Random Thoughts

[Max Rockatansky]

If I was a robot, would I know?

[kphoger]

I really hope most Americans aren't gullible enough to believe that today, Cinco de Mayo, is a real holiday.  Not very many people in Mexico even care about this day much less celebrate it.  It was the liquor companies that made this fake holiday famous.

And for those of you wondering about Mexico's Independence Day, it is on September 16th; that day is equivalent to our July 4th.

Careful not to overstate your case.  It certainly is a "real holiday".

May 5th is not a statutory federal holiday in Mexico, nor is it widely commemorated with celebrations.  However, it is a statutory state holiday in Puebla, and schools are out nationwide.

https://calendariolaboral.com.mx/calendario-feriados-2012.html
https://www.gob.mx/sep?tab=Calendario%20escolar

[kphoger]

Cinco de Mayo and Orthodox Earth Day always fall on the same day and will until 2100 when the Julian calendar falls behind by one more day.

My wedding anniversary and Earth Day always fall on the same day anyway.   

[kenarmy]

Will people ever not think "Dodge" when talking about Ram, even though they have been separate brands for a while now?

[Max Rockatansky]

Will people ever not think "Dodge" when talking about Ram, even though they have been separate brands for a while now?

Doesn't help it wasn't necessary to divorce the Ram trucks from the Dodge line to begin with.  It's not like they are promoted as upscale trucks like the GMC variants are over Chevrolet.

[Scott5114]

Will people ever not think "Dodge" when talking about Ram, even though they have been separate brands for a while now?

Doesn't help it wasn't necessary to divorce the Ram trucks from the Dodge line to begin with.  It's not like they are promoted as upscale trucks like the GMC variants are over Chevrolet.

I think the problem was when they started wanting to have more than one truck carry the Ram name. People think of it as Dodge (company) Ram (model). If a Ram 57000 is materially different from a Ram 110237, that starts causing problems when people show up at the auto parts store wanting to buy parts for a "Dodge Ram".

Of course the better way to solve that problem would be to make the Ram 57000 be the Dodge Ram and the Ram 110237 the Dodge Horseradish or something, but corporate brain rot.

[hotdogPi]

If police/fire/ambulance sirens were a constant standardized pitch, say A440, it would be easier to tell which direction they're coming from based on the Doppler effect. Just make sure you take into account your own vehicle's motion, too.

[Max Rockatansky]

Will people ever not think "Dodge" when talking about Ram, even though they have been separate brands for a while now?

Doesn't help it wasn't necessary to divorce the Ram trucks from the Dodge line to begin with.  It's not like they are promoted as upscale trucks like the GMC variants are over Chevrolet.

I think the problem was when they started wanting to have more than one truck carry the Ram name. People think of it as Dodge (company) Ram (model). If a Ram 57000 is materially different from a Ram 110237, that starts causing problems when people show up at the auto parts store wanting to buy parts for a "Dodge Ram".

Of course the better way to solve that problem would be to make the Ram 57000 be the Dodge Ram and the Ram 110237 the Dodge Horseradish or something, but corporate brain rot.

I kind of prefer how Ford does it with conventions like F150, F250, F350 and so on.  GM got weird with calling their trucks different variations of the Silverado and Sierra.  It does seem superfluous to have stuff like Silverado 1500, Silverado 2500, Silverado 3500 and upward.

[formulanone]

Will people ever not think "Dodge" when talking about Ram, even though they have been separate brands for a while now?

Doesn't help it wasn't necessary to divorce the Ram trucks from the Dodge line to begin with.  It's not like they are promoted as upscale trucks like the GMC variants are over Chevrolet.

I think the problem was when they started wanting to have more than one truck carry the Ram name. People think of it as Dodge (company) Ram (model). If a Ram 57000 is materially different from a Ram 110237, that starts causing problems when people show up at the auto parts store wanting to buy parts for a "Dodge Ram".

Of course the better way to solve that problem would be to make the Ram 57000 be the Dodge Ram and the Ram 110237 the Dodge Horseradish or something, but corporate brain rot.

The domestic light-truck market numbering system is similarly aligned:

Ford: F150, F250, F350, ...
Chevy/GMC: 1500, 2500, 3500, ...
Ram: 1500, 2500, 3500, ...

In short, the light-duty pickups are in the 150x range (no diesels), medium-duty 250x (mix of gas and diesel varieties), and heavier-duty (diesel, some dual-wheel axles). So they get somewhat larger and loading/towing capacities increase as the number implies.

There's also the ranges (F450+ or 4500+) into the medium truck and heavy truck lines, and most of that stuff is custom-built on a bare chassis frame, engine, and transmission. Think of anything from the size of an ambulance, and larger. The greater vehicle weights (over 8000 pounds) and sizes classify these past "light trucks", for the sake of EPA regulations.

Because of the terrific amount of available options and aftermarket customization when you get to the 250x models, figuring out the exact trim levels can get tricky even at the dealership level, although the manufacturer usually has a pretty good idea of what was installed just before it left the factory.

There really wasn't much reason to create a RAM "brand", and it looks a bit foolish as it came of the heels of a brand that just shed over 700 franchises and dropped several models. In the light of new ownership, maybe the RAM brand posits itself as "All-American", though still mostly owned by the Italian FIAT Group. Interestingly, the Jeep brand has enough cache that there are now some standalone dealers for the brand, though it's my understanding that a Chrysler-Dodge-RAM franchise must come along for the ride (will look into this one day).

[Scott5114]

I wish car manufacturers wouldn't use numbers or letters at all. While, yeah, you can tell the relative fanciness of a Ford truck from its F number, there are dozens of cars that are just named like J7 or TZ or 6Q and things like that. Not being a car guy, I have no idea which one is which or even which model number is made by a particular company. If you say something like "Chevy Impala" I have a decent idea of about what sort of car you're talking about, but if you say "Lexus IS-350" or "Infinity Q50" that could be literally anything because I just don't remember random numbers and letters like that well.

[J N Winkler]

I wish car manufacturers wouldn't use numbers or letters at all. While, yeah, you can tell the relative fanciness of a Ford truck from its F number, there are dozens of cars that are just named like J7 or TZ or 6Q and things like that. Not being a car guy, I have no idea which one is which or even which model number is made by a particular company. If you say something like "Chevy Impala" I have a decent idea of about what sort of car you're talking about, but if you say "Lexus IS-350" or "Infinity Q50" that could be literally anything because I just don't remember random numbers and letters like that well.

With letters, numbers, or letter-number combinations, I find it is the pattern that matters, and it is inevitably easier to remember for marques or segments thereof I am interested in or with which I have passive familiarity.  It is otherwise no easier or harder than model names.

For example, I can explain the scheme for Lexus sedans off the top of my head (IS, ES, GS, and LS in roughly ascending order of fanciness, with the following number generally referring to engine displacement in liters times 100 until hybrid platforms and twin-turbo engines came on the scene), but I have no idea how it works for Lexus SUVs because I have zero interest in them.  For Toyota I understand the Camry well (we have one in the family fleet), but I can't tell you the difference between an Echo or a Yaris without running to Wikipedia.  I know the Acura Legend was a fancy car (an aunt owned one in the early 1990's), but again, I can't tell you where a TL fits in the model lineup without looking it up.

[kphoger]

It is otherwise no easier or harder than model names.

This is the pertinent part, I think, of what you said.

Current SEAT models sold in Mexico:  Arona, Ateca, Ibiza, León, Tarraco.  Can you tell by the names which is fancier than which?  I'm guessing not.

[Scott5114]

Given that I don't really pay much attention to cars other than to the extent necessary to not hit them with my own, I have not internalized any of these patterns, and don't really intend to. (I don't even know what "engine displacement" is without looking it up, so that figure is meaningless to me.)

The main way I come across car names is people describing a car to me when I'm not there to see it, e.g. someone telling me a story like "I was on I-35 and this idiot in a Toyota Yaris cut me off". At least with that, I am picturing a small car, even if I'm not familiar enough with the model that I could pick one out in a parking lot. If someone tells me they got cut off by a Lexus GS 62⅜, to my mind it could be anything from a golf cart to a school bus.

Hell, I've driven the same Pontiac G6 for 7 years and I still sometimes accidentally put that it's a G8 on forms before going back and correcting it. (Or even sometimes a G7, which would at least correctly indicate that Vladimir Putin is not welcome in my car.)

[Max Rockatansky]

I've always wondered what letter designations for trim levels meant, if anything.  Example: what did the "LT"  on my Sonic denote?  Did it mean I had the "Limited Trim?"   If so, what the hell did "LTZ"  stand for?

[kphoger]

The main way I come across car names is people describing a car to me when I'm not there to see it, e.g. someone telling me a story like "I was on I-35 and this idiot in a Toyota Yaris cut me off". At least with that, I am picturing a small car, even if I'm not familiar enough with the model that I could pick one out in a parking lot.

What is it about the name 'Yaris' that means 'a small car' to you?

If I didn't already know what a Toyota Yaris looked like, I couldn't have told you anything about its size.

[Scott5114]

Inherently? Nothing. But the model name has percolated to me through cultural osmosis so I at least remember that it is a subcompact.

A number/letter system is more orderly and lets you compare two cars, but if you have no context for where the range starts and ends, it is just a difficult to remember string of characters. It was mentioned upthread that the cheapest Ram is the 1500, but without that context, it could easily be a mid-range product that's 15 levels higher than a Ram 100. (Or a top-end product 1500 times as good as a Ram 1!) And the Lexus prefix letters that J.N. Winkler quotes don't form any sort of obvious pattern to me.

If you wanted to make it 100% orderly, you could just do away with model names altogether and print the VIN on the tailgate. Sure, nobody could remember it, but it would be orderly.

[Takumi]

The idea behind the general alphanumeric car naming scheme is to put emphasis on the brand name as opposed to the model name. The Germans have been doing that for some time, and Lexus and Infiniti followed suit upon their debuts, with Acura, Lincoln, and Cadillac doing so later. (When Hyundai spun Genesis off into its own brand a few years ago, they also used an alphanumeric naming system for it.) Lincoln has gone back to actual names for its models, and Acura is, somewhat controversially*, reviving the Integra name to replace the entry-level ILX.

*by “somewhat controversially”, I mean “a bunch of 19-year-old internet neckbeards who aren’t buying new cars anyway are complaining that the name is being used on a 5-door hatchback instead of a coupe, when Civic coupe sales dwindled to the point that Honda didn’t bother making a new one when the current Civic came out”.

[Takumi]

I've always wondered what letter designations for trim levels meant, if anything.  Example: what did the "LT"  on my Sonic denote?  Did it mean I had the "Limited Trim?"   If so, what the hell did "LTZ"  stand for?

Multiple manufacturers have used the "RS"  and "GT"  trims. Do they always stand for the same things, if anything at all? (For at least two of the manufacturers that use RS, I know for Chevrolet and Audi respectively it stands for "Rally Sport"  and "Rennsport" , which is German for "racing sport" , but I don't know what, if anything, the RS in the Ford Focus RS stood for, or if Honda's use of it only in certain markets like Asia is because another brand owns the trademark for whatever it stands for elsewhere.)

[J N Winkler]

Lexus sedan prefixes decoded:

*  IS = Intelligent Sport (Lexus' BMW 3-series killer and a very distant conceptual successor to the Cadillac Cimarron; on paper it looks like an ideal fit for someone who wants luxury that is fun to drive and easy to park, but its customer satisfaction ratings are consistently poor)

*  ES = Executive Sedan (the only FWD sedan, and basically a really expensive Camry--I don't know why people buy it)

*  GS = Grand Sedan (like the LS, but a step down, and I like it less than I feel I should after looking at its specs)

*  LS = Luxury Sedan (top of the line)

Many of these models were actually sold as Toyotas under various model names in Japan before the Lexus brand was introduced there.  For example, the LS was the Toyota Celsior, while the GS was the Toyota Aristo.

Though I've never actually owned one, I'm a Lexus enthusiast to the extent that I have downloaded and read the New Car Features books Toyota has published for each new generation of the IS, GS, ES, and LS.  (In most model years these are just 20 pages long--not much longer than a car brochure--but in the first year of a major redesign they often run to more than 200 pages, with detailed descriptions of design innovations in various vehicle systems.)

The original LS was famous for its 4.0 L V8 engine, whose smoothness Lexus demonstrated in an iconic wineglass commercial.  With RWD and double wishbone suspension, it also handled more nimbly than a FWD car.  A few years ago, I actually considered getting a 1994 specimen as a hobby vehicle, but had to back away from the idea after some due diligence followed by a test drive.  Going in, I knew about expensive parts (all Lexus OEM parts come from Japan; Toyota OEM parts are significantly cheaper and not noticeably less reliable), 20 MPG highway on premium gas, first-generation tech with not all bugs worked out, and leaking capacitor disease, but had not realized that the suspension design means it sidles from side to side like a crab on long curved ramps unless the shock absorbers are fresh.

I don't even know what "engine displacement" is without looking it up, so that figure is meaningless to me.

It is the volume within the cylinders that is swept by the pistons (it does not include volume within the combustion chambers), and is used as a rough guide to power output.  As such, it also functions as a proxy for penis length, testicle circumference, etc.

Personally, I tend to be more interested in long-term durability (including the absence of oil consumption), smoothness, and power output per unit of weight (preferably 0.055 hp/lb or more).  For a 3500 lb midsize car that tends to translate into a 3.0 L normally aspirated V6 with about 200 hp, though my daily driver is actually a 2200 lb compact whose 1.9 L I4 outputs 124 hp, sounds like a coffee grinder, and has an oil habit.  (Turbos are now quite popular and wring the same output from much smaller displacements.  However, I distrust them because I'm not sure how well they control sludging.)

[Takumi]

*  GS = Grand Sedan (like the LS, but a step down, and I like it less than I feel I should after looking at its specs)

You aren't alone in that. The GS never sold as well as its siblings, and was finally discontinued in August 2020. Adding AWD to the ES finally did the GS in, as the Camry-based car was cheaper than the GS, which was on the same chassis as Toyota Japan's flagship Crown.

I've mentioned it here before, but I've owned one of each of the first two generations of GS/Aristo. The first one was a 2004 GS300, of the second generation (98-05), which was slow and thirsty, but comfortable and surprisingly fun to throw around. At 250,000 miles, it wasn't exactly factory fresh, but it was reliable apart from some issues caused by human error. I replaced it with an imported 1992 Aristo, with the famous twin turbo inline 6 shared with the 4th generation Supra. When it works, it's the best car I've ever owned, but it doesn't work enough for my taste so I'm planning to get rid of it soon. You probably made the right decision by not buying that LS.

[formulanone]

UX = based on the CH-R
NX = based on the RAV4
RX = based on the Highlander
GX = own model, no exact US equivalent
LX = Land Cruiser

SC = Soarer
RC = 2-door IS
LC = bespoke model
LFA = Spaceship!
HS = Prius
CT = Prius
LM = Toyota Alphard (a minivan; Japan / China only model)

*  ES = Executive Sedan (the only FWD sedan, and basically a really expensive Camry--I don't know why people buy it)

Although the Lexus ES was built in Japan for many years, the latest generation ES is based on the Avalon. It's also built in the Georgetown, Kentucky plant alongside the Camry (oddly the VIN begins with a 5, though Camrys start with a 4).

*  GS = Grand Sedan (like the LS, but a step down, and I like it less than I feel I should after looking at its specs)

The second generation were actually built like tanks; some detail improvements with the 2001-05 model years. Basically, a sportier version of the LS but with less rear-seat legroom, and rear-wheel-drive instead of the ES...a Mercedes E-class / BMW 5-series / Audi A6 competitor.

[Takumi]

^ Technically the LC continues the Soarer-sourced chassis code, as well. The last Soarer-badged car had a chassis code of Z40, the fourth generation of Soarer. It was sold outside of Japan as the SC430, and became that in Japan as well when Lexus was introduced to Japan in 2005, until its discontinuation in 2010. When the LC came out it got the chassis code Z100, so it’s not a directly new Soarer but it fills the same niche that the SC/Soarer did. (Acura did a similar thing with the ILX and new Integra, picking up where the RSX left off with a gap. The RSX/4th gen Integra was chassis code DC5, the ILX had chassis codes DE1-DE3, and the 2023 Integra is the DE4, with the rumored Type S likely to be the DE5. The ILX’s predecessor, the Canada-only CSX, used a Civic-based chassis code.)

The GX is based on the international Land Cruiser Prado, earlier generations of which are only recently starting to show up in the US as a product of the 90s JDM boom. The Prado is lighter duty than your standard Land Cruiser of the same age, but can be the same size.

The Avalon going away makes me wonder what the future of the ES will be.

[hotdogPi]

How many sides does an ontonagon have?

[formulanone]

How many sides does an ontonagon have?

A few more than a pokagon.

[kphoger]

How many sides does an ontonagon have?

Due to the curvature of the Lake Superior shoreline, it is not a polygon.