight Line Diagrams, the speed limit is 55 mph between Turnpike MP 0.0 & 1.7.  Per the NJ Turnpike offical regulations, it's MP 1.2.   Either way, signs don't exist for the 55 mph area whatsoever.

Coming into NJ Northbound, the DRPA posts a 50 mph speed limit sign just before their jurisdiction ends (I hate when they do that), and there are no speed limit signs on the Turnpike until about MP 1.5 (and that one may have been removed when they put the new VMS/VSLS structure at about MP 3.0). Southbound, the final speed limit sign is just south of the last service area.  Both those signs are normally set at 65 mph.

So what does it mean?  Not much.  In the rare instances the State Police are actually patrolling the area, they would probably consider it a 65 mph zone.

[NE2]

If the south terminus of the Turnpike were to coincide with the toll plaza (which appears not to be true based on the above, but then again maintenance isn't everything. Doesn't NJTA maintain some of the free I-95 north of the northern terminus?), we have a curious situation of a freeway section with no designation, since US 40 leaves the Turnpike south of the tolls. Are there other places like this? What do people call them? I know in the case of the Turnpike, most people think it goes all the way to the Delaware Memorial Bridge, a notion perpetuated by the ambiguous signs on both the Turnpike and I-295 in Delaware.

Eh? I just said that the Turnpike (NJ 700) goes all the way to the beginning of DMB maintenance.

Maintenance almost never ends at a toll booth; I can think of only one example. Approaches are logical parts of the roadway.

[bzakharin]

Eh? I just said that the Turnpike (NJ 700) goes all the way to the beginning of DMB maintenance.

Maintenance almost never ends at a toll booth; I can think of only one example. Approaches are logical parts of the roadway.

My point is that just because *maintenance* continues beyond the toll booth, doesn't mean it is part of what is officially called the New Jersey Turnpike. So if it's not, we have a section of roadway that does not have any designation, name or number (unlike the parallel situation between the northern end of the Turnpike and the section of free 95 maintained by the NJTA, which is of course designated as I-95).

[NE2]

I can't think of any places where the name ends at the toll booth.

[Kacie Jane]

Eh? I just said that the Turnpike (NJ 700) goes all the way to the beginning of DMB maintenance.

Maintenance almost never ends at a toll booth; I can think of only one example. Approaches are logical parts of the roadway.

My point is that just because *maintenance* continues beyond the toll booth, doesn't mean it is part of what is officially called the New Jersey Turnpike. So if it's not, we have a section of roadway that does not have any designation, name or number (unlike the parallel situation between the northern end of the Turnpike and the section of free 95 maintained by the NJTA, which is of course designated as I-95).

Why on earth would the name end at the tollbooth? All the signs beyond the toll booth say Turnpike (without a "To").

Not to mention, it does have a (secret) number, 700, that unambiguously continues to 295. Or if you don't like secret numbers, then you'd have another case in the same state... The first toll booth southbound on the GSP isn't until after Exit 166.  I can't recall where it is northbound, but it certainly isn't right at Exit 0.

[bzakharin]

Why on earth would the name end at the tollbooth? All the signs beyond the toll booth say Turnpike (without a "To").

Not to mention, it does have a (secret) number, 700, that unambiguously continues to 295. Or if you don't like secret numbers, then you'd have another case in the same state... The first toll booth southbound on the GSP isn't until after Exit 166.  I can't recall where it is northbound, but it certainly isn't right at Exit 0.

You are right. I was sure they did not, but looking at Google street view, they do, though the exit for US 40 being unnumbered does lend itself to the feeling that you are in no man's land. As for the Parkway, it uses a different tolling system, so you don't associate being on the Parkway with being between exactly two tollbooths at either end like you do with the Turnpike.

[NE2]

Does the Eastern Spur end at NJ 495? Of course not.

[iowahighways]

There is a point just south of the Iowa-Missouri border where I-29 and US 275 run parallel about 150 feet apart. They even share a weigh station, but there is no interchange between the two highways at that point.

[hotdogPi]

I mentioned I-690/NY 5 before, but how it's counted is up to interpretation.

How do you think the distance between them should be measured?

[jeffandnicole]

Eh? I just said that the Turnpike (NJ 700) goes all the way to the beginning of DMB maintenance.

Maintenance almost never ends at a toll booth; I can think of only one example. Approaches are logical parts of the roadway.

My point is that just because *maintenance* continues beyond the toll booth, doesn't mean it is part of what is officially called the New Jersey Turnpike. So if it's not, we have a section of roadway that does not have any designation, name or number (unlike the parallel situation between the northern end of the Turnpike and the section of free 95 maintained by the NJTA, which is of course designated as I-95).

Referring to the southern end of the turnpike, it is State Route 700 all the way down to MP 0.0 where it officially becomes 295, and is turnpike owned and maintained between that point and the toll plazas, including the portion also designed at US 40. Along the ramps, the NJ Turnpike maintains them and they are usually signed in some fashion. So unless there's another stretch of roadway one can find that isn't numbered or designated in some way, the point is moot.

[kendancy66]

Virginia Secondary Route 650 in Fairfax County terminates at Route 236 about 157 feet west of the western terminus of Route 244: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.8305135,-77.1961758/38.8306054,-77.1967123/@38.8323522,-77.1939979,17z/data=!4m3!4m2!1m0!1m0

(If you look at the Street View of that intersection, you can find some ugly Virginia primary shields on the south side and some weird street signs that abbreviate "Turnpike" as "Trnpk," which every time I see it makes me wonder why bother abbreviating an 8-letter word at all just to save three letters.)

Great example, but I thought that I would pose this question to others:

Since VA 244 west of VA 617 is only one way, does East VA 244 start at VA 617?  Or is there a different routing for VA-244 from VA-236 western terminus east to Columbia Pike?

[mrsman]

Virginia Secondary Route 650 in Fairfax County terminates at Route 236 about 157 feet west of the western terminus of Route 244: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.8305135,-77.1961758/38.8306054,-77.1967123/@38.8323522,-77.1939979,17z/data=!4m3!4m2!1m0!1m0

(If you look at the Street View of that intersection, you can find some ugly Virginia primary shields on the south side and some weird street signs that abbreviate "Turnpike" as "Trnpk," which every time I see it makes me wonder why bother abbreviating an 8-letter word at all just to save three letters.)

Great example, but I thought that I would pose this question to others:

Since VA 244 west of VA 617 is only one way, does East VA 244 start at VA 617?  Or is there a different routing for VA-244 from VA-236 western terminus east to Columbia Pike?

I think, technically speaking VA 244 ends at VA 236, yet the last block is only westbound.  So the beginning of eastbound VA 236 is at VA 244, yet you are not allowed to drive on it.  But you could walk (and maybe bicycle) along the sidewalk in the eastbound direction.

By looking at Streetview, I'm disappointed that there doesn't appear to be good signage along eastbound VA 236 guiding people to use VA 617 to get to eastbound VA 244.  I believe that street signage should guide people in a way that is representative of what they are likely to see on a road map (the old fashioned foldable kind, not GSV or GPS).  Unless they have a street by street map of the area, a map would likely show VA 244, VA 617, and VA 236 converging on one point, and a driver should be guided toward VA 244 through signage alone.

It is also tricky if someone were to follow directions by taking VA 244 westbound to VA 236 westbound.  On their return trip, they'd expect to be able to make the reverse trip by making a left turn.  I'm sure many unfamiliar people miss their way back.

[1995hoo]

Heading to eastbound 244 they recommend using John Marr Drive (next traffic light east of 617). I believe that's due to that block of Backlick Road (617) in front of the old Three Chefs/Fuddruckers being an extremely short block that congests easily when traffic is heavy. They rightly don't want traffic spilling out and blocking the box on 236. You get a good amount of thru traffic going from Backlick Road to Annandale Road (Route 650), which becomes Gallows Road and leads to Tysons. It's a popular alternate route to the Beltway during rush hours among people who can't or won't use the HO/T lanes.

[dgolub]

If county routes count, they how about Anderson Hill Road (Westchester CR 18) and King Street (NY 120A).  CR 18 ends at the New York-Connecticut border, and NY 120A is just over the border in Connecticut (even though it's a New York route).

[6a]

JC beat me to it:

I'm thinking of US-23 & OH-47.

Not bad - about 25 feet.

It's that close? Wow.

I'm also thinking there might be a similar situation with US 33 and a 3dOH somewhere between Bellefontaine and Marysville.

Yeah, SR 292 does that just before Bellefontaine.

[woodpusher]

It seems there was one in New Orleans (I don't recall whether it was Orleans or Jefferson Parish)...this was before Katrina....
anyway when traffic backed up sometimes people would drive over this narrow strip of land to get to the nearby road.

Dang, I want to say Earhart Blvd (which would be LA-3139).  It becomes Earhart Expressway further into Jefferson Parish.  Hmm....I'm looking at the map but nothing jumps out at me though.

[froggie]

Jumping in slightly late here...

NH 26 and VT 102

Given that VT 26 (all 50-some feet of it) is an extension of NH 26, can you really count this one?  Though SPUI used a "harsher" term, I agree with his sentiment on "state line tomfoolery"...

MD 835A and US 50/301 (and similar situations elsewhere in the state)

Strictly speaking mainlines, yes.  Though it should be noted that there are ramps on eastbound 50/301 that connect to MD 835A.  Same situation with US 52/MN 56...the southbound US 52 ramps at MN 50 connect directly to MN 56.

Meanwhile, two examples that haven't been mentioned yet:

- US 11/NY 190 in Ellenburg, NY:  about 200ft centerline to centerline.  Drove this one along US 11 yesterday.
- PA 475/PA 655 in Hustontown, PA:  about 370ft.

[mwp3]

I-290 and I-294 come pretty close to each other between North Avenue in Elmhurst, IL and Butterfield Road near the eastern terminus of I-88.

[Gnutella]

GA 98 and GA 22 in Comer (Madison County).

By the way, the two termini for GA 98 are in towns named Comer and Homer.

[TEG24601]

OR-8 and OR-10 come within 1 block (about 50'-75') from touching in Beaverton.  They even share an Interchange on OR-217, but alas, TV Highway (OR-8) and Farmington Highway (OR-10) do not touch.

[lepidopteran]

Honorable mention goes to the Long Island Expressway and the Northern State Parkway.  True, they cross west of Jericho, complete with slip ramps, but there are two points where the highways run practically side-by-side.  Kind of makes you wonder: two freeways, one of which has HOV lanes, and the area has one of the most extensive commuter rail lines in the country, yet the LIE still manages to get backed up.

[vtk]

Honorable mention goes to the Long Island Expressway and the Northern State Parkway.  True, they cross west of Jericho, complete with slip ramps, but there are two points where the highways run practically side-by-side.  Kind of makes you wonder: two freeways, one of which has HOV lanes, and the area has one of the most extensive commuter rail lines in the country, yet the LIE still manages to get backed up.

And yet a friend of mine who lives there refuses to characterize the area as urbanized.