New Otay Mesa Port of Entry?

[Voyager]

Saw this on Twitter, is this referring to CA 11 or a new one?

https://x.com/CAgovernor/status/1864826003136352638

[jrouse]

He's referring to Otay Mesa East.   The State, SANDAG, and Customs and Border Protection have been negotiating for the last several years on how to cover the costs of building and operating the new POE.  I can only assume they figured out those details.

[The Ghostbuster]

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

[74/171FAN]

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

Well Travel Mapping answers that.

@roadwaywiz95 even has a video of it from 2020.

[Great Lakes Roads]

WTF is this? 

[74/171FAN]

WTF is this? 

The better question IMO is if this is even legal.  I would expect FHWA to treat this situation like I-80 in PA.

[pderocco]

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

Sure, I've driven it, both ways. I can't imagine them bothering to add those movements, though, since you'd only be bypassing a short stretch of surface streets.

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

[pderocco]

WTF is this? 

Maybe it would be better just to build The Wall, and block the Tijuana River.

[TheStranger]

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

IIRC, the final portion of 905 from 125 south was originally part of the planned 125 until the 80s, when it was moved over to 905 instead.  (My guess is that the portion of 125 from there to 94 was so far from having construction start back then, so transferring it to the nearby existing state route was the logic)

[vdeane]

WTF is this? 

The better question IMO is if this is even legal.  I would expect FHWA to treat this situation like I-80 in PA.

1. It's not an interstate.
2. CA 11 is already a toll road.
3. This kind of thing (diverting road toll money to something else) already happens on several toll roads out east, but it's always been for transit, not sewage treatment plants.

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

Sure, I've driven it, both ways. I can't imagine them bothering to add those movements, though, since you'd only be bypassing a short stretch of surface streets.

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

I'm assuming it has something to do with CA 11 and CA 125 being toll roads and CA 905 being free.

[pderocco]

WTF is this? 

The better question IMO is if this is even legal.  I would expect FHWA to treat this situation like I-80 in PA.

1. It's not an interstate.
2. CA 11 is already a toll road.
3. This kind of thing (diverting road toll money to something else) already happens on several toll roads out east, but it's always been for transit, not sewage treatment plants.

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

Sure, I've driven it, both ways. I can't imagine them bothering to add those movements, though, since you'd only be bypassing a short stretch of surface streets.

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

I'm assuming it has something to do with CA 11 and CA 125 being toll roads and CA 905 being free.

CA-11 isn't a toll road yet, except maybe in some clause in the lawbooks. And I think it would be silly to make it a toll road between the interchange and Siempre Viva, since that's useful to reduce local surface road truck traffic. I would think the only toll on CA-11 would be the border crossing itself. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but when CA-125 was envisioned, the idea of a third border crossing hadn't occurred to anyone yet.

Renumbering the freeways to be more rational would be easy because no one has an address on them that would need to change.

[TheStranger]

CA-11 isn't a toll road yet, except maybe in some clause in the lawbooks. And I think it would be silly to make it a toll road between the interchange and Siempre Viva, since that's useful to reduce local surface road truck traffic. I would think the only toll on CA-11 would be the border crossing itself. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but when CA-125 was envisioned, the idea of a third border crossing hadn't occurred to anyone yet.

Renumbering the freeways to be more rational would be easy because no one has an address on them that would need to change.

The interchange configuration already has 905 making the turn to the original Otay Mesa border crossing - as noted earlier, the road from 125/11/905 south to the border was part of an extended 125 plan originally, but got added to 905's definition some time later.

Per CAHighways/Dan Faigin's site:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE125.html

In 1963, Route 125 was defined as the route from "Route 75 near Brown Field to Route 56 passing near La Mesa." The Route 75 referenced in this definition was a segment of Route 75 defined at that time as "Route 125 east of Brown Field to Route 5 near the south end of San Diego Bay." In 1972, a new definition of Route 117 was created (the previous one having been deleted in 1965) was was defined as " "the international boundary near Borderfield northeasterly to Route 5." These come together because, in 1975, the 1963 segment of Route 75 was transferred to Route 117 (and, in 1983, to Route 905).

As for Route 11, more information on its status as a (future?) toll project can be found here:
https://cahighways.org/ROUTE011.html

[jrouse]

WTF is this? 

The better question IMO is if this is even legal.  I would expect FHWA to treat this situation like I-80 in PA.

1. It's not an interstate.
2. CA 11 is already a toll road.
3. This kind of thing (diverting road toll money to something else) already happens on several toll roads out east, but it's always been for transit, not sewage treatment plants.

Has anyone actually driven on CA 11? Sure, at 1.7-miles, it is not much to write home about. Are there any plans to construct 905W-to-11E or 11W-to-905E ramps at the 11/125/905 interchange? Those connections seem to have been left out when the interchange was constructed.

Sure, I've driven it, both ways. I can't imagine them bothering to add those movements, though, since you'd only be bypassing a short stretch of surface streets.

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

I'm assuming it has something to do with CA 11 and CA 125 being toll roads and CA 905 being free.

CA-11 isn't a toll road yet, except maybe in some clause in the lawbooks. And I think it would be silly to make it a toll road between the interchange and Siempre Viva, since that's useful to reduce local surface road truck traffic. I would think the only toll on CA-11 would be the border crossing itself. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but when CA-125 was envisioned, the idea of a third border crossing hadn't occurred to anyone yet.

Renumbering the freeways to be more rational would be easy because no one has an address on them that would need to change.

Legislation allowing for tolls on SR-11 has been in place for a number of years.  The enabling statute explicitly limits the tolls to be used within the SR-11 corridor.

The plan has been to put the toll point just past the POE but there was some talk of perhaps having the toll collected on the Mexican side.  I don't know if a decision has been made on that.

[pderocco]

Legislation allowing for tolls on SR-11 has been in place for a number of years.  The enabling statute explicitly limits the tolls to be used within the SR-11 corridor.

The plan has been to put the toll point just past the POE but there was some talk of perhaps having the toll collected on the Mexican side.  I don't know if a decision has been made on that.

Is it a two-way toll, or entry only?

[jrouse]

Not sure.

[mrsman]

I wish they had put in a more conventional interchange, and renumbered the roads so that 905 goes to the new Otay East crossing, and 125 comes down to the Otay West crossing, with no route 11. It's a pretty harebrained interchange.

IIRC, the final portion of 905 from 125 south was originally part of the planned 125 until the 80s, when it was moved over to 905 instead.  (My guess is that the portion of 125 from there to 94 was so far from having construction start back then, so transferring it to the nearby existing state route was the logic)

I agree that it makes perfect sense to make these changes, but it is unlikely that such changes will be made.  Once something has already been established, especially with signage, it is unlikely that there is enough interest in spending the money on new signage to change the designations, even if they may make more sense overall.

As stated by others above, the original 905 led to the original Otay Mesa crossing, even before there was any 125 or 11.  It seems like it was easier to just keep this the way it was, despite the complexity.