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West Virginia Turnpike

Started by seicer, March 17, 2013, 01:13:01 PM

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Bitmapped

Quote from: seicer on November 27, 2022, 10:28:51 AM
Where was the Shady Springs Connector going to connect to? US 19 south of Beckley can be an absolute slog.

I don't believe I ever saw a specific route planned, although the discussions talked about a connector as well so I'm assuming its's not at an existing crossing of the Turnpike. Something that left US 19 right by the WV 3 intersection and followed Whitby Road and Left Fork Beaver Creek over to the Turnpike would seem to make sense.



Dirt Roads

Quote from: seicer on November 27, 2022, 10:28:51 AM
Where was the Shady Springs Connector going to connect to? US 19 south of Beckley can be an absolute slog.

Quote from: Bitmapped on November 28, 2022, 09:33:20 AM
I don't believe I ever saw a specific route planned, although the discussions talked about a connector as well so I'm assuming its's not at an existing crossing of the Turnpike. Something that left US 19 right by the WV 3 intersection and followed Whitby Road and Left Fork Beaver Creek over to the Turnpike would seem to make sense.

Indeed, there was never any EIS routes developed for the Shady Spring Connector.  The state Legislature required that the Parkways Authority complete a study of the new interchange during the planning of the (now completed) widening, as a condition of the state granting additional bonding authority back in 2004.  Two years later, after the Parkways Authority dragged its heels on the Shady Spring Connector study and frittered away at the widening project, the Legislature took out the Shady Spring Connector mandate and put a lid on future sale of bonds for the widening project.  However, it looks like the Parkways Authority has archived the data collected by Howard Needles Tammen and Bergendoff (HNTB). 

You might be able to contact them to see if a copy of the project overview is available for viewing.  However, such information probably cannot be released to the public because in West Virginia any proposed highway right-of-way will lock up the affected properties with respect to the State not being responsible for the cost of acquisition of new structures built after the proposed right-of-way becoming public.

https://www.register-herald.com/news/local_news/turnpike-may-archive-shady-spring-interchange-data/article_3ed5e68a-15f5-5bf9-adad-58bc101b93c5.html

seicer

Interesting bits about the Turnpike from 1978: https://mapwv.gov/DOTLivePlans/Scanning/ProjectBookFolders/P_41_1_0077_00_002_1978_S00699/PDF/P_41_1_0077_00_002_1978_S00699.pdf

No ramp tolls for I-64 (and showing the configuration for the other ramps on the Turnpike):


There are tunnels under the toll plazas. I assumed they existed:

Rothman

Quote from: seicer on November 28, 2022, 06:33:45 PM
Interesting bits about the Turnpike from 1978: https://mapwv.gov/DOTLivePlans/Scanning/ProjectBookFolders/P_41_1_0077_00_002_1978_S00699/PDF/P_41_1_0077_00_002_1978_S00699.pdf

No ramp tolls for I-64 (and showing the configuration for the other ramps on the Turnpike):


There are tunnels under the toll plazas. I assumed they existed:

Yeah, they were common on other toll roads, too.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Black-Man

Quote from: seicer on November 27, 2022, 10:28:51 AM
I'm still trying to find the ultimate build out for Exit 45. It's designed to connect to Pinewood Drive to the east and Dry Hill Road to the west.

I was glancing at the Raleigh/Fayette Regional Planning Transportation study PDF and they listed a 4-lane overpass connecting Van Kirk Dr and Pikeview/New River Dr in their master plan for 2026+ (along with New River Dr improvements and removal of tolls on the US19 exit). I would venture a guess the only item which won't get done is the removal of tolls on US 19.

74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Great Lakes Roads

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 21, 2023, 12:30:40 AM
The North Beckley toll plaza is going cashless next year.

More EZPass Lanes Coming To West Virginia Turnpike Next Year

Interesting... maybe they are testing the system to eventually go cashless on the mainline?

seicer

#107
The WVTP had no plans to go completely cashless at any of their toll plazas just a few years ago, as the EZ-Pass rate was comparably low compared to other toll highways. Most traffic is not local and those types of drivers more likely than not do not have EZ-Pass. As of this year, it looks like the ETC rate at the mainline plazas is 55%-62%.

The North Beckley Plaza is more commuter-dependent. It's cheap, and even more so if you have the Single Fee Discount Plan ($25/year for unlimited travel), which has led the EZ-Pass rate to dramatically increase. There isn't a good reason not to use EZ-Pass there if you live in the area, and using the Turnpike to bypass Beckley saves so much time.

Black-Man

Quote from: seicer on September 21, 2023, 09:25:32 AM
The WVTP had no plans to go completely cashless at any of their toll plazas just a few years ago, as the EZ-Pass rate was comparably low compared to other toll highways. Most traffic is not local and those types of drivers more likely than not do not have EZ-Pass. As of this year, it looks like the ETC rate at the mainline plazas is 55%-62%.

The article says EZPass acceptance is near 70% on the mainline. I was on it last Thursday, and they had 1 EZPass-only lane open southbound and of course there was a backup at Cheylan and Pax. It's almost like they are trolling us.

Bitmapped

Quote from: Black-Man on October 12, 2023, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: seicer on September 21, 2023, 09:25:32 AM
The WVTP had no plans to go completely cashless at any of their toll plazas just a few years ago, as the EZ-Pass rate was comparably low compared to other toll highways. Most traffic is not local and those types of drivers more likely than not do not have EZ-Pass. As of this year, it looks like the ETC rate at the mainline plazas is 55%-62%.

The article says EZPass acceptance is near 70% on the mainline. I was on it last Thursday, and they had 1 EZPass-only lane open southbound and of course there was a backup at Cheylan and Pax. It's almost like they are trolling us.

I think they still get rid of the E-ZPass lanes entirely on holiday weekends, when there are infamously long delays at the plazas. Aside from the "make work" element of having toll takers, the WV Turnpike is crying to be converted to AET.

SP Cook

https://wvmetronews.com/2023/10/13/yeager-bridge-in-charleston-rededicated-after-repairs-and-paint-job/

Commentary #1: The bridge looks, well, tacky.  Bridges are not a proper place for rah-rah sports boosterism.  Unless they are going to paint the bridge on an accelerated basis, it will look takier as the gloss fades.

Commentary #2:  Gen. Yeager donated much of his time, a lot of his money, and his name to a different university.  Paint some bridge names after someone else blue and yellow.

Dirt Roads

^^^
Ran the Turnpike twice in the past three weeks.  Was surprised about the low clearance (and low speeds) on the Yeager northbound span due to the paint canopy hanging beneath the through-truss.  From the looks of things, a few trucks actually sliced into the canopy.



Quote from: SP Cook on October 15, 2023, 11:44:19 AM
Commentary #2:  Gen. Yeager donated much of his time, a lot of his money, and his name to a different university.  Paint some bridge names after someone else blue and yellow.

When in Huntington a few weeks ago, I recalled seeing a few bridges painted in that other color you are eluding to.  But it looks like WVDOH is repainting the West Huntington Tollbridge (US-52, and hasn't been tolled for many decades) in the standard shade of dark green.  Marshall fans were also upset when the I-64 Fort Hill Bridge in Charleston was repainted blue.

seicer

I wonder if this paint job is of better quality than the new Wellsburg Bridge (which I previously posted about). I came through the Yeager Bridge project late at night a few weeks ago and saw what appeared to be incomplete passes with the paint gun. It looked sloppy, but I wonder if that was from the paint crews not stripping the paint completely off of the steel members to begin with.

@Dirt Roads: There was a major incident some time ago after an oversized truck sliced through the canopy, leading to heavy steel wires dangling from the canopy and damaging multiple vehicles at night: https://www.wsaz.com/2023/07/19/parkway-authority-new-safety-measures-motorists-effective-immediately-following-pair-incidents-yeager-bridge/

Related, the painting is wrapping up (or wrapped up?) on the Robert C. Byrd Bridge on WV 527 in downtown Huntington. It's the same shade of paint that is on the West Huntington Bridge for US 52 which was repainted (IIRC) when it was rehabilitated some years back. I looked up the color some time ago as I was curious what the standard shade of green was for the state, but I can't recall what that is now.

That darker shade of green will age more gracefully than a bright green monstrosity. 😅

Bitmapped

Quote from: seicer on October 15, 2023, 08:50:49 PM
I wonder if this paint job is of better quality than the new Wellsburg Bridge (which I previously posted about). I came through the Yeager Bridge project late at night a few weeks ago and saw what appeared to be incomplete passes with the paint gun. It looked sloppy, but I wonder if that was from the paint crews not stripping the paint completely off of the steel members to begin with.

@Dirt Roads: There was a major incident some time ago after an oversized truck sliced through the canopy, leading to heavy steel wires dangling from the canopy and damaging multiple vehicles at night: https://www.wsaz.com/2023/07/19/parkway-authority-new-safety-measures-motorists-effective-immediately-following-pair-incidents-yeager-bridge/

Related, the painting is wrapping up (or wrapped up?) on the Robert C. Byrd Bridge on WV 527 in downtown Huntington. It's the same shade of paint that is on the West Huntington Bridge for US 52 which was repainted (IIRC) when it was rehabilitated some years back. I looked up the color some time ago as I was curious what the standard shade of green was for the state, but I can't recall what that is now.

That darker shade of green will age more gracefully than a bright green monstrosity. 😅

FWIW, old gold and blue are the official colors of the state itself, not just WVU. That being said, I agree the two colors side-by-side on the Yeager Bridges are tacky and unlikely to hold up well. The state used a gold-and-blue scheme on the Market Street Bridge at Steubenville about a decade ago and it's not held up well at all, although I don't know if the state cheaped out on the paint figuring the bridge only needed to last until the Wellsburg Bridge was completed.

The green used on the West Huntington Bridge is WV standard for green-painted bridges. WVDOH tends use green or gray for bridge paint, although in recent years it has normally done Corten steel or concrete beams for most projects.


hbelkins

Kentucky's standard bridge colors are green and blue. I would be surprised if that's not the standard for nearly every other state.

There was a controversy a few years ago when the KY 52 bridge crossing the Kentucky River at Irvine (pronounced "Ervin," not "Ir-vine") was up for a repainting. The widow of a firefighter killed in action(*), for whom the bridge had been named, wanted the bridge to be painted red and black. That idea was nixed, in large part because red and black are the school colors for Estill County High School's neighbor and rival Powell County. The bridge was repainted the same shade of green that it had been for years.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/KYTC/bulletins/327dc77

(*)The firefigher in question was actually not on duty when he died. He had returned home after responding to a call and died later that night. But for some reason, his death was classified as while on duty.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Bitmapped on October 16, 2023, 12:09:05 PM
FWIW, old gold and blue are the official colors of the state itself, not just WVU.

WVU changed over from the official old gold and blue to Don Nehlen's "Dark Beloo and Brite Yaller" back in 1980, the same time as the Flying WV hit the side of the football helmets.  There's been a few color tweaks along the way, but I was surprised that this year WVU has switched back to colors much closer to the official state colors.  It is interesting that the brand-new colors used on the Yeager Bridge are already a throwback to the past.

By the way, my wife (who is indeed from North Carolina) can't stand how most of us West Virginians pronounce the word "color".  To me, it sounds the same as "collar" and "caller".  To her and other Southerners, all three of those words are pronounced differently.  Which leads me back to how West Virginians say "pernownzed".  For some reason, that one doesn't bother her.

Bitmapped

Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 16, 2023, 09:32:09 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on October 16, 2023, 12:09:05 PM
FWIW, old gold and blue are the official colors of the state itself, not just WVU.

WVU changed over from the official old gold and blue to Don Nehlen's "Dark Beloo and Brite Yaller" back in 1980, the same time as the Flying WV hit the side of the football helmets.  There's been a few color tweaks along the way, but I was surprised that this year WVU has switched back to colors much closer to the official state colors.  It is interesting that the brand-new colors used on the Yeager Bridge are already a throwback to the past.

I can't speak to athletics uniforms, but the colors used by WVU itself for branding and marketing haven't changed. They're the exact same Pantone colors they've been for 20+ years.

seicer

#117
Old Gold and Blue have also been the official colors of the state since March 8, 1963. Those colors in the state seal had been used since the state's independence in 1863.

WVU's colors were derived from the state seal in 1890.

I haven't found anything about the 1980 reference other than Niehlen working to get WVU logo adopted with the Old Gold and Blue scheme. Previously, players had helmets that were gold (not Old Gold, too) and bore the state's outline with the letters WVU in an oval. It's one of my favorite logos, personally.

Black-Man

Quote from: Bitmapped on November 28, 2022, 09:33:20 AM
I don't believe I ever saw a specific route planned, although the discussions talked about a connector as well so I'm assuming its's not at an existing crossing of the Turnpike. Something that left US 19 right by the WV 3 intersection and followed Whitby Road and Left Fork Beaver Creek over to the Turnpike would seem to make sense.

I have a feeling this plan is going to be revisited with the 8 data centers on 400 acres and its 600 employees going in off of US19 south of Shady. Funny how the awarding of the contract to add a single lane to US19 was in October and is already inadequate. Projects of this size usually come with highway and infrastructure enhancements as part of the announcement. Otherwise, local opposition gets vocal when congestion is already added to a congested area and the first zoning hearing was not a good look for the WV DOH as they were a no-show.

seicer

Wouldn't the Fayette/Raleigh MPO (FRM) be more involved at this level than WVDOH? The organization would have more intimate knowledge of what is needed. But projects like the US 19 corridor improvements have been many years in the planning/study, with improvements along the corridor proposed by the FRM (unsure if the contracts are let yet). But just as important, a contract to build the south leg of the "Z Way" Beckley bypass from Interstate 64 south towards Shady Spring was awarded in November: https://transportation.wv.gov/communications/PressRelease/Pages/WVDOH_awards_contracts_for_Beckley_ZWay_and_other_work.aspx


Bitmapped

Quote from: seicer on December 23, 2023, 07:01:58 PM
Wouldn't the Fayette/Raleigh MPO (FRM) be more involved at this level than WVDOH? The organization would have more intimate knowledge of what is needed. But projects like the US 19 corridor improvements have been many years in the planning/study, with improvements along the corridor proposed by the FRM (unsure if the contracts are let yet). But just as important, a contract to build the south leg of the "Z Way" Beckley bypass from Interstate 64 south towards Shady Spring was awarded in November: https://transportation.wv.gov/communications/PressRelease/Pages/WVDOH_awards_contracts_for_Beckley_ZWay_and_other_work.aspx

MPOs are a formality in West Virginia. They exist to sign whatever paperwork and adopt whatever TIP amendments WVDOH tells them to approve.

As for the data centers, I'll believe it when I see it with 600 employees. That would be a much heavier staffing level than you normally see. Even if it is that level, you don't really have shipments in and out and you don't have customers visiting. We're talking probably 1200-2000 trips a day, spread out over the all hours to account for round-the-clock staffing. Other than whatever side road connects to US 19, I doubt there would be a significant need for upgrades.

Rothman

Hm.  Does WV have no locally-administered federal-aid projects, then?  That seems highly unlikely.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Bitmapped

Quote from: Rothman on December 24, 2023, 12:23:32 AM
Hm.  Does WV have no locally-administered federal-aid projects, then?  That seems highly unlikely.

Bear in mind that most infrastructure in WV is owned by the state. Counties don't own anything. In cities, most of the major roads are owned by the state by virtue of being a US, WV, or county route. That leaves a relatively small number of routes that are significant enough to qualify for federal aid but that are still municipally maintained.

Federal aid dollars do get used for municipal bridges, but WVDOH normally ends up administering those projects because the local governments generally lack the capacity to do so. Charleston is really the only municipality I can think of that has significant bridges on federal aid-eligible roads that are municipally maintained inside an MPO. I think they have let some projects on their own but it's been a while since one of their larger bridges has had a significant rehab.

I've not seen a paving project on a federal aid-eligible municipally-maintained street that has used federal dollars. The municipality inevitably foots the entire bill itself.

As an example of what I mean about WVDOH dictating things, look at the TIP for the Morgantown-Monongalia MPO. (See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IcV9LlBIKNws8HyIZoKt0k60TUVQEoc9F-VbIkVwrj8/edit#gid=0). Those two projects at the very end for the Morgantown Industrial Park Access road are brand new. A company in the industrial park was promised a new I-79 interchange, but FHWA was taking too long to sign off on an interchange justification study. The company whined to the state, so boom, a new $80 million bridge across the Monongahela River appears out of thin air and presented to the MPO to add to the TIP. Nobody asked for this bridge other than the one company. It was not in the long-term planning the MPO had done. But because the company wants it, the state wants it, and the state threatened the MPO they'd pull funding from other projects the community does want if they didn't put it on the TIP.

Is this how it is supposed to work? No. Is it the reality of how things work with MPOs in West Virginia? Unfortunately, yes.

seicer

I would think that MPOs help WVDOH prioritize projects and complete studies, which is what the FRM has been doing for the Beckley area. They completed studies on US 19 (as an example) that are leading to significant improvements near Beaver. Other MPOs, like the KYOVA Interstate Planning Commission, have led to projects along Hal Greer Blvd. being built by WVDOH; that one particular MPO is leading the study on the Outerbelt crossing project, too. I think these MPOs are required for federal funding purposes.

Rothman



Quote from: Bitmapped on December 24, 2023, 09:08:31 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 24, 2023, 12:23:32 AM
Hm.  Does WV have no locally-administered federal-aid projects, then?  That seems highly unlikely.

Bear in mind that most infrastructure in WV is owned by the state. Counties don't own anything. In cities, most of the major roads are owned by the state by virtue of being a US, WV, or county route. That leaves a relatively small number of routes that are significant enough to qualify for federal aid but that are still municipally maintained.

Federal aid dollars do get used for municipal bridges, but WVDOH normally ends up administering those projects because the local governments generally lack the capacity to do so. Charleston is really the only municipality I can think of that has significant bridges on federal aid-eligible roads that are municipally maintained inside an MPO. I think they have let some projects on their own but it's been a while since one of their larger bridges has had a significant rehab.

I've not seen a paving project on a federal aid-eligible municipally-maintained street that has used federal dollars. The municipality inevitably foots the entire bill itself.

As an example of what I mean about WVDOH dictating things, look at the TIP for the Morgantown-Monongalia MPO. (See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IcV9LlBIKNws8HyIZoKt0k60TUVQEoc9F-VbIkVwrj8/edit#gid=0). Those two projects at the very end for the Morgantown Industrial Park Access road are brand new. A company in the industrial park was promised a new I-79 interchange, but FHWA was taking too long to sign off on an interchange justification study. The company whined to the state, so boom, a new $80 million bridge across the Monongahela River appears out of thin air and presented to the MPO to add to the TIP. Nobody asked for this bridge other than the one company. It was not in the long-term planning the MPO had done. But because the company wants it, the state wants it, and the state threatened the MPO they'd pull funding from other projects the community does want if they didn't put it on the TIP.

Is this how it is supposed to work? No. Is it the reality of how things work with MPOs in West Virginia? Unfortunately, yes.

Interesting.  Should have remembered about the State/Local mix in WV -- Makes a lot of sense for WVDOT just to say "federal for me, not you" and thus retain a lot of control over its programming.

Still, even without corprorate pushing, you'd be surprised how many projects just appear to be added to the TIP outside of WV, a lot of times even for the better.

NYSDOT MO withholds some federal funds as a reserve (not the funds that must go to MPOs, like STBG Lg Urban and the other urban categories).  So, a lot of MPOs get a suballocation (not all), but then NYSDOT can come marching in and say a project is being funded with that reserve funding and be added to the TIP without affecting fiscal constraint.  I am aware of only a couple of major projects that were to benefit private companies in some way, but most of the time, the reserve is actually used for projects NYSDOT regions cannot afford or particular, statewide asset-based initiatives.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.



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