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I-70 in Colorado: Mountain Corridor Upgrades

Started by SpudMuffin, August 06, 2013, 02:20:23 PM

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Plutonic Panda



kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Great Lakes Roads


Plutonic Panda


andy3175

https://www.9news.com/amp/article/travel/cdot-fines-closed-i-70-mountain-toll-lanes/73-696d2e1a-b0b0-4f8f-8eef-b0e6714541a0

QuoteCDOT has issued zero fines for driving in closed I-70 mountain toll lanes – turns out it can't: CDOT said its current system cannot issue citations, but warns driving in closed lanes is illegal, dangerous and unfair. ...

Despite the Colorado legislature giving the agency the authority starting in summer 2022 to fine drivers up to $250 for using the lanes while they're closed, CDOT said it hasn't fined a single driver.

The legislature said there were 47,828 instances of vehicles using the lanes while closed in 2020.

CDOT spokesperson Tim Hoover said red tape has slowed down the agency's efforts to develop new technology that can issue citations. The current camera system can detect drivers using the lanes while they're closed -- and even capture their license plates -- but it's only set up to issue tolls, not citations, Hoover said.  ...

State patrol troopers can still issue tickets for illegal use of the lanes.

CDOT has explained before: it can only open the Mountain Express Lanes for a certain number of days per year, because they're technically not highway lanes.

Instead, Hoover said, they are "peak period shoulder lanes." The federal government said the eastbound lane can only be open 100 days a year, and the westbound lane can only be open 125 days a year.

When the new citation system is ready to come online, Hoover said, "the hammer is going to come down."

CDOT plans to wait a month once it turns on its new system -- which is currently being piloted on the westbound lane -- before issuing citations to drivers who use the lanes while closed, he said.
Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

zzcarp

Quote from: andy3175 on March 07, 2023, 11:47:20 AM
QuoteCDOT has explained before: it can only open the Mountain Express Lanes for a certain number of days per year, because they're technically not highway lanes.

Instead, Hoover said, they are "peak period shoulder lanes." The federal government said the eastbound lane can only be open 100 days a year, and the westbound lane can only be open 125 days a year.

That is the worst part of these "lanes". They really are never open. They "could" be open 100 to 125 days per year, but I suggest it is less in reality. Many, many times traffic has been backed up in the GP lanes just to have the so-called peak period lanes closed. What a waste of taxpayer dollars-two construction seasons of work for basically zero benefit.
So many miles and so many roads

Plutonic Panda

Lol I'll take the heat here I always drive in these lanes regardless. Come at me haha

Great Lakes Roads

Well, this project has since gotten a little bit crazier than I thought!

WB I-70 will be on a long bridge structure as you go down on Floyd Hill (and switch sides so EB I-70 will be to your right for about a half-mile)...

https://connect-lumenrt360projecttours.bentley.com/?UserId=2b3a199678e8c96249351c99ebc4d3e0&DataId=1b9a494a-f361-40b4-ada3-5a2a1453503e

Link to the public meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhpFlHrxydA

rte66man

Eisenhower Turns 50
https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/09/eisenhower-tunnel-turns-50-cdot-celebrates/

Quote
As Eisenhower Tunnel turns 50, Colorado celebrates with talk of a facelift for the crucial I-70 link
The highest point anywhere on I-70, the westbound tunnel and its eastbound twin have provided safe passage through the mountain for millions of vehicles.


Joshua Perry
3:40 AM MST on Mar 9, 2023

Thousands of vehicles travel through Eisenhower Tunnel on Interstate 70 each day. But on Wednesday, for a brief moment, the traffic stopped to let just three pass: a 1970 Plymouth Fury police cruiser, an antique fire truck, and a MG sports car of a similar vintage.

The procession was part of the Colorado Department of Transportation's celebration of the Eisenhower Tunnel's 50th anniversary.

Since the tunnel opened on March 8, 1973, millions of cars have crossed under the Continental Divide through the passage. When the ribbon was cut on the tunnel, 44.3 feet high and 47.5 feet wide, the $110 million price tag was the most expensive highway project ever embarked on by the U.S. government. Three men died during the five years of construction.

CDOT Executive Director Shoshana Lew said the Eisenhower Tunnel provided a safe, accessible alternative to driving on riskier mountain passes and changed the character of the state forever.

"For the last five decades, 50 years, the Eisenhower Tunnel has served as a great connector, tying east and west together in Colorado,"  she said, speaking to a small crowd at the tunnel's eastern opening. "It has provided a critical life saving link, moving goods and services, and helped to mark Colorado as a world class mountain destination."

Many travelers through the tunnel might not realize that it's more than just a simple passageway through the mountains. Managing the 1.7-mile passage requires a control room, where operators monitor the flow of traffic on walls of screens, a generator room, a sprinkler system, a water treatment system and even a fire truck.

Jessica Myklebust, CDOT's Denver metro region director, said the look of the tunnel, through which 524,151 vehicles passed last month, can be deceiving.

"It is an around-the-clock operation with men and women with special technical expertise who keep the tunnel open and safe,"  she said. "Since the tunnel opened in 1973, we have not had one fatality in either of the tunnels."

At 50, there's a certain historical charm to the look and feel of Eisenhower Tunnel, but it's also in need of regular maintenance, and maybe a makeover. Much of the equipment inside the tunnel system – like its 600-horsepower industrial fans (all 28 of them) capable of producing hurricane-force winds to clear noxious fumes – is original, or at least old.

As part of CDOT's 10 Year Plan for infrastructure investment, the Eisenhower Tunnel, and its eastbound partner, the slightly younger Johnson Tunnel, will have a $150 million update completed by 2024. Some minor work already has been done, but more robust renovation projects, like an automatic de-icing system, are slated to begin soon, CDOT spokesperson Presley Fowler said. However, it'll still be the tunnel Colorado's loved for 50 years, she said.

"We don't want to change the look and the feel of the tunnel,"  she said. "That's really been an important aspect while planning these infrastructure upgrades and repairs – making sure to honor the history."

For decades, the tunnel has made traveling through the mountains much safer and efficient, CDOT spokeswoman Tamara Rollison said. In her view, Colorado wouldn't be the state it is today without this critical link through its alpine reaches.

"It's hard for me to say what it's going to be like 50 years from now for the tunnel, but it will be here continuing to serve the state, I'm sure of that,"  Rollison said. "And it will continue to be a vital connection for years to come."
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Plutonic Panda


zzcarp

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2023, 01:34:42 PM
Update on the Floyd Hill project on track to be finished in 2028. Major construction will begin this month on the mainline:

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/i-70-floyd-hill-project-cdot-releases-a-detailed-look-at-the-massive-construction-project

QuoteKent Slaymaker, who also lives in Idaho Springs, said as a local, he has learned the patterns of traffic to avoid it.

"Unfortunately, building another lane isn't how you fix it," he said. "That causes induced demand, which creates more traffic. It's like buying more beer to quit drinking."

He said the third lane may help for a time, but it may also draw more people out to the mountains who believe traffic is lessened. He said he believes it will only result in three lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic instead of two.

"A lot of the time, construction takes so long that by the time you finish construction and it opens, induced demand has already filled up," he said. "And it's just as bad as it ever was. The real solution is public transportation, buses and a train, I guess, but buses would be more economical."

Of course we needed an ignorant anti-highway rant. The problems are the roadway geometry, the grades, lack of lanes to segregate slow traffic from fast traffic, and the weather. That said, the express lanes may fill up along with the GP lanes (if they are open-the so-called "express lanes" through Idaho Springs rarely are open even during congested times and and are priced at $7 the few moments when they are). And unless they're going to provide a dog-friendly shuttle bus to each trailhead along the corridor during the summer and increase the service to ski areas in the winter, public transit isn't going to divert a statistically significant number of trips.
So many miles and so many roads

Plutonic Panda

Yeah I just skipped through that part. I wonder what their solution is? Lemme guess, a train. . .

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: zzcarp on June 09, 2023, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2023, 01:34:42 PM
Update on the Floyd Hill project on track to be finished in 2028. Major construction will begin this month on the mainline:

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/i-70-floyd-hill-project-cdot-releases-a-detailed-look-at-the-massive-construction-project

QuoteKent Slaymaker, who also lives in Idaho Springs, said as a local, he has learned the patterns of traffic to avoid it.

"Unfortunately, building another lane isn't how you fix it," he said. "That causes induced demand, which creates more traffic. It's like buying more beer to quit drinking."

He said the third lane may help for a time, but it may also draw more people out to the mountains who believe traffic is lessened. He said he believes it will only result in three lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic instead of two.

"A lot of the time, construction takes so long that by the time you finish construction and it opens, induced demand has already filled up," he said. "And it's just as bad as it ever was. The real solution is public transportation, buses and a train, I guess, but buses would be more economical."

Of course we needed an ignorant anti-highway rant. The problems are the roadway geometry, the grades, lack of lanes to segregate slow traffic from fast traffic, and the weather. That said, the express lanes may fill up along with the GP lanes (if they are open-the so-called "express lanes" through Idaho Springs rarely are open even during congested times and and are priced at $7 the few moments when they are). And unless they're going to provide a dog-friendly shuttle bus to each trailhead along the corridor during the summer and increase the service to ski areas in the winter, public transit isn't going to divert a statistically significant number of trips.

The grades are frustrating, and I'm not sure what the fix is. In my 4-banger, I'm slow, but not 'truck-climbing-the-hill' slow. So I stick to the center lane, since all the trucks are in the far right and are struggling up the hill more than I am. I can hold 55 or so, and people seem pretty indignant at me. I'm passing trucks, but people are flying by me on the left. Those speed differences are what seem to be problematic.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

MCRoads

Quote from: zzcarp on June 09, 2023, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 09, 2023, 01:34:42 PM
Update on the Floyd Hill project on track to be finished in 2028. Major construction will begin this month on the mainline:

https://www.denver7.com/news/local-news/i-70-floyd-hill-project-cdot-releases-a-detailed-look-at-the-massive-construction-project

QuoteKent Slaymaker, who also lives in Idaho Springs, said as a local, he has learned the patterns of traffic to avoid it.

"Unfortunately, building another lane isn't how you fix it," he said. "That causes induced demand, which creates more traffic. It's like buying more beer to quit drinking."

He said the third lane may help for a time, but it may also draw more people out to the mountains who believe traffic is lessened. He said he believes it will only result in three lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic instead of two.

"A lot of the time, construction takes so long that by the time you finish construction and it opens, induced demand has already filled up," he said. "And it's just as bad as it ever was. The real solution is public transportation, buses and a train, I guess, but buses would be more economical."

Of course we needed an ignorant anti-highway rant. The problems are the roadway geometry, the grades, lack of lanes to segregate slow traffic from fast traffic, and the weather. That said, the express lanes may fill up along with the GP lanes (if they are open-the so-called "express lanes" through Idaho Springs rarely are open even during congested times and and are priced at $7 the few moments when they are). And unless they're going to provide a dog-friendly shuttle bus to each trailhead along the corridor during the summer and increase the service to ski areas in the winter, public transit isn't going to divert a statistically significant number of trips.

Gotta be honest, I agree with Kent there. Although this new alignment will help for a bit, I do think that a better solution is building more public transit to the mountains. And, as someone who can't drive, but may want to go up into the mountains at some point, I really don't have that many options at the moment. Its great that they are improving the highway, but it isn't a final solution. Induced demand is a real issue, that is demonstrably proven.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Plutonic Panda

How much traffic accounts for induced demand again? Why have any road wider than 2 lanes each way if that's the case. Kent has no valid point to make. Transit up the mountains won't do any good unless it's light rail or HSR which would cost billions.

MCRoads

#65
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn’t exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic? How about the previous project? Or the one before that?

The actual solution is to get people out of their cars, and into busses that actually work, and are cheaper than driving. Yes, a train would be great, but it’s not practical. Busses are economical, and they will get folks off the road, provided the buses are faster. Making the hard shoulder a “bus lane” would do that just fine, and with minimal cost to the existing project.
I build roads on Minecraft. Like, really good roads.
Interstates traveled:
4/5/10*/11**/12**/15/25*/29*/35(E/W[TX])/40*/44**/49(LA**)/55*/64**/65/66*/70°/71*76(PA*,CO*)/78*°/80*/95°/99(PA**,NY**)

*/** indicates a terminus/termini being traveled
° Indicates a gap (I.E Breezwood, PA.)

more room plz

Rothman



Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn't exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic?

It's more about demand already existing beyond capacity than it is about actual induced demand.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
The actual solution is to get people out of their cars, and into busses that actually work, and are cheaper than driving. Yes, a train would be great, but it's not practical. Busses are economical, and they will get folks off the road, provided the buses are faster. Making the hard shoulder a "bus lane"  would do that just fine, and with minimal cost to the existing project.

The problem isn't the cost; it's the time and convenience. I care about the environment. That said, when I worked downtown, I could drive and be there in 20 minutes. Taking the bus, lightrail, and then walking, was a 70 minute trip. I couldn't possibly justify taking public transportation.

Same thing going up to the mountains. You think people want to schlep all of their skis, winter clothes, boots, etc. onto a bus just to save $5 when their lift tickets cost them $200? Then they somehow have to transfer from wherever the bus let off to get to the hotel/slopes and schlep that same amount of stuff? Not happening.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn't exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic? How about the previous project? Or the one before that?

The actual solution is to get people out of their cars, and into busses that actually work, and are cheaper than driving. Yes, a train would be great, but it's not practical. Busses are economical, and they will get folks off the road, provided the buses are faster. Making the hard shoulder a "bus lane"  would do that just fine, and with minimal cost to the existing project.
I've already addressed this before and I'm not going to derail this thread about the Sepulveda pass in LA. I don't want to get into a bus to go to the mountains. I want to drive. I'm pretty sure bud services already exists. This is just another NIMBY not happy about growth requiring larger infrastructure that comes with it.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Rothman on June 16, 2023, 10:24:57 AM


Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn't exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic?

It's more about demand already existing beyond capacity than it is about actual induced demand.
And again how much demand is really going to be induced? If we're inducing demand which is getting more people out and exploring our great outdoors is that a bad thing? Are we aiming to either let these freeways rot so people are discouraged from using them thus not traveling up to the mountains or alternatively tolling it making only affordable for the affluent? How are those good things?

Arguably I could justify 8-10 lanes as bad as traffic gets but no I'm going to suggest LA sizing freeways here. But a modernization and expansion to six lanes is certainly going to help on some level and a long term strategy of building HSR and more localized transit infrastructure should be a goal. Neglecting this road in the name of induced demand which that person can't even give a number for isn't the answer.

zzcarp

Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 16, 2023, 10:33:55 AM
Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
The actual solution is to get people out of their cars, and into busses that actually work, and are cheaper than driving. Yes, a train would be great, but it's not practical. Busses are economical, and they will get folks off the road, provided the buses are faster. Making the hard shoulder a "bus lane"  would do that just fine, and with minimal cost to the existing project.

The problem isn't the cost; it's the time and convenience. I care about the environment. That said, when I worked downtown, I could drive and be there in 20 minutes. Taking the bus, lightrail, and then walking, was a 70 minute trip. I couldn't possibly justify taking public transportation.

Same thing going up to the mountains. You think people want to schlep all of their skis, winter clothes, boots, etc. onto a bus just to save $5 when their lift tickets cost them $200? Then they somehow have to transfer from wherever the bus let off to get to the hotel/slopes and schlep that same amount of stuff? Not happening.

Exactly. I live in Westminster and work in Inverness. While I drive the suck of I-25 daily where my commute varies from 40 minutes to an hour, it's 2 hours on RTD public transit from my office door to the bus stop 2 miles from my house which is another half hour or so. It's just not worth it.

There already is a weekend and holiday (except Christmas) public bus service through CDOT in the winter from December to early May on the "Snowstang". It's a $25 round trip from Denver to A-Basin, Copper Mountain, Breckenridge, and Loveland; and a $40 round trip to Steamboat Springs. It looks like there's only one bus per day to the resorts and one ride back. There's also other transit options listed for those who want that. But the demand for that doesn't seem to be high due to the reasons above and the last mile problem.
So many miles and so many roads

thenetwork

FWIW, CDOT runs a pretty decent statewide bus network called Bustang.  A few of its routes (like Denver to Grand Junction) pretty much follows an identical Greyhound route on a more-regional limit.  It runs several times a day, depending on the route.

I know some people think rail is the green answer to all I-70 mountain problems -- especially if it's am electric rail system.  The problem with rail is that by the time you plan and build it, the initial demographics and routing may be outdated  by the time the first train rolls.

At least with buses, the route can begin a fraction of the time.sooner and can change entire routes based on demand and popularity.

DenverBrian

Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn't exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic? How about the previous project? Or the one before that?
I diunno. 405 between Long Beach and Irvine has significantly better traffic flow in my experience with the additional lanes there. <shrugs>

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: thenetwork on June 16, 2023, 07:48:14 PM
FWIW, CDOT runs a pretty decent statewide bus network called Bustang.  A few of its routes (like Denver to Grand Junction) pretty much follows an identical Greyhound route on a more-regional limit.  It runs several times a day, depending on the route.

I know some people think rail is the green answer to all I-70 mountain problems -- especially if it's am electric rail system.  The problem with rail is that by the time you plan and build it, the initial demographics and routing may be outdated  by the time the first train rolls.

At least with buses, the route can begin a fraction of the time.sooner and can change entire routes based on demand and popularity.

+1 for the Bustang. If I have to go to Denver during the week, it's a no-brainer, and a 5-block walk down 16th street to my work. Ten bucks one-way.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 17, 2023, 09:21:36 AM
Quote from: MCRoads on June 16, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
As someone who says they are from LA, I find it hilarious that you are trying so hard to argue induced demand doesn't exist. I-405 is an excellent examples of this. Did the Sepulveda Pass project reduce congestion? Or did it simply add another lane of traffic? How about the previous project? Or the one before that?
I diunno. 405 between Long Beach and Irvine has significantly better traffic flow in my experience with the additional lanes there. <shrugs>
It really does. Outside of rush hour(and sometimes even then) traffic starts to flow much better in Orange County with wider roads



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