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Cost of Driving Electric Vehicles

Started by Dirt Roads, January 29, 2023, 10:39:05 PM

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Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 08:48:27 PM
If you have people parking ICE vehicles in front of electric chargers, you just need a sign:

ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
ONLY

ALL OTHERS WILL
BE TOWED AT
OWNER'S EXPENSE
For me, it is pretty hard to justify that some public property is treated that way. Of course, if those are on private property, things may be significantly different... But even then giving privileges to those who can afford more expensive vehicles is a good way to induce more strain in the society...

If the government has decided that there is a public policy interest in promoting electric vehicle uptake, then parking restrictions only serve to reinforce that policy decision. Given that there are already tax incentives being offered to those that purchase electric vehicles, it seems reasonable to me.

(Full disclosure: I drive an ICE car, but would love to have an electric if I could afford one.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 08:48:27 PM
If you have people parking ICE vehicles in front of electric chargers, you just need a sign:

ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
ONLY

ALL OTHERS WILL
BE TOWED AT
OWNER'S EXPENSE
For me, it is pretty hard to justify that some public property is treated that way. Of course, if those are on private property, things may be significantly different... But even then giving privileges to those who can afford more expensive vehicles is a good way to induce more strain in the society...

If the government has decided that there is a public policy interest in promoting electric vehicle uptake, then parking restrictions only serve to reinforce that policy decision. Given that there are already tax incentives being offered to those that purchase electric vehicles, it seems reasonable to me.

(Full disclosure: I drive an ICE car, but would love to have an electric if I could afford one.)
Sure, that is the justification. Is it a good one?
Social engineering can go only that far before people get irritated.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 08:48:27 PM
If you have people parking ICE vehicles in front of electric chargers, you just need a sign:

ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
ONLY

ALL OTHERS WILL
BE TOWED AT
OWNER'S EXPENSE

Well, you need more than that.  Is there a law or ordinance that permits towing?  If on private property, is there a sign that states who will tow the car, where, and the various fees?

ICE vehicle drivers that park in a spot for EVs are being dicks, but a sign threatening towing where it can't be legally enforced is like many signs posted in the various threads on these here forums that have no bite to them.

ICE vehicle owners actually do this to themselves also.  How many people see others walk away from their car at a gas pump to go inside the store to shop?

Max Rockatansky

#28
Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 08:48:27 PM
If you have people parking ICE vehicles in front of electric chargers, you just need a sign:

ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
ONLY

ALL OTHERS WILL
BE TOWED AT
OWNER'S EXPENSE
For me, it is pretty hard to justify that some public property is treated that way. Of course, if those are on private property, things may be significantly different... But even then giving privileges to those who can afford more expensive vehicles is a good way to induce more strain in the society...

If the government has decided that there is a public policy interest in promoting electric vehicle uptake, then parking restrictions only serve to reinforce that policy decision. Given that there are already tax incentives being offered to those that purchase electric vehicles, it seems reasonable to me.

(Full disclosure: I drive an ICE car, but would love to have an electric if I could afford one.)
Sure, that is the justification. Is it a good one?
Social engineering can go only that far before people get irritated.

For me it comes down just wanting an affordable car to drive daily that doesn't have a ton of compromises.  Right now the EV market doesn't really anything super affordable that doesn't come with major compromises compared to an ICE.  I can afford to buy more than entry level cars for daily driving sure.  All the same,  why would I ever waste money on such a disposable purchase like a daily driver?  When the EV market gets the point where the prices are competitive and the compromises compared to ICE are minimal I'll likely buy one. 

Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs. 

1995hoo

The new Prius Prime plug-in hybrid has a solar roof option to help with charging the battery. Don't know what the option costs or how well it works.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kalvado

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 30, 2023, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 30, 2023, 08:48:27 PM
If you have people parking ICE vehicles in front of electric chargers, you just need a sign:

ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
ONLY

ALL OTHERS WILL
BE TOWED AT
OWNER'S EXPENSE
For me, it is pretty hard to justify that some public property is treated that way. Of course, if those are on private property, things may be significantly different... But even then giving privileges to those who can afford more expensive vehicles is a good way to induce more strain in the society...

If the government has decided that there is a public policy interest in promoting electric vehicle uptake, then parking restrictions only serve to reinforce that policy decision. Given that there are already tax incentives being offered to those that purchase electric vehicles, it seems reasonable to me.

(Full disclosure: I drive an ICE car, but would love to have an electric if I could afford one.)
Sure, that is the justification. Is it a good one?
Social engineering can go only that far before people get irritated.

For me it comes down just wanting an affordable car to drive daily that doesn't have a ton of compromises.  Right now the EV market doesn't really anything super affordable that doesn't come with major compromises compared to an ICE.  I can afford to buy more than entry level cars for daily driving sure.  All the same,  why would I ever waste money on such a disposable purchase like a daily driver?  When the EV market gets the point where the prices are competitive and the compromises compared to ICE are minimal I'll likely buy one. 

Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs.
And you assume that
Quote from: kernals12 on January 02, 2021, 09:07:34 AMwith extremely low cost solar power on the horizon
EV is what you need? What color would it be? Jade or jade?

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs.

I wasn't aware of this trend.  This is disconcerting since [first automobile acquisition cost] is one of the classic bellwethers of economic instability (another classic one that is on my radar is the replacement cost of central home HVAC).  I don't see a lot of young Americans retreating to using motorcycles as their primary means of transportation.

abefroman329

Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 31, 2023, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs.

I wasn't aware of this trend.  This is disconcerting since [first automobile acquisition cost] is one of the classic bellwethers of economic instability (another classic one that is on my radar is the replacement cost of central home HVAC).  I don't see a lot of young Americans retreating to using motorcycles as their primary means of transportation.
For many people, the incentives for owning a sub-compact or compact car are practically nonexistent when you don't live in a city.

Chris

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs. 

I can confirm this is also a thing in Europe. The average new car buyer is nearly 60 years old and they prefer higher seating. So there is a plethora of SUVs and crossovers, but the compact and sub-compact segment has dwindled. And small cars were traditionally very popular in Europe. Many carmakers have stopped selling city cars and the subcompact segment has shot up in price dramatically.

kalvado

Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 31, 2023, 11:22:59 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs.

I wasn't aware of this trend.  This is disconcerting since [first automobile acquisition cost] is one of the classic bellwethers of economic instability (another classic one that is on my radar is the replacement cost of central home HVAC).  I don't see a lot of young Americans retreating to using motorcycles as their primary means of transportation.
I heard more than once that current generation is not that crazy about driving. More interested in city life, more online interactions, fewer entry level jobs for school age. Bicycles are also an option. Living in a dorm or within bus ride from college is also an option.
This translates into bigger cars for parents - and if you look at the traffic, suv seem the dominant type on the road...

triplemultiplex

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 30, 2023, 10:23:40 PM
How many people see others walk away from their car at a gas pump to go inside the store to shop?

Oh, the scum of the Earth at a busy station.  See this basically every trip Up North I take; an empty SUV with a giant trailer full of stupid ATV's blocking an entire lane at a busy-ass Twik Trip.
I will ALWAYS repark my vehicle after fueling if the place is even remotely busy.  It's common courtesy!!
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs. 

Quote from: Chris on January 31, 2023, 11:54:35 AM
I can confirm this is also a thing in Europe. The average new car buyer is nearly 60 years old and they prefer higher seating. So there is a plethora of SUVs and crossovers, but the compact and sub-compact segment has dwindled. And small cars were traditionally very popular in Europe. Many carmakers have stopped selling city cars and the subcompact segment has shot up in price dramatically.

This phenomenon was obvious in Holland when I worked at Schiphol Airport off-and-on from 1999 until 2003. The first time, most of the folks in the Amsterdam metro were driving smaller cars that were approaching 30 years old (many of them diesel Mercedes-Benz).  It was amusing to watch them drive off to the Mediterranean for Summer holiday towing a small cargo trailer with these cars (we all know people who do this here in the States, but that is still a curiosity here).  By 2003, it seemed like the majority of folks were then driving large sedans (many of them again Mercedes-Benz, and I didn't pay much attention to the fueling as they were no longer belching diesel fumes).

In this case, I didn't get the impression that this switchover was going to drive the automakers to dropping smaller cars from their lineup.  In fact, the opposite seemed true as we were seeing automakers like Toyota roll out the ill-fated Scion label.  I've seen the market here flip back-and-forth many times between small cars and bigger cars/trucks.  But the demise of smaller cars at a time where money is tight for many folks (worldwide) is a big concern.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 31, 2023, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 30, 2023, 11:07:01 PM
Worth noting, I seem to be something of an enthusiast for purchasing Sub-Compact and Compact cars.  Both market segments are dying which for me is an even larger concern than anything related to EVs. 

Quote from: Chris on January 31, 2023, 11:54:35 AM
I can confirm this is also a thing in Europe. The average new car buyer is nearly 60 years old and they prefer higher seating. So there is a plethora of SUVs and crossovers, but the compact and sub-compact segment has dwindled. And small cars were traditionally very popular in Europe. Many carmakers have stopped selling city cars and the subcompact segment has shot up in price dramatically.

This phenomenon was obvious in Holland when I worked at Schiphol Airport off-and-on from 1999 until 2003. The first time, most of the folks in the Amsterdam metro were driving smaller cars that were approaching 30 years old (many of them diesel Mercedes-Benz).  It was amusing to watch them drive off to the Mediterranean for Summer holiday towing a small cargo trailer with these cars (we all know people who do this here in the States, but that is still a curiosity here).  By 2003, it seemed like the majority of folks were then driving large sedans (many of them again Mercedes-Benz, and I didn't pay much attention to the fueling as they were no longer belching diesel fumes).

In this case, I didn't get the impression that this switchover was going to drive the automakers to dropping smaller cars from their lineup.  In fact, the opposite seemed true as we were seeing automakers like Toyota roll out the ill-fated Scion label.  I've seen the market here flip back-and-forth many times between small cars and bigger cars/trucks.  But the demise of smaller cars at a time where money is tight for many folks (worldwide) is a big concern.

Every time I've visited family down in Mexico in recent years, I've been envious of the plethora of basic small cars.  The Beat in particular (a rebadged older Spark) checked all the boxes for me with a manual transmission and under 10k USD price.  The two airbags don't give me the same pause it seemed to induce in other forum users when I brought this up in another thread. 



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