Plans for tolled lanes on Chicagoland expressways

Started by JoePCool14, October 14, 2022, 10:04:52 AM

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JoePCool14

Apparently there's some rumblings about adding tolled lanes to just about every non-tolled expressway in Chicagoland. From WGN News:

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/plans-to-turn-parts-of-all-chicago-expressways-into-tollways/

QuoteCHICAGO – If you're from the Chicago area, you know just how bad the gridlock can get.

Commuter Dan Smith lives in Oak Park so he travels on the Eisenhower to get to work. 

"I work about three blocks away at the Monadnock Building so I have parking to pay as well as gas,"  Brown said.

In order to ease congestion and create revenue for infrastructure improvements, the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning has some new proposals laid out in its "˜On to 2050"˜ plan update released this week.

"We've talked to a lot of people experiencing extreme congestion. Managed lanes are a way to think about how do you get to a free-flow traffic lane? Part of that has to do with pricing the lane,"  said Erin Aleman, the executive director of the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning.

CMAP is suggesting adding what are known as "managed lanes"  to several expressways. It would be a tolled express lane, where drivers would have to pay more to use it.

The proposed sections are on:


    The Eisenhower from I-88 to Racine Avenue 
    I-90 from Jane Addams to I-94 merge
    I-90/94 from the Edens Junction to Hubbard Street
    I-94 from the Tollway Spur to Lawrence Avenue
    Kennedy and Dan Ryan from Hubbard Street to 31st Street
    I-55 from DuSable Lake Shore Drive to I-80
    I-55 between I-90/94 and I-355

But some drivers, like Chicago resident Alex Hernandez, say they are not happy to hear about the idea with the cost of gas, and other goods going up.

"No, they just want to get more money out of us because they're making more lanes. Knock it off,"  Hernandez said. 

Other commuters like Smith say they would consider paying more for convenience. 

"There are times when, yes, I wouldn't mind paying a toll to get through traffic out of the Loop this time of day,"  he said. 

The current express lanes on the Kennedy would be converted under the new plan to include surge pricing during rush hour.

"A lot of these are dynamically priced as it gets busier prices could go up and shift to other modes,"  Aleman said. "We are going to need to do something different to have a better experience on our roads."  




I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather see some of these roads handed over to the tollway full-stop. That way we might see better improvements faster. The only exception could be the reversible express lanes on I-90/94. Obviously in an ideal world I'd rather see no new tolling. The problem is that Illinois finances will always be a disaster, so throwing more money into the pot won't help. Either way, I can't see most of this coming to fruition anytime soon.

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Joe The Dragon

any room for say part time shoulder running? Non tolled.
At least on some of the roads there may be room to add that / add it with small rebuilding.
Some of the roads listed can also have aux lanes added in an few places.

Now maybe if they can move the blue line underground they can use the space for new express lanes.

kphoger

The person they picked is a perfect example of pricing people off the highway and onto public transit.  I mean, if I lived in Oak Park and worked in downtown Chicago, I'd totally be taking the Green Line to work every day as it is–even without highway tolls.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

edwaleni

Quote from: JoePCool14 on October 14, 2022, 10:04:52 AM
Apparently there's some rumblings about adding tolled lanes to just about every non-tolled expressway in Chicagoland. From WGN News:

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/plans-to-turn-parts-of-all-chicago-expressways-into-tollways/

QuoteCHICAGO – If you're from the Chicago area, you know just how bad the gridlock can get.

Commuter Dan Smith lives in Oak Park so he travels on the Eisenhower to get to work. 

"I work about three blocks away at the Monadnock Building so I have parking to pay as well as gas,"  Brown said.

In order to ease congestion and create revenue for infrastructure improvements, the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning has some new proposals laid out in its "˜On to 2050"˜ plan update released this week.

"We've talked to a lot of people experiencing extreme congestion. Managed lanes are a way to think about how do you get to a free-flow traffic lane? Part of that has to do with pricing the lane,"  said Erin Aleman, the executive director of the Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning.

CMAP is suggesting adding what are known as "managed lanes"  to several expressways. It would be a tolled express lane, where drivers would have to pay more to use it.

The proposed sections are on:


    The Eisenhower from I-88 to Racine Avenue 
    I-90 from Jane Addams to I-94 merge
    I-90/94 from the Edens Junction to Hubbard Street
    I-94 from the Tollway Spur to Lawrence Avenue
    Kennedy and Dan Ryan from Hubbard Street to 31st Street
    I-55 from DuSable Lake Shore Drive to I-80
    I-55 between I-90/94 and I-355

But some drivers, like Chicago resident Alex Hernandez, say they are not happy to hear about the idea with the cost of gas, and other goods going up.

"No, they just want to get more money out of us because they're making more lanes. Knock it off,"  Hernandez said. 

Other commuters like Smith say they would consider paying more for convenience. 

"There are times when, yes, I wouldn't mind paying a toll to get through traffic out of the Loop this time of day,"  he said. 

The current express lanes on the Kennedy would be converted under the new plan to include surge pricing during rush hour.

"A lot of these are dynamically priced as it gets busier prices could go up and shift to other modes,"  Aleman said. "We are going to need to do something different to have a better experience on our roads."  




I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather see some of these roads handed over to the tollway full-stop. That way we might see better improvements faster. The only exception could be the reversible express lanes on I-90/94. Obviously in an ideal world I'd rather see no new tolling. The problem is that Illinois finances will always be a disaster, so throwing more money into the pot won't help. Either way, I can't see most of this coming to fruition anytime soon.

Everyone's case is different, but anyone living in Oak Park and working in the Monadock Building should be able to use public transit. Just the shift to transit should easily save him parking and gas money every month.

What this gentleman wants (and many American's) is a cheaper cost of living in proximity to higher inner city wages. Unfortunately due to taxes, insurance and crime, people do not want to live in the inner city close to their employers.

Having been a Chicago suburbanite who worked in the Loop I tried both Metra and driving to work. When I tired of taking 2 hours out of my day simply to get to work and back, I seriously researched living downtown to recover those 2 hours.

All things considered it was a loss. Housing prices, insurance prices, taxes, were so high, that I would essentially have to give up a personal auto and rely solely on the CTA to come close to breaking even.

I looked at it the other way, trying to locate employment in the suburbs that provided the same level of pay, but didn't require 2 hours of commute to reach it.  What I found was that unless you were an executive, pay for middle management outside the city was 20-30% below the Loop in many cases. What I found was that reaching a suburb that came the closest to the Loop in pay would require me to move to that suburb and buy a more expensive house. But I would have my time back. Cheaper than living downtown, more expensive than commuting, but I get my time back.

How much is ones time worth?

There are people who live in Naperville but drive to Morton Grove because their company relocated there. Are they going to move to Morton Grove just to be close to the HQ. Not likely,

There are people who live in Lockport, but drive to Crystal Lake because they didn't want to change their kids schools.

I know some people who commute from Beecher or Manteno just to work on Chicago's near North Side. They commute 2.5 hours each way and when I ask them if it is worth it, they say emphatically, YES.

So what Illinois is doing is implementing a tax to those who choose not to live close to their employment. This then allows them to raise prices on transit.


kphoger

Heck, I once rode next to people who were commuting to Chicago from Mendota on Amtrak.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 11:19:41 AM
The person they picked is a perfect example of pricing people off the highway and onto public transit.  I mean, if I lived in Oak Park and worked in downtown Chicago, I'd totally be taking the Green Line to work every day as it is–even without highway tolls.

Or the Blue Line, which has a stop literally right outside his building. If he doesn't live within walking distance of any of the Oak Park Blue Line stations, there's a parking lot as Des Plaines Ave.
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kphoger

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 14, 2022, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 11:19:41 AM
The person they picked is a perfect example of pricing people off the highway and onto public transit.  I mean, if I lived in Oak Park and worked in downtown Chicago, I'd totally be taking the Green Line to work every day as it is–even without highway tolls.

Or the Blue Line, which has a stop literally right outside his building. If he doesn't live within walking distance of any of the Oak Park Blue Line stations, there's a parking lot as Des Plaines Ave.

Aw geez, I thought he'd said he worked three blocks away from the Monadnock Building.  Oops.

At any rate, it would depend where in Oak Park he lives.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 12:08:07 PM
Heck, I once rode next to people who were commuting to Chicago from Mendota on Amtrak.

Very typical distance in the Northeast corridor between cities.  Shorter distances are common also, especially if someone is familiar with Amtrak but not NJ Transit, for example, or just wants a faster ride and they're getting reimbursed.

Henry

I'm beginning to believe that the current express lanes on I-90/I-94 are targeted for conversion to toll lanes (with the local ones remaining free, of course). At least the ROW is so wide that there's really no need to add more than what's already there, so just do the conversion and it's all good.
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kphoger

Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 14, 2022, 01:10:58 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 12:08:07 PM
Heck, I once rode next to people who were commuting to Chicago from Mendota on Amtrak.

Very typical distance in the Northeast corridor between cities.  Shorter distances are common also, especially if someone is familiar with Amtrak but not NJ Transit, for example, or just wants a faster ride and they're getting reimbursed.

But not nearly the same timetable frequency.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

3467

To kphogers point the change in office work to hybrid or remote pretty much makes all the Illinois funded AMTRAK trains commuter lines.
According to news report traffic CMAP says volumes are back to pre covid. I say news because I couldn't find the report. Mass transit is up CTA is about 900000 and Metra 141000. The still low mass transit explains the full expressways verses a downtown only half full.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Henry on October 14, 2022, 01:11:35 PM
I'm beginning to believe that the current express lanes on I-90/I-94 are targeted for conversion to toll lanes (with the local ones remaining free, of course). At least the ROW is so wide that there's really no need to add more than what's already there, so just do the conversion and it's all good.
That's they're doing according to this quote

QuoteThe current express lanes on the Kennedy would be converted under the new plan to include surge pricing during rush hour.

Maybe if they'd add a GP lane each way and twin the express lanes so there's four of them where possible I could get behind it but not simply converting it to a tolled lane. That's just will suck IMO.

Rick Powell

Quote from: JoePCool14 on October 14, 2022, 10:04:52 AM
Apparently there's some rumblings about adding tolled lanes to just about every non-tolled expressway in Chicagoland. From WGN News:

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/plans-to-turn-parts-of-all-chicago-expressways-into-tollways/

The "rumblings" have been around for a long while and the discussion keeps changing on what will be included, but there are two approved studies that add managed toll lanes to the Chicagoland expressway system.

I-55: https://idot.illinois.gov/projects/i55-managed-lane
I-290: https://www.eisenhowerexpressway.com/

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 14, 2022, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 14, 2022, 11:19:41 AM
The person they picked is a perfect example of pricing people off the highway and onto public transit.  I mean, if I lived in Oak Park and worked in downtown Chicago, I'd totally be taking the Green Line to work every day as it is–even without highway tolls.

Or the Blue Line, which has a stop literally right outside his building. If he doesn't live within walking distance of any of the Oak Park Blue Line stations, there's a parking lot as Des Plaines Ave.

Aw geez, I thought he'd said he worked three blocks away from the Monadnock Building.  Oops.

At any rate, it would depend where in Oak Park he lives.

I read it as he worked as the Monadnock building and he was three blocks away from there at the time of the interview.
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Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

kphoger

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 15, 2022, 08:28:17 AM
I read it as he worked as the Monadnock building and he was three blocks away from there at the time of the interview.

Yes.  I had just misread it, plain and simple.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Rick Powell

Quote from: 3467 on October 14, 2022, 01:22:27 PM
To kphogers point the change in office work to hybrid or remote pretty much makes all the Illinois funded AMTRAK trains commuter lines.
The problem is that Amtrak has sort of a non-compete agreement with Metra. It's hard to get an Amtrak slot into Union Station during normal inbound and outbound commute times so most Amtrak trains are arriving mid-morning at the earliest. And unless the rules have changed, they are not supposed to sell tickets from the suburban stations to Union Station (although I was able to do that from Joliet once).

kphoger

Quote from: Rick Powell on October 17, 2022, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 3467 on October 14, 2022, 01:22:27 PM
To kphogers point the change in office work to hybrid or remote pretty much makes all the Illinois funded AMTRAK trains commuter lines.

The problem is that Amtrak has sort of a non-compete agreement with Metra. It's hard to get an Amtrak slot into Union Station during normal inbound and outbound commute times so most Amtrak trains are arriving mid-morning at the earliest. And unless the rules have changed, they are not supposed to sell tickets from the suburban stations to Union Station (although I was able to do that from Joliet once).

It's strange that those two facts are both true, isn't it?  Commuters from Mendota can't exactly take Metra anyway...

FYI, according to the most recent pre-COVID timetables:

1.  Amtrak tickets between Joliet and Chicago are available on Lincoln Service trains but not on Texas Eagle trains.  Metra HC trains to/from Chicago Union, RI trains to/from La Salle.

2.  Tickets between Naperville and Chicago are available on Illinois Zephyr (both directions) and Carl Sandburg (outbound only) trains but no others–and only in conjunction with a connecting itinerary via Chicago Union.  Metra BNSF trains to/from Chicago Union.

3.  Tickets between Chicago and Homewood are available only in conjunction with a connecting itinerary via Chicago Union, and not at all on inbound Illini trains.  Metra Electric trains to/from Randolph.

4.  Tickets between Chicago and Glenview on Hiawatha trains are not restricted.  Metra MD-N trains to/from Chicago Union.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ET21

Considering this has been talked about for quite awhile locally is not surprising, see the I-55 managed lane. Kennedy express lanes seems to be the obvious test bed
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Joe The Dragon

Quote from: ET21 on October 17, 2022, 03:21:39 PM
Considering this has been talked about for quite awhile locally is not surprising, see the I-55 managed lane. Kennedy express lanes seems to be the obvious test bed
but that is not really adding more lanes.

3467

Those are the state funded trains Rick and KPH. At least 1 and 2 are so that would be like the state having a non compete against itself. Right now I don't see the Illinois Zephers times as being a problem for remote work.

kphoger

Quote from: 3467 on October 17, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
Those are the state funded trains Rick and KPH. At least 1 and 2 are so that would be like the state having a non compete against itself.

Except that, last I knew...

Lincoln Service trains do not allow Union-bound passengers to board at Summit.
Carl Sandburg trains do not allow Union-bound passengers to board at Naperville or LaGrange.
Illini trains do not allow Union-bound passengers to board at Homewood.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Rick Powell

#21
Quote from: kphoger on October 17, 2022, 11:32:50 AM
It's strange that those two facts are both true, isn't it?  Commuters from Mendota can't exactly take Metra anyway...

I may be one of a rare breed, but I live in rural LaSalle County not all that far away from Mendota and have a Ventra app and a Ventra card, and have put a lot of miles in on Metra's HC, RI, and BNSF lines, and a fair amount on ME. It is by far the cheaper option for going into the city considering the price of gas and parking, and with the half-fare pilot program now on the RI and ME lines, and usually but not always a time-saver as compared to driving in.  I occasionally ride the CTA but not near as much as I used to pre-COVID. It does require a personal vehicle to catch the train as there is not a reliable and effective transit connection out here, and the few Uber/Lyft drivers in my area usually go into the city/suburbs to seek fares instead of staying local.

Crash_It

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 14, 2022, 10:27:59 AM
any room for say part time shoulder running? Non tolled.




That's a bad idea due to the amount of 15+ year old cars always broken down on the shoulder and collision aftermaths.

JoePCool14

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on October 14, 2022, 10:27:59 AM
any room for say part time shoulder running? Non tolled.
At least on some of the roads there may be room to add that / add it with small rebuilding.
Some of the roads listed can also have aux lanes added in an few places.

Now maybe if they can move the blue line underground they can use the space for new express lanes.

I'm not a fan of that, unless it's the only viable alternative due to space constraints. With the amount of construction that would make such a lane usable, you might as well just make a full new lane. The only justifiable flex lane project I've personally seen is the Beltline in Madison. An expressway, like the Edens for example, has enough ROW to add an additional lane in each direction.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
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