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Started by Alex, August 18, 2009, 12:34:57 AM

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Rothman

When consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


kernals12

Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Rothman

Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Oh, go away.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.
Despite your government's best efforts, no it isn't.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

kernals12

Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Oh, go away.

What? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings

kalvado

Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Oh, go away.

What? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings
I hate to disappo9int you, but most highways don't consume any illegal substances.

kernals12

Quote from: kalvado on January 24, 2025, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Oh, go away.

What? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings
I hate to disappo9int you, but most highways don't consume any illegal substances.
Huh?

Roadgeek Adam

Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Hey, I get it, making millions to make a report about something that will never happen is a fantastic way to get free money from the government.
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

kalvado

Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:54:00 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 24, 2025, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 24, 2025, 07:10:30 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 01:28:30 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 23, 2025, 11:28:35 PMWhen consultants make millions on studies that will go nowhere (e.g., LI Sound bridges or Rooftop Expressway), I do feel a tinge of career jealousy.

Rooftop Expressway is such a misleading name.

Oh, go away.

What? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings
I hate to disappo9int you, but most highways don't consume any illegal substances.
Huh?
Same as with rooftop highway not traveling on actual roofs, most highways are not high or drunk. Most of the time, at least

D-Dey65

Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 23, 2025, 07:25:22 PMAnd speaking of road projects that should've been built decades ago, I see that somebody posted a Long Island Rail Road bridge in Wikimedia Commons this month, which after some research, I was reminded that it was NY 25 in Laurel. This looks like it was designed for the installation of future separate eastbound lanes. Too bad the low clearance made it less than truck friendly, and necessitated the North Fork extension of the Long Island Expressway, which was also never built.

You know, I just got another image of that bridge from the opposite direction. I'm not sure that there was any room for a second lane, because there almost as much embankment space in the opposite direction going westbound as there is going eastbound.


D-Dey65

Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:34:06 AMWhat? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings
You do know it refers to the "rooftop" of New York State, don't you?


kernals12

Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 29, 2025, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on January 24, 2025, 09:34:06 AMWhat? It sounds like a highway that travels atop the roofs of buildings
You do know it refers to the "rooftop" of New York State, don't you?


No I did not know that. Nobody does apparently, seeing as how a google search for "New York rooftop" brings up only listings for rooftop bars in New York City.

vdeane

Meanwhile, a search for "Rooftop Highway" returns a ton of relevant results.  Don't even need to specify New York.  Personally, I preferred "Northern Tier Expressway" myself, but the former is what the media and public preferred.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

The Ghostbuster

New York doesn't need a Rooftop Highway. The traffic counts don't justify it. So, an Interstate 98 is a pipe dream (or a proposal for Fictional Highways).

froggie

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 29, 2025, 08:51:43 PMNew York doesn't need a Rooftop Highway. The traffic counts don't justify it. So, an Interstate 98 is a pipe dream (or a proposal for Fictional Highways).

Perhaps not the entire thing.  But a 2018 NYSDOT study suggested a combined Potsdam/Canton bypass for US 11 might be warranted.

Rothman

Quote from: froggie on January 29, 2025, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 29, 2025, 08:51:43 PMNew York doesn't need a Rooftop Highway. The traffic counts don't justify it. So, an Interstate 98 is a pipe dream (or a proposal for Fictional Highways).

Perhaps not the entire thing.  But a 2018 NYSDOT study suggested a combined Potsdam/Canton bypass for US 11 might be warranted.

Preservation first...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Roadgeek Adam

We don't need a full freeway up there. At best, maybe 4 lanes in certain areas and some bypasses. Otherwise, 11 is sufficient.
Adam Seth Moss / Amanda Sadie Moss
Author, Inkstains and Cracked Bats
M.A. History, Western Illinois University 2015-17
B.A. History, Montclair State University 2013-15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex (County) College 2009-13

dgolub

Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 30, 2025, 05:56:46 PMWe don't need a full freeway up there. At best, maybe 4 lanes in certain areas and some bypasses. Otherwise, 11 is sufficient.

I drove portions of US 11 up there in order to get to the northern terminus and decommissioned section of NY 22 last summer.  If what I saw was representative, then that section of US 11 seemed pretty deserted.

vdeane

Quote from: dgolub on February 01, 2025, 08:26:12 AM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on January 30, 2025, 05:56:46 PMWe don't need a full freeway up there. At best, maybe 4 lanes in certain areas and some bypasses. Otherwise, 11 is sufficient.

I drove portions of US 11 up there in order to get to the northern terminus and decommissioned section of NY 22 last summer.  If what I saw was representative, then that section of US 11 seemed pretty deserted.
It varies, but when I looked on the new Traffic Data Viewer, volumes were lower than I would have expected across most of the route.  It really over-performs in terms of traffic forming lines stuck behind someone going slow, or maybe the colleges just generate that much traffic when they all go on/return from break.

Over where you would have been for NY 22 is pretty dead, yes, as is most of it east of Malone, especially as CR 24 and NY 190 bypass Chateaugay and most traffic is heading to Plattsburgh via NY 190 anyways.  Between Malone and Potsdam it's fairly light as well, since traffic is split between US 11 and NY 11B there (and NY 11B offers a good bypass of the Malone satellite communities, while US 11 bypasses the more major intermediate towns that are served by NY 11C).  Canton-Potsdam has a good amount of traffic because they're so close and both decently-sized, and that's where the four colleges are (plus that stretch doesn't get truly rural; it's rural/exurban at best).  Canton to Gouverneur isn't too bad, although getting stuck behind a slowpoke or truck is possible.  Southwest of Gouverneur is where the highest rural traffic is.  South of I-781 was nasty with the Watertown suburbs, Fort Drum traffic, and long-haul traffic all mixing together, as was NY 324 connecting to I-81, but at least that bit is now bypassed by I-781 (which shortened the trip by 15 minutes when it opened, and made it so I finally could tolerate US 11 enough to drive it consistently rather than NY 12/NY 37/NY 68).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on February 01, 2025, 04:37:15 PMCanton-Potsdam has a good amount of traffic because they're so close and both decently-sized, and that's where the four colleges are (plus that stretch doesn't get truly rural; it's rural/exurban at best). 

That's why I do think a combined Canton-Potsdam bypass as mentioned upthread could be warranted. Those exurban stretches are the worst, and a four lane bypass would break up the slog quite a bit for any long-distance/through traffic. Plus US 11 has a few turns in Potsdam that could be tricky to navigate for anyone unfamiliar with the area. I'm not sure how bad it is at peak times but it seems less than desirable to have through traffic weaving through downtown.




Quote from: vdeane on February 01, 2025, 04:37:15 PMSouth of I-781 was nasty with the Watertown suburbs, Fort Drum traffic, and long-haul traffic all mixing together, as was NY 324 connecting to I-81, but at least that bit is now bypassed by I-781 (which shortened the trip by 15 minutes when it opened, and made it so I finally could tolerate US 11 enough to drive it consistently rather than NY 12/NY 37/NY 68).

What was the worst part of NY 342/US 11 south of I-781? Obviously the left turn from NY 342 onto US 11 NB was a chokepoint, but nothing else stands out that would have caused it to take 15+ minutes to get to the current I-781 terminus.

vdeane

#7295
Quote from: webny99 on February 03, 2025, 09:01:28 AM
QuoteSouth of I-781 was nasty with the Watertown suburbs, Fort Drum traffic, and long-haul traffic all mixing together, as was NY 324 connecting to I-81, but at least that bit is now bypassed by I-781 (which shortened the trip by 15 minutes when it opened, and made it so I finally could tolerate US 11 enough to drive it consistently rather than NY 12/NY 37/NY 68).

What was the worst part of NY 342/US 11 south of I-781? Obviously the left turn from NY 342 onto US 11 NB was a chokepoint, but nothing else stands out that would have caused it to take 15+ minutes to get to the current I-781 terminus.
Think of it like Shamokin Dam: it wasn't that there was a specific choke point so much as the level of traffic, development, and uncoordinated traffic lights (which I mostly got red when I went that way) combining to make the whole corridor that choke point.  It's not like development suddenly sprung up once the through traffic was gone; while a few houses and businesses have filled in, the vast majority of what's there now was there then.  And NY 342 at the time had the highest traffic counts of any two-lane road in the entire state.

Plus even when everything's moving, there's significant time savings for taking a straight shot at 65 mph vs. a slightly longer route on surface roads with traffic lights.

And it was 15 minutes over the whole trip, so it's possible that there's additional effects from passing people that I would have been stuck behind for a while, etc.  And rounding.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on February 03, 2025, 12:44:52 PMIt's note like development suddenly sprung up once the through traffic was gone; while a few houses and busineses have filled in, the vast majority of what's there now was there then.  And NY 342 at the time had the highest traffic counts of any two-lane road in the entire state.

Yeah, I definitely think NY 342 needed four lanes long before I-781 was built.



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