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Milwaukee area freeways

Started by triplemultiplex, February 22, 2011, 03:58:28 PM

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SSOWorld

241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.


GeekJedi

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:

That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

FightingIrish

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:
The question is, does the state maintain Seven Mile Road between the two frontage roads and under I-41/94?

SSOWorld

Quote from: GeekJedi on June 25, 2022, 11:45:35 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2022, 07:50:00 PM
241 does at end the interchange - the state puts END markers well ahead of the end (there are a few exceptions)

Packers have "Titletown", Bucks have a shot-up ;) "Deer District" - why not give the Brewers a strip mall called the "Beer Garden"? :bigass:

That must've been a recent change. 241 used to end at 7 Mile Rd.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNdRcLs9xbUm6nR66
there was no end sign. ;)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

hobsini2

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

FightingIrish

Quote from: hobsini2 on June 27, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.
Keep in mind, the frontage road in Racine County is actually considered part of I-41/94. Thus, it's already a state highway. Therefore, running WIS 241 along it doesn't make any difference in administered mileage.

And that also explains my theory about WIS 241 ending right before the interchange, where the West Frontage Road picks up and proceeds south from Seven Mile Road.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: hobsini2 on June 27, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 23, 2022, 04:59:26 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 23, 2022, 12:15:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 23, 2022, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 14, 2022, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2021, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2021, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on March 06, 2019, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 06, 2019, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 05, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Nothing's logical with WisDOT.
The Elm Rd interchange itself is not logical. I don't get what purpose it would serve. Elm Rd ends just to the west at 27th street and just to the east at 13th street. There is nothing of major significance on either side that would warrant an interchange. If Elm Rd went farther east to Howell Ave I would get it as there is a new industrial park being built there.


There's quite a number of businesses along 27th Street that likely counted on access that the original exit used to provide.  And that area has been growing more and more.  Having an interchange between 7 Mile Road and Ryan Road makes sense and putting one at Oakwood wasn't going to be easy.
Using Seven Mile Road interchange would have worked just fine.

Not really.
Why do you say that? It's less than a mile south of where the old interchange was. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be used for 27th street traffic.

Look at a map. It is completely inconvenient with the routing 27th Street takes there. Especially considering that growth is likely to continue to occur there. Getting the Elm St interchange built makes perfect sense.
The Seven Mile Road interchange is definitely not a suitable substitute for the former 27th Street one. For one, it involves winding around a busy two-lane frontage road, that gets very busy during the warmer months because of Seven Mile Fair.

It is only marked as WIS 241 because 27th Street becomes the west Frontage Rd., and that's already a state-maintained route anyway. Notice that WIS 241 actually ends just before the Seven Mile interchange, as the SB Frontage Rd. picks up again?

As for accessing 27th St, the new Elm Rd. exit is effective, and will become even more so as businesses start to build in that expanded area.

If the state saw it that way, why didn't they just realign 241 onto Elm Rd and have 27th St south of Elm become a county road? Just sayin.


It's likely due to the wierdness about mileage in different counties that WIDOT uses to base these decisions.  Relocation would reduce WI-241's mileage in two counties.  And both would likely rather have the current route maintained as a state highway than the new route.


Maybe but I don't think so because 241's mileage in Milwaukee County wouldn't change much. Elm Rd is about 1/3 mile. 27th St is 1/2 mile. And Racine County would have zero as a result.  I think in the days of the old interchange, they may have had 1/4 mile if that.


This doesn't refute anything I said.

Regardless, my overall point is that WIDOT's signing of WI-241 has little to do with what their "preferred route" to get from I-41/94 to South 27th Street.

rte66man

I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee

Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee

The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022

MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.

The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.

The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!"  effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.

This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.

"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."

The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

SEWIGuy

#383
Quote from: rte66man on September 07, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee

Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee

The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022

MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.

The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.

The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!"  effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.

This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.

"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."

The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.


I am fully in support of this!

triplemultiplex

Not the first time it has been proposed to demolish that stretch of 794. So here we go again.
This came up 20 years ago as planning started to rebuild the Marquette Interchange.
It came up again ~10 years ago during planning to resurface the Hoan and reconfigure the Lake Interchange.

What makes this viable in my mind is that very little traffic on this freeway is actually thru traffic.  Nearly everyone has an origin/destination somewhere downtown or on the lakefront so really the freeway is primarily only being used to spare a couple of minutes for that traffic.  While there is a continuous freeway, functionally it's basically another Park East in terms of the way it is used: a long off-ramp.

I am skeptical of how in demand the potential land will be for redevelopment in the intermediate term.  It took a decade before things started filling in the blocks vacated by the Park East, and some still sit vacant 20 year later.
The block vacated by the removed pigtail onramp at Michigan and Lovell remains undeveloped more than 15 years later.
Perhaps most obnoxiously, the supposedly super-valuable chunk of land freed up by shifting around the ramps at the Lake Interchange many years ago now still is vacant.  What's the deal there? What happened to all the renderings of a skyscraper?
On top of that, downtown Milwaukee is still lousy with surface parking lots that could be utilized far more effectively for a dense, urban environment.

All this suggests to me that leveling 794 means that 30-whatever acres of land will sit empty for at least a decade. Evidence suggests the market for downtown real estate isn't "hot" enough to do anything with that land.  It'll be a patch of bare ground where the gulls shit, just like the Park East.

Unless someone comes up with a concrete plan to actually use that land before we commit to smashing viaducts.  That would be novel!  Not to mention it would give fuel to the concept of downgrading these types of urban freeway spurs if folks could see buildings going up as soon as the freeway comes down. Much better look than having those parcels remain barren wastelands for an entire generation.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

mgk920

One can also trace most of the former Chicago and Northwestern Railway's track routing showing how they got to their former Lakefront Station south of the Summerfest Grounds (their *gorgeous* station itself was off of the east end of Wisconsin Ave) on current satellite images.  that station was removed by the early-mid 1960s.

The best option that I recently saw for I-794 there is an interstate standard curve that was drawn about 3-5 years ago.  It maintains the connections and also has lots of surplus ROW that can be sold off for development.  Remember that until the early 1960s, the Summerfest Grounds itself was a US Military base.

Mike

The Ghostbuster

I would oppose demolishing the Lake Interchange. After all, they just reconfigured where the ramps terminate. I would support moving the ramps of the Lake Interchange (and the Jackson St./Van Buren St. interchange) to the right-hand side. I would also support making 794 three lanes in both directions through those interchanges.

SEWIGuy

I think they should just tear down I-794.  It really is an eyesore that acts as a barrier between downtown and the Third Ward.  I think triplemultiplex is right that the developmental opportunities are being overstated in the short term, but in the long term this would be a much better option than replacing as is.

Getting rid of the Park East was a fantastic development for the north side of downtown.  That neighborhood has grown tremendously in every way.  And remember that one of the reasons that corridor took so long to develop was due to both a huge real estate recession and overly restrictive development covenants initially put in place by Milwaukee County.

In the long run, the development will happen.  A much better alternative than rebuilding the entire interstate.

skluth

I haven't been to Milwaukee's lakefront since seeing Jimmy Buffett at Summerfest in 1987 so feel free to criticize anything that is out of date.

I think I-794 should continue in its current ROW from the Marquette Interchange to and including the Hoan Bridge. I also think much of the Lake Interchange should be torn down. There are far more ramps there than needed. Keep the ramps between the bridge and Clybourn and keep one set of ramps going to/from the west, most likely the Jackson St ramps; this leaves some left side on/off ramps but I don't think it will matter much given current traffic patterns. The remaining freed-up land can still be developed. The comparison to the Park Freeway is irrelevant as the land near the lake is potentially far more valuable than land along the northwest edge of downtown and, despite claims above, Park East is at least 90% developed and what's left is now pretty valuable; 1.3 acres there recently sold for $5M for a residential development. Imagine how much property might be sold for a high-rise overlooking both the Summerfest Grounds and Lake Michigan (and the subsequent property tax haul).

OTOH, I have no problem with WI 794 being converted to a surface boulevard south of Carferry Drive. And maybe leave a ramp to nowhere for Illinois Nazis to fly off.

thspfc

One BILLION dollars worth of land? Yeah, tear that thing down. Turn 794 into a boulevard that ends at Milwaukee St, and make the Hoan Bridge an extension of Lincoln Memorial.

Alps

I'm not a fan of this for one reason: so much of Milwaukee is blighted right now. You just gonna stick some nice high-priced stuff in one corner and let everything else rot? No. Fix your city from the inside out first.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Alps on September 07, 2022, 10:40:52 PM
I'm not a fan of this for one reason: so much of Milwaukee is blighted right now. You just gonna stick some nice high-priced stuff in one corner and let everything else rot? No. Fix your city from the inside out first.


You think Milwaukee is blighted now?  You should have seen it a generation ago. Honestly, this sounds like a statement made by someone who doesn't understand how the city has positively changed.  I went to Marquette 30+ years ago, and there are parts of the city that have been completely transformed.  Places that I was told to never go as a student where people are now living, working and recreating.

Furthermore, tearing down this freeway is PART of fixing the city from the "inside out." Encouraging additional investment, additional places for people to live and work instead of hightailing it out to the suburbs like they did when I was a young professional, is part of that. The city still has fixes to make, but your statement is pretty ignorant of what has already occurred.

Hobart

Quote from: rte66man on September 07, 2022, 10:31:46 AM
I didn't know if this should have its own thread. Mods, feel free to move it if you like.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/environmental-advocacy-group-leads-effort-to-demolish-lake-interchange-in-milwaukee

Quote
Environmental advocacy group leads effort to demolish Lake Interchange in Milwaukee

The grassroots effort comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

By: Madison GoldbeckPosted at 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022 and last updated 6:38 PM, Sep 06, 2022

MILWAUKEE – An environmental advocacy group is leading an effort to demolish the Lake Interchange in downtown Milwaukee to clear land for development, according to our partners at the Milwaukee Business Journal.

The grassroots effort from 1000 Friends of Wisconsin comes as the Wisconsin Department of Transportation (DOT) takes its first steps to replace aging bridges in the interchange.

Last week the DOT opened its website to plan for the future of 28 bridges connecting east-west Interchange 794 downtown to the northern edge of the Hoan Bridge, as well as off-ramps onto local streets, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. The central links, which date to the mid-1970s, need a full rebuild in order to remain safe. In December of 2021, DOT officials estimated the rebuild would cost $300 million.

The cost sparked "a lot of grassroots local interest," transportation policy director Gregg May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. May has since helped organize the "Rethink 794 in MKE, Reconnect the Grid!"  effort. It proposes removing the new and old I-794 bridges from Sixth Street on the west and East Chicago Street on the south, the Milwaukee Business Journal reports. May said Clybourn Street could become a two-way boulevard and make the same connection between the remaining Hoan Bridge, and Marquette Interchange to the west.

This would open nearly 32.5 acres for new development, and according to studies the group performed with a volunteer broker, would be valued at more than $1 billion.

"Removing highways can be cheaper than repairing or replacing them," May told the Milwaukee Business Journal. "Just because we have spent a lot of money on this project doesn't mean it should stick around."

The DOT does not expect to finalize a plan until November 2023 with the earliest construction beginning in 2025. A public comment period is yet to come.

Honestly, given what I've heard about the Park East Freeway, I think they need to give I-794 the old McKinley Avenue treatment. It's never been busy when I've been on it, almost everybody gets off before the Hoan, and it's a huge eyesore that divides the historic third ward from downtown, a division caused by the freeway.

The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.

In regards to the real estate use, I honestly wouldn't even mind if there weren't any businesses at all on the right of way; it would be very cool if it were a public park in the median of the boulevard.

If this were fictional highways, I'd personally propose putting the thing in a trench, or "big digging" it out so we can have our cake and eat it too. This is obviously expensive, impractical, and makes connecting to the Hoan difficult.

Also, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PM
The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.

Thought about mentioning that topic in my initial reply.  Useful as the Port of Milwaukee is, it ain't exactly Long Beach, so there's not the volume of trucks for that to be super concerning.  Especially since I think many, if not most, trucks use Becher Street from 43/94 to get to their port destinations anyway.

Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PMAlso, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?

Big ass roundabout!!
:bigass: :bigass:
I'd be curious to see if they could come up with a way to feed the Jackson & Van Buren without forcing cars to use the proposed Clybourn boulevard.  Something like the east end of St. Paul becoming an onramp curving onto the Hoan and then a NB roadway paralleling it and curving to flow into Van Buren.
I might try and sketch something up with what I'm thinking.

Naturally, this would mean the death of 794 as a 3DI.  With WI 794 already in existence as the Lake Parkway, I would expect that designation to get extended north over the Hoan and turn west at Clybourn to the remaining stub feeding the Marquette Interchange.

That is, if they end up going forward with this idea.  It's going to be years before any decision is made and up to a decade before anything happens, I predict.  So lots of time for things to shift one way or another.  Think about how much has changed since planning started to rebuild the Marquette.  And then how much has changed since this freeway was first constructed.  That 3rd Ward was very "rust-belty" and the lakefront was an under-utilized military installation in the 60's.  The Milwaukee River seemed hopelessly polluted.

Milwaukee of 2030 is not the Milwaukee of 2000 or the Milwaukee of 1970.  Previous attempts to rip down 794 fizzled for various reasons, but things feel different now.  I'd put the odds of it actually happening at over 50% this time.  It will be interesting to follow.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

skluth

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 08, 2022, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PM
The only concern I'd have is with trucks trying to get to the Port of Milwaukee. The Lake Parkway southward extension might help, but it would be somewhat painful for all of the heavy truck traffic to go through downtown on a surface level boulevard.

Thought about mentioning that topic in my initial reply.  Useful as the Port of Milwaukee is, it ain't exactly Long Beach, so there's not the volume of trucks for that to be super concerning.  Especially since I think many, if not most, trucks use Becher Street from 43/94 to get to their port destinations anyway.

Quote from: Hobart on September 08, 2022, 01:20:30 PMAlso, out of curiosity, would they continue to have the boulevard run directly onto the Hoan, or would they put a massive intersection at the end of the boulevard with Lincoln Memorial Drive, and have Lincoln Memorial Drive run over the bridge?

Big ass roundabout!!
:bigass: :bigass:
I'd be curious to see if they could come up with a way to feed the Jackson & Van Buren without forcing cars to use the proposed Clybourn boulevard.  Something like the east end of St. Paul becoming an onramp curving onto the Hoan and then a NB roadway paralleling it and curving to flow into Van Buren.
I might try and sketch something up with what I'm thinking.

Naturally, this would mean the death of 794 as a 3DI.  With WI 794 already in existence as the Lake Parkway, I would expect that designation to get extended north over the Hoan and turn west at Clybourn to the remaining stub feeding the Marquette Interchange.

That is, if they end up going forward with this idea.  It's going to be years before any decision is made and up to a decade before anything happens, I predict.  So lots of time for things to shift one way or another.  Think about how much has changed since planning started to rebuild the Marquette.  And then how much has changed since this freeway was first constructed.  That 3rd Ward was very "rust-belty" and the lakefront was an under-utilized military installation in the 60's.  The Milwaukee River seemed hopelessly polluted.

Milwaukee of 2030 is not the Milwaukee of 2000 or the Milwaukee of 1970.  Previous attempts to rip down 794 fizzled for various reasons, but things feel different now.  I'd put the odds of it actually happening at over 50% this time.  It will be interesting to follow.

I don't think it would necessarily be the end of I-794 considering that I-175 and I-375 in St Pete are pretty short. I like the Big Roundabout idea there actually, though it might be hell when the big concerts let out from Summerfest.

JoePCool14

I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.

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GeekJedi

Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.

Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.
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dvferyance

Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
I thought that was a dead issue long ago.

SSOWorld

Quote from: dvferyance on September 19, 2022, 04:35:19 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.
I thought that was a dead issue long ago.
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SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on September 19, 2022, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on September 12, 2022, 04:49:14 PM
I would prefer 794 not to be dismantled. Milwaukee doesn't have great public transit to make-up for the difference and 94 is busy enough as it is. I'd rather have the traffic use highways than clog up surface streets. 794 is not just a short freeway stub, it's a connection to the lakeshore areas further south, even down to Racine County.

Agreed. I also think that it benefits the residents of Bay View and that area. It can be a challenge to get to that area by going south on 94 then east on surface streets. That was the whole reason for opening the Lake Parkway in the first place.


A removal of I-794 between the Marquette wouldn't mean a removal of the bridge or the Lake Parkway.  You would just need to drive on a surface street for a few blocks.



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