Southeast cities: 1979 to 2019

[Daniel Fiddler]

Nashville, Tennessee
1979:  approximately 600,000
2019:  approximately 2.1 million
Approximately 3.5x growth
Fastest-growing county: Davidson overall, Rutherford by percentage
My guess for growth reason:  EIHS, country music

Atlanta, Georgia
1979:  approximately 1.5 million
2019:  approximately 6.2 million
Approximately 4x growth
Fastest-growing county:  Gwinnett in both overall and percentage
My guess for growth reason:  EIHS, airport

Orlando, Florida
1979:  approximately 300,000
2019:  approximately 3.8 million
Approximately 13x growth
Fastest-growing county:  Orange overall, Osceola by percentage
My guess for growth reason:  EIHS and toll roads, theme parks / tourism industry, ideal climate

[Scott5114]

Atlanta also has a huge film industry that didn't exist in 1979.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Hmmm, I didn't think about that, and I lived there for 7 years.

I just know that pretty much the entire state of Florida (especially Orlando), Atlanta, and Nashville have grown very fast the last 40 years.

I remember when Memphis was larger than either Orlando or Nashville!  That was several years ago, but still.

Now, metropolitan Memphis only has 1.3 million.  Compare that to Nashville and especially Orlando! 

Memphis has only seen growth in Desoto County, Collierville, and Bartlett.  And only a relatively small amount at that compared to Florida, Atlanta, and Nashville.  I seriously doubt Memphis has gained even as much as 50% growth in the last 40 years, I am thinking it probably has seen only 25% - 33% growth total in said time.

Knoxville and Chattanooga have been growing faster than Memphis.  I would not be shocked if Knoxville passes Memphis in the next 10 years, in fact, I would be surprised if it does NOT!

[hotdogPi]

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Orlando has nowhere near an ideal climate. It regularly gets into the 90s with humidity, and the coast isn't even there to cool you down.

I am aware of that, I lived in Orlando for four years. 

Alright, it does get a bit warm in the summer, but so do Tennessee and Georgia.  I've lived either in Florida, Georgia, or Tennessee all of my life, and of the three states, Florida has the most ideal climate.

Although it's not as perfect as, say, southern California.  Then again, Florida doesn't have California's high cost of living.  Higher than Tennessee's and Georgia's, but not as high as California's.

[kevinb1994]

Jacksonville was the place for early filmmaking in the South, and it can still (sort of) brag about its early legacy as such. MGM has history here, for example. No wonder Bezos wants some of it

We also had the first actual color TV station, what was once WFGA-TV but is now WTLV. Twelve, easy as pie. This station also helped bring the first NASA launch to the viewing public.

In addition to the first actual digital TV station, WJXX. Channel 25. Both WTLV and WJXX have been taken over by TEGNA, formerly part of Gannett. Gannett owns the Florida Times-Union.

[jgb191]

Atlanta hosted the 1996 Olympics which I would imagine helped boosted the size of the city.  I'm guessing Atlanta has the fourth-largest media market in North America with the likes of CNN, TNT, TBS, TWC based there.  Also guessing Atlanta is in the top five of the list of the most celebrity residents in the country.  Atlanta also has the third most Fortune 500 companies in the country.

[webny99]

My guess for growth reasons: annexation. A lot of the growth would be considered suburban growth in other parts of the country.

[MATraveler128]

I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.

[hotdogPi]

I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina.  All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.

The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:

Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779

Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando.  All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.

In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them).  Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million.  There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River.  Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!

As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word.  Suburban sprawl is more accurate.  Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population.  Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.

With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up.  I think Nashville has only one or two.  Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core.  And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west.  Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840.  Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural.  Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example.  Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.

[kevinb1994]

Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina.  All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.

The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:

Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779

Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando.  All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.

In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them).  Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million.  There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River.  Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!

As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word.  Suburban sprawl is more accurate.  Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population.  Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.

With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up.  I think Nashville has only one or two.  Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core.  And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west.  Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840.  Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural.  Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example.  Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.

You hit the nail in the head for Jacksonville. We had the Great Annexation of 1887 that had a nice map to go with it that you can find online. Then you had the Consolidation of 1968 which happened not long after Nashville's. Jacksonville was losing population to the suburbs that weren't around before WWII. Plus the interstate highway system made the surrounding counties of Baker, Nassau, and St. Johns more attractive.

[Life in Paradise]

I have frequented each of those three cities over the years.  Orlando's growth to me is primarily sparked by the construction of Walt Disney World in the late 60s, early 70s (this covers the construction years).  There are other reasons now, but the tourism industry really started there because of WDW.  I remember going and staying in a small motel (apartment type) on the outskirts of Orlando in the very early 70s and I happened to go by the place a few decades later, and it was still there, but as low rent apartments,  and it is basically considered adjacent to downtown. 

Both Atlanta and Nashville have been meccas for media/industry and in Nashville's case-music, etc.  Compared to NYC, Boston, LA and San Fran; all of these cities are considered low cost of living overall.

[Daniel Fiddler]

I have frequented each of those three cities over the years.  Orlando's growth to me is primarily sparked by the construction of Walt Disney World in the late 60s, early 70s (this covers the construction years).  There are other reasons now, but the tourism industry really started there because of WDW.  I remember going and staying in a small motel (apartment type) on the outskirts of Orlando in the very early 70s and I happened to go by the place a few decades later, and it was still there, but as low rent apartments,  and it is basically considered adjacent to downtown. 

Both Atlanta and Nashville have been meccas for media/industry and in Nashville's case-music, etc.  Compared to NYC, Boston, LA and San Fran; all of these cities are considered low cost of living overall.

Indeed, Walt Disney World started Orlando's growth.

And all three cities have very low costs of living compared to NYC and California.  Orlando is slightly higher than Atlanta and Nashville but still reasonable.

Same house.

$300,000 - $350,000 in Atlanta or Nashville (maybe as cheap as $250,000 in Rutherford county, cheapest suburbs of Nashville)

$400,000 - $500,000 in Orlando

$800,000 - $1 million in LA

$1 million - $1.2 million in NYC (and it won't be in NYC itself, certainly not on Manhattan island, it will be in the suburbs)

$1.5 million PLUS (probably $2 million) in San Francisco, some areas like Palo Alto and Atherton more, some places like San Jose and Oakland less

Why did I choose a house of that price?  I figured that is a "normal"  family home.  A home like that in Jackson where I live would cost $200k and in Lexington where my mother and grandmother live around $150k.

[Stephane Dumas]

Let's not forget Huntsville, Alabama. It was still a small town until the early 1940s until the US Army put a base and the Redstone Arsenal and later part of the NASA space program was at Huntsville too.

[Daniel Fiddler]

Huntsville is still a relatively small town compared to the 10 largest cities in the Southeast, it only has 500k or so people.

And although it's nowhere near the southeast, if we're going back as far as 1940, Las Vegas had 30 people.  Yes, 30.  Now, I forget offhand what its population is, although I know it's WELL over 2 million!

[triplemultiplex]

And although it's nowhere near the southeast, if we're going back as far as 1940, Las Vegas had 30 people.  Yes, 30.  Now, I forget offhand what its population is, although I know it's WELL over 2 million!

The Oracle at Wiki lists the 1940 population of Las Vegas at 8,422.
40 years earlier though, we're getting about what you say.  1900: Las Vegas population = 25.

[Scott5114]

I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. I think most people would know if you ask them what state Raleigh is in. (Or Charlotte, maybe, but sometimes I get mixed up and think it's in South Carolina, then have to stop and remind myself I'm confusing it with Charleston. I doubt I'm the only one who does that.)

[US 89]

Huntsville is still a relatively small town compared to the 10 largest cities in the Southeast, it only has 500k or so people.

Huntsville is the largest city in Alabama now, even bigger than Birmingham (although Birmingham's metro is still substantially larger).

I’m surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn’t been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city’s population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town. I think most people would know if you ask them what state Raleigh is in. (Or Charlotte, maybe, but sometimes I get mixed up and think it's in South Carolina, then have to stop and remind myself I'm confusing it with Charleston. I doubt I'm the only one who does that.)

It doesn't help that there's also some significant Greenvilles in that area, including one in NC and an even bigger one in SC. I always got Greensboro and the two Greenvilles mixed up until I actually drove through those areas myself.

Can't say I've ever confused Charlotte and Charleston though. Again, probably helps that I've been to both places and I'm pretty familiar with the northern half of SC's coastline.

[Dirt Roads]

I'm surprised that Charlotte, North Carolina hasn't been mentioned yet. That is another one that has been booming in population growth recently. The city's population has gone up by 19.57% since 2010 alone. The city has attracted new companies over the last decade and the entire metro area should have grown by 50% by 2050.

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

Just had a discussion about this same general topic with a friend in the Charlotte area today.  He was projecting that more Fortune 500 companies would move to Charlotte and Raleigh in the next decade.  I mentioned that Greensboro might get even more because the housing market in Charlotte and Raleigh is oversaturated, whereas the Triad still has capacity for more construction.  He raised a valid point that the Greensboro area might bring in more industrial businesses, but the finance/banking world will be more attracted to Charlotte and the technology world more attracted to the Triangle.  I would be remiss here if I didn't add biotech to the mix.

[Road Hog]

Define "Southeast."

If you're talking about the region generally south of the 36th parallel and east of the Mississippi, then you have to include Baton Rouge, which has boomed as New Orleans has struggled post-Katrina.

If you include cities in the footprint of the Southeastern Conference in college athletics, the multitide of cities in the two northwesternmost counties of Arkansas are unrecognizable.

[Dirt Roads]

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town.  <snipped>

Even worse, nobody realizes the significance of the name Greensboro.  What was then Capefair was a relatively large Quaker settlement at the western edge of the main Scot-Irish influx into North Carolina.  Nearby, the village of Guilford Court House (now surrounded by Greensboro) was the site of a major battle in the Revolutionary War.  The smaller British Army led by Marquiss Cornwallis defeated the patriots led by Gen Nathanael Greene.  However, Gen. Greene's forces inflicted such a death toll to Cornwallis' forces that the British would never recover.  Guilford Court House was possibly the most important losing battle in modern history, certainly more so than Bunker Hill or Chancellorsville (Civil War) and led to the British surrender at Yorktown.

In response, the town of Capefair was renamed Greensboro after Gen. Greene.  But even more revealing, many of the North Carolina soldiers who served under Gen. Greene would later name their children after the general (usually spelled Nathaniel Greene, sometimes Green) and purportedly some that were named Nathaniel added the middle name Greene after the battle.  But now, even locals don't understand the significance of that battle or even the connection to Gen. Greene.

[kevinb1994]

North Carolina (the entire state, not just Charlotte) seems to be forgotten when listing major cities. I'm not even sure how much of the general public could answer correctly if you ask which state Greensboro is in.

That has less to do with people forgetting North Carolina and more to do with the fact that Greensboro is a generic, boring-ass name for a town.  <snipped>

Even worse, nobody realizes the significance of the name Greensboro.  What was then Capefair was a relatively large Quaker settlement at the western edge of the main Scot-Irish influx into North Carolina.  Nearby, the village of Guilford Court House (now surrounded by Greensboro) was the site of a major battle in the Revolutionary War.  The smaller British Army led by Marquiss Cornwallis defeated the patriots led by Gen Nathanael Greene.  However, Gen. Greene's forces inflicted such a death toll to Cornwallis' forces that the British would never recover.  Guilford Court House was possibly the most important losing battle in modern history, certainly more so than Bunker Hill or Chancellorsville (Civil War) and led to the British surrender at Yorktown.

In response, the town of Capefair was renamed Greensboro after Gen. Greene.  But even more revealing, many of the North Carolina soldiers who served under Gen. Greene would later name their children after the general (usually spelled Nathaniel Greene, sometimes Green) and purportedly some that were named Nathaniel added the middle name Greene after the battle.  But now, even locals don't understand the significance of that battle or even the connection to Gen. Greene.

I believe that Greene would have been the South Hero, as Ethan Allen (ever heard of him?) would be the North Hero. This is particularly notable in Vermont. Vermont was, early on, known as New Connecticut, but that would soon be dropped for its current name. Eventually the name Connecticut would be applied to that land of entrenchment in NE Ohio.

[bing101]

Shit, I did forget to mention North Carolina.  All three of its largest metropolitan areas (Charlotte, Raleigh, and Greensboro) have grown very fast indeed.

The ten largest Southeastern metropolitan areas are:

Atlanta 6,209,406
Miami 6,138,333
Tampa 4,734,037
Orlando 3,833,531
Charlotte 2,739,744
Raleigh 2,211,251
Nashville 2,174,887
Jacksonville 1,721,226
Greensboro 1,571,777
Memphis 1,337,779

Then again, I didn't mention all of Florida's, just Orlando.  All of Florida has grown fast, just Orlando has grown the absolute fastest.

In 1950 (six years before the Eisenhower Interstate System was established), Florida was the LEAST populous Southeastern state (or one of them).  Now it's the most populous Southeastern state and third most populous overall state, with a population of over 21 million.  There was a time when Alabama desired to annex the panhandle west of the Chattahoochee River.  Florida said no, because it would mean losing 75% of their population!

As far as "annexation", I don't think that's the word.  Suburban sprawl is more accurate.  Atlanta's and Orlando's CITY PROPER population is less than 10% and Nashville's only around 30% of their entire metropolitan area population.  Annexation would more accurately describe Jacksonville and Memphis.

With the exception of Atlanta and Miami, the Southeast has few skyscrapers over 500 feet tall, they are the only cities that really built up.  I think Nashville has only one or two.  Miami didn't have much choice, they could only build substantially north really, there is only 15 or 20 miles of buildable land to the west and even less than that to the south and east of the city core.  And if you look at Nashville, with the exception of Davidson which did develop the entire county, all growth is within 5 miles of I-24 east, I-65 north, I-65 south, and I-40 east, and a short stretch (10 - 15 miles or so long) of I-40 west.  Although I-840 has helped spur the growth of Rutherford and Williamson counties, very little growth is along I-840.  Despite having over 2.1 million population, metropolitan Nashville is still largely rural.  Just drive 2 or 3 miles outside Franklin or Brentwood and you will see horse farms for example.  Believe it or not, I-840 has some absolutely magnificent scenery, especially between TN 100 and US 31 and around Castle Gwynn.

Nashville and Atlanta I heard of these two cities being hyped as the Next Los Angeles before given that Film and Music industries have talked about having more of their production operations in those cities as a way to reduce costs of recording music or doing film in Los Angeles or New York.


Raleigh they have been hyped up as an alternative to Austin, San Jose, San Francisco for the Tech and Biotech industries.




https://wraltechwire.com/2022/01/03/biotechs-big-year-in-nc-nearly-4b-in-investment-more-than-4800-jobs-in-2021/




https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/atlanta-electric-owl-1235061774/


https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/music/2022/01/15/ralph-emery-dead-nashville-now-radio-tv-host-country-music-hall-fame/6541650001/

[skluth]

Among the main reasons for population growth in much of the South is a combination of the ubiquitousness of air conditioning and lower taxes in many of the states. Texas, Florida, and Tennessee have no state income tax. Sixty years ago air conditioning was a rarity in many homes even in the South; now it's common in homes in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Reasons for growth are dependent on local businesses, including many that have moved to the area. Charlotte was always a financial center and growth in that business has fueled much of that part of the Carolinas' population growth. Orlando and much of Florida has been a combination of tourist businesses and lots of old people. BMW and Volvo both make cars in South Carolina while Nissan and VW build cars in Tennessee (much of Nashville's growth is thanks to the Nissan plant in suburban Smyrna). Tech industries are a major reason for growth in Austin and the Raleigh-Durham area.

One last factor is the US military is bigger than it was 50 years ago and many of the major bases are in the South including Fort Bragg (the largest army base on Earth), Fort Campbell, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning. Tidewater is dominated by the Navy but still has Fort Eustas and Langley AFB. San Antonio sometimes feels like a giant air force base. Not surprisingly, a lot of former military take up residence near these bases for employment and, for retirees, access to services.