Is road rage getting worse or what?

[jeffandnicole]

So I'm basically watching you with road rage.  lol  Don't use your horn as a weapon.   Many of those intersections seem poorly signed, so I can understand why many people make last minute calls.

....

A "weapon"? Seriously? Wow, I've never heard that before.

Horns don't kill people...people kill people.

People who hold up 20 cars behind them in morning rush hour traffic because they want to be nice and let someone out of the gas station parking lot or the school parking lot.

This.  Nothing infuriates me more than drivers who don't understand what right-of-way laws are or why they exist.  How they think that holding up 20 cars to let in one car, which didn't have the ROW, is "polite" is beyond me.

Even worse...when there's a line of 20 cars going by.  I'm looking, and see the gap after the last car.  I'm waiting for the last car to proceed past.  Instead, the last car stops to let me out.  So, I'm sitting there waiting and expecting that car to go, and that car's driver is trying to waive me into the roadway.  Then again, I don't know, because it's 10pm and it's pitch black in the car, so I can't fricken see them waiving!!!

[broadhurst04]

People who hold up 20 cars behind them in morning rush hour traffic because they want to be nice and let someone out of the gas station parking lot or the school parking lot.

This.  Nothing infuriates me more than drivers who don't understand what right-of-way laws are or why they exist.  How they think that holding up 20 cars to let in one car, which didn't have the ROW, is "polite" is beyond me.

I.... really???  I'll try to remind you of that the next time you're the one waiting 5 minutes to get out of a parking lot waiting for a nonexistent gap in traffic.

(To answer your question of how it's polite, letting that one car "cut in line" delays the cars behind a few seconds.  Forcing that one car to wait for legitimate gap in traffic could -- at the extreme -- mean they're waiting the duration of rush hour.)

And in that few seconds the light changes from green back to red, forcing those 20 cars to wait 3 or 4 minutes for the light to change back to green.

Sorry. I don't have time to be nice in the morning. Find another time to buy your gas and put your kids on the bus. With the kind of job I have, If I'm late I run the risk of being disciplined if a customer complains because I wasn't sitting at my desk at 30 seconds past 8 waiting on them to show up.

[Kacie Jane]

Even worse...when there's a line of 20 cars going by.  I'm looking, and see the gap after the last car.  I'm waiting for the last car to proceed past.  Instead, the last car stops to let me out.  So, I'm sitting there waiting and expecting that car to go, and that car's driver is trying to waive me into the roadway.  Then again, I don't know, because it's 10pm and it's pitch black in the car, so I can't fricken see them waiving!!!

Well, yeah, that makes sense.  If there's a gap right behind them, that's not polite, that's just silly.  I kinda figure we're mainly talking about the worst of rush hour traffic, where being let in is the only way they're getting out of the parking lot.

And in that few seconds the light changes from green back to red, forcing those 20 cars to wait 3 or 4 minutes for the light to change back to green.

Sorry. I don't have time to be nice in the morning. Find another time to buy your gas and put your kids on the bus. With the kind of job I have, If I'm late I run the risk of being disciplined if a customer complains because I wasn't sitting at my desk at 30 seconds past 8 waiting on them to show up.

Then leave earlier so missing one light cycle doesn't make you late for work!  Also, the soccer mom doesn't have much choice of when to drop her kids off for school.

Let's change the scenario slightly.  Instead of someone turning onto a road from a parking lot, what if it's someone turning left off the road?  (Say it's a two-lane road, no center turn lane, minimal passing room on the shoulder.)  So now, if you don't let them cross in front of you, not only are you delaying them, you're delaying everyone on the road behind them.  Alright, fine, you don't have time to be polite, so you're not going to lose those couple of seconds by letting them pass.  But your opinion changes if you're one of the cars stuck behind the turning vehicle, doesn't it?

[vdeane]

The amount of delay in each scenario doesn't even compare to each other - it's different by a factor of 80!

[Kacie Jane]

Care to clarify?  I'm not sure which scenarios you're referring to, or where the factor of 80 would come from.

[broadhurst04]

Then leave earlier so missing one light cycle doesn't make you late for work!  Also, the soccer mom doesn't have much choice of when to drop her kids off for school.

I've tried leaving home 10-15 minutes earlier. I still run into the same problem. To avoid the problem altogether I would have to get up an hour earlier, and I'm not willing to do that. Like I said earlier, buy your gas at a different time of day. And soccer mom can put her kids on the bus.

[Pete from Boston]

So I'm basically watching you with road rage.  lol  Don't use your horn as a weapon.   Many of those intersections seem poorly signed, so I can understand why many people make last minute calls.

....

A "weapon"? Seriously? Wow, I've never heard that before.

A horn is used as a weapon if used to just tell other drivers that you're pissed off.  About half of those honks weren't necessary in my opinion, and you were too far from some 'culprit' vehicles to justify its use (confusing drivers directly in front of you).

It might be a regional thing.  I know Californians use their horn more liberally, but I've noticed it's considered malpractice up in the Northwest, particularly with bicyclists sharing the road and heavy pedestrian traffic.  I only use the horn if there's a chance of impact involving the car in front of me (not 2 or 3 cars in front since that will confuse the other drivers between you and the driver you're not happy with) or if the car in front of me has idled at a green light for more than 5 seconds.

Horn use for all manner of expression of contempt is the rule here and not exceptional.  I do it, lots of others do it, and it's overall pretty juvenile of all of us.  But we're all pretty juvenile, I guess.  Welcome to 2014.

I do catch myself having to tone it down when in quieter areas, nighttime in residential neighborhoods, etc.  City life tends sometimes to require more noise to be noticed; everywhere else this can quickly become overkill.

I do try to train myself to flash my lights as a warning rather than honk when it's not truly dangerous, with mixed results, and tap the horn very lightly to nudge folks who miss light changes for more than three seconds. 

Horn use is like pretty much all driving habits — almost nothing you do will change anyone else's habits, but lots of what you can do can make the situation much worse. 

[Laura]

The reason people stop so far back is because they're too lazy to keep their foot on the brakes during the red light and want room to "creep" forward periodically during the light.

This is so annoying to me. I hate when people constantly creep up while waiting at a red light. If I'm stopped at a red light, I want to be stopped, not inching every ten seconds. And no, this is not because I'm busy playing with my phone. I leave a reasonable gap between me and the car in front of me so I can change lanes if necessary. I'm not interested in squishing up like sardines only to find that the person in front of me wants to make an illegal stop in the right lane or illegal turn in the left lane (both common in the city)


iPhone

[Scott5114]

I have read (don't know from what source) that it is actually more efficient to not inch forward, because when the light turns green, the space between cars can be used to accelerate, rather than having to wait for the car ahead of you to go and then start accelerating.

[Pete from Boston]

The reason people stop so far back is because they're too lazy to keep their foot on the brakes during the red light and want room to "creep" forward periodically during the light.

This is so annoying to me. I hate when people constantly creep up while waiting at a red light. If I'm stopped at a red light, I want to be stopped, not inching every ten seconds. And no, this is not because I'm busy playing with my phone. I leave a reasonable gap between me and the car in front of me so I can change lanes if necessary. I'm not interested in squishing up like sardines only to find that the person in front of me wants to make an illegal stop in the right lane or illegal turn in the left lane (both common in the city)

This just reminds me of how folks cannot seem to handle the concept of leaving stopping room ahead of one's vehicle.  If traffic is any kind of heavy, it becomes impossible to leave safe stopping room because some opportunist needs to jump in there.  Worse, it can get folks behind to start aggressively tailgating — the STUPIDEST thing one can do on a highway — because if you're leaving that room obviously you're a slowpoke menace.

Rosd rage is one thing, but endangering me and others to show us how annoyed you are is grounds for arrest, in my opinion.

[1995hoo]

The reason people stop so far back is because they're too lazy to keep their foot on the brakes during the red light and want room to "creep" forward periodically during the light.

This is so annoying to me. I hate when people constantly creep up while waiting at a red light. If I'm stopped at a red light, I want to be stopped, not inching every ten seconds. And no, this is not because I'm busy playing with my phone. I leave a reasonable gap between me and the car in front of me so I can change lanes if necessary. I'm not interested in squishing up like sardines only to find that the person in front of me wants to make an illegal stop in the right lane or illegal turn in the left lane (both common in the city)

What annoys me is the person who inches forward repeatedly when it's red, seemingly because he's anxious for it to turn green or thinks he's in a hurry or whatever, but then just sits there when it turns green! Why were you inching forward so much if you're not going to move?

I try to watch the light on the other street to see when it goes yellow. I then shift into first gear so I'm ready to go when the green comes on–or, leaving my neighborhood, I often start rolling just before the green comes on because the stop bar is set fairly far back and I know the light cycle (including the fact that's there's a brief delay between the other street going red and my getting the green arrow). Of course watching the yellow doesn't work everywhere due to things like turn arrows or varied light cycles, but generally it works pretty well for me.

....

This just reminds me of how folks cannot seem to handle the concept of leaving stopping room ahead of one's vehicle.  If traffic is any kind of heavy, it becomes impossible to leave safe stopping room because some opportunist needs to jump in there.  Worse, it can get folks behind to start aggressively tailgating — the STUPIDEST thing one can do on a highway — because if you're leaving that room obviously you're a slowpoke menace.

....

I've often wondered how well radar-based cruise control actually works, and the reason is due to precisely the issue you note. I presume that sort of cruise control is programmed to maintain the proper following distance. But if someone cuts into the gap, won't the system then adjust your speed and push you further back, creating another big gap into which someone else will cut? I find it hard to visualize how that sort of system can be effective except out on a largely empty road.

(I think when I took behind the wheel 25 years ago they said to leave a two-second gap below 40 mph and a four-second gap above. Have you ever tried to leave a four-second gap? It's HUGE! You'd never be able to do that in an urban area. Here in the DC area anything over a one-second gap will certainly be filled by someone else. Even a one-second gap doesn't mean someone won't cut in, of course.)

[SP Cook]

I just had an idea: prohibit traffic fines (or any fees related to traffic court) from being used by the government. 

Exactly.   Because all traffic enforcement is illigitimate.  It is a random tax.  They really don't want you to obey these "laws".  Doing so would not only bring the flow of traffic to a crawl, it would deprive these jurisdictions of their money, and force those enforcing the laws to interact with actual criminals, rather than extort ordinary people by the side of the road at the point of a gun. 

Contrasting speed limits and such with legitimate laws is foolish.

[corco]

I just had an idea: prohibit traffic fines (or any fees related to traffic court) from being used by the government. 

Exactly.   Because all traffic enforcement is illigitimate.  It is a random tax.  They really don't want you to obey these "laws".  Doing so would not only bring the flow of traffic to a crawl, it would deprive these jurisdictions of their money, and force those enforcing the laws to interact with actual criminals, rather than extort ordinary people by the side of the road at the point of a gun. 

Contrasting speed limits and such with legitimate laws is foolish.

I disagree with you on nearly everything, and I agree with you on this, so it must be a good idea.

[vdeane]

Care to clarify?  I'm not sure which scenarios you're referring to, or where the factor of 80 would come from.

If I read you right, you were comparing waiting 3-4 more minutes because a car in the protected left turn lane wanted to go straight instead to waiting 2 seconds for a pedestrian to cross.

[Kacie Jane]

Care to clarify?  I'm not sure which scenarios you're referring to, or where the factor of 80 would come from.

If I read you right, you were comparing waiting 3-4 more minutes because a car in the protected left turn lane wanted to go straight instead to waiting 2 seconds for a pedestrian to cross.

Nope, sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm arguing with broadhurst over allowing someone to turn out of a parking lot in front of you. My alternate scenario involves allowing someone to turn into that parking lot in front of you. No pedestrians or protected lefts involved. In fact, the point is that it's not a protected left, so if no one lets that car turn left, it's not just the turning vehicle that's stuck there, bit all the thru traffic behind them as well.

[signalman]

I try to watch the light on the other street to see when it goes yellow. I then shift into first gear so I'm ready to go when the green comes on—or, leaving my neighborhood, I often start rolling just before the green comes on because the stop bar is set fairly far back and I know the light cycle (including the fact that's there's a brief delay between the other street going red and my getting the green arrow). Of course watching the yellow doesn't work everywhere due to things like turn arrows or varied light cycles, but generally it works pretty well for me.

I do this too.  During the day, tunnel visors on traffic signals really annoy me for this reason.  At night it isn't much of an issue, because even with tunnel visors, you can see what color the cross street signal is.  While it doesn't always work because of leading protected left turns or split phasing, those scenarios can usually be picked out even if one is unfamiliar with the intersection.  Protected lefts are easy enough for anyone to pick out, and those are usually actuated. (If no opposing car is stopped in the left turn bay, it won't turn green.)  Split phasing could be done a number of ways.  I like the ones that have two green sections side-by-side.  Occasionally dog houses are used.  While it's true that even if you know split phasing is used at the intersection, it might not be obvious which direction gets the green first.  Some jurisdictions will use a "Delayed Green" sign, or something to that effect.  But in my experience, most don't.  Worst case scenario though is that the driver held down the clutch unnecessarily.  I won't wait with the clutch depressed.  I'll just shift back into neutral and wait for the green.

I've often wondered how well radar-based cruise control actually works, and the reason is due to precisely the issue you note. I presume that sort of cruise control is programmed to maintain the proper following distance. But if someone cuts into the gap, won't the system then adjust your speed and push you further back, creating another big gap into which someone else will cut? I find it hard to visualize how that sort of system can be effective except out on a largely empty road.

(I think when I took behind the wheel 25 years ago they said to leave a two-second gap below 40 mph and a four-second gap above. Have you ever tried to leave a four-second gap? It's HUGE! You'd never be able to do that in an urban area. Here in the DC area anything over a one-second gap will certainly be filled by someone else. Even a one-second gap doesn't mean someone won't cut in, of course.)

I've also wondered how the radar based cruise control adjust works. I agree that it would not work well at all in any built up area (assuming it's designed to keep a safe following distance).  Many drivers would fill the rather large gap that had been left.

I do have experience with Mercedes Benz auto braking on the S class.  When it first came out, many buyers were unaware of it or how it worked.  I had a great time jamming the brakes when one was tailgating me and then watching the driver in the rearview mirror kiss the windshield.

[Mergingtraffic]

From the "all about me" file:

2-cars backing out of a driveway as I'm driving up.  One car a male driver, the other a female driver.  One car waits for the other to back out.  Both cars are now ahead of me on neighborhood streets. 
On 3 occasions, the stop and each take turns being the lead car.  Of course as they do this, they're making me come to a complete stop. 

I honk my horn and then they speed up.

Next, at the stoplight, the male driver turns right on red (you're allowed) and the female driver plans on doing the same as she has her right turn signal on.  Light is red and she sits there fiddling on her phone.  No other cars were at the intersection.  Then gets on highway cutting people off.

These two based on their actions only cared about themselves.  I see more and more of this.

[1995hoo]

Not road rage related, just weird:

Yesterday my wife was heading to the grocery store late in the afternoon. I warned her to watch out because a woman across the street was getting in her car as well. The lady across the street was faster and backed out first.....damndest thing, she put on her left turn blinker before putting it in reverse and left it in as she backed out of her driveway, at which point she turned the back of the car to the right and the blinker shut off.....so she then turned on the left blinker again and drove off (it shut off as she left). Yes, in the end she did "go left" in relation to her driveway.

NEVER seen anyone signal merely backing out of their own driveway before! I guess we all lament people who don't signal, and I guess it wasn't harming anyone, but darn was that strange to watch!

(I think she's just overly timid and cautious. I don't think she's been driving for very long–the people in that house are immigrants from Baghdad and I assume this lady never drove at all until coming here pretty recently and so she's one of those people who take everything in the DMV driving manual super-seriously.  In principle that's not bad, though in practice there is such a thing as being TOO timid.)

[J N Winkler]

Yesterday my wife was heading to the grocery store late in the afternoon. I warned her to watch out because a woman across the street was getting in her car as well. The lady across the street was faster and backed out first.....damndest thing, she put on her left turn blinker before putting it in reverse and left it in as she backed out of her driveway, at which point she turned the back of the car to the right and the blinker shut off.....so she then turned on the left blinker again and drove off (it shut off as she left). Yes, in the end she did "go left" in relation to her driveway.

NEVER seen anyone signal merely backing out of their own driveway before! I guess we all lament people who don't signal, and I guess it wasn't harming anyone, but darn was that strange to watch!

I always signal when backing out of a driveway or parking stall, and while I agree it is unusual, I am hardly the only person I know who does it.  However, I don't signal in precisely the same way this woman did.  I signal for the backing maneuver only, and do not additionally signal for the straightening-out, since I normally try to reverse through the full angle I need to get the car in the straight-ahead position with the wheels pointed straight ahead (this minimizes the risk of flat-spotting the tires).

Edit:  I'd also contend the woman was signalling in the wrong direction.  She was signalling to the left because she planned to set out left in relation to her driveway.  But signalling when backing up is of benefit primarily to pedestrians on the sidewalk and cars on the street or parking aisle that are imminently about to move past the reversing car, so the signal has to be in the direction the rear of the car goes when it is backing out--in this case, the right.  This woman's left signal would likely not even have been visible to a car or pedestrian approaching from the right (and thus at greater risk of a collision) since it would have been on the wrong side of the car.

[1995hoo]

....

Edit:  I'd also contend the woman was signalling in the wrong direction.  She was signalling to the left because she planned to set out left in relation to her driveway.  But signalling when backing up is of benefit primarily to pedestrians on the sidewalk and cars on the street or parking aisle that are imminently about to move past the reversing car, so the signal has to be in the direction the rear of the car goes when it is backing out--in this case, the right.  This woman's left signal would likely not even have been visible to a car or pedestrian approaching from the right (and thus at greater risk of a collision) since it would have been on the wrong side of the car.

I thought the same. I understood her thought process, but it struck me as a well-intentioned but misguided effort.

I'm sure one reason nobody on our street signals when backing out of our driveway is that there isn't really much reason to do so because the street doesn't go anywhere. It's not a dead end or cul-de-sac as it does connect to another street at the far end, but that street (which is a cul-de-sac on the far end) merely connects back to the same place the other end of ours does.

[signalman]

Yesterday my wife was heading to the grocery store late in the afternoon. I warned her to watch out because a woman across the street was getting in her car as well. The lady across the street was faster and backed out first.....damndest thing, she put on her left turn blinker before putting it in reverse and left it in as she backed out of her driveway, at which point she turned the back of the car to the right and the blinker shut off.....so she then turned on the left blinker again and drove off (it shut off as she left). Yes, in the end she did "go left" in relation to her driveway.

NEVER seen anyone signal merely backing out of their own driveway before! I guess we all lament people who don't signal, and I guess it wasn't harming anyone, but darn was that strange to watch!

I can honestly say that in 17 years of driving I've never seen anyone signal to back out of a driveway or parking spot.  I have seen folks with a turn signal on while waiting to pull out of a driveway on occasion.  Although, even that is quite rare.

I admit that I don't signal when no other cars or pedestrians are around.  I figure, "who am I telling my intended maneuvers to?"  There's no need to put the additional wear on the turn signal switch or the light bulbs.  I also won't signal lane changes in urban aggressive driving prone areas.  More than once have I seen a driver go to signal a lane change; only to have another selfish driver sit next to them to block their lane change.  My arguement in those circumstances is if they don't know my intended move, they can't block me.  Once I'm in front of them, then it's too late.

[jeffandnicole]

One of my carpool guys signals when he backs out of parking spots.  No one else around.  Even if they were close enough, then maybe the guy shouldn't be backing out until they pass.

He'll also signal when we go around a car parked on a shoulder. Usually, there's plenty of room to get around.  Worse yet: Those nearby may think he's preparing to turn left at the next intersection.  Sometimes, it's probably better off not signaling.

[J N Winkler]

I admit that I don't signal when no other cars or pedestrians are around.  I figure, "who am I telling my intended maneuvers to?"

You are telling the other people (whether in car or on foot) whom you cannot see but who can see your signals.

The only situations in which I either signal late or not at all are generally ones in which signalling strictly in accordance with the law would mislead other road users into making unsafe maneuvers.

This consideration comes into play every time I drive through these two intersections:

Central Ave. past Mount Carmel St. and Zoo Blvd.

In Kansas drivers are required to signal at least 100 feet in advance of a planned maneuver within an urban area.  Mount Carmel is less than 75 feet from the slip ramp that leads to Zoo Boulevard northwestward, so if I signalled strictly in accordance with the law, I would risk fooling a car waiting at the stop sign on Mount Carmel into thinking I was going to turn onto his street rather than Zoo, and tip him into driving into my path.  This is why I usually wait to turn on the blinker until I am crossing Mount Carmel.

I also won't signal lane changes in urban aggressive driving prone areas.  More than once have I seen a driver go to signal a lane change, only to have another selfish driver sit next to them to block their lane change.

The antidote to unsportsmanlike driving is not more of the same.  I generally seek to maintain an adequate following distance and to get into the correct lane for planned maneuvers well in advance.  This normally allows me to avoid getting cut off and cutting others off without having to obfuscate my intentions.

[signalman]

The antidote to unsportsmanlike driving is not more of the same.  I generally seek to maintain an adequate following distance and to get into the correct lane for planned maneuvers well in advance.  This normally allows me to avoid getting cut off and cutting others off without having to obfuscate my intentions.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, nor is it my intention to argue with you.  However, driving in a state as densely populated as New Jersey with heavy traffic quite often requires one to drive more aggressively than is optimum.  In nearly 20 years of driving, I have no at fault accidents.  I was rear ended while stopped at a red light 5 years ago.

[J N Winkler]

I don't disagree with what you are saying, nor is it my intention to argue with you.  However, driving in a state as densely populated as New Jersey with heavy traffic quite often requires one to drive more aggressively than is optimum.  In nearly 20 years of driving, I have no at fault accidents.  I was rear ended while stopped at a red light 5 years ago.

I understand what you mean--there have been times when I have been forced to change lanes in front of someone who is also changing lanes in order to avoid being "blocked out" of the lane I need for an imminently upcoming turn.  I try to keep those situations to a minimum since aggressive drivers are generally easier to handle in front (where I can see what they are doing) than when they are riding my tail.

In regard to driving history, I have been licensed for 22 years, have maintained a clean record for the past 18, and have been fortunate enough to avoid colliding with anyone else on a public road, though I have had several parking-lot collisions (causing damage below the reporting threshold) and a couple of single-vehicle accidents.