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Started by Alps, September 17, 2013, 07:00:19 PM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: FLAVORTOWN on January 01, 2025, 02:03:37 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2024, 04:50:50 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/Ks9Jer4p3LSHY3za8?g_st=ac

I'm impressed with NJDOT. They actually erected directional shields on NJ ,439 at NJ 28.

I noticed that "Ave" is written on the bottom now on the sign strip on the mast arm. Is this something new from NJDOT?

The signals that were rebuilt on US-1 in Edison do not do this, but the signals being rebuilt on NJ-18 in East Brunswick do. Something odd that I noticed

Not new. Depends on available room for sign, person choosing the layout, or just seemingly random.


roadman65

Quote from: InfamousMFD478 on January 01, 2025, 02:09:59 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 16, 2024, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 15, 2024, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: ixnay on December 15, 2024, 08:19:35 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 14, 2024, 01:05:21 PM[T]he DVRPC [...] controls funding for NJDOT projects in South Jersey.

In what way?  And does that commission restrict PennDOT in the same manner?

This pretty much sums it up: https://www.dvrpc.org/planandtip

They work with PennDOT in a similar manner.

My biggest issue is that 'long range planning'. It may be a little more rigid than it should be.  While they envision what will happen over the next 25 years, there are so many variables that can change things.  To my point earlier:  It probably wasn't envisioned that 322 would be widened in 2 spots, leaving a small single lane gap.  It should be pretty simple to see that widening that gap would be beneficial for travelers, but they claim that it can't be funded because it wasn't in the long-range planning.

Quote from: roadman65 on December 15, 2024, 06:02:52 PMUS 322 should be four lanes west of the Turnpike at least. That's in an ideal world of course

One thing NJDOT don't have urgency, though, when it comes to expansion of their roads like where I'm from.  Look at widening projects as very few do you see and when they do widen a road, it takes years hence US 206 in Somerset County.

NJDOT has had a policy for a few decades now to limit widening projects.  And when there is a possibility of a widening, people that live near the area to be widened tend to be against the project.  It doesn't help that the media tends to back those against projects, making it seem that's the common viewpoint.

One current example is NJ 70 between 38 & 73. There's a 5 year project to basically renew everything along the roadway - the roadway itself, traffic lights, sidewalks, utility poles, drainage, etc.  But one thing they're not doing is widening the 2 lane (per direction) portions to 3 lanes, despite they've already paved over the former median to facilitate traffic during the construction.  This was due to residents claiming they wouldn't be able to safely get across Rt. 70 to neighborhoods on the other side.  I've traveled Rt. 70 many times, and I can't really recall anyone walking across 70, and most intersections have traffic lights to safely get people across the road.  But Cherry Hill, where most of the construction is taking place, sided with the residents and told NJDOT if they want to fix the road, they're not going to widen it, despite the obvious benefits to the township of less congestion and less traffic in the neighborhoods to bypass congestion.

That's my point. Too many NIMBYs.  That's why the loss of urgency.

I'm supposing US 9 from Lakewood to Tuckerton is the same. NIMBys don't want the road widened either.

I know in Flemington back in the mid eighties, the state wanted to widen Route 31 from the Flemington Circle to I-78, but the businesses in Flemington balked and it got truncated to it's current end north of the borough.  Even the realignment proposal died for environmental reasons that would have had a bypass of Flemington altogether.

NJ is going to remain unscathed with its substandard road infrastructure.  However they're not alone, as CT and RI are with them.

I can't stand driving in South Jersey, I swear. US 322 AND US 40 need to be 4 lanes straight through, no exceptions. Widen 322 from 295, to Williamstown, to have a driect route from the Commodore Barry Bridge to the AC Expressway, it's a major crossing.
Widen 40 from where it is now, and have it bypass Woodstown, Elmer, have it go on 55 in Vineland, and have that follow what 54 was in Atlantic County to the AC Expressway so it can be a direct route from the Del. Memorial Bridge to the Shore.
But no, they fix everything up in North Jersey real quick, now I know what it's like to live in Illinois. I hate it here.....

Read of few posts up, Jefferson pointed out the NIMBYS killed the US 322 freeway to the ACE.  Just as the 55 extension to the Parkway over environmental issues, south Jersey did have freeways proposed. One includes NJ 90 east to I-295 in Mount Laurel and another freeway from I-295 into PA near Burlington to replace the Bristol Bridge.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

mrsman

Quote from: roadman65 on August 27, 2024, 03:00:17 PMI was noticing how when you travel SB on US 9W in Fort Lee you can't access SB I-95 due to a left turn prohibition at the ramp to I-95 SB.

Instead your directed to US 1/9/46 SB to travel three miles to reach SB I-95 and WB I-80 via US 46 after the split with US 1-9.

I figure a left turn lane and protected signal phase can be added without disrupting traffic flow. When NB 9W to Route 4 turns green they could allow SB 9W to turn left to I-95 SB simultaneously as it is directly opposite the turn.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9b9AHz277XZczuwB6

Also they need a SOUTH header for I-95 as US 46 is not to I-95 NB as the ramp to I-95 NB ( to the GWB) is beyond the turn for US 1/9/46 on the left.


Oh it gets worse on I-95.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GzMx3pGLq33ocsHa9
Notice the NJ 67 shield here.

Then look here at the end of the Exit 73-74 ramp.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1RBeS47cNycBYG5M7

No mention of Route 67 once you exit.  How do they expect a driver to locate that particular route?

With apologies for coming into the conversation late, this whole stretch of roadway between NJTP and the GWB is utmost confusing.  So many exits, so many different places to go.  Lack of clear signage.  And as you pointed out, even some examples of contradictory signage.

Yes, a lack of direct connection between US 9W and I-95 south.  But I don't believe that anyone (other than heavy trucks which may be restricted from other roads) uses US 46 to get there during non-rush hours.  From Palisades Parkway or US 9W, you could stay on Lemoine (NJ 67), make a right on Bridge Plaza North and then head to the I-95 south ramp there.

Using Linwood Ave is another possibility as it heads southward from Fletcher or other local streets and also reaches Bridge Plaza North.  (Google Maps suggested this way.)

(There was also a ramp from a left turn on Lemoine at Bridge Plaza North.  This seems to be restricted now due to construction, but it may resume soon.)

Another option is to overshoot the intersection and to come back by way of three left turns.  Take Fletcher to Edwin to Main back to Fletcher to head back to the ramp desired.

Now official signage would never guide a whole bunch of traffic from a main arterial (heck, a state highway US 9W) to an interstate by way of local streets, even if that is the most direct way of getting there.  They would try to keep people on the state highway network as much as possible.

[I know of several similar situations in other states.  In California, I-710 freeway gap does not connect to Pasadena.  Most traffic will use surface streets like Fremont or Atlantic to make the connection, but Caltrans signage eventually guides you way out of the way to make use of Rosemead Blvd (at one time CA-19).
 NIMBYs block freeways and they also do their best to block the most obvious alternates.]

One thing I do know is that all of the local streets in Fort Lee are extremely impacted by bridge traffic in the morning rush hour.  It may be possible that using US 46 would actually be quicker during such times to reach the NJTP than by taking the local streets, which also serve as connections to I-95 north to GWB.  As others mentioned, allowing the left turn at this point directly from Fletcher to I-95 south was too rough on traffic, so the ramp was reconfigured to prohibit the left turn.

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2024, 04:50:50 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/Ks9Jer4p3LSHY3za8?g_st=ac

I'm impressed with NJDOT. They actually erected directional shields on NJ ,439 at NJ 28.

They had everything on one sign previously, a NJDOT classic that I guess they're moving away from. Sadly, they did a lot less on the other side of the intersection.

More interestingly, the old Goethals and Verrazzano Bridge trailblazers continue to hang on nearly 40 years later, faded though they are now.

ElishaGOtis

I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted from another source.

NJRoadfan

I pretty much knew who the bill's sponsor was before even clicking the link.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: ElishaGOtis on January 04, 2025, 11:11:47 PMSpeed Limit Sanity Bill is back on the menu https://pub.njleg.state.nj.us/Bills/2024/S2000/1652_I1.PDF


This is all you need to know about it...

"PRE-FILED FOR INTRODUCTION IN THE 2024 SESSION"

This and nearly every bill that isn't passed is automatically pre-filed for the next legislative session. News people that either know no better, or have slow news days and have to report something, talk about this as if it's something new and unusual.

SignBridge

Imagine ! A law to require speed limits to be set by engineering standards instead of political and social hysteria ! Who would have thought ?

bluecountry

Quote from: FLAVORTOWN on November 30, 2024, 11:05:20 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 30, 2024, 12:45:08 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2024, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: ctnaes on November 29, 2024, 10:27:58 PMControl city question: when 29 turns into I-195 E leaving Trenton, why is the control city Belmar? Wouldn't it make more sense to be New York? Especially given the old gap in I-95 would direct you to pick up the NJ Turnpike via 195 to get to NY.

The control city should be NY up until the Turnpike exit on 195, then it should be Belmar.

Usually (and yes, there are occasional exceptions), the control city is a town directly along the route.  Even with I-195's case, I-195 never actually reaches Belmar; one needs to continue on NJ 138 & NJ 35 first.  Same is true WB also.  Control City is Trenton; I-195 never enters Trenton.

The gap was closed 6 years ago and is irrelevant now.

NJDOT plays fast and loose with control cities and has forever. Reference all the highways (22, 46, etc) that use New York (City) as a control city when they don't actually go to New York, but rather feed into other routes that eventually cross the river. As for 195, Belmar has been the eastern-most point on mileage signs for years, even when NJDOT used to use "Shore Points" more regularly.

This reminds me of all the Marylanders complaining that I-95 North control cities all say New York after you pass Baltimore  :-D
Why does MD use NY and not Philly or Wilmington?

bluecountry

Not sure what thread it goes in, but the GWB, are the toll plazas being removed?

storm2k

Quote from: bluecountry on January 05, 2025, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: FLAVORTOWN on November 30, 2024, 11:05:20 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 30, 2024, 12:45:08 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2024, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: ctnaes on November 29, 2024, 10:27:58 PMControl city question: when 29 turns into I-195 E leaving Trenton, why is the control city Belmar? Wouldn't it make more sense to be New York? Especially given the old gap in I-95 would direct you to pick up the NJ Turnpike via 195 to get to NY.

The control city should be NY up until the Turnpike exit on 195, then it should be Belmar.

Usually (and yes, there are occasional exceptions), the control city is a town directly along the route.  Even with I-195's case, I-195 never actually reaches Belmar; one needs to continue on NJ 138 & NJ 35 first.  Same is true WB also.  Control City is Trenton; I-195 never enters Trenton.

The gap was closed 6 years ago and is irrelevant now.

NJDOT plays fast and loose with control cities and has forever. Reference all the highways (22, 46, etc) that use New York (City) as a control city when they don't actually go to New York, but rather feed into other routes that eventually cross the river. As for 195, Belmar has been the eastern-most point on mileage signs for years, even when NJDOT used to use "Shore Points" more regularly.

This reminds me of all the Marylanders complaining that I-95 North control cities all say New York after you pass Baltimore  :-D
Why does MD use NY and not Philly or Wilmington?

Same reason Ohio does east of Cleveland: because the bulk of the long haul drivers on that stretch of highway are heading to the NJ/NY area. A lot of drivers heading north on 95 out of the DC/Baltimore megaplex are going to go into Delaware, exit onto 295 and take the DelMemBr to the Turnpike to head towards Jersey and the City.

elsmere241

Quote from: storm2k on January 08, 2025, 10:31:59 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on January 05, 2025, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: FLAVORTOWN on November 30, 2024, 11:05:20 PM
Quote from: storm2k on November 30, 2024, 12:45:08 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2024, 12:33:26 AM
Quote from: ctnaes on November 29, 2024, 10:27:58 PMControl city question: when 29 turns into I-195 E leaving Trenton, why is the control city Belmar? Wouldn't it make more sense to be New York? Especially given the old gap in I-95 would direct you to pick up the NJ Turnpike via 195 to get to NY.

The control city should be NY up until the Turnpike exit on 195, then it should be Belmar.

Usually (and yes, there are occasional exceptions), the control city is a town directly along the route.  Even with I-195's case, I-195 never actually reaches Belmar; one needs to continue on NJ 138 & NJ 35 first.  Same is true WB also.  Control City is Trenton; I-195 never enters Trenton.

The gap was closed 6 years ago and is irrelevant now.

NJDOT plays fast and loose with control cities and has forever. Reference all the highways (22, 46, etc) that use New York (City) as a control city when they don't actually go to New York, but rather feed into other routes that eventually cross the river. As for 195, Belmar has been the eastern-most point on mileage signs for years, even when NJDOT used to use "Shore Points" more regularly.

This reminds me of all the Marylanders complaining that I-95 North control cities all say New York after you pass Baltimore  :-D
Why does MD use NY and not Philly or Wilmington?

Same reason Ohio does east of Cleveland: because the bulk of the long haul drivers on that stretch of highway are heading to the NJ/NY area. A lot of drivers heading north on 95 out of the DC/Baltimore megaplex are going to go into Delaware, exit onto 295 and take the DelMemBr to the Turnpike to head towards Jersey and the City.

I can remember in August 1982, one sign on I-695 referring to I-95 north as Wilmington and New York.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: storm2k on January 08, 2025, 10:31:59 AM
Quote from: bluecountry on January 05, 2025, 09:05:55 PM
Quote from: FLAVORTOWN on November 30, 2024, 11:05:20 PMThis reminds me of all the Marylanders complaining that I-95 North control cities all say New York after you pass Baltimore  :-D
Why does MD use NY and not Philly or Wilmington?

Same reason Ohio does east of Cleveland: because the bulk of the long haul drivers on that stretch of highway are heading to the NJ/NY area. A lot of drivers heading north on 95 out of the DC/Baltimore megaplex are going to go into Delaware, exit onto 295 and take the DelMemBr to the Turnpike to head towards Jersey and the City.

Although from Ohio, there aren't any significant cities along I-80 to prioritize anything before NYC.  It doesn't stop PA though to make every town of 500 people and 5,000 deer important enough to be given control city status.


roadman65

I was noticing a long NJ 70 that construction is taking place east of I-295 in Cherry Hill. Doesn't appear that it's behind widened, but New signals are being added and lane shifts for nothing.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

bmitchelf

Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:54 AMI was noticing a long NJ 70 that construction is taking place east of I-295 in Cherry Hill. Doesn't appear that it's behind widened, but New signals are being added and lane shifts for nothing.

Was mentioned upthread that residents objected to additional lanes, but other work needed to be done anyway.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bmitchelf on January 09, 2025, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:54 AMI was noticing a long NJ 70 that construction is taking place east of I-295 in Cherry Hill. Doesn't appear that it's behind widened, but New signals are being added and lane shifts for nothing.

Was mentioned upthread that residents objected to additional lanes, but other work needed to be done anyway.

Yep.  And I was responding to one of roadman65's post giving detail of a related example to one of his posts. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10453.msg2957831#msg2957831

roadman65

Quote from: bmitchelf on January 09, 2025, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:54 AMI was noticing a long NJ 70 that construction is taking place east of I-295 in Cherry Hill. Doesn't appear that it's behind widened, but New signals are being added and lane shifts for nothing.

Was mentioned upthread that residents objected to additional lanes, but other work needed to be done anyway.

I was on the road and had limited access to this forum.  I'm back now so I can see more.  No we I remember, but I thought it was near the former racetrack and not at the location I drove earlier.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2025, 05:30:30 PM
Quote from: bmitchelf on January 09, 2025, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 09, 2025, 11:07:54 AMI was noticing a long NJ 70 that construction is taking place east of I-295 in Cherry Hill. Doesn't appear that it's behind widened, but New signals are being added and lane shifts for nothing.

Was mentioned upthread that residents objected to additional lanes, but other work needed to be done anyway.

I was on the road and had limited access to this forum.  I'm back now so I can see more.  No we I remember, but I thought it was near the former racetrack and not at the location I drove earlier.

The project itself is lengthy - it goes from NJ 38 to NJ 73.  In some areas, fairly little needs to be done, but in other areas, the entire roadway is gutted and redone.  Depending when the GSV was done, that area could be finished or shifted around differently than what is seen today.

roadman65

I was noticing that in Whiting, NJ the guides on CR 530 list either Plumstead or New Egypt as control city for CR 539.

I noticed also Plumstead is not on any map as any dot. I had to research it , but found that both are synonymous. New Egypt might be what Google and Rand McNally show on maps, but legislatively it's called Plumstead including the governing body refers to New Egypt as Plumstead as official township name.

What's up with the proper name usage? I mean it's proper to use it, but if maps and local verbage don't use it, what good does it do?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2025, 10:39:33 AMI was noticing that in Whiting, NJ the guides on CR 530 list either Plumstead or New Egypt as control city for CR 539.

I noticed also Plumstead is not on any map as any dot. I had to research it , but found that both are synonymous. New Egypt might be what Google and Rand McNally show on maps, but legislatively it's called Plumstead including the governing body refers to New Egypt as Plumstead as official township name.

What's up with the proper name usage? I mean it's proper to use it, but if maps and local verbage don't use it, what good does it do?

New Jersey is rife with unincorporated communities within the larger borders of incorporated townships. Oftentimes they are places that historically have had their own post offices and often have their own ZIP codes. Woodbridge is probably the most famous of all of them, as their local government themselves call "Ten Small Towns, One Great Community". Inside Woodbridge, you have Fords, Seawarn, Iselin, Avanel, Colonia, Port Reading, and Keasbey. These are all seen on directional signs along a good number of roads, including the Parkway, 1-9, and 440. Up here where I am, Pluckemin is signed on both 287 as well as 202-206 even though it's actually part of Bedminster proper.

They are what's used in the local vernacular and that's how NJDOT tends to decide these things. As for New Egypt, I've never heard of Plumstead Township, but I have been to New Egypt and that's how locals know it, so that's how it's signed (it does also show on Google Maps).

redwood_919

Quote from: storm2k on January 14, 2025, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2025, 10:39:33 AMI was noticing that in Whiting, NJ the guides on CR 530 list either Plumstead or New Egypt as control city for CR 539.

I noticed also Plumstead is not on any map as any dot. I had to research it , but found that both are synonymous. New Egypt might be what Google and Rand McNally show on maps, but legislatively it's called Plumstead including the governing body refers to New Egypt as Plumstead as official township name.

What's up with the proper name usage? I mean it's proper to use it, but if maps and local verbage don't use it, what good does it do?

New Jersey is rife with unincorporated communities within the larger borders of incorporated townships. Oftentimes they are places that historically have had their own post offices and often have their own ZIP codes. Woodbridge is probably the most famous of all of them, as their local government themselves call "Ten Small Towns, One Great Community". Inside Woodbridge, you have Fords, Seawarn, Iselin, Avanel, Colonia, Port Reading, and Keasbey. These are all seen on directional signs along a good number of roads, including the Parkway, 1-9, and 440. Up here where I am, Pluckemin is signed on both 287 as well as 202-206 even though it's actually part of Bedminster proper.

They are what's used in the local vernacular and that's how NJDOT tends to decide these things. As for New Egypt, I've never heard of Plumstead Township, but I have been to New Egypt and that's how locals know it, so that's how it's signed (it does also show on Google Maps).
195 does the same thing, I'm pretty sure. Like, who's ever heard of Imlaystown or Georgia, NJ? Makes me chuckle whenever I drive past the signs.

roadman65

Quote from: redwood_919 on January 14, 2025, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: storm2k on January 14, 2025, 12:34:10 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 13, 2025, 10:39:33 AMI was noticing that in Whiting, NJ the guides on CR 530 list either Plumstead or New Egypt as control city for CR 539.

I noticed also Plumstead is not on any map as any dot. I had to research it , but found that both are synonymous. New Egypt might be what Google and Rand McNally show on maps, but legislatively it's called Plumstead including the governing body refers to New Egypt as Plumstead as official township name.

What's up with the proper name usage? I mean it's proper to use it, but if maps and local verbage don't use it, what good does it do?

New Jersey is rife with unincorporated communities within the larger borders of incorporated townships. Oftentimes they are places that historically have had their own post offices and often have their own ZIP codes. Woodbridge is probably the most famous of all of them, as their local government themselves call "Ten Small Towns, One Great Community". Inside Woodbridge, you have Fords, Seawarn, Iselin, Avanel, Colonia, Port Reading, and Keasbey. These are all seen on directional signs along a good number of roads, including the Parkway, 1-9, and 440. Up here where I am, Pluckemin is signed on both 287 as well as 202-206 even though it's actually part of Bedminster proper.

They are what's used in the local vernacular and that's how NJDOT tends to decide these things. As for New Egypt, I've never heard of Plumstead Township, but I have been to New Egypt and that's how locals know it, so that's how it's signed (it does also show on Google Maps).
195 does the same thing, I'm pretty sure. Like, who's ever heard of Imlaystown or Georgia, NJ? Makes me chuckle whenever I drive past the signs.

Well they changed Laurelton for Brick on the Hooper Avenue signs in Tom's River on Route 37.  Another situation where a town no one is familiar with was once posted.

Plumstead is on County route signs in Manchester. The ones on Route 70 are NJDOT that may be why Plumstead is used over New Egypt. Ocean County don't think like New Jersey.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

ixnay


roadman65

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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